MCPS to end areawide Blair Magnet and countywide Richard Montgomery's IB program

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You need a critical mass of highly able students in the same classroom, a good program, and good teachers for this to be successful. Montgomery county benefited from the national awards won by Blair, Poolesville, and RM students, by increased tax revenue for instance. It is simply not possible to achieve the same level of success with regional programs. There won't be enough interested and capable students to justify the same level of classes at the same number of classes. There won't be enough teachers capable of teaching these classes at the same level they are taught today. For all practical purposes, this is the end of a very successful program. Sad.

Totally agree. It’s just impossible to duplicate those highly successful programs across all six regions. Eventually, the so-called magnet programs in each region will become just regular programs with a few advanced classes.

But I guess no one cares.

People don't care because the few magnets slots are placed in the far eastern part of the county or upper Northwest part of the county. For the vast majority of us, our kids either didn't qualify because we haven't been prepping them since the age of 5 AND/OR we live far away and travel time isn't worth it. What is the plan for middle school magnets? IMO, that is the level where we most need reform.

Middle school magnets are on the chopping block next year. I haven't heard about the gifted and talented programs at the elementary school levels, but it makes sense those will be cancelled after the middle school programs are unwound.

If that means that GT kids will have access to accelerated and enriched programming that is meaningful at local schools that is great. My children have never had lottery luck and have been stuck with sun-par programming at local schools.

100% this. The current magnet lottery system at the younger grades is very unfair. But I guess we can eat our cake.

And this new proposal is developed by the same folks?

Yes, keen insight there.

[Anonymous]

Incredibly sad. Blair is an extraordinary program in a very mediocre and declining school district. And yes, the peers and their families are what made this special. Extraordinary kids and extraordinary expectations from the parents on academics. Most kids in MCPS don't work hard, even in the Ws, and their parents care more about athletics than academics. The administrators care less about excellence than placating people. We probably would not have stayed in MOCO if this program didn't exist.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I appreciate the perspective of the current student, but listen to those of us with experience outside specialized schools. You would still have your string peer group because you would be taking the same classes for your specialized program. Possibly some of your electives might be integrated with “regular” kids, but it’s an important life skill for you to learn. You will not live your adult life surrounded by peers with your same level of intelligence, motivation, and access.

My own experience at a HS in a different state with 3,000 students, 555 in my graduating class. Our grade had a cohort of kids on advanced tracks and we were need up with almost all of our classes together for 4 years because we were the only students eligible for those advanced courses.

MCPS doesn't have a TJ or Stuy.
The countywide programs already have electives and even core courses shared with the host school.

Regardless, people who have never seen a specialized countywide program for don't understand the value it provides for the students who would be bored in the "advanced" courses.

When we were young, students who didn't have access to such programs would graduate high school early or Dual Enroll at a university, and have to find a gap year program or deal with the social challenge of being a year or more younger than their classmates.

And that’s what will happen again. For the regular advanced kids there are already many options - there is a wealth of AP classes, more IB spots than demand, the CAP program, Project Lead the Way, early college, dual enrollment. SO MANY options, not all well used. Any motivated advanced student can build a path through high school that meets their needs. But for the very highly motivated and extremely high achieving, Blair is the offering with the track record of meeting their needs. For a very small number of kids who need it. It is extremely short sighted to take this away.

A) Blair isn’t going away it’s catchment area is changing
B) If it’s for a very small number of kids then it actually makes sense if it does go away and instead funnel those kids to their next stage at university. The county has to be good stewards of resources in providing opportunity.

So basically don’t provide a challenge for the most advanced learners. Got it!

Where does this logic end? Should UMD become open enrollment in order to provide opportunities?

The only thing I find persuasive against the magnets is that the academic pressure is too much now because of the escalating competition. I’m not sure how you solve for that - if kids do just as well in a less intense setting then maybe it is important for schools to consider the kids’ overall wellness. But you hear plenty of stories of kids from top public HS fighting the same battles for accomplishments so I am not at all sure that this is unique to the culture of magnets.

K-12 does not serve the same end as higher education, nor does access function in the same way. You cannot compare a public school magnet to a flagship university. And no one has claimed we shouldn’t be challenging the top students. We are arguing about how to allocate resources in a large public school system that needs to provide for all students. UMD has no such obligation.

Yeah only because you are creating arbitrary distinctions though. It used to be that there was no question that the smartest kids in K-12 should get tracked or placed in magnets. In the past decade, this has become anathema for K-12 for a variety of reasons variously (and contradictorily) expressed as concerns with equity, or assertions that kids did not "need" advancement and it was bad for them (that was the SF argument for withholding algebra until 9th grade). Especially with regards to HS, there is no logical distinction between this kind of negative view of selectivity in private school that would not also extend to flagship colleges. What I believe happened is that K-12 education was caputured by dumbsh*ts chasing educational trends with no regard for actually teaching kids. And this extends also to other disastrous choices like "Zoom school," getting rid of textbooks, teaching kids math via computer apps ...

