Youngkin and TJ

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh goodie. Another TJ thread where people will make the same comments and end up at the same places as the other 9,000 TJ threads.

Rah

If people didn't care about it, the threads wouldn't exist and get traction.

Like it or not, TJ is a major flashpoint for parents in this area.

And every topic says the same thing.

This is an AAP subforum. You could say the same thing about nearly every AAP thread. What's your point?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/youngkin-thomas-jefferson-high-admissions/2021/11/29/168fd9c8-48b3-11ec-95dc-5f2a96e00fa3_story.html

Interesting article on the levers that Youngkin could (and could not) use to affect admissions to TJ.

One interesting thing in the article: The Washington Post apparently is unaware it is a fairytale that 25% of the class of 2025 is low income. As we all know now, this is based on free and reduced-price meals eligibility - something that is extremely gameable under the current free meals for all polcies. This is a self-reported measure and that every child can claim to be FARMS last year and this year. Prep companies are coaching parents to check yes for both of these boxes and FCPS is looking the other way since it makes them look good to be able to say 25% are FARMS.. A child that checks this box has a 40% chance of admission vs a child that does not check these boxes has a 10% chance.

Gross.

Huh.

If this is true, it would be a GREAT way for Youngkin to insert himself into the admissions process. If FCPS is doing a terrible job identifying low income students, than that’s an easy way for the state to step in and take over.

Students who are actually needy should get the low income preference. (Not anyone who checked a box!) Everyone can agree on that.

How would that work legally? What would the legal basis for him taking over be, i.e. what section of Virgina code or regulation would he use?

TJ is a Governor's School. VDOE already has a good bit of administrative power over it:
https://www.doe.virginia.gov/instruction/governors_school_programs/index.shtml

From your source:

"The Virginia Department of Education, regional governing boards, local superintendents, site or program directors, school boards, and advisory committees establish policies for the Governor's Schools. These policies are described in an administrative procedures document for each school. All Governor's Schools annually submit a current administrative procedures document to VDOE."

Here's TJ's

https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/C8LTLY77EF47/$file/R3355.pdf

What in there supports your assertion that the governor can change policy at TJ?

I'm not the person who made that assertion. Also FCPS is planning on adding a regional governing board, per today's Governance Committee Meeting:
http://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/goto?open&id=C8MQWP587D50

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/youngkin-thomas-jefferson-high-admissions/2021/11/29/168fd9c8-48b3-11ec-95dc-5f2a96e00fa3_story.html

Interesting article on the levers that Youngkin could (and could not) use to affect admissions to TJ.

One interesting thing in the article: The Washington Post apparently is unaware it is a fairytale that 25% of the class of 2025 is low income. As we all know now, this is based on free and reduced-price meals eligibility - something that is extremely gameable under the current free meals for all polcies. This is a self-reported measure and that every child can claim to be FARMS last year and this year. Prep companies are coaching parents to check yes for both of these boxes and FCPS is looking the other way since it makes them look good to be able to say 25% are FARMS.. A child that checks this box has a 40% chance of admission vs a child that does not check these boxes has a 10% chance.

Gross.

Youngkin can yell and scream and shout all he wants, but the reality is the levers of the TJ admissions process are controlled by the FCPS School Board. The opportunity to elect a new School Board will take place in November of 2023, by which point the admissions process - in whatever form it takes - will already be well underway for the TJ Class of 2028 to an extent that making changes (especially if they included a proctored exam) would threaten that class's ability to be seated on time. Recall petitions have failed. This is not Loudoun County, and the reality is that a HUGE portion of the "mama and papa bears" making a stink about TJ come from Loudoun anyway, and are centered in Ashburn, South Riding, and Brambleton.

I think most people understood it will take some time to counter the foolishness of the FCPS School Board. Voting out the current members of the School Board - the folks responsible for failing to ensure FCPS had a sound IT infrastructure, keeping kids out of schools when other districts and private schools were providing in-person education, making unnecessary changes to TJ admissions, indulging the likes of Karl Frisch and Elaine Tholen with their self-serving spending/boundary schemes, and failing to protect the PII of special education students - will be one important step in the right direction.

