Wall Street Journal on rampant growth in percentage of college students with “disabilities”

[Anonymous]

So, as a parent of two SN kids, who don't get any extra time accommodations, or any accommodation apart from a reminder to submit homework, I am going to argue that if college is that difficult for your kid, then your college student, SN or not should not be applying to Harvard, etc..So, when your kid becomes a surgeon, is he/she going to operate on me for 10 hours instead of 4? Honestly, I don't want my SN or your SN kid defending me in court or being my Doctor, and if your kid needed extra time or person reading for him/her, their disability is a liability in some professions. if your kid really had SN, you would know this yourself and would never even think of demanding your kid has a profession that can have tragic outcomes if that job is not performed right. This whole thread makes me think that all those pps defending the need for their kid not to disclose their SN to colleges, needing extra time, people reading for them... are in fact cheating the system. I know my kids should not be police officers, heck many professions are the last thing I would want my kids to do, for the sake of my kids and other people that would be possibly negatively affected.

[Anonymous]

One of the 'accomodations' on the Virginia SOLs was that there were kids with dyslexia or something who had an adult READ them the Reading Comprehension Test! There was a 'gifted' nonreader and nonwriter in my child's third grade class! You know. He was 'brilliant ' except that he couldn't lread or write! This went on until 8th grade. I wonder whatever happened to him. Should he become a teacher? A brain sirgeon? Have someone reading him his med school textbooks? Strange!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC had a reader and a scribe accommodation form the college board, it comes with 50% more time. This is because it takes longer to take a test with a reader and a scribe. There is a delay from when one person reads a questions and when the next person hears it. There is also a delay when the test taker tells the scribe the answer and the scribe bubbles it in, or in the case of the essay - when the scribe writes/types it out.

For those who only have 50% extra time, they are in a room with everyone less with that accommodation and they have to sit tight for the full time for each section just like in the classrooms where they have 100% of the time. That makes for a very long day.

For those of you proposing that everyone receives the extra 50%, would your DC’s be able to sit tight for that extra time, even if they did not need it in the first place?

Yes as they will be able to check their answers or do that extra question since they will have more time

You really want to subject your child to six hours of testing when four hours will do? What are the chances if DC changing a correct answer t a wrong answer thus nullifiying the one changed to the correct answer?

You guys know that for SAT math and science and the ACT tests, the more time one has, the higher the scores since these tests require speed? With more time, a kid can do the questions carefully and avoid silly mistakes. With more time, a kid can have time to do ALL the questions.

+1000. Some of the accomodations is the ability to use a calculator. How is that fair?

It is a basic calculator (four function) that is used for a calculator accommodation. I have a student who is exceptionally good in math, except for math facts. Math facts were very difficult for him to acquire and he has them but retrieval is much slower than you would expect. He also has a fairly severe form of dyslexia and the two are probably related. He needs either the calculator accommodation or extra time in order for him to show his mastery of the higher level math problems and topics. He is currently in college and is majoring in math and I predict he will go on to get his PhD.

[Anonymous]

No. The better analogy is allowing someone to take a vision test with glasses! The ability to do work quickly and correctly is what standardized tests measure (in part). Allowing someone extra time to "fix careless errors" defeats the entire purpose.

I took a vision test with glasses every year in grade-school. Why? Because the test isn't made to measure what your exact vision is. (That's way more complicated than the nurses office test). The test is made to measure if you need further intervention to correct your vision. I was already getting that intervention, so re-confirming that my vision sucked would have served nobody.

If you gave some of my fifth graders an exam without the use of a (four function) calculator you wouldn't be measuring their understanding of the content, you'd be measuring the fact that they still (after oh so much work on everyone's part) haven't developed the working memory skills to retain their multiplication facts and get so tied up in calculating them each and every time that they don't have a chance at doing higher level work without the speed afforded by a calculator.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of the 'accomodations' on the Virginia SOLs was that there were kids with dyslexia or something who had an adult READ them the Reading Comprehension Test! There was a 'gifted' nonreader and nonwriter in my child's third grade class! You know. He was 'brilliant ' except that he couldn't lread or write! This went on until 8th grade. I wonder whatever happened to him. Should he become a teacher? A brain sirgeon? Have someone reading him his med school textbooks? Strange!

People who are blind "read" with their fingers. People who are blind or dyslexic "read" with their ears. It is how they acquire language. Why is it so important to you if the information goes into the brain through the eyes instead of ears or fingers?

If you would like to educate yourself, I recommend reading Sally Shaywitz's book "Overcoming Dyslexia" and Maryann Wolf's "Proust and the Squid".

