Why is Blake Lively so overrated?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have to say I find Blake Lively's complaint about the dancing scene really odd. She previously has done at least one raunchy sex scene in The Town where she and Ben Affleck were acting out vigorous sex. And now she is offended by dancing and staring romantically? It makes very little sense. This is not intended as a commentary about Ben Affleck but rather about her experience in romantic scenes.

I mean…that’s kind of what consent is all about. You might agree to something with one person but not another, you might agree to something when younger but not 15 years later, you might agree to something when single but not when married, you might agree to something when you feel safe and respected and comfortable but not when you feel unsafe or disrespected or uncomfortable.

they are not on a date!!! They are acting out a scene of two people falling in love while dancing, which to any reasonable mind could include kissing. She consented when she took the role.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tend to think it's normal for them to drift in and out of character during scenes where they know the audio will be replaced by music in the final cut. Lively wanted to talk because she thought it would look more romantic onscreen and the audience would wonder what they were saying. That's fine. Also fine to do it the other way. Adding kissing and touching to a slow dancing is also within the realm of appropriate ways to stage the scene, even if the script originally didn't include those things.

As someone who had supported Lively in the past, it's just hard to argue she's not being completely disingenuous here. In fact if it were reversed (with him arguing that talking was more romantic and saying he and his wife would stay up talking for hours, and it's more than cute, and talking about Blake's nose) I'm pretty sure she would categorize those things in her complaint as inappropriate harassment.

She'd better hope this was his strongest evidence and the rest is less compelling.

I dont think she wanted to talk because she thought it was more romantic, she was using that as an excuse to try to get him to stop kissing her and nuzzling her neck and whatnot. To instead look like they were talking….so he would be occupied differently and back off the intimacy that was making her uncomfortable.

No, that’s not right. She was clearly trying to direct the scene from the beginning. She wanted them to talk and he thought that this would be a non-verbal scene since they weren’t going to have audio and it was going to be slow dancing.

He allowed it to be an open question. If you listen to them talking during the first of the three takes, she's advocating for them to be talking and he's not shutting her down. He doesn't say "I don't want them talking" or "I want to do the take without talking." In fact he kind of nods like he's listening to her and encouraging her (or maybe he's just doing that in character, but that's still encouragement because if he doesn't want the characters talking then why would he have his character acting engaged in the conversation). She says something about how of course they'd be talking because it would be weird to just stare into someone's eyes for minutes at a time. And then he kind of says that he and his wife do that, and she's like "really??"

But at no point does he say, as the director of the movie, "No my vision for this scene is that they aren't talking, just looking at each other and dancing." As a result I don't think she's "trying to direct" the scene. I think she's having a conversation with her costar about what their characters would be doing at this moment in the story. Baldoni isn't directing the scene either. No one is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the funniest details about this whole thing is that the line is “it smells good.”

This is what Justin clearly says on tape. If I recall from her claims, she’s not even trying to say he said anything different. If she is, she’s blatantly lying, but I feel like she reported him saying it smells good. (Which is what he said.)

I can’t imagine anyone trying to seduce another person or be remotely sexual with the phrase “It smells good.” You would say you smell good.

Just another reason why this whole thing is so utterly dumb.

She said he dragged his lips along her neck and said, "It smells so good." (emphasis added). Which is a much creepier way of describing what happened, which was: Him: "Sorry for my beard." Her: "Sorry for my body makeup." Him: Nonchalantly: "It smells good."

To add to this, regarding his beard, she could have said, "It's not scratchy," and it would have had the same implication. Yet, if she had said, "It feels so good," in response to him apologizing for his beard, that would be creepy.

The details matter, and the attorneys know that. I think they didn't know it was on tape and are just doubling down because what else are they going to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tend to think it's normal for them to drift in and out of character during scenes where they know the audio will be replaced by music in the final cut. Lively wanted to talk because she thought it would look more romantic onscreen and the audience would wonder what they were saying. That's fine. Also fine to do it the other way. Adding kissing and touching to a slow dancing is also within the realm of appropriate ways to stage the scene, even if the script originally didn't include those things.

As someone who had supported Lively in the past, it's just hard to argue she's not being completely disingenuous here. In fact if it were reversed (with him arguing that talking was more romantic and saying he and his wife would stay up talking for hours, and it's more than cute, and talking about Blake's nose) I'm pretty sure she would categorize those things in her complaint as inappropriate harassment.

She'd better hope this was his strongest evidence and the rest is less compelling.

