Wall Street Journal on rampant growth in percentage of college students with “disabilities”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP with the all ADHD family. And I will add that I think ADHD is overdiagnosed in boys and underdiagnosed in girls, because girls are so much better than boys in executive functioning. Girls mask ADHD well, but the stress of masking it makes them anxious and drags them down. Boys are lagging behind girls in late ES and MS and early HS because their pre-frontal cortex develops later and we expect more from them than their brain development is ready for. But that’s just my theory.

Your post was tl;dr. If I had been given extra time I would have read it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be okay with testing accommodations if the student's test score and academic transcripts indicated that testing accomodations were used. What isn't fair is that people want both the advantage of testing accomodations and the privacy of pretending that those accomodations were not used and that their child was able to take the same exact test in the exact same conditions.

That creates stigma and an “other than” class distinction. It would be ripe for discrimination.

So, exactly what the PP said then? They want to take advantage of the accommodations because they have different nrrds, but no, they are not different.

Separate but equal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC had a reader and a scribe accommodation form the college board, it comes with 50% more time. This is because it takes longer to take a test with a reader and a scribe. There is a delay from when one person reads a questions and when the next person hears it. There is also a delay when the test taker tells the scribe the answer and the scribe bubbles it in, or in the case of the essay - when the scribe writes/types it out.

For those who only have 50% extra time, they are in a room with everyone less with that accommodation and they have to sit tight for the full time for each section just like in the classrooms where they have 100% of the time. That makes for a very long day.

For those of you proposing that everyone receives the extra 50%, would your DC’s be able to sit tight for that extra time, even if they did not need it in the first place?

Yes as they will be able to check their answers or do that extra question since they will have more time

Then the impact of extra time would be minimal in this case. So why advocate for it? A "normal" kid, checking answers doesn't yield much vs. a kid with ADHD who consistently makes careless errors and "needs" the extra time to check answers. I like the analogy of the glasses. If you give a kid with perfect eyesight glasses, they will end up with the same result as they would without the glasses.

[Anonymous]

I’m another poster with wretched eye sight who thinks of accommodations as analogous to eyeglasses. That said, I think time-pressured standardized tests that don’t cover material as difficult as that presented in many high schools are a poor way of evaluating/ranking kids for college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC had a reader and a scribe accommodation form the college board, it comes with 50% more time. This is because it takes longer to take a test with a reader and a scribe. There is a delay from when one person reads a questions and when the next person hears it. There is also a delay when the test taker tells the scribe the answer and the scribe bubbles it in, or in the case of the essay - when the scribe writes/types it out.

For those who only have 50% extra time, they are in a room with everyone less with that accommodation and they have to sit tight for the full time for each section just like in the classrooms where they have 100% of the time. That makes for a very long day.

For those of you proposing that everyone receives the extra 50%, would your DC’s be able to sit tight for that extra time, even if they did not need it in the first place?

Yes as they will be able to check their answers or do that extra question since they will have more time

You really want to subject your child to six hours of testing when four hours will do? What are the chances if DC changing a correct answer t a wrong answer thus nullifiying the one changed to the correct answer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC had a reader and a scribe accommodation form the college board, it comes with 50% more time. This is because it takes longer to take a test with a reader and a scribe. There is a delay from when one person reads a questions and when the next person hears it. There is also a delay when the test taker tells the scribe the answer and the scribe bubbles it in, or in the case of the essay - when the scribe writes/types it out.

For those who only have 50% extra time, they are in a room with everyone less with that accommodation and they have to sit tight for the full time for each section just like in the classrooms where they have 100% of the time. That makes for a very long day.

For those of you proposing that everyone receives the extra 50%, would your DC’s be able to sit tight for that extra time, even if they did not need it in the first place?

Yes as they will be able to check their answers or do that extra question since they will have more time

You really want to subject your child to six hours of testing when four hours will do? What are the chances if DC changing a correct answer t a wrong answer thus nullifiying the one changed to the correct answer?

You guys know that for SAT math and science and the ACT tests, the more time one has, the higher the scores since these tests require speed? With more time, a kid can do the questions carefully and avoid silly mistakes. With more time, a kid can have time to do ALL the questions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m another poster with wretched eye sight who thinks of accommodations as analogous to eyeglasses. That said, I think time-pressured standardized tests that don’t cover material as difficult as that presented in many high schools are a poor way of evaluating/ranking kids for college.

Er..it isn’t. You have a choice to wear them or not. What if you weren’t given a choice while others who gamed the system were? Would u be happy? Would u think it is fair?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC had a reader and a scribe accommodation form the college board, it comes with 50% more time. This is because it takes longer to take a test with a reader and a scribe. There is a delay from when one person reads a questions and when the next person hears it. There is also a delay when the test taker tells the scribe the answer and the scribe bubbles it in, or in the case of the essay - when the scribe writes/types it out.