I do believe the smartest kids should get access to an accelerated track. The issue is that they currently don’t. CES and middle school magnets are lottery based. High school magnets have some successes but also some widespread equity issues including geography. I want more many more students to get access to advanced classes and a peer cohort. I’m less concerned about the couple dozen students per year across the entire county that might lose something kind of cool.

And yet you have no basis to believe getting rid of the magnets will provide anything to the other kids.

How is this confusing? We are talking about expanding the number of programs so more kids can get seats. I understand you don’t think it will work but you are being disingenuous when you say that I or anyone else wants to scrap magnets.

At the meeting Taylor said the proposal is to scrap the countywide magnets. If you prefer to use the term "decimal" or "butcher" that's fine too.

No, he didn't. Those programs would continue, but for a smaller region.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Incredibly sad. Blair is an extraordinary program in a very mediocre and declining school district. And yes, the peers and their families are what made this special. Extraordinary kids and extraordinary expectations from the parents on academics. Most kids in MCPS don't work hard, even in the Ws, and their parents care more about athletics than academics. The administrators care less about excellence than placating people. We probably would not have stayed in MOCO if this program didn't exist.

The school isn't mediocre. Its not a top school, but that's because many flee vs. giving it a chance (by then want into the magnet). And, many of us care about academics first. Admin tow the MCPS line and don't about students, parents or staff. Let me guess, you are a W family who should stay in your own lane and want to justify going to Blair and taking up spots that should be saved for DCC kids only.

[Anonymous]

Maybe... but not wrong.
dp. I had one kid go through a magnet and one not. I would rather keep the magnets for super high achieving kids than water it down. These magnets are one of the few shining stars in MCPS. Watering it down, and yes, it will get watered down if you try to create six regional programs, will effectively kill that shining star.

Such a shame.

I'm all for creating additional programs, but not getting rid of the county wide magnets that attract the very top achieving students.

The problem is these magnet programs, at least at the middle school level, are not actually attracting the top achievers. It's a lottery where 85 percentile and above are entered. It's a pretty low threshold. My kid had the highest MAP score in his school, and was highly motivated. He didn't get in, nor did at least the next top five scorers (his friends), but a kid who scored 35 points lower than the others and who could care less about school did. Because it's a lottery. Others got in because their older siblings were already participating, even though their scores were relatively low. Something has to change because these programs are not serving a majority of the kids who really need them/would benefit the most.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I appreciate the perspective of the current student, but listen to those of us with experience outside specialized schools. You would still have your string peer group because you would be taking the same classes for your specialized program. Possibly some of your electives might be integrated with “regular” kids, but it’s an important life skill for you to learn. You will not live your adult life surrounded by peers with your same level of intelligence, motivation, and access.

My own experience at a HS in a different state with 3,000 students, 555 in my graduating class. Our grade had a cohort of kids on advanced tracks and we were need up with almost all of our classes together for 4 years because we were the only students eligible for those advanced courses.

MCPS doesn't have a TJ or Stuy.
The countywide programs already have electives and even core courses shared with the host school.

Regardless, people who have never seen a specialized countywide program for don't understand the value it provides for the students who would be bored in the "advanced" courses.

When we were young, students who didn't have access to such programs would graduate high school early or Dual Enroll at a university, and have to find a gap year program or deal with the social challenge of being a year or more younger than their classmates.

And that’s what will happen again. For the regular advanced kids there are already many options - there is a wealth of AP classes, more IB spots than demand, the CAP program, Project Lead the Way, early college, dual enrollment. SO MANY options, not all well used. Any motivated advanced student can build a path through high school that meets their needs. But for the very highly motivated and extremely high achieving, Blair is the offering with the track record of meeting their needs. For a very small number of kids who need it. It is extremely short sighted to take this away.

A) Blair isn’t going away it’s catchment area is changing
B) If it’s for a very small number of kids then it actually makes sense if it does go away and instead funnel those kids to their next stage at university. The county has to be good stewards of resources in providing opportunity.

So basically don’t provide a challenge for the most advanced learners. Got it!

Where does this logic end? Should UMD become open enrollment in order to provide opportunities?

The only thing I find persuasive against the magnets is that the academic pressure is too much now because of the escalating competition. I’m not sure how you solve for that - if kids do just as well in a less intense setting then maybe it is important for schools to consider the kids’ overall wellness. But you hear plenty of stories of kids from top public HS fighting the same battles for accomplishments so I am not at all sure that this is unique to the culture of magnets.

K-12 does not serve the same end as higher education, nor does access function in the same way. You cannot compare a public school magnet to a flagship university. And no one has claimed we shouldn’t be challenging the top students. We are arguing about how to allocate resources in a large public school system that needs to provide for all students. UMD has no such obligation.

Yeah only because you are creating arbitrary distinctions though. It used to be that there was no question that the smartest kids in K-12 should get tracked or placed in magnets. In the past decade, this has become anathema for K-12 for a variety of reasons variously (and contradictorily) expressed as concerns with equity, or assertions that kids did not "need" advancement and it was bad for them (that was the SF argument for withholding algebra until 9th grade). Especially with regards to HS, there is no logical distinction between this kind of negative view of selectivity in private school that would not also extend to flagship colleges. What I believe happened is that K-12 education was caputured by dumbsh*ts chasing educational trends with no regard for actually teaching kids. And this extends also to other disastrous choices like "Zoom school," getting rid of textbooks, teaching kids math via computer apps ...