I dont think she wanted to talk because she thought it was more romantic, she was using that as an excuse to try to get him to stop kissing her and nuzzling her neck and whatnot. To instead look like they were talking….so he would be occupied differently and back off the intimacy that was making her uncomfortable.

No, that’s not right. She was clearly trying to direct the scene from the beginning. She wanted them to talk and he thought that this would be a non-verbal scene since they weren’t going to have audio and it was going to be slow dancing.

He allowed it to be an open question. If you listen to them talking during the first of the three takes, she's advocating for them to be talking and he's not shutting her down. He doesn't say "I don't want them talking" or "I want to do the take without talking." In fact he kind of nods like he's listening to her and encouraging her (or maybe he's just doing that in character, but that's still encouragement because if he doesn't want the characters talking then why would he have his character acting engaged in the conversation). She says something about how of course they'd be talking because it would be weird to just stare into someone's eyes for minutes at a time. And then he kind of says that he and his wife do that, and she's like "really??"

But at no point does he say, as the director of the movie, "No my vision for this scene is that they aren't talking, just looking at each other and dancing." As a result I don't think she's "trying to direct" the scene. I think she's having a conversation with her costar about what their characters would be doing at this moment in the story. Baldoni isn't directing the scene either. No one is.

Well according to him that Heath guy was there giving direction. You can hear people saying things like, "now lean your heads together."

[Anonymous]

The debate they are having in this scene is actually pretty classic in terms of how men conceptualize "falling in love" versus how women conceptualize it. The script just says they are slow dancing and "in their own world." Baldoni says the scene is about them falling in love.

He's focusing on the physical aspects. He's performing lust -- his character is kissing her neck, her ear, her arm. He's turned on by her. He's trying to create build up to them kissing on the lips and, eventually, having sex. And he doesn't think they would be talking, he thinks they'd just be looking into each other's eyes, connecting without words.

But Lively is focusing more on the mental and emotional aspects of falling in love. She is imagining that the characters would be talking, engaging, learning things about each other and falling in love with each other in an intellectual, emotional way, not just physically. Obviously they are physically close because they dancing together, and she's not saying they aren't making eye contact or touching at all. But to her mind, "falling in love" is as much, if not more, about the brain as about the body.

This is pretty classic if you have read any literature on how women and men describe love and even how the differ in sexual arousal.

He said he wanted to make a movie with "the female gaze." Well as a woman, I get what Lively is saying there and agree with her that two people talking and getting to know each other is more how I think about "falling in love" than just staring silently into one another's eyes.

[Anonymous]

At this point, the only question I have is who is behind Blake’s absolutely horrible response to the released footage. Perhaps settlement discussions are ongoing and his team is releasing footage as leverage? She needs to put this behind her as quickly as possible and then have Ryan produce/direct a film for her and hope people forget this ever happened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the funniest details about this whole thing is that the line is “it smells good.”

This is what Justin clearly says on tape. If I recall from her claims, she’s not even trying to say he said anything different. If she is, she’s blatantly lying, but I feel like she reported him saying it smells good. (Which is what he said.)

I can’t imagine anyone trying to seduce another person or be remotely sexual with the phrase “It smells good.” You would say you smell good.

Just another reason why this whole thing is so utterly dumb.

She said he dragged his lips along her neck and said, "It smells so good." (emphasis added). Which is a much creepier way of describing what happened, which was: Him: "Sorry for my beard." Her: "Sorry for my body makeup." Him: Nonchalantly: "It smells good."

To add to this, regarding his beard, she could have said, "It's not scratchy," and it would have had the same implication. Yet, if she had said, "It feels so good," in response to him apologizing for his beard, that would be creepy.

The details matter, and the attorneys know that. I think they didn't know it was on tape and are just doubling down because what else are they going to do.

I disagree that he says "it smells good" nonchalantly. It happens as she describes in her complaint -- he says it as he's nuzzling her face/neck/arm and his tone is not friendly, it's kind of seductive. He does not say it while looking at her and the way he says it sounds like a come on to me.

Also, since details do matter, I think when he mentioned his beard what he actually says is "I'm probably getting my beard all over you." I think his beard is at least partially makeup -- stippling applied to fill it in and give a very specific unshaven look that might be hard to achieve in a movie naturally (because a beard is always growing, so it would be easier for him to just be clean shaven and have makeup apply "a beard" each time so it looks consistent). She then replies that she's probably getting self-tanner all over him -- like him, she is also covered in makeup to make her look a certain way. They are talking about the artifice of movie making, not innate qualities about their bodies.