The "mama and papa bears" are everywhere in NoVa, even in Arlington, which is bluer than Fairfax. We've seen the incompetence and hypocrisy of School Board members up close now for the last two years, and it's eye-opening.

It's going to take a lot more astroturfing to elect a conservative board, but at least you're starting early.

Agree but also seems like the changes were a positive change for TJ by putting more emphasis on ability and less on wealthy schools where kids take a lot of prep classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/youngkin-thomas-jefferson-high-admissions/2021/11/29/168fd9c8-48b3-11ec-95dc-5f2a96e00fa3_story.html

Interesting article on the levers that Youngkin could (and could not) use to affect admissions to TJ.

One interesting thing in the article: The Washington Post apparently is unaware it is a fairytale that 25% of the class of 2025 is low income. As we all know now, this is based on free and reduced-price meals eligibility - something that is extremely gameable under the current free meals for all polcies. This is a self-reported measure and that every child can claim to be FARMS last year and this year. Prep companies are coaching parents to check yes for both of these boxes and FCPS is looking the other way since it makes them look good to be able to say 25% are FARMS.. A child that checks this box has a 40% chance of admission vs a child that does not check these boxes has a 10% chance.

Gross.

Huh.

If this is true, it would be a GREAT way for Youngkin to insert himself into the admissions process. If FCPS is doing a terrible job identifying low income students, than that’s an easy way for the state to step in and take over.

Students who are actually needy should get the low income preference. (Not anyone who checked a box!) Everyone can agree on that.

How would that work legally? What would the legal basis for him taking over be, i.e. what section of Virgina code or regulation would he use?

I don’t know the code/law. However, the TJ admissions office is aware of this issue. (I called and asked and confirmed that anyone can say yes based on how the questions are worded.)

They are knowingly being poor stewards over the process for giving “low income” students help and that’s a huge problem. There’s gotta be a way for the State can step in for fraud or gross incompetence.

In other words, you assert that he can do something without actually knowing whether or not he can do something

Who cares about FACTS? Some people FEEL like Youngkin can do something. That’s the important thing here. Doesn’t matter if it’s true.

Qarni (current head of Virginia DOE) was the driving force behind the changes last year IIRC. The FCPS school board was told to fix the admissions ASAP or risk losing state funding.

“Qarni told The Associated Press in an interview that he’s developing plans to eliminate the admissions test in a process that would take socioeconomic status into account.“

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/pta-clashes-with-education-secretary-on-admissions-changes/2020/09/10/b8e2e0f8-f378-11ea-8025-5d3489768ac8_story.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/youngkin-thomas-jefferson-high-admissions/2021/11/29/168fd9c8-48b3-11ec-95dc-5f2a96e00fa3_story.html

Interesting article on the levers that Youngkin could (and could not) use to affect admissions to TJ.

One interesting thing in the article: The Washington Post apparently is unaware it is a fairytale that 25% of the class of 2025 is low income. As we all know now, this is based on free and reduced-price meals eligibility - something that is extremely gameable under the current free meals for all polcies. This is a self-reported measure and that every child can claim to be FARMS last year and this year. Prep companies are coaching parents to check yes for both of these boxes and FCPS is looking the other way since it makes them look good to be able to say 25% are FARMS.. A child that checks this box has a 40% chance of admission vs a child that does not check these boxes has a 10% chance.

Gross.

Youngkin can yell and scream and shout all he wants, but the reality is the levers of the TJ admissions process are controlled by the FCPS School Board. The opportunity to elect a new School Board will take place in November of 2023, by which point the admissions process - in whatever form it takes - will already be well underway for the TJ Class of 2028 to an extent that making changes (especially if they included a proctored exam) would threaten that class's ability to be seated on time. Recall petitions have failed. This is not Loudoun County, and the reality is that a HUGE portion of the "mama and papa bears" making a stink about TJ come from Loudoun anyway, and are centered in Ashburn, South Riding, and Brambleton.