I do believe the smartest kids should get access to an accelerated track. The issue is that they currently don’t. CES and middle school magnets are lottery based. High school magnets have some successes but also some widespread equity issues including geography. I want more many more students to get access to advanced classes and a peer cohort. I’m less concerned about the couple dozen students per year across the entire county that might lose something kind of cool.

2024-2025 School Year:

• There were 12 special programs housed in 8 different high schools.

• 3,149 high school students (6% of all high school students; roughly 775 per grade) were enrolled in special programs.

Proposal for 2027-2028 School Year

•No countywide special programs

•The same 5 special programs will be offered in each of 6 regions (30 smaller special programs)

1. Going from 12 special programs to 30 means we’re going to need many more teachers who are qualified to teach the most advanced classes.

2. The catchment area for each new program will be much, much smaller than the catchment areas for current programs. The most competitive students in the county will be spread out across 6 regions instead of clustered together.

3. How much can we increase the number of students enrolled in special programs without any significant decrease in the average ability of the cohorts? We currently enroll 6% of high school students in special programs. Should we enroll 10%? More than that?

At some point there is a diminishing return on the expansion of seats. A) We can offer the most rigorous classes to a modest number of the top students or B) we can offer slightly more rigor to all good students.

If your child is a good student who didn’t make it into any high school magnet program, it’s understandable that you would support any change that would give your child access to more advanced classes or a stronger cohort, but I’m not sure the proposed plan will deliver that. I fear that the new system will result in the equivalent of MCPS putting everyone into Honors English in middle school: Honors English ends up not being an advanced course because the classes are made up of plenty of students who aren’t particularly advanced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I appreciate the perspective of the current student, but listen to those of us with experience outside specialized schools. You would still have your string peer group because you would be taking the same classes for your specialized program. Possibly some of your electives might be integrated with “regular” kids, but it’s an important life skill for you to learn. You will not live your adult life surrounded by peers with your same level of intelligence, motivation, and access.

My own experience at a HS in a different state with 3,000 students, 555 in my graduating class. Our grade had a cohort of kids on advanced tracks and we were need up with almost all of our classes together for 4 years because we were the only students eligible for those advanced courses.

MCPS doesn't have a TJ or Stuy.
The countywide programs already have electives and even core courses shared with the host school.

Regardless, people who have never seen a specialized countywide program for don't understand the value it provides for the students who would be bored in the "advanced" courses.

When we were young, students who didn't have access to such programs would graduate high school early or Dual Enroll at a university, and have to find a gap year program or deal with the social challenge of being a year or more younger than their classmates.

And that’s what will happen again. For the regular advanced kids there are already many options - there is a wealth of AP classes, more IB spots than demand, the CAP program, Project Lead the Way, early college, dual enrollment. SO MANY options, not all well used. Any motivated advanced student can build a path through high school that meets their needs. But for the very highly motivated and extremely high achieving, Blair is the offering with the track record of meeting their needs. For a very small number of kids who need it. It is extremely short sighted to take this away.

A) Blair isn’t going away it’s catchment area is changing
B) If it’s for a very small number of kids then it actually makes sense if it does go away and instead funnel those kids to their next stage at university. The county has to be good stewards of resources in providing opportunity.

So basically don’t provide a challenge for the most advanced learners. Got it!

Where does this logic end? Should UMD become open enrollment in order to provide opportunities?

The only thing I find persuasive against the magnets is that the academic pressure is too much now because of the escalating competition. I’m not sure how you solve for that - if kids do just as well in a less intense setting then maybe it is important for schools to consider the kids’ overall wellness. But you hear plenty of stories of kids from top public HS fighting the same battles for accomplishments so I am not at all sure that this is unique to the culture of magnets.

K-12 does not serve the same end as higher education, nor does access function in the same way. You cannot compare a public school magnet to a flagship university. And no one has claimed we shouldn’t be challenging the top students. We are arguing about how to allocate resources in a large public school system that needs to provide for all students. UMD has no such obligation.

Yeah only because you are creating arbitrary distinctions though. It used to be that there was no question that the smartest kids in K-12 should get tracked or placed in magnets. In the past decade, this has become anathema for K-12 for a variety of reasons variously (and contradictorily) expressed as concerns with equity, or assertions that kids did not "need" advancement and it was bad for them (that was the SF argument for withholding algebra until 9th grade). Especially with regards to HS, there is no logical distinction between this kind of negative view of selectivity in private school that would not also extend to flagship colleges. What I believe happened is that K-12 education was caputured by dumbsh*ts chasing educational trends with no regard for actually teaching kids. And this extends also to other disastrous choices like "Zoom school," getting rid of textbooks, teaching kids math via computer apps ...