The reading SOL is a comprehension test and that can be done with a reader. Students with dyslexia often get audio and electronic text books so that they can access the material. Comprehension is not usually the issue for a person with dyslexia (although sometimes it is co-morbid).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC had a reader and a scribe accommodation form the college board, it comes with 50% more time. This is because it takes longer to take a test with a reader and a scribe. There is a delay from when one person reads a questions and when the next person hears it. There is also a delay when the test taker tells the scribe the answer and the scribe bubbles it in, or in the case of the essay - when the scribe writes/types it out.

For those who only have 50% extra time, they are in a room with everyone less with that accommodation and they have to sit tight for the full time for each section just like in the classrooms where they have 100% of the time. That makes for a very long day.

For those of you proposing that everyone receives the extra 50%, would your DC’s be able to sit tight for that extra time, even if they did not need it in the first place?

Yes as they will be able to check their answers or do that extra question since they will have more time

You really want to subject your child to six hours of testing when four hours will do? What are the chances if DC changing a correct answer t a wrong answer thus nullifiying the one changed to the correct answer?

You guys know that for SAT math and science and the ACT tests, the more time one has, the higher the scores since these tests require speed? With more time, a kid can do the questions carefully and avoid silly mistakes. With more time, a kid can have time to do ALL the questions.

+1000. Some of the accomodations is the ability to use a calculator. How is that fair?

It is a basic calculator (four function) that is used for a calculator accommodation. I have a student who is exceptionally good in math, except for math facts. Math facts were very difficult for him to acquire and he has them but retrieval is much slower than you would expect. He also has a fairly severe form of dyslexia and the two are probably related. He needs either the calculator accommodation or extra time in order for him to show his mastery of the higher level math problems and topics. He is currently in college and is majoring in math and I predict he will go on to get his PhD.

I'm a PP who has been critical of accommodations. I am ok with someone getting extra time if the goal is to show underlying mastery of concepts. However, in that case, the better solution would seem to be to allow everyone a calculator and additional time, if you truly are only interested in measuring their mastery of the materials.

Also, among mathematicians, the notion of being brilliant at higher-level math but terrible at math facts is actually so common as to be a bit of a stereotype. So I'm not sure why we need to change the system now? There were likely many brilliant mathematicians who got poor grades on elementary school pop quizzes, and I don't think it ruined their trajectories. For some reason, now kids aren't allowed to fail along any vector. Maybe that's a change in values; maybe it's because we've made every component too high stakes. Not sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
No. The better analogy is allowing someone to take a vision test with glasses! The ability to do work quickly and correctly is what standardized tests measure (in part). Allowing someone extra time to "fix careless errors" defeats the entire purpose.

I took a vision test with glasses every year in grade-school. Why? Because the test isn't made to measure what your exact vision is. (That's way more complicated than the nurses office test). The test is made to measure if you need further intervention to correct your vision. I was already getting that intervention, so re-confirming that my vision sucked would have served nobody.

If you gave some of my fifth graders an exam without the use of a (four function) calculator you wouldn't be measuring their understanding of the content, you'd be measuring the fact that they still (after oh so much work on everyone's part) haven't developed the working memory skills to retain their multiplication facts and get so tied up in calculating them each and every time that they don't have a chance at doing higher level work without the speed afforded by a calculator.

I think you're doing your 5th graders a lot of harm by not holding them accountable for MATH FACTS. If you're truly not testing math facts, then let everyone have the calculator. if you ARE testing math facts, then don't let anyone have a calculator, and the ones with "dyscalcula" or whatever will have an accurate result. If you feel that is unfair, then change the stakes of testing.

The eyeglasses analogy -- my eye doctor checks my uncorrected vision at every visit. Letting me use glasses to check my uncorrected vision would obviously be absurd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the 'accomodations' on the Virginia SOLs was that there were kids with dyslexia or something who had an adult READ them the Reading Comprehension Test! There was a 'gifted' nonreader and nonwriter in my child's third grade class! You know. He was 'brilliant ' except that he couldn't lread or write! This went on until 8th grade. I wonder whatever happened to him. Should he become a teacher? A brain sirgeon? Have someone reading him his med school textbooks? Strange!

People who are blind "read" with their fingers. People who are blind or dyslexic "read" with their ears. It is how they acquire language. Why is it so important to you if the information goes into the brain through the eyes instead of ears or fingers?

If you would like to educate yourself, I recommend reading Sally Shaywitz's book "Overcoming Dyslexia" and Maryann Wolf's "Proust and the Squid".

The reading SOL is a comprehension test and that can be done with a reader. Students with dyslexia often get audio and electronic text books so that they can access the material. Comprehension is not usually the issue for a person with dyslexia (although sometimes it is co-morbid).

So how should a dyslexic who can't comprehend either by hearing or reading be tested?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually don't think the extra time accommodations are a problem. I think the problem is how many parents are raising young adults to believe they are incompetent and can't make their way in the world without special accommodations. It's so hard to start life thinking there is something this wrong with you.