For those who only have 50% extra time, they are in a room with everyone less with that accommodation and they have to sit tight for the full time for each section just like in the classrooms where they have 100% of the time. That makes for a very long day.

For those of you proposing that everyone receives the extra 50%, would your DC’s be able to sit tight for that extra time, even if they did not need it in the first place?

Yes as they will be able to check their answers or do that extra question since they will have more time

You really want to subject your child to six hours of testing when four hours will do? What are the chances if DC changing a correct answer t a wrong answer thus nullifiying the one changed to the correct answer?

You guys know that for SAT math and science and the ACT tests, the more time one has, the higher the scores since these tests require speed? With more time, a kid can do the questions carefully and avoid silly mistakes. With more time, a kid can have time to do ALL the questions.

+1000. Some of the accomodations is the ability to use a calculator. How is that fair?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, so, if your child attends one of these schools who accepts a lot of kids with accommodations is anyone worried about their kid pairing off with a severely ADHD kid? After reading the relationship and family relationship forums & observing married friends it seems difficult to be married to someone with severe ADHD. Parenting and chores, keeping a job - there seem to be many common issues.

I have ADHD, my husband has ADHD and both my kids have ADHD. I was diagnosed in law school back in the 90s wHen adult ADHD was not a thing and what you looked for was hyperactivity. My son in ES but it was obvious very early. My husband because he saw so much of himself in our son, and how much treatment helped him. DD would likely still be undiagnosed in MS but deep into treatment for anxiety if we did not have a strong family history and know what to look for. PP is right. Bright girls with ADHD compensate until the hit a breaking point. But compensating and constantly trying to keep things from falling through the cracks can cause a lot of anxiety. Both DD and I effectively treat anxiety with Adderall, which has the exact opposite effect in no-ADHD kids.

We are a pretty well functioning family. Boring, nerdy. No affairs. No substance abuse. Same jobs for both parents for more than a decade. House in a good school district in NOVA. Both DH and I compensate, although we compensate differently. Sometime I will show you my master family calender on google in a different color for each member of the family, with the same colors on the calender on the fridge. Did I mention ADHD makes women anxious? I think we function pretty well. I think it helps that all 4 of us understand each other, and have mutually agreed to be kind about genuine screwups in things like turning homework in. Or forgetting to email about a play date.

We teach our kids that ADHD is a medical condition. And like many medical conditions, it can be managed so that it does not interfere with your life. We feel strongly about aggressively managing the kids ADHD. And being proactive with our own. They are on medication, but they also took Strategies for Success in MS, and my HS student has an executive functioning coach, which helps a lot. DD gets one whether she wants it or not at the start of HS. At various times, both kids have done short term work with therapists. DD on anxiety. DS when we ran into internet use issues. I watch Gradebook closely. And if you have a missing assignment, I own your iPhone until it is turned in.

In an ideal world, they go to college without needing accommodations, but we choose colleges that work well with their learning needs. See also: not a huge university with big lectures. DS uses extended time in math only, because that is where he needs extended time. He has extended time on the college board, but says he only uses it on the math section. Which is fine. The scores are good. DD might or might not need them when we get there. I would love to not have to go through the hassle of applying. But I will if I need to.

I didn’t choose to have ADHD. I didn’t choose to have ADHD kids. But they are amazing and are going to go great places. And I definitely would not take the ADHD out. It’s part of who they are. They would not be them without the ADHD piece, and it is both annoying and hysterical when DD trails off in the middle of a conversation because... hey butterfly! Sigh.

I guess I chose to marry a man with ADHD. So you have me there. But I would not undo the decision. He is smart and kind and funny and a wonderful dad and has a great job and...you get the point. I feel very lucky to have married him. 20 years ago.

Maybe this isn’t what you wanted. But ADHD is what you make of it. In our family, we all have brown hair, and we all love Lord of the Rings and we all have ADHD. We all have a sense of humor about the inevitable mixups. And there is a fair amount of teasing about them.

I think you would be lucky to be one of us. But I’m partial.

Sorry, sorry. I know this thread is all about accommodations v. no accommodations crowd bashing each other, but can I hijack this thread for a second and ask a question to pp? You mention your son has an executive functioning coach. How does this work? Does he see him/her weekly, just a couple times to get him organized? How do you go about finding one?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m another poster with wretched eye sight who thinks of accommodations as analogous to eyeglasses. That said, I think time-pressured standardized tests that don’t cover material as difficult as that presented in many high schools are a poor way of evaluating/ranking kids for college.

Er..it isn’t. You have a choice to wear them or not. What if you weren’t given a choice while others who gamed the system were? Would u be happy? Would u think it is fair?

The law requires that I wear my glasses, if I want to drive. It's not much of a choice. In cavemen days, I expect that the group would have left me out for the hyenas, as I would be useless as a hunter or gatherer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m another poster with wretched eye sight who thinks of accommodations as analogous to eyeglasses. That said, I think time-pressured standardized tests that don’t cover material as difficult as that presented in many high schools are a poor way of evaluating/ranking kids for college.