I think that's why "it smells good" was jarring. Just as he is not personally responsible for the bits of fake beard that he might be getting on her in the scene, she is not personally responsible for how her body makeup smells. Someone in the makeup trailer applied both. But "it smells good" personalizes it in a way that is not how she intended her comment. She's not worried her body make up smells gross, and even if it did, that wouldn't be her fault or problem really.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tend to think it's normal for them to drift in and out of character during scenes where they know the audio will be replaced by music in the final cut. Lively wanted to talk because she thought it would look more romantic onscreen and the audience would wonder what they were saying. That's fine. Also fine to do it the other way. Adding kissing and touching to a slow dancing is also within the realm of appropriate ways to stage the scene, even if the script originally didn't include those things.

As someone who had supported Lively in the past, it's just hard to argue she's not being completely disingenuous here. In fact if it were reversed (with him arguing that talking was more romantic and saying he and his wife would stay up talking for hours, and it's more than cute, and talking about Blake's nose) I'm pretty sure she would categorize those things in her complaint as inappropriate harassment.

She'd better hope this was his strongest evidence and the rest is less compelling.

I dont think she wanted to talk because she thought it was more romantic, she was using that as an excuse to try to get him to stop kissing her and nuzzling her neck and whatnot. To instead look like they were talking….so he would be occupied differently and back off the intimacy that was making her uncomfortable.

No, that’s not right. She was clearly trying to direct the scene from the beginning. She wanted them to talk and he thought that this would be a non-verbal scene since they weren’t going to have audio and it was going to be slow dancing.

He allowed it to be an open question. If you listen to them talking during the first of the three takes, she's advocating for them to be talking and he's not shutting her down. He doesn't say "I don't want them talking" or "I want to do the take without talking." In fact he kind of nods like he's listening to her and encouraging her (or maybe he's just doing that in character, but that's still encouragement because if he doesn't want the characters talking then why would he have his character acting engaged in the conversation). She says something about how of course they'd be talking because it would be weird to just stare into someone's eyes for minutes at a time. And then he kind of says that he and his wife do that, and she's like "really??"

But at no point does he say, as the director of the movie, "No my vision for this scene is that they aren't talking, just looking at each other and dancing." As a result I don't think she's "trying to direct" the scene. I think she's having a conversation with her costar about what their characters would be doing at this moment in the story. Baldoni isn't directing the scene either. No one is.

Well according to him that Heath guy was there giving direction. You can hear people saying things like, "now lean your heads together."

That makes sense. I did find it weird that Blake’’s complaint is written as if it’s only the two of them on the set.

[Anonymous]

Don’t feed the troll, I think we all know who that is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tend to think it's normal for them to drift in and out of character during scenes where they know the audio will be replaced by music in the final cut. Lively wanted to talk because she thought it would look more romantic onscreen and the audience would wonder what they were saying. That's fine. Also fine to do it the other way. Adding kissing and touching to a slow dancing is also within the realm of appropriate ways to stage the scene, even if the script originally didn't include those things.

As someone who had supported Lively in the past, it's just hard to argue she's not being completely disingenuous here. In fact if it were reversed (with him arguing that talking was more romantic and saying he and his wife would stay up talking for hours, and it's more than cute, and talking about Blake's nose) I'm pretty sure she would categorize those things in her complaint as inappropriate harassment.

She'd better hope this was his strongest evidence and the rest is less compelling.

I dont think she wanted to talk because she thought it was more romantic, she was using that as an excuse to try to get him to stop kissing her and nuzzling her neck and whatnot. To instead look like they were talking….so he would be occupied differently and back off the intimacy that was making her uncomfortable.

But she stated several times her reasoning was romance. Part of establishing sexual harassment is making it known the conduct is unwelcome. Kissing during slow dance is an artistic decision and so is saying it's more romantic to talk. I know it's hard to speak up but people can't be expected to read her mind.

Is it hard for her to speak up though? I see no evidence of that. There are other scenes all over of her clearly speaking up and directing this movie. Kudos to her as a woman for adding more female directing… But I just don’t understand why she was so confident in every aspect of this film and then in this scene, she was too nervous to just say, can we reset, can we take a beat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At this point, the only question I have is who is behind Blake’s absolutely horrible response to the released footage. Perhaps settlement discussions are ongoing and his team is releasing footage as leverage? She needs to put this behind her as quickly as possible and then have Ryan produce/direct a film for her and hope people forget this ever happened.