I do believe the smartest kids should get access to an accelerated track. The issue is that they currently don’t. CES and middle school magnets are lottery based. High school magnets have some successes but also some widespread equity issues including geography. I want more many more students to get access to advanced classes and a peer cohort. I’m less concerned about the couple dozen students per year across the entire county that might lose something kind of cool.

2024-2025 School Year:


1. Going from 12 special programs to 30 means we’re going to need many more teachers who are qualified to teach the most advanced classes.

Sure, but you are also going to have a beat to hire those folks. I've had a child in the "most rigorous" magnet (SMCS) and one in a magnet that is already regional (CAP). I can attest that even at the Blair magnet, the 9th and 10th graders are not taking classes that can't be taught by any reasonably qualified teacher in that subject. It's only in 11th and 12th grades that a handful of kids are taking classes that are effectively collegiate level.

The first class of kids at the regional magnets won't begin for two years, and they won't hit the highest level classes for another two. With thousands of laid off scientists around the region, some of whom are retraining though the special Maryland program to fast-track former feds and fed-adjacent folks, I am pretty sure they can scrape together enough teachers between now and four years from now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I appreciate the perspective of the current student, but listen to those of us with experience outside specialized schools. You would still have your string peer group because you would be taking the same classes for your specialized program. Possibly some of your electives might be integrated with “regular” kids, but it’s an important life skill for you to learn. You will not live your adult life surrounded by peers with your same level of intelligence, motivation, and access.

My own experience at a HS in a different state with 3,000 students, 555 in my graduating class. Our grade had a cohort of kids on advanced tracks and we were need up with almost all of our classes together for 4 years because we were the only students eligible for those advanced courses.

MCPS doesn't have a TJ or Stuy.
The countywide programs already have electives and even core courses shared with the host school.

Regardless, people who have never seen a specialized countywide program for don't understand the value it provides for the students who would be bored in the "advanced" courses.

When we were young, students who didn't have access to such programs would graduate high school early or Dual Enroll at a university, and have to find a gap year program or deal with the social challenge of being a year or more younger than their classmates.

And that’s what will happen again. For the regular advanced kids there are already many options - there is a wealth of AP classes, more IB spots than demand, the CAP program, Project Lead the Way, early college, dual enrollment. SO MANY options, not all well used. Any motivated advanced student can build a path through high school that meets their needs. But for the very highly motivated and extremely high achieving, Blair is the offering with the track record of meeting their needs. For a very small number of kids who need it. It is extremely short sighted to take this away.

A) Blair isn’t going away it’s catchment area is changing
B) If it’s for a very small number of kids then it actually makes sense if it does go away and instead funnel those kids to their next stage at university. The county has to be good stewards of resources in providing opportunity.

So basically don’t provide a challenge for the most advanced learners. Got it!

Where does this logic end? Should UMD become open enrollment in order to provide opportunities?

The only thing I find persuasive against the magnets is that the academic pressure is too much now because of the escalating competition. I’m not sure how you solve for that - if kids do just as well in a less intense setting then maybe it is important for schools to consider the kids’ overall wellness. But you hear plenty of stories of kids from top public HS fighting the same battles for accomplishments so I am not at all sure that this is unique to the culture of magnets.

K-12 does not serve the same end as higher education, nor does access function in the same way. You cannot compare a public school magnet to a flagship university. And no one has claimed we shouldn’t be challenging the top students. We are arguing about how to allocate resources in a large public school system that needs to provide for all students. UMD has no such obligation.

Yeah only because you are creating arbitrary distinctions though. It used to be that there was no question that the smartest kids in K-12 should get tracked or placed in magnets. In the past decade, this has become anathema for K-12 for a variety of reasons variously (and contradictorily) expressed as concerns with equity, or assertions that kids did not "need" advancement and it was bad for them (that was the SF argument for withholding algebra until 9th grade). Especially with regards to HS, there is no logical distinction between this kind of negative view of selectivity in private school that would not also extend to flagship colleges. What I believe happened is that K-12 education was caputured by dumbsh*ts chasing educational trends with no regard for actually teaching kids. And this extends also to other disastrous choices like "Zoom school," getting rid of textbooks, teaching kids math via computer apps ...

I do believe the smartest kids should get access to an accelerated track. The issue is that they currently don’t. CES and middle school magnets are lottery based. High school magnets have some successes but also some widespread equity issues including geography. I want more many more students to get access to advanced classes and a peer cohort. I’m less concerned about the couple dozen students per year across the entire county that might lose something kind of cool.

2024-2025 School Year:


1. Going from 12 special programs to 30 means we’re going to need many more teachers who are qualified to teach the most advanced classes.

Sure, but you are also going to have a beat to hire those folks. I've had a child in the "most rigorous" magnet (SMCS) and one in a magnet that is already regional (CAP). I can attest that even at the Blair magnet, the 9th and 10th graders are not taking classes that can't be taught by any reasonably qualified teacher in that subject. It's only in 11th and 12th grades that a handful of kids are taking classes that are effectively collegiate level.

The first class of kids at the regional magnets won't begin for two years, and they won't hit the highest level classes for another two. With thousands of laid off scientists around the region, some of whom are retraining though the special Maryland program to fast-track former feds and fed-adjacent folks, I am pretty sure they can scrape together enough teachers between now and four years from now.