Actually it is raising kids to think it is okay to cheat the system and that they are entitled to....

Why is it cheating? Sad that people thing this because they are upset their kids can't compete agains kids with special needs. And now they want extra time because they are so incompetent. Sad.

I think it's pretty clear that many of us don't think these kids actually have special needs at all. If 20-25% of the kids at a very selective school have this "need," it's more common than being left-handed or blond, and just about as deserving of special treatment.

I'm near sighted. It's really common to be near sighted. Using your "logic" I shouldn't be allowed to wear glasses, because there are enough of us that it's not deserving of special treatment.

Those of us who don't need extra time on tests and assignments, don't need note takers, don't need those accommodations aren't losing out on anything. Just like people who don't need to wear glasses aren't missing out on anything by not wearing glasses.

You're failing to engage with the premise, which is that there is NO sudden 5-fold growth of disabilities necessitating extra time on tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m another poster with wretched eye sight who thinks of accommodations as analogous to eyeglasses. That said, I think time-pressured standardized tests that don’t cover material as difficult as that presented in many high schools are a poor way of evaluating/ranking kids for college.

Er..it isn’t. You have a choice to wear them or not. What if you weren’t given a choice while others who gamed the system were? Would u be happy? Would u think it is fair?

You ignored the second half of what I wrote. I don’t think speed should be what we’re testing in this context (just as I don’t think vision is what we should be testing on a reading exam). So I’d remove time pressure generally. But that’s a less profitable model ....

I think processing speed is a perfectly appropriate thing to measure for college admissions. I don't think it's the only thing that matters, but it is a legitimate metric of academic capability.

Not within these kind of parameters or wrt these kinds of tasks. In college, students can put in widely varying amounts of time on the same assignment. And what’s generally being tested isn’t speed but depth of knowledge and nuance (and/or ability to bring knowledge to bear in solving a problem or understanding a situation). Answering multiple choice questions quickly and accurately isn’t really a good measure of a student’s ability to do that kind of work.

[Anonymous]

I am an actuary. I would not be happy if the actuarial exams gave extra time to those who gamed the system. Why? Some exam are graded on a curve. I didn’t realize some of the accomodations included calculators. That is really unfair to those without extended time - a calculator with extended time means one would have lessor chance of making silly calculation mistakes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m another poster with wretched eye sight who thinks of accommodations as analogous to eyeglasses. That said, I think time-pressured standardized tests that don’t cover material as difficult as that presented in many high schools are a poor way of evaluating/ranking kids for college.

Er..it isn’t. You have a choice to wear them or not. What if you weren’t given a choice while others who gamed the system were? Would u be happy? Would u think it is fair?

You ignored the second half of what I wrote. I don’t think speed should be what we’re testing in this context (just as I don’t think vision is what we should be testing on a reading exam). So I’d remove time pressure generally. But that’s a less profitable model ....

I think processing speed is a perfectly appropriate thing to measure for college admissions. I don't think it's the only thing that matters, but it is a legitimate metric of academic capability.

Not within these kind of parameters or wrt these kinds of tasks. In college, students can put in widely varying amounts of time on the same assignment. And what’s generally being tested isn’t speed but depth of knowledge and nuance (and/or ability to bring knowledge to bear in solving a problem or understanding a situation). Answering multiple choice questions quickly and accurately isn’t really a good measure of a student’s ability to do that kind of work.

Then give everyone the same “extended” time. You can’t argue this and then argue extended time is fair. It isn’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, so, if your child attends one of these schools who accepts a lot of kids with accommodations is anyone worried about their kid pairing off with a severely ADHD kid? After reading the relationship and family relationship forums & observing married friends it seems difficult to be married to someone with severe ADHD. Parenting and chores, keeping a job - there seem to be many common issues.

I have ADHD, my husband has ADHD and both my kids have ADHD. I was diagnosed in law school back in the 90s wHen adult ADHD was not a thing and what you looked for was hyperactivity. My son in ES but it was obvious very early. My husband because he saw so much of himself in our son, and how much treatment helped him. DD would likely still be undiagnosed in MS but deep into treatment for anxiety if we did not have a strong family history and know what to look for. PP is right. Bright girls with ADHD compensate until the hit a breaking point. But compensating and constantly trying to keep things from falling through the cracks can cause a lot of anxiety. Both DD and I effectively treat anxiety with Adderall, which has the exact opposite effect in no-ADHD kids.

We are a pretty well functioning family. Boring, nerdy. No affairs. No substance abuse. Same jobs for both parents for more than a decade. House in a good school district in NOVA. Both DH and I compensate, although we compensate differently. Sometime I will show you my master family calender on google in a different color for each member of the family, with the same colors on the calender on the fridge. Did I mention ADHD makes women anxious? I think we function pretty well. I think it helps that all 4 of us understand each other, and have mutually agreed to be kind about genuine screwups in things like turning homework in. Or forgetting to email about a play date.