Her and her husband are uneducated bozos drunk on power. They thought he would fold. They didn’t expect him to fight back and come with receipts. Now they are scrambling because this is totally backfiring into their faces.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tend to think it's normal for them to drift in and out of character during scenes where they know the audio will be replaced by music in the final cut. Lively wanted to talk because she thought it would look more romantic onscreen and the audience would wonder what they were saying. That's fine. Also fine to do it the other way. Adding kissing and touching to a slow dancing is also within the realm of appropriate ways to stage the scene, even if the script originally didn't include those things.

As someone who had supported Lively in the past, it's just hard to argue she's not being completely disingenuous here. In fact if it were reversed (with him arguing that talking was more romantic and saying he and his wife would stay up talking for hours, and it's more than cute, and talking about Blake's nose) I'm pretty sure she would categorize those things in her complaint as inappropriate harassment.

She'd better hope this was his strongest evidence and the rest is less compelling.

I dont think she wanted to talk because she thought it was more romantic, she was using that as an excuse to try to get him to stop kissing her and nuzzling her neck and whatnot. To instead look like they were talking….so he would be occupied differently and back off the intimacy that was making her uncomfortable.

No, that’s not right. She was clearly trying to direct the scene from the beginning. She wanted them to talk and he thought that this would be a non-verbal scene since they weren’t going to have audio and it was going to be slow dancing.

He allowed it to be an open question. If you listen to them talking during the first of the three takes, she's advocating for them to be talking and he's not shutting her down. He doesn't say "I don't want them talking" or "I want to do the take without talking." In fact he kind of nods like he's listening to her and encouraging her (or maybe he's just doing that in character, but that's still encouragement because if he doesn't want the characters talking then why would he have his character acting engaged in the conversation). She says something about how of course they'd be talking because it would be weird to just stare into someone's eyes for minutes at a time. And then he kind of says that he and his wife do that, and she's like "really??"

But at no point does he say, as the director of the movie, "No my vision for this scene is that they aren't talking, just looking at each other and dancing." As a result I don't think she's "trying to direct" the scene. I think she's having a conversation with her costar about what their characters would be doing at this moment in the story. Baldoni isn't directing the scene either. No one is.

As has been stated by me and at least one other person on this thread, being an inexperienced director or not being assertive does not mean he sexually harassed her.

I feel like this is one of the only cases where people are saying the man should’ve been more commanding and taken more control as to come off not sexually harassing. I just don’t see what he could’ve done to appease her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tend to think it's normal for them to drift in and out of character during scenes where they know the audio will be replaced by music in the final cut. Lively wanted to talk because she thought it would look more romantic onscreen and the audience would wonder what they were saying. That's fine. Also fine to do it the other way. Adding kissing and touching to a slow dancing is also within the realm of appropriate ways to stage the scene, even if the script originally didn't include those things.

As someone who had supported Lively in the past, it's just hard to argue she's not being completely disingenuous here. In fact if it were reversed (with him arguing that talking was more romantic and saying he and his wife would stay up talking for hours, and it's more than cute, and talking about Blake's nose) I'm pretty sure she would categorize those things in her complaint as inappropriate harassment.

She'd better hope this was his strongest evidence and the rest is less compelling.

I dont think she wanted to talk because she thought it was more romantic, she was using that as an excuse to try to get him to stop kissing her and nuzzling her neck and whatnot. To instead look like they were talking….so he would be occupied differently and back off the intimacy that was making her uncomfortable.

No, that’s not right. She was clearly trying to direct the scene from the beginning. She wanted them to talk and he thought that this would be a non-verbal scene since they weren’t going to have audio and it was going to be slow dancing.

He allowed it to be an open question. If you listen to them talking during the first of the three takes, she's advocating for them to be talking and he's not shutting her down. He doesn't say "I don't want them talking" or "I want to do the take without talking." In fact he kind of nods like he's listening to her and encouraging her (or maybe he's just doing that in character, but that's still encouragement because if he doesn't want the characters talking then why would he have his character acting engaged in the conversation). She says something about how of course they'd be talking because it would be weird to just stare into someone's eyes for minutes at a time. And then he kind of says that he and his wife do that, and she's like "really??"

But at no point does he say, as the director of the movie, "No my vision for this scene is that they aren't talking, just looking at each other and dancing." As a result I don't think she's "trying to direct" the scene. I think she's having a conversation with her costar about what their characters would be doing at this moment in the story. Baldoni isn't directing the scene either. No one is.

Well according to him that Heath guy was there giving direction. You can hear people saying things like, "now lean your heads together."

