APS elementary planning initiative called off

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to ideas... please.

I understand the small spaces and multiple owners on Lee, but it can be done. And yes, it will cost more up front, but it costs the county and community less in the long run if the schools have some semblance of diversity and poverty is not so concentrated. Unless the regulators here stop seeking as much affordable housing as they can get in the south, and fund a smaller but valuable amount in the north, nothing will change. "Cost" is not just the funding needed to purchase the land. And, studies show that the cost to purchase commercial land in North Arlington is not that much more than south. Someone did a study of purchases over the last decade and it was shocking that in some instances land was more costly in South Arlington.

The American Legion in Clarendon is being redeveloped as entirely affordable housing. It’s a fairly big parcel about 1.25 acres.

And within walking distance of ASFS, Stratford and W-L.

Interesting. I heard that back before the initiative was put on pause, some Cherrydale parents had been proposing a new boundary for ASFS that was basically Cherrydale + Lyon Village (except the couple blocks east of Barton, ie the block where Key sits) and the mostly SFHs in the ASFS walkzone. I guess all the apartments currently in Key/ASFS zone would be sent to Key under that plan? Was that ever a real proposal or was that just a rumor?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. It’s not about building on Lee. It’s about building N of Lee, even if just on the N side. Anything below Lee won’t improve diversity in the least diverse schools. Jamestown, Discovery and friends won’t ever cross 29.

There are big plans to build on Lee highway even north of it. The Tuckahoe PTA knows about it, I guess you do not. Friends cross Lee highway all the time so try again.

Oh, come on. Even when a developer got the Sun Trust property, they decided to put townhouses on it rather than a high-rise apartment building.

They won't cross 29 for schools. Anything below 29 will go to Reed, Glebe or Taylor. It keeps the J/D/N triad safe.

You forgot Tuckahoe. Also, Nottingham already reaches across 29 (as does Tuckahoe), something that is likely to continue in order to fill the schools up there. Especially if they go ahead with the suggestion of stretching Ashlawn's boundary south of 50.

So what’s the deal with ASF that keeps coming up? When new boundaries come to that part of Arlington seems like there would be good diversity from the Ballston, VA Square, and Courthouse areas. Heck, the one place there is affordable housing along Lee highway is between Kirkwood and N Scott st.

The area around asf is a million dollar sfhs. To connect the walk zone to the area currently zoned for it, you have to build a bridge through Lyon village, again all million dollar single family homes. The area currently zoned around asf is a really good mix of different economic statuses— it has affordable housing, apartments, townhomes, and million dollar sfh. To make the asf walk zone for 2019, unless they made it an island, you have to zone out most of the existing school. Since discussion of moving key isn’t happening this fall, that means most of those families would be rezoned for Taylor, the school that has the most space. Taylor is over 2 miles away for most of the current asfs attendance zone, which mostly consists of apartment dwellers who dont drive much. You could make two diverse schools by having asf boundary go in the direction of ats, if they touch it this fall though it will have to go east through very expensive houses. Since you can’t move people twice, that means that you made a very rich white school (as opposed to the current asfs that is very diverse), when you had the potential to make two very diverse schools (by having asfs go south, Key go east).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to ideas... please.

I understand the small spaces and multiple owners on Lee, but it can be done. And yes, it will cost more up front, but it costs the county and community less in the long run if the schools have some semblance of diversity and poverty is not so concentrated. Unless the regulators here stop seeking as much affordable housing as they can get in the south, and fund a smaller but valuable amount in the north, nothing will change. "Cost" is not just the funding needed to purchase the land. And, studies show that the cost to purchase commercial land in North Arlington is not that much more than south. Someone did a study of purchases over the last decade and it was shocking that in some instances land was more costly in South Arlington.

The American Legion in Clarendon is being redeveloped as entirely affordable housing. It’s a fairly big parcel about 1.25 acres.

And within walking distance of ASFS, Stratford and W-L.

Interesting. I heard that back before the initiative was put on pause, some Cherrydale parents had been proposing a new boundary for ASFS that was basically Cherrydale + Lyon Village (except the couple blocks east of Barton, ie the block where Key sits) and the mostly SFHs in the ASFS walkzone. I guess all the apartments currently in Key/ASFS zone would be sent to Key under that plan? Was that ever a real proposal or was that just a rumor?

That was exactly what they were proposing and lobbying for. They had all these spreadsheets showing how well it worked to have the dividing line be Barton.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to ideas... please.