I think most people understood it will take some time to counter the foolishness of the FCPS School Board. Voting out the current members of the School Board - the folks responsible for failing to ensure FCPS had a sound IT infrastructure, keeping kids out of schools when other districts and private schools were providing in-person education, making unnecessary changes to TJ admissions, indulging the likes of Karl Frisch and Elaine Tholen with their self-serving spending/boundary schemes, and failing to protect the PII of special education students - will be one important step in the right direction.

The "mama and papa bears" are everywhere in NoVa, even in Arlington, which is bluer than Fairfax. We've seen the incompetence and hypocrisy of School Board members up close now for the last two years, and it's eye-opening.

Ignoring for a moment your repeated unsupported talking points...

Of course those parents are everywhere. But the critical mass of them are highly concentrated in small pockets of western Fairfax and even more heavily in the areas of Loudoun that I mentioned.

As if your post is some peer-reviewed article?

TJAAG types are the biggest jerks on these forums, because all they really care about is ensuring TJ stays cool on their resumes and is something they can still bring up constantly in conversations without any guilt. That is the height of emotionalism, yet they demand exacting proof of everyone else.

Pretty much any breakdown of statistics regarding where students live who apply to TJ supports my point about the geography question. It's common knowledge among anyone with any experience at all at TJ, especially within the last decade or so.

Used to be that the center of the TJ universe was in McLean and Vienna. Now it's in Herndon. That's not a controversial statement.

[Anonymous]

Nothing will change. Sorry,.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/youngkin-thomas-jefferson-high-admissions/2021/11/29/168fd9c8-48b3-11ec-95dc-5f2a96e00fa3_story.html

Interesting article on the levers that Youngkin could (and could not) use to affect admissions to TJ.

One interesting thing in the article: The Washington Post apparently is unaware it is a fairytale that 25% of the class of 2025 is low income. As we all know now, this is based on free and reduced-price meals eligibility - something that is extremely gameable under the current free meals for all polcies. This is a self-reported measure and that every child can claim to be FARMS last year and this year. Prep companies are coaching parents to check yes for both of these boxes and FCPS is looking the other way since it makes them look good to be able to say 25% are FARMS.. A child that checks this box has a 40% chance of admission vs a child that does not check these boxes has a 10% chance.

Gross.

Huh.

If this is true, it would be a GREAT way for Youngkin to insert himself into the admissions process. If FCPS is doing a terrible job identifying low income students, than that’s an easy way for the state to step in and take over.

Students who are actually needy should get the low income preference. (Not anyone who checked a box!) Everyone can agree on that.

How would that work legally? What would the legal basis for him taking over be, i.e. what section of Virgina code or regulation would he use?

I don’t know the code/law. However, the TJ admissions office is aware of this issue. (I called and asked and confirmed that anyone can say yes based on how the questions are worded.)

They are knowingly being poor stewards over the process for giving “low income” students help and that’s a huge problem. There’s gotta be a way for the State can step in for fraud or gross incompetence.

In other words, you assert that he can do something without actually knowing whether or not he can do something

Who cares about FACTS? Some people FEEL like Youngkin can do something. That’s the important thing here. Doesn’t matter if it’s true.

Qarni (current head of Virginia DOE) was the driving force behind the changes last year IIRC. The FCPS school board was told to fix the admissions ASAP or risk losing state funding.

“Qarni told The Associated Press in an interview that he’s developing plans to eliminate the admissions test in a process that would take socioeconomic status into account.“

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/pta-clashes-with-education-secretary-on-admissions-changes/2020/09/10/b8e2e0f8-f378-11ea-8025-5d3489768ac8_story.html

That was with a board inclined to agree with the state DOE, the question is what specific mechanism the state has if the board decides not to go along.