It is not Jamie Heath. He is cofounder of the production company. It is clearly an assistant director as stated in the transcript.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the funniest details about this whole thing is that the line is “it smells good.”

This is what Justin clearly says on tape. If I recall from her claims, she’s not even trying to say he said anything different. If she is, she’s blatantly lying, but I feel like she reported him saying it smells good. (Which is what he said.)

I can’t imagine anyone trying to seduce another person or be remotely sexual with the phrase “It smells good.” You would say you smell good.

Just another reason why this whole thing is so utterly dumb.

She said he dragged his lips along her neck and said, "It smells so good." (emphasis added). Which is a much creepier way of describing what happened, which was: Him: "Sorry for my beard." Her: "Sorry for my body makeup." Him: Nonchalantly: "It smells good."

To add to this, regarding his beard, she could have said, "It's not scratchy," and it would have had the same implication. Yet, if she had said, "It feels so good," in response to him apologizing for his beard, that would be creepy.

The details matter, and the attorneys know that. I think they didn't know it was on tape and are just doubling down because what else are they going to do.

I disagree that he says "it smells good" nonchalantly. It happens as she describes in her complaint -- he says it as he's nuzzling her face/neck/arm and his tone is not friendly, it's kind of seductive. He does not say it while looking at her and the way he says it sounds like a come on to me.

Also, since details do matter, I think when he mentioned his beard what he actually says is "I'm probably getting my beard all over you." I think his beard is at least partially makeup -- stippling applied to fill it in and give a very specific unshaven look that might be hard to achieve in a movie naturally (because a beard is always growing, so it would be easier for him to just be clean shaven and have makeup apply "a beard" each time so it looks consistent). She then replies that she's probably getting self-tanner all over him -- like him, she is also covered in makeup to make her look a certain way. They are talking about the artifice of movie making, not innate qualities about their bodies.

I think that's why "it smells good" was jarring. Just as he is not personally responsible for the bits of fake beard that he might be getting on her in the scene, she is not personally responsible for how her body makeup smells. Someone in the makeup trailer applied both. But "it smells good" personalizes it in a way that is not how she intended her comment. She's not worried her body make up smells gross, and even if it did, that wouldn't be her fault or problem really.

Well she’s the one insisting that they keep talking. I think both are perhaps missing each other and not responding to the other’s cues. Which is fine. But only one claimed sexual harassment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the funniest details about this whole thing is that the line is “it smells good.”

This is what Justin clearly says on tape. If I recall from her claims, she’s not even trying to say he said anything different. If she is, she’s blatantly lying, but I feel like she reported him saying it smells good. (Which is what he said.)

I can’t imagine anyone trying to seduce another person or be remotely sexual with the phrase “It smells good.” You would say you smell good.

Just another reason why this whole thing is so utterly dumb.

She said he dragged his lips along her neck and said, "It smells so good." (emphasis added). Which is a much creepier way of describing what happened, which was: Him: "Sorry for my beard." Her: "Sorry for my body makeup." Him: Nonchalantly: "It smells good."

To add to this, regarding his beard, she could have said, "It's not scratchy," and it would have had the same implication. Yet, if she had said, "It feels so good," in response to him apologizing for his beard, that would be creepy.

The details matter, and the attorneys know that. I think they didn't know it was on tape and are just doubling down because what else are they going to do.

I disagree that he says "it smells good" nonchalantly. It happens as she describes in her complaint -- he says it as he's nuzzling her face/neck/arm and his tone is not friendly, it's kind of seductive. He does not say it while looking at her and the way he says it sounds like a come on to me.

Also, since details do matter, I think when he mentioned his beard what he actually says is "I'm probably getting my beard all over you." I think his beard is at least partially makeup -- stippling applied to fill it in and give a very specific unshaven look that might be hard to achieve in a movie naturally (because a beard is always growing, so it would be easier for him to just be clean shaven and have makeup apply "a beard" each time so it looks consistent). She then replies that she's probably getting self-tanner all over him -- like him, she is also covered in makeup to make her look a certain way. They are talking about the artifice of movie making, not innate qualities about their bodies.

I think that's why "it smells good" was jarring. Just as he is not personally responsible for the bits of fake beard that he might be getting on her in the scene, she is not personally responsible for how her body makeup smells. Someone in the makeup trailer applied both. But "it smells good" personalizes it in a way that is not how she intended her comment. She's not worried her body make up smells gross, and even if it did, that wouldn't be her fault or problem really.

Happy to have a good faith discussion if you’re actually watching the tape and listening to the audio. It’s clearly you haven’t done that.