So your “gut” tells you we are going to be okay… that’s great. Folks show’s over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I appreciate the perspective of the current student, but listen to those of us with experience outside specialized schools. You would still have your string peer group because you would be taking the same classes for your specialized program. Possibly some of your electives might be integrated with “regular” kids, but it’s an important life skill for you to learn. You will not live your adult life surrounded by peers with your same level of intelligence, motivation, and access.

My own experience at a HS in a different state with 3,000 students, 555 in my graduating class. Our grade had a cohort of kids on advanced tracks and we were need up with almost all of our classes together for 4 years because we were the only students eligible for those advanced courses.

MCPS doesn't have a TJ or Stuy.
The countywide programs already have electives and even core courses shared with the host school.

Regardless, people who have never seen a specialized countywide program for don't understand the value it provides for the students who would be bored in the "advanced" courses.

When we were young, students who didn't have access to such programs would graduate high school early or Dual Enroll at a university, and have to find a gap year program or deal with the social challenge of being a year or more younger than their classmates.

And that’s what will happen again. For the regular advanced kids there are already many options - there is a wealth of AP classes, more IB spots than demand, the CAP program, Project Lead the Way, early college, dual enrollment. SO MANY options, not all well used. Any motivated advanced student can build a path through high school that meets their needs. But for the very highly motivated and extremely high achieving, Blair is the offering with the track record of meeting their needs. For a very small number of kids who need it. It is extremely short sighted to take this away.

A) Blair isn’t going away it’s catchment area is changing
B) If it’s for a very small number of kids then it actually makes sense if it does go away and instead funnel those kids to their next stage at university. The county has to be good stewards of resources in providing opportunity.

So basically don’t provide a challenge for the most advanced learners. Got it!

Where does this logic end? Should UMD become open enrollment in order to provide opportunities?

The only thing I find persuasive against the magnets is that the academic pressure is too much now because of the escalating competition. I’m not sure how you solve for that - if kids do just as well in a less intense setting then maybe it is important for schools to consider the kids’ overall wellness. But you hear plenty of stories of kids from top public HS fighting the same battles for accomplishments so I am not at all sure that this is unique to the culture of magnets.

K-12 does not serve the same end as higher education, nor does access function in the same way. You cannot compare a public school magnet to a flagship university. And no one has claimed we shouldn’t be challenging the top students. We are arguing about how to allocate resources in a large public school system that needs to provide for all students. UMD has no such obligation.

Yeah only because you are creating arbitrary distinctions though. It used to be that there was no question that the smartest kids in K-12 should get tracked or placed in magnets. In the past decade, this has become anathema for K-12 for a variety of reasons variously (and contradictorily) expressed as concerns with equity, or assertions that kids did not "need" advancement and it was bad for them (that was the SF argument for withholding algebra until 9th grade). Especially with regards to HS, there is no logical distinction between this kind of negative view of selectivity in private school that would not also extend to flagship colleges. What I believe happened is that K-12 education was caputured by dumbsh*ts chasing educational trends with no regard for actually teaching kids. And this extends also to other disastrous choices like "Zoom school," getting rid of textbooks, teaching kids math via computer apps ...

I do believe the smartest kids should get access to an accelerated track. The issue is that they currently don’t. CES and middle school magnets are lottery based. High school magnets have some successes but also some widespread equity issues including geography. I want more many more students to get access to advanced classes and a peer cohort. I’m less concerned about the couple dozen students per year across the entire county that might lose something kind of cool.

2024-2025 School Year:


1. Going from 12 special programs to 30 means we’re going to need many more teachers who are qualified to teach the most advanced classes.

Sure, but you are also going to have a beat to hire those folks. I've had a child in the "most rigorous" magnet (SMCS) and one in a magnet that is already regional (CAP). I can attest that even at the Blair magnet, the 9th and 10th graders are not taking classes that can't be taught by any reasonably qualified teacher in that subject. It's only in 11th and 12th grades that a handful of kids are taking classes that are effectively collegiate level.

The first class of kids at the regional magnets won't begin for two years, and they won't hit the highest level classes for another two. With thousands of laid off scientists around the region, some of whom are retraining though the special Maryland program to fast-track former feds and fed-adjacent folks, I am pretty sure they can scrape together enough teachers between now and four years from now.

So your “gut” tells you we are going to be okay… that’s great. Folks show’s over.

It's all gut projection. I think four years is long enough to hire the very small number of specialized teachers needed (not every magnet class requires it). You think four years is not long enough. Only time will tell who is correct but at least I'm having a fact-based conversation about timing and the true number of super-advanced classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need a critical mass of highly able students in the same classroom, a good program, and good teachers for this to be successful. Montgomery county benefited from the national awards won by Blair, Poolesville, and RM students, by increased tax revenue for instance. It is simply not possible to achieve the same level of success with regional programs. There won't be enough interested and capable students to justify the same level of classes at the same number of classes. There won't be enough teachers capable of teaching these classes at the same level they are taught today. For all practical purposes, this is the end of a very successful program. Sad.