We teach our kids that ADHD is a medical condition. And like many medical conditions, it can be managed so that it does not interfere with your life. We feel strongly about aggressively managing the kids ADHD. And being proactive with our own. They are on medication, but they also took Strategies for Success in MS, and my HS student has an executive functioning coach, which helps a lot. DD gets one whether she wants it or not at the start of HS. At various times, both kids have done short term work with therapists. DD on anxiety. DS when we ran into internet use issues. I watch Gradebook closely. And if you have a missing assignment, I own your iPhone until it is turned in.

In an ideal world, they go to college without needing accommodations, but we choose colleges that work well with their learning needs. See also: not a huge university with big lectures. DS uses extended time in math only, because that is where he needs extended time. He has extended time on the college board, but says he only uses it on the math section. Which is fine. The scores are good. DD might or might not need them when we get there. I would love to not have to go through the hassle of applying. But I will if I need to.

I didn’t choose to have ADHD. I didn’t choose to have ADHD kids. But they are amazing and are going to go great places. And I definitely would not take the ADHD out. It’s part of who they are. They would not be them without the ADHD piece, and it is both annoying and hysterical when DD trails off in the middle of a conversation because... hey butterfly! Sigh.

I guess I chose to marry a man with ADHD. So you have me there. But I would not undo the decision. He is smart and kind and funny and a wonderful dad and has a great job and...you get the point. I feel very lucky to have married him. 20 years ago.

Maybe this isn’t what you wanted. But ADHD is what you make of it. In our family, we all have brown hair, and we all love Lord of the Rings and we all have ADHD. We all have a sense of humor about the inevitable mixups. And there is a fair amount of teasing about them.

I think you would be lucky to be one of us. But I’m partial.

Sorry, sorry. I know this thread is all about accommodations v. no accommodations crowd bashing each other, but can I hijack this thread for a second and ask a question to pp? You mention your son has an executive functioning coach. How does this work? Does he see him/her weekly, just a couple times to get him organized? How do you go about finding one?

We have someone who comes to our house for an hour a week. Helped him set up binders and an agenda. Walks DC through each class— what is coming due this week and in the future. Helps him plan his week. When she leaves, there is a list on each day of the week in the agenda: do part 1 of the Spanish project, review unit 1 for math and read 20 pages of the English novel. Practice your instrument for 30 minutes. Go to bed early before SOL. It is so helpful, because I could do this with him. But it always ends in pushback and arguments. She’s a teacher, and he listens to her. And she doesn’t do this for him. She guides him through planning, so he learns how. It gives me hope he can succeed in college, because he ispiscking up skills and doing well despite the fact I am not micromanaging the schoolwork. When he goes to college, he might be fine. Or we might need to hire an EF coach there for the first year while he adjusts. But he doesn’t need a parent.

I used Educational connections to get the first tutor and she was amazing. After 2 years, she left, and EC placed 2 real duds with us. So I gave up on them and went to Wyzant. With my zip code and executive functioning tutor, organizational tutor and ADHD tutor, I got several hits. The profile that has worked well with us is a current or former teacher in the school system with special ed. Teaching experience. I found someone great on the first try. May be beginners luck. I’m sure Wyzant is hit or miss too. Good luck,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m another poster with wretched eye sight who thinks of accommodations as analogous to eyeglasses. That said, I think time-pressured standardized tests that don’t cover material as difficult as that presented in many high schools are a poor way of evaluating/ranking kids for college.

Er..it isn’t. You have a choice to wear them or not. What if you weren’t given a choice while others who gamed the system were? Would u be happy? Would u think it is fair?

You ignored the second half of what I wrote. I don’t think speed should be what we’re testing in this context (just as I don’t think vision is what we should be testing on a reading exam). So I’d remove time pressure generally. But that’s a less profitable model ....

I think processing speed is a perfectly appropriate thing to measure for college admissions. I don't think it's the only thing that matters, but it is a legitimate metric of academic capability.

Not within these kind of parameters or wrt these kinds of tasks. In college, students can put in widely varying amounts of time on the same assignment. And what’s generally being tested isn’t speed but depth of knowledge and nuance (and/or ability to bring knowledge to bear in solving a problem or understanding a situation). Answering multiple choice questions quickly and accurately isn’t really a good measure of a student’s ability to do that kind of work.

Well, then that's the college's choice. And as long as tests are timed, processing speed is absolutely relevant. Why else would there ever be timed tests? You may disagree that processing speed is important; but the rest of the world thinks it is.

[Anonymous]

Do you use a calculator in your actuarial work? If so, why isn’t the solution that everyone gets to use a calculator on the exam (vs no one)?

Kinda like the shift from “handicapped-accessible” to “barrier-free” design.