I understand the small spaces and multiple owners on Lee, but it can be done. And yes, it will cost more up front, but it costs the county and community less in the long run if the schools have some semblance of diversity and poverty is not so concentrated. Unless the regulators here stop seeking as much affordable housing as they can get in the south, and fund a smaller but valuable amount in the north, nothing will change. "Cost" is not just the funding needed to purchase the land. And, studies show that the cost to purchase commercial land in North Arlington is not that much more than south. Someone did a study of purchases over the last decade and it was shocking that in some instances land was more costly in South Arlington.

Do you have a link to that study?

I'd like to see that too, because it's not really credible to me that there's not much difference in commercial sale prices between North and South Arlington.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand what is so controversial about boundaries. Some people will move. But schools across Arlington are all good, and after Fleet and Reed come online everyone will be better off when capacity is balanced and APS can finally get rid of many trailers. Start with each school's walk zone than start adding more bus-able students until the school is full. Move onto the next school. Repeat.

You def live in north Arlington. North Arlington schools are interchangeable. Strong PTAs, no title I status. All schools are good schools, including those in SA. But they aren't good or better than others for everyone who is zoned for them.

But please, do tell us more about how you chose to live in South Arlington because you value diversity so much.

I don't get why simply pointing out the enormous north south differences and relative homogeneity of north Arlington, economically, is so "triggering" for you. Still upset about whatever compatriot of yours said that 100,000 isn't a lot of money? But sure, I'll tell you again. I value diversity and if I just wanted to send my kid to a school without economic diversity I'd leave the area entirely. I'm not claiming any moral virtue. South Arlinggto schools aren't diverse. They are segregated, just like the north. But unlike the north, I see the potential for integration here.

I know, I know. You value diversity, but only as long as it’s the “right” kind of diversity in the “right” proportions. And integration is good as long as it’s the “right” kids being integrated into your school to boost your school’s performance but not if it’s your child being integrated into the “wrong” school, even though that school is where we really need to see integration from kids like yours to balance diversity and improve schools.

You seem confused as to what diversity is. It's a school not dominated by wealth or by poverty. Beyond that, it could take any number of forms. I haven't prescribed anything particular. You seem bent on finding an ulterior, selfish motivation for my support for integrated schools that somehow harms others. The Ruth is that integrated schools are good for everyone and I make no apologies for my support.

No, what I’m saying is that you only want to see those schools integrated if it’s someone else’s kids moving in to integrate them.

It is my kid doing that. I'm in South Arlington.

I am not afraid of living in an integrated community and having my kids go to an integrated school. However, I wouldn't want my elementary school kid to be bussed to a school that is a 20+ minute drive in the wrong direction that I need to somehow figure out how to get to for aftercare pickup everyday. When people say they value proximity it isn't racist code, it's a realistic assessment of life logistics.

No one is calling for "bussing". It ended here decades ago and by the 1980s the only elementaries children from Nauck were bussed to were Barcroft, Randolph, and Abingdon. Hardly a 20 minute drive in the wrong direction for kids living around Drew.

Modern alternatives include expanding option schools, and drawing elementary boundaries to be marginally more integrated. But even those measures are political no starters here, in supposedly liberal Arlington. See Arlington Forest, for example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand what is so controversial about boundaries. Some people will move. But schools across Arlington are all good, and after Fleet and Reed come online everyone will be better off when capacity is balanced and APS can finally get rid of many trailers. Start with each school's walk zone than start adding more bus-able students until the school is full. Move onto the next school. Repeat.

You def live in north Arlington. North Arlington schools are interchangeable. Strong PTAs, no title I status. All schools are good schools, including those in SA. But they aren't good or better than others for everyone who is zoned for them.

But please, do tell us more about how you chose to live in South Arlington because you value diversity so much.

I don't get why simply pointing out the enormous north south differences and relative homogeneity of north Arlington, economically, is so "triggering" for you. Still upset about whatever compatriot of yours said that 100,000 isn't a lot of money? But sure, I'll tell you again. I value diversity and if I just wanted to send my kid to a school without economic diversity I'd leave the area entirely. I'm not claiming any moral virtue. South Arlinggto schools aren't diverse. They are segregated, just like the north. But unlike the north, I see the potential for integration here.

I know, I know. You value diversity, but only as long as it’s the “right” kind of diversity in the “right” proportions. And integration is good as long as it’s the “right” kids being integrated into your school to boost your school’s performance but not if it’s your child being integrated into the “wrong” school, even though that school is where we really need to see integration from kids like yours to balance diversity and improve schools.