Totally agree. It’s just impossible to duplicate those highly successful programs across all six regions. Eventually, the so-called magnet programs in each region will become just regular programs with a few advanced classes.

But I guess no one cares.

People don't care because the few magnets slots are placed in the far eastern part of the county or upper Northwest part of the county. For the vast majority of us, our kids either didn't qualify because we haven't been prepping them since the age of 5 AND/OR we live far away and travel time isn't worth it. What is the plan for middle school magnets? IMO, that is the level where we most need reform.

Middle school magnets are on the chopping block next year. I haven't heard about the gifted and talented programs at the elementary school levels, but it makes sense those will be cancelled after the middle school programs are unwound.

If that means that GT kids will have access to accelerated and enriched programming that is meaningful at local schools that is great. My children have never had lottery luck and have been stuck with sun-par programming at local schools.

You’re delusion if you think this means any improvement for your kids.

Well worth my kids not being served at all
By CES/magnets right now, it won’t be any worse for them.

You need to think about beyond

DP. The status quo is not serving the vast majority of CO-identified students with needs for acceleration, especially in secondary.

The reforms won’t help them. And if the students cannot benefit from the AP programs they already have - what makes you think a regional magnet will be better

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I appreciate the perspective of the current student, but listen to those of us with experience outside specialized schools. You would still have your string peer group because you would be taking the same classes for your specialized program. Possibly some of your electives might be integrated with “regular” kids, but it’s an important life skill for you to learn. You will not live your adult life surrounded by peers with your same level of intelligence, motivation, and access.

My own experience at a HS in a different state with 3,000 students, 555 in my graduating class. Our grade had a cohort of kids on advanced tracks and we were need up with almost all of our classes together for 4 years because we were the only students eligible for those advanced courses.

MCPS doesn't have a TJ or Stuy.
The countywide programs already have electives and even core courses shared with the host school.

Regardless, people who have never seen a specialized countywide program for don't understand the value it provides for the students who would be bored in the "advanced" courses.

When we were young, students who didn't have access to such programs would graduate high school early or Dual Enroll at a university, and have to find a gap year program or deal with the social challenge of being a year or more younger than their classmates.

And that’s what will happen again. For the regular advanced kids there are already many options - there is a wealth of AP classes, more IB spots than demand, the CAP program, Project Lead the Way, early college, dual enrollment. SO MANY options, not all well used. Any motivated advanced student can build a path through high school that meets their needs. But for the very highly motivated and extremely high achieving, Blair is the offering with the track record of meeting their needs. For a very small number of kids who need it. It is extremely short sighted to take this away.

A) Blair isn’t going away it’s catchment area is changing
B) If it’s for a very small number of kids then it actually makes sense if it does go away and instead funnel those kids to their next stage at university. The county has to be good stewards of resources in providing opportunity.

So basically don’t provide a challenge for the most advanced learners. Got it!

Where does this logic end? Should UMD become open enrollment in order to provide opportunities?

The only thing I find persuasive against the magnets is that the academic pressure is too much now because of the escalating competition. I’m not sure how you solve for that - if kids do just as well in a less intense setting then maybe it is important for schools to consider the kids’ overall wellness. But you hear plenty of stories of kids from top public HS fighting the same battles for accomplishments so I am not at all sure that this is unique to the culture of magnets.

K-12 does not serve the same end as higher education, nor does access function in the same way. You cannot compare a public school magnet to a flagship university. And no one has claimed we shouldn’t be challenging the top students. We are arguing about how to allocate resources in a large public school system that needs to provide for all students. UMD has no such obligation.

Yeah only because you are creating arbitrary distinctions though. It used to be that there was no question that the smartest kids in K-12 should get tracked or placed in magnets. In the past decade, this has become anathema for K-12 for a variety of reasons variously (and contradictorily) expressed as concerns with equity, or assertions that kids did not "need" advancement and it was bad for them (that was the SF argument for withholding algebra until 9th grade). Especially with regards to HS, there is no logical distinction between this kind of negative view of selectivity in private school that would not also extend to flagship colleges. What I believe happened is that K-12 education was caputured by dumbsh*ts chasing educational trends with no regard for actually teaching kids. And this extends also to other disastrous choices like "Zoom school," getting rid of textbooks, teaching kids math via computer apps ...

I do believe the smartest kids should get access to an accelerated track. The issue is that they currently don’t. CES and middle school magnets are lottery based. High school magnets have some successes but also some widespread equity issues including geography. I want more many more students to get access to advanced classes and a peer cohort. I’m less concerned about the couple dozen students per year across the entire county that might lose something kind of cool.

2024-2025 School Year:


1. Going from 12 special programs to 30 means we’re going to need many more teachers who are qualified to teach the most advanced classes.

Sure, but you are also going to have a beat to hire those folks. I've had a child in the "most rigorous" magnet (SMCS) and one in a magnet that is already regional (CAP). I can attest that even at the Blair magnet, the 9th and 10th graders are not taking classes that can't be taught by any reasonably qualified teacher in that subject. It's only in 11th and 12th grades that a handful of kids are taking classes that are effectively collegiate level.