[Anonymous]

Youngkin will have a lot of power in setting up the Regional Govenors board for TJ. FCPS has know for a long time that the way that they run TJ violets state law.

https://www.cee.org/about-us/blog/virginia-governors-schools-gifted

[Anonymous]

Just change TJ to an academy for classes not offered at the base high schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just change TJ to an academy for classes not offered at the base high schools.

That would fundamentally alter what the place is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Youngkin will have a lot of power in setting up the Regional Govenors board for TJ. FCPS has know for a long time that the way that they run TJ violets state law.

https://www.cee.org/about-us/blog/virginia-governors-schools-gifted

Representation will be proportional form the school boards sending students to TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Youngkin will have a lot of power in setting up the Regional Govenors board for TJ. FCPS has know for a long time that the way that they run TJ violets state law.

https://www.cee.org/about-us/blog/virginia-governors-schools-gifted

Representation will be proportional form the school boards sending students to TJ.

Did you see upthread where I linked to the fact that the school board has been in-process on this since March 2021? Here's the text of the SB motion:

E TJHSST Follow-on motion - Establish a Regional Governing Board:

I move to direct the superintendent to develop a plan for establishing policies and procedures for instituting a regional governing board for TJ High School for Science and Technology. The governing board shall be comprised of a proportionate representation of the school boards which send students to the school. The regional board shall be responsible for ensuring current Virginia Board of Education Regulations relative to jointly operated schools and programs are adhered to. The Superintendents plan shall be referred to the Governance Committee no later than March 2021. The Governance Committee will review the Superintendent’s proposed plan and bring its recommendation to the Fairfax County School Board for final approval prior to implementation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Youngkin will have a lot of power in setting up the Regional Govenors board for TJ. FCPS has know for a long time that the way that they run TJ violets state law.

https://www.cee.org/about-us/blog/virginia-governors-schools-gifted

Representation will be proportional form the school boards sending students to TJ.

Did you see upthread where I linked to the fact that the school board has been in-process on this since March 2021? Here's the text of the SB motion:

E TJHSST Follow-on motion - Establish a Regional Governing Board:

I move to direct the superintendent to develop a plan for establishing policies and procedures for instituting a regional governing board for TJ High School for Science and Technology. The governing board shall be comprised of a proportionate representation of the school boards which send students to the school. The regional board shall be responsible for ensuring current Virginia Board of Education Regulations relative to jointly operated schools and programs are adhered to. The Superintendents plan shall be referred to the Governance Committee no later than March 2021. The Governance Committee will review the Superintendent’s proposed plan and bring its recommendation to the Fairfax County School Board for final approval prior to implementation.

What is the status of the Regional Board?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Youngkin will have a lot of power in setting up the Regional Govenors board for TJ. FCPS has know for a long time that the way that they run TJ violets state law.

https://www.cee.org/about-us/blog/virginia-governors-schools-gifted

Representation will be proportional form the school boards sending students to TJ.

Did you see upthread where I linked to the fact that the school board has been in-process on this since March 2021? Here's the text of the SB motion:

E TJHSST Follow-on motion - Establish a Regional Governing Board:

I move to direct the superintendent to develop a plan for establishing policies and procedures for instituting a regional governing board for TJ High School for Science and Technology. The governing board shall be comprised of a proportionate representation of the school boards which send students to the school. The regional board shall be responsible for ensuring current Virginia Board of Education Regulations relative to jointly operated schools and programs are adhered to. The Superintendents plan shall be referred to the Governance Committee no later than March 2021. The Governance Committee will review the Superintendent’s proposed plan and bring its recommendation to the Fairfax County School Board for final approval prior to implementation.

What is the status of the Regional Board?

There is none at the moment. Even if there is one, it will effectively be controlled by the FCPS board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just change TJ to an academy for classes not offered at the base high schools.

That would fundamentally alter what the place is.

good? b