You seem confused as to what diversity is. It's a school not dominated by wealth or by poverty. Beyond that, it could take any number of forms. I haven't prescribed anything particular. You seem bent on finding an ulterior, selfish motivation for my support for integrated schools that somehow harms others. The Ruth is that integrated schools are good for everyone and I make no apologies for my support.

No, what I’m saying is that you only want to see those schools integrated if it’s someone else’s kids moving in to integrate them.

It is my kid doing that. I'm in South Arlington.

I am not afraid of living in an integrated community and having my kids go to an integrated school. However, I wouldn't want my elementary school kid to be bussed to a school that is a 20+ minute drive in the wrong direction that I need to somehow figure out how to get to for aftercare pickup everyday. When people say they value proximity it isn't racist code, it's a realistic assessment of life logistics.

No one is calling for "bussing". It ended here decades ago and by the 1980s the only elementaries children from Nauck were bussed to were Barcroft, Randolph, and Abingdon. Hardly a 20 minute drive in the wrong direction for kids living around Drew.

Modern alternatives include expanding option schools, and drawing elementary boundaries to be marginally more integrated. But even those measures are political no starters here, in supposedly liberal Arlington. See Arlington Forest, for example.

If you think no one is calling for busing, you haven't been reading the discussions here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to ideas... please.

I understand the small spaces and multiple owners on Lee, but it can be done. And yes, it will cost more up front, but it costs the county and community less in the long run if the schools have some semblance of diversity and poverty is not so concentrated. Unless the regulators here stop seeking as much affordable housing as they can get in the south, and fund a smaller but valuable amount in the north, nothing will change. "Cost" is not just the funding needed to purchase the land. And, studies show that the cost to purchase commercial land in North Arlington is not that much more than south. Someone did a study of purchases over the last decade and it was shocking that in some instances land was more costly in South Arlington.

Do you have a link to that study?

I'd like to see that too, because it's not really credible to me that there's not much difference in commercial sale prices between North and South Arlington.

Real estate listings obviously aren't the same as sales, but looking at the commercial listings for office and retail I found on loopnet, average asking price per square foot in North Arlington is around $500, while in South Arlington it's around $350.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand what is so controversial about boundaries. Some people will move. But schools across Arlington are all good, and after Fleet and Reed come online everyone will be better off when capacity is balanced and APS can finally get rid of many trailers. Start with each school's walk zone than start adding more bus-able students until the school is full. Move onto the next school. Repeat.

You def live in north Arlington. North Arlington schools are interchangeable. Strong PTAs, no title I status. All schools are good schools, including those in SA. But they aren't good or better than others for everyone who is zoned for them.

But please, do tell us more about how you chose to live in South Arlington because you value diversity so much.

I don't get why simply pointing out the enormous north south differences and relative homogeneity of north Arlington, economically, is so "triggering" for you. Still upset about whatever compatriot of yours said that 100,000 isn't a lot of money? But sure, I'll tell you again. I value diversity and if I just wanted to send my kid to a school without economic diversity I'd leave the area entirely. I'm not claiming any moral virtue. South Arlinggto schools aren't diverse. They are segregated, just like the north. But unlike the north, I see the potential for integration here.

I know, I know. You value diversity, but only as long as it’s the “right” kind of diversity in the “right” proportions. And integration is good as long as it’s the “right” kids being integrated into your school to boost your school’s performance but not if it’s your child being integrated into the “wrong” school, even though that school is where we really need to see integration from kids like yours to balance diversity and improve schools.

You seem confused as to what diversity is. It's a school not dominated by wealth or by poverty. Beyond that, it could take any number of forms. I haven't prescribed anything particular. You seem bent on finding an ulterior, selfish motivation for my support for integrated schools that somehow harms others. The Ruth is that integrated schools are good for everyone and I make no apologies for my support.

No, what I’m saying is that you only want to see those schools integrated if it’s someone else’s kids moving in to integrate them.

It is my kid doing that. I'm in South Arlington.

I am not afraid of living in an integrated community and having my kids go to an integrated school. However, I wouldn't want my elementary school kid to be bussed to a school that is a 20+ minute drive in the wrong direction that I need to somehow figure out how to get to for aftercare pickup everyday. When people say they value proximity it isn't racist code, it's a realistic assessment of life logistics.