The first class of kids at the regional magnets won't begin for two years, and they won't hit the highest level classes for another two. With thousands of laid off scientists around the region, some of whom are retraining though the special Maryland program to fast-track former feds and fed-adjacent folks, I am pretty sure they can scrape together enough teachers between now and four years from now.

As a federal scientist, I can say this with some confidence:

First, it's highly unlikely that most laid-off scientists will join a program to become teachers. The majority will pursue roles in private industry, research institutions, or similar paths. While maybe few will consider this path, that number will be very small. And once the federal hiring freeze ends and agencies begin recruiting again, they will return to federal service.

Second, even though these individuals may be exceptional scientists, that doesn’t necessarily make them effective teachers. Teaching requires a different set of skills and training that many scientists simply don’t have. (of course, Dr. Taylor will disagree. Obvioulsy he thinks whoevery has the certificate can be a good teacher).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need a critical mass of highly able students in the same classroom, a good program, and good teachers for this to be successful. Montgomery county benefited from the national awards won by Blair, Poolesville, and RM students, by increased tax revenue for instance. It is simply not possible to achieve the same level of success with regional programs. There won't be enough interested and capable students to justify the same level of classes at the same number of classes. There won't be enough teachers capable of teaching these classes at the same level they are taught today. For all practical purposes, this is the end of a very successful program. Sad.

Totally agree. It’s just impossible to duplicate those highly successful programs across all six regions. Eventually, the so-called magnet programs in each region will become just regular programs with a few advanced classes.

But I guess no one cares.

People don't care because the few magnets slots are placed in the far eastern part of the county or upper Northwest part of the county. For the vast majority of us, our kids either didn't qualify because we haven't been prepping them since the age of 5 AND/OR we live far away and travel time isn't worth it. What is the plan for middle school magnets? IMO, that is the level where we most need reform.

Middle school magnets are on the chopping block next year. I haven't heard about the gifted and talented programs at the elementary school levels, but it makes sense those will be cancelled after the middle school programs are unwound.

If that means that GT kids will have access to accelerated and enriched programming that is meaningful at local schools that is great. My children have never had lottery luck and have been stuck with sun-par programming at local schools.

You’re delusion if you think this means any improvement for your kids.

Well worth my kids not being served at all
By CES/magnets right now, it won’t be any worse for them.

You need to think about beyond

DP. The status quo is not serving the vast majority of CO-identified students with needs for acceleration, especially in secondary.

The reforms won’t help them. And if the students cannot benefit from the AP programs they already have - what makes you think a regional magnet will be better

Why won't the reforms help them? My kid isn't in H$ yet but my understanding is that there is currently little to no acceleration or enrichment in 9th or 10th except math, whereas the programs will cover all of high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need a critical mass of highly able students in the same classroom, a good program, and good teachers for this to be successful. Montgomery county benefited from the national awards won by Blair, Poolesville, and RM students, by increased tax revenue for instance. It is simply not possible to achieve the same level of success with regional programs. There won't be enough interested and capable students to justify the same level of classes at the same number of classes. There won't be enough teachers capable of teaching these classes at the same level they are taught today. For all practical purposes, this is the end of a very successful program. Sad.

Totally agree. It’s just impossible to duplicate those highly successful programs across all six regions. Eventually, the so-called magnet programs in each region will become just regular programs with a few advanced classes.

But I guess no one cares.

People don't care because the few magnets slots are placed in the far eastern part of the county or upper Northwest part of the county. For the vast majority of us, our kids either didn't qualify because we haven't been prepping them since the age of 5 AND/OR we live far away and travel time isn't worth it. What is the plan for middle school magnets? IMO, that is the level where we most need reform.

Middle school magnets are on the chopping block next year. I haven't heard about the gifted and talented programs at the elementary school levels, but it makes sense those will be cancelled after the middle school programs are unwound.

If that means that GT kids will have access to accelerated and enriched programming that is meaningful at local schools that is great. My children have never had lottery luck and have been stuck with sun-par programming at local schools.

You’re delusion if you think this means any improvement for your kids.

Well worth my kids not being served at all
By CES/magnets right now, it won’t be any worse for them.

You need to think about beyond

DP. The status quo is not serving the vast majority of CO-identified students with needs for acceleration, especially in secondary.

The reforms won’t help them. And if the students cannot benefit from the AP programs they already have - what makes you think a regional magnet will be better

Why won't the reforms help them? My kid isn't in H$ yet but my understanding is that there is currently little to no acceleration or enrichment in 9th or 10th except math, whereas the programs will cover all of high school.

Would the special programs, other than the IB one, actually offer a higher-level Grade 9/10 English class, for example?

I think the first priortiy before new magnets would be to offer multiple levels for English in grade 9/10 at every school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I appreciate the perspective of the current student, but listen to those of us with experience outside specialized schools. You would still have your string peer group because you would be taking the same classes for your specialized program. Possibly some of your electives might be integrated with “regular” kids, but it’s an important life skill for you to learn. You will not live your adult life surrounded by peers with your same level of intelligence, motivation, and access.