Er..it isn’t. You have a choice to wear them or not. What if you weren’t given a choice while others who gamed the system were? Would u be happy? Would u think it is fair?

You ignored the second half of what I wrote. I don’t think speed should be what we’re testing in this context (just as I don’t think vision is what we should be testing on a reading exam). So I’d remove time pressure generally. But that’s a less profitable model ....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC had a reader and a scribe accommodation form the college board, it comes with 50% more time. This is because it takes longer to take a test with a reader and a scribe. There is a delay from when one person reads a questions and when the next person hears it. There is also a delay when the test taker tells the scribe the answer and the scribe bubbles it in, or in the case of the essay - when the scribe writes/types it out.

For those who only have 50% extra time, they are in a room with everyone less with that accommodation and they have to sit tight for the full time for each section just like in the classrooms where they have 100% of the time. That makes for a very long day.

For those of you proposing that everyone receives the extra 50%, would your DC’s be able to sit tight for that extra time, even if they did not need it in the first place?

Yes as they will be able to check their answers or do that extra question since they will have more time

Then the impact of extra time would be minimal in this case. So why advocate for it? A "normal" kid, checking answers doesn't yield much vs. a kid with ADHD who consistently makes careless errors and "needs" the extra time to check answers. I like the analogy of the glasses. If you give a kid with perfect eyesight glasses, they will end up with the same result as they would without the glasses.

No. The better analogy is allowing someone to take a vision test with glasses! The ability to do work quickly and correctly is what standardized tests measure (in part). Allowing someone extra time to "fix careless errors" defeats the entire purpose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m another poster with wretched eye sight who thinks of accommodations as analogous to eyeglasses. That said, I think time-pressured standardized tests that don’t cover material as difficult as that presented in many high schools are a poor way of evaluating/ranking kids for college.

Er..it isn’t. You have a choice to wear them or not. What if you weren’t given a choice while others who gamed the system were? Would u be happy? Would u think it is fair?

You ignored the second half of what I wrote. I don’t think speed should be what we’re testing in this context (just as I don’t think vision is what we should be testing on a reading exam). So I’d remove time pressure generally. But that’s a less profitable model ....

I think processing speed is a perfectly appropriate thing to measure for college admissions. I don't think it's the only thing that matters, but it is a legitimate metric of academic capability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC had a reader and a scribe accommodation form the college board, it comes with 50% more time. This is because it takes longer to take a test with a reader and a scribe. There is a delay from when one person reads a questions and when the next person hears it. There is also a delay when the test taker tells the scribe the answer and the scribe bubbles it in, or in the case of the essay - when the scribe writes/types it out.

For those who only have 50% extra time, they are in a room with everyone less with that accommodation and they have to sit tight for the full time for each section just like in the classrooms where they have 100% of the time. That makes for a very long day.

For those of you proposing that everyone receives the extra 50%, would your DC’s be able to sit tight for that extra time, even if they did not need it in the first place?

Yes as they will be able to check their answers or do that extra question since they will have more time

You really want to subject your child to six hours of testing when four hours will do? What are the chances if DC changing a correct answer t a wrong answer thus nullifiying the one changed to the correct answer?

You guys know that for SAT math and science and the ACT tests, the more time one has, the higher the scores since these tests require speed? With more time, a kid can do the questions carefully and avoid silly mistakes. With more time, a kid can have time to do ALL the questions.

+1000. Some of the accomodations is the ability to use a calculator. How is that fair?

How is it unfair?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC had a reader and a scribe accommodation form the college board, it comes with 50% more time. This is because it takes longer to take a test with a reader and a scribe. There is a delay from when one person reads a questions and when the next person hears it. There is also a delay when the test taker tells the scribe the answer and the scribe bubbles it in, or in the case of the essay - when the scribe writes/types it out.

For those who only have 50% extra time, they are in a room with everyone less with that accommodation and they have to sit tight for the full time for each section just like in the classrooms where they have 100% of the time. That makes for a very long day.

For those of you proposing that everyone receives the extra 50%, would your DC’s be able to sit tight for that extra time, even if they did not need it in the first place?

Yes as they will be able to check their answers or do that extra question since they will have more time

You really want to subject your child to six hours of testing when four hours will do? What are the chances if DC changing a correct answer t a wrong answer thus nullifiying the one changed to the correct answer?

You guys know that for SAT math and science and the ACT tests, the more time one has, the higher the scores since these tests require speed? With more time, a kid can do the questions carefully and avoid silly mistakes. With more time, a kid can have time to do ALL the questions.

+1000. Some of the accomodations is the ability to use a calculator. How is that fair?

How is it unfair?

let everyone have a calculator. what accommodation would you want then?