No one is calling for "bussing". It ended here decades ago and by the 1980s the only elementaries children from Nauck were bussed to were Barcroft, Randolph, and Abingdon. Hardly a 20 minute drive in the wrong direction for kids living around Drew.

Modern alternatives include expanding option schools, and drawing elementary boundaries to be marginally more integrated. But even those measures are political no starters here, in supposedly liberal Arlington. See Arlington Forest, for example.

I live in Rosslyn and there's a real chance that we get rezoned to Taylor, which could count as a redraw to make things more integrated. Unfortunately, if you're driving from my house to Taylor between 5 and 6, it's going to take 20+ minutes to get there. At least I have a car, not all of us do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back to ideas... please.

I understand the small spaces and multiple owners on Lee, but it can be done. And yes, it will cost more up front, but it costs the county and community less in the long run if the schools have some semblance of diversity and poverty is not so concentrated. Unless the regulators here stop seeking as much affordable housing as they can get in the south, and fund a smaller but valuable amount in the north, nothing will change. "Cost" is not just the funding needed to purchase the land. And, studies show that the cost to purchase commercial land in North Arlington is not that much more than south. Someone did a study of purchases over the last decade and it was shocking that in some instances land was more costly in South Arlington.

The American Legion in Clarendon is being redeveloped as entirely affordable housing. It’s a fairly big parcel about 1.25 acres.

And within walking distance of ASFS, Stratford and W-L.

Interesting. I heard that back before the initiative was put on pause, some Cherrydale parents had been proposing a new boundary for ASFS that was basically Cherrydale + Lyon Village (except the couple blocks east of Barton, ie the block where Key sits) and the mostly SFHs in the ASFS walkzone. I guess all the apartments currently in Key/ASFS zone would be sent to Key under that plan? Was that ever a real proposal or was that just a rumor?

That was exactly what they were proposing and lobbying for. They had all these spreadsheets showing how well it worked to have the dividing line be Barton.

Yeah I don’t believe the cherrydale faction intended to be racist/classist but combining Lyon village and Cherrydale SFH definitely would have that outcome.

Most current families at ASFS want to keep the current population And maybe tack on a small walk zone. It’s the usurping Cherrydale families looking to seize the school for their neighborhood who have a scorched earth approach and don’t care if they end up kicking out families with less means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand what is so controversial about boundaries. Some people will move. But schools across Arlington are all good, and after Fleet and Reed come online everyone will be better off when capacity is balanced and APS can finally get rid of many trailers. Start with each school's walk zone than start adding more bus-able students until the school is full. Move onto the next school. Repeat.

You def live in north Arlington. North Arlington schools are interchangeable. Strong PTAs, no title I status. All schools are good schools, including those in SA. But they aren't good or better than others for everyone who is zoned for them.

But please, do tell us more about how you chose to live in South Arlington because you value diversity so much.

I don't get why simply pointing out the enormous north south differences and relative homogeneity of north Arlington, economically, is so "triggering" for you. Still upset about whatever compatriot of yours said that 100,000 isn't a lot of money? But sure, I'll tell you again. I value diversity and if I just wanted to send my kid to a school without economic diversity I'd leave the area entirely. I'm not claiming any moral virtue. South Arlinggto schools aren't diverse. They are segregated, just like the north. But unlike the north, I see the potential for integration here.

I know, I know. You value diversity, but only as long as it’s the “right” kind of diversity in the “right” proportions. And integration is good as long as it’s the “right” kids being integrated into your school to boost your school’s performance but not if it’s your child being integrated into the “wrong” school, even though that school is where we really need to see integration from kids like yours to balance diversity and improve schools.

You seem confused as to what diversity is. It's a school not dominated by wealth or by poverty. Beyond that, it could take any number of forms. I haven't prescribed anything particular. You seem bent on finding an ulterior, selfish motivation for my support for integrated schools that somehow harms others. The Ruth is that integrated schools are good for everyone and I make no apologies for my support.

No, what I’m saying is that you only want to see those schools integrated if it’s someone else’s kids moving in to integrate them.

It is my kid doing that. I'm in South Arlington.

I am not afraid of living in an integrated community and having my kids go to an integrated school. However, I wouldn't want my elementary school kid to be bussed to a school that is a 20+ minute drive in the wrong direction that I need to somehow figure out how to get to for aftercare pickup everyday. When people say they value proximity it isn't racist code, it's a realistic assessment of life logistics.