My own experience at a HS in a different state with 3,000 students, 555 in my graduating class. Our grade had a cohort of kids on advanced tracks and we were need up with almost all of our classes together for 4 years because we were the only students eligible for those advanced courses.

MCPS doesn't have a TJ or Stuy.
The countywide programs already have electives and even core courses shared with the host school.

Regardless, people who have never seen a specialized countywide program for don't understand the value it provides for the students who would be bored in the "advanced" courses.

When we were young, students who didn't have access to such programs would graduate high school early or Dual Enroll at a university, and have to find a gap year program or deal with the social challenge of being a year or more younger than their classmates.

And that’s what will happen again. For the regular advanced kids there are already many options - there is a wealth of AP classes, more IB spots than demand, the CAP program, Project Lead the Way, early college, dual enrollment. SO MANY options, not all well used. Any motivated advanced student can build a path through high school that meets their needs. But for the very highly motivated and extremely high achieving, Blair is the offering with the track record of meeting their needs. For a very small number of kids who need it. It is extremely short sighted to take this away.

A) Blair isn’t going away it’s catchment area is changing
B) If it’s for a very small number of kids then it actually makes sense if it does go away and instead funnel those kids to their next stage at university. The county has to be good stewards of resources in providing opportunity.

So basically don’t provide a challenge for the most advanced learners. Got it!

Where does this logic end? Should UMD become open enrollment in order to provide opportunities?

The only thing I find persuasive against the magnets is that the academic pressure is too much now because of the escalating competition. I’m not sure how you solve for that - if kids do just as well in a less intense setting then maybe it is important for schools to consider the kids’ overall wellness. But you hear plenty of stories of kids from top public HS fighting the same battles for accomplishments so I am not at all sure that this is unique to the culture of magnets.

K-12 does not serve the same end as higher education, nor does access function in the same way. You cannot compare a public school magnet to a flagship university. And no one has claimed we shouldn’t be challenging the top students. We are arguing about how to allocate resources in a large public school system that needs to provide for all students. UMD has no such obligation.

Yeah only because you are creating arbitrary distinctions though. It used to be that there was no question that the smartest kids in K-12 should get tracked or placed in magnets. In the past decade, this has become anathema for K-12 for a variety of reasons variously (and contradictorily) expressed as concerns with equity, or assertions that kids did not "need" advancement and it was bad for them (that was the SF argument for withholding algebra until 9th grade). Especially with regards to HS, there is no logical distinction between this kind of negative view of selectivity in private school that would not also extend to flagship colleges. What I believe happened is that K-12 education was caputured by dumbsh*ts chasing educational trends with no regard for actually teaching kids. And this extends also to other disastrous choices like "Zoom school," getting rid of textbooks, teaching kids math via computer apps ...

I do believe the smartest kids should get access to an accelerated track. The issue is that they currently don’t. CES and middle school magnets are lottery based. High school magnets have some successes but also some widespread equity issues including geography. I want more many more students to get access to advanced classes and a peer cohort. I’m less concerned about the couple dozen students per year across the entire county that might lose something kind of cool.

2024-2025 School Year:


1. Going from 12 special programs to 30 means we’re going to need many more teachers who are qualified to teach the most advanced classes.

Sure, but you are also going to have a beat to hire those folks. I've had a child in the "most rigorous" magnet (SMCS) and one in a magnet that is already regional (CAP). I can attest that even at the Blair magnet, the 9th and 10th graders are not taking classes that can't be taught by any reasonably qualified teacher in that subject. It's only in 11th and 12th grades that a handful of kids are taking classes that are effectively collegiate level.

The first class of kids at the regional magnets won't begin for two years, and they won't hit the highest level classes for another two. With thousands of laid off scientists around the region, some of whom are retraining though the special Maryland program to fast-track former feds and fed-adjacent folks, I am pretty sure they can scrape together enough teachers between now and four years from now.

As a federal scientist, I can say this with some confidence:

First, it's highly unlikely that most laid-off scientists will join a program to become teachers. The majority will pursue roles in private industry, research institutions, or similar paths. While maybe few will consider this path, that number will be very small. And once the federal hiring freeze ends and agencies begin recruiting again, they will return to federal service.

Second, even though these individuals may be exceptional scientists, that doesn’t necessarily make them effective teachers. Teaching requires a different set of skills and training that many scientists simply don’t have. (of course, Dr. Taylor will disagree. Obvioulsy he thinks whoevery has the certificate can be a good teacher).

+1 the bolded part of PP’s statement made me chuckle. Totally clueless poster.

- another fed

[Anonymous]

Let me reiterate it again. SMACS curriculum does not provide any AP courses. For college application, either the feeder university knows this program from decades of good experience with the student's high competence from this program, or students in this program spend their own time to self-study AP curriculum and pass a dozen or more AP tests by themselves.

It will take at least a decade or so to build the reputation for a new program to any possible future feeder universities. Or if taking the second route, how many students are willing and capable of doing so on top of other ECs?