No one is calling for "bussing". It ended here decades ago and by the 1980s the only elementaries children from Nauck were bussed to were Barcroft, Randolph, and Abingdon. Hardly a 20 minute drive in the wrong direction for kids living around Drew.

Modern alternatives include expanding option schools, and drawing elementary boundaries to be marginally more integrated. But even those measures are political no starters here, in supposedly liberal Arlington. See Arlington Forest, for example.

If you think no one is calling for busing, you haven't been reading the discussions here.

No one in touch with reality is, ok? My point stands.

[Anonymous]

maybe there are some people on this website who talk about busing, the School Board has not and they are what counts.

As for the study, I unfortunately do not have a link. I recall it looked at the cost per foot along the pike and other areas over the last decade or so. It was really shocking, and it looked at the cost of the land under Gillian place, to be a huge family affordable housing building, and other lots further north. We are not talking rental or retail space - this is land and land only.

[Anonymous]

^^^ exactly. Every time someone suggests a moderate proposal to help integrate schools, some one starts screaming about busing kids 40 min from Jamestown to Drew, which is not what has been suggested. Anything to avoid the conversation...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:maybe there are some people on this website who talk about busing, the School Board has not and they are what counts.

As for the study, I unfortunately do not have a link. I recall it looked at the cost per foot along the pike and other areas over the last decade or so. It was really shocking, and it looked at the cost of the land under Gillian place, to be a huge family affordable housing building, and other lots further north. We are not talking rental or retail space - this is land and land only.

I saw it too. It’s a myth that land is more expensive on Lee highway than the Pike...
The metro lines are very similar blue and orange.
Lee and the Pike are similar.
It’s about political will and easily exploited populations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. It’s not about building on Lee. It’s about building N of Lee, even if just on the N side. Anything below Lee won’t improve diversity in the least diverse schools. Jamestown, Discovery and friends won’t ever cross 29.

There are big plans to build on Lee highway even north of it. The Tuckahoe PTA knows about it, I guess you do not. Friends cross Lee highway all the time so try again.

Oh, come on. Even when a developer got the Sun Trust property, they decided to put townhouses on it rather than a high-rise apartment building.

They won't cross 29 for schools. Anything below 29 will go to Reed, Glebe or Taylor. It keeps the J/D/N triad safe.

You forgot Tuckahoe. Also, Nottingham already reaches across 29 (as does Tuckahoe), something that is likely to continue in order to fill the schools up there. Especially if they go ahead with the suggestion of stretching Ashlawn's boundary south of 50.

So what’s the deal with ASF that keeps coming up? When new boundaries come to that part of Arlington seems like there would be good diversity from the Ballston, VA Square, and Courthouse areas. Heck, the one place there is affordable housing along Lee highway is between Kirkwood and N Scott st.

The area around asf is a million dollar sfhs. To connect the walk zone to the area currently zoned for it, you have to build a bridge through Lyon village, again all million dollar single family homes. The area currently zoned around asf is a really good mix of different economic statuses— it has affordable housing, apartments, townhomes, and million dollar sfh. To make the asf walk zone for 2019, unless they made it an island, you have to zone out most of the existing school. Since discussion of moving key isn’t happening this fall, that means most of those families would be rezoned for Taylor, the school that has the most space. Taylor is over 2 miles away for most of the current asfs attendance zone, which mostly consists of apartment dwellers who dont drive much. You could make two diverse schools by having asf boundary go in the direction of ats, if they touch it this fall though it will have to go east through very expensive houses. Since you can’t move people twice, that means that you made a very rich white school (as opposed to the current asfs that is very diverse), when you had the potential to make two very diverse schools (by having asfs go south, Key go east).

Here we go again with the half truths about Cherrydale, Lyon Village, Key and ASFS. Some of you must be really bored at work today with all your co-workers on vacation to want to rehash this yet again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:maybe there are some people on this website who talk about busing, the School Board has not and they are what counts.

As for the study, I unfortunately do not have a link. I recall it looked at the cost per foot along the pike and other areas over the last decade or so. It was really shocking, and it looked at the cost of the land under Gillian place, to be a huge family affordable housing building, and other lots further north. We are not talking rental or retail space - this is land and land only.

How in the world can you compare just vacant land sales, especially if we're specifically looking at NW Arlington (which is where we started this conversation). There aren't any vacant land parcels to buy, you'd have to buy a developed lot and pay a premium for that.

Also, real estate prices from ten years ago have little bearing on current real estate prices.