Asian American student with 1590 SAT score blames affirmative action for rejections from 6 colleges

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Test scores alone are not highly indicative of a successful future college student. It makes no sense to force a college to admit students based on this criteria. I don’t know why we put so much weight upon them. All they really do is generically show relative strengths and weaknesses among high schools.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/02/19/study-finds-little-difference-academic-success-students-who-do-and-dont-submit-sat#:~:text=The%20study%20confirms%20that%20high,who%20will%20succeed%20in%20college.%22

I keep seeing this claim made but there are decades of research studies on this topic and many show that SAT scores are a very strong predictor of not only college grades but future career success as well.

+1 which is why MIT went back to requiring SAT scores.

MIT is only ONE T25 school. Georgetown still requires the SAT since it's not in the common app.

How about HYPS and the other 1,800+ who are test optional? How about the SAT/ACT going digital to even stay relevant?

I think you've missed the test optional trend. Get used to it. It is here to stay.

It is here to stay because more and more schools want to increase DEI. Getting rid of SAT scores is one way to do that. Why not just get rid of GPAs since there is so much grade inflation and grading is als
o pretty subjective?

GPA - and rigor- over 4 years is a better indicator of college success (at least freshman year) than one 3-hour test.

The AOs know this.

The AOs are failures in life. If they weren't, they wouldn't be stuck in an admissions office. They have low level degrees in xyz studies type areas and have their own personal social agendas to fulfill. I know this because I have the misfortune of interacting with many of them. Professors are not happy about the trajectory of admissions decisions over the past decade

The distain for people who work in education across this forum is so sad. If these failures are picking the classes, why would you want to be part of them? They suck at life, but somehow are able to put together talented cohorts year after year?

That was my point. And I "work in education." These people are putting together less and less talented cohorts every year. We have taken them to task on it numerous times but even tenured faculty cannot truly fight the beast of administrative bloat

The admissions department at my university does not talk to anyone involved in teaching or research; T/R faculty are never consulted on admissions decisions or policies. The only time we interact with them is if they override our room reservation requests on "admissions weekends." I somewhat agree with the "failures in life" comment earlier, just based on first impressions. I'm horrified to think my own child's future might be decided by those people.

That's funny because those events always have faculty panels and faculty socializing with the visitors. I'm SO surprised they don't ask you to join those events in light of your wonderful attitude!

+1 How can someone be a 'failure in life' if they love what they're doing, and how can anyone claim to be a success in life if they have such a miserable, judgmental opinion of others?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Race has been an issue in the US for hundreds of years.

For those of you who moved here for the quality of education, but are now trying to make the US more like the system you left behind....pick your poison.

+1000

If the system "sucks so much" why do so many strive to attend both undergrad and graduate programs in the USA? Don't like our system, you are free to not participate and go elsewhere.

And yes, I support diversifying our schools. So if School Y wants to take a hispanic, low income student from Rural area over my white/asian kid with the "same profile" I am okay with that. I also don't need to claim that my kid is better than that kid---that kid likely has tons to offer the school that my kid cannot.
My kid will excel no matter where they are, they have tons of privileges due to being white and having parents who are 1percenters with connections. That kid will benefit 1000 times more than my kid from attending Harvard/Yale/Stanford. It will change their trajectory in life. My kid, not so much, as they are already on a pretty fantastic trajectory already.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know...I look at my kids' high school instagram page over the past few years and the majority of kids who are attending Ivy Leagues are Asians. It's not even close.

+1 But there are limited slots and they are competing against each other. Sometimes a 1500 SAT scorer will be admitted and a 1600 SAT scorer won't. The 1500 scorer has something else in their file that's more desirable, as frustrating as that may seem to the 1600 scorer. AOs are looking holistically at accomplishments, diversity in majors, citizenship etc. They might simply need a trumpet player or be drawn to someone who is committed to public health vs. yet another engineering or cs major. It is a far more complex, nuanced process than mere test scores would suggest.I agree with the PPs who've said changing affirmative action policy won't change outcomes to the degree they anticipate, maybe not much at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Test scores alone are not highly indicative of a successful future college student. It makes no sense to force a college to admit students based on this criteria. I don’t know why we put so much weight upon them. All they really do is generically show relative strengths and weaknesses among high schools.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/02/19/study-finds-little-difference-academic-success-students-who-do-and-dont-submit-sat#:~:text=The%20study%20confirms%20that%20high,who%20will%20succeed%20in%20college.%22

I keep seeing this claim made but there are decades of research studies on this topic and many show that SAT scores are a very strong predictor of not only college grades but future career success as well.

+1 which is why MIT went back to requiring SAT scores.

MIT is only ONE T25 school. Georgetown still requires the SAT since it's not in the common app.

How about HYPS and the other 1,800+ who are test optional? How about the SAT/ACT going digital to even stay relevant?

I think you've missed the test optional trend. Get used to it. It is here to stay.

It is here to stay because more and more schools want to increase DEI. Getting rid of SAT scores is one way to do that. Why not just get rid of GPAs since there is so much grade inflation and grading is als
o pretty subjective?

GPA - and rigor- over 4 years is a better indicator of college success (at least freshman year) than one 3-hour test.

The AOs know this.

The AOs are failures in life. If they weren't, they wouldn't be stuck in an admissions office. They have low level degrees in xyz studies type areas and have their own personal social agendas to fulfill. I know this because I have the misfortune of interacting with many of them. Professors are not happy about the trajectory of admissions decisions over the past decade

The distain for people who work in education across this forum is so sad. If these failures are picking the classes, why would you want to be part of them? They suck at life, but somehow are able to put together talented cohorts year after year?

That was my point. And I "work in education." These people are putting together less and less talented cohorts every year. We have taken them to task on it numerous times but even tenured faculty cannot truly fight the beast of administrative bloat

If you think the AOs are driving, you aren't a faculty member who knows how a university works.

It'd be great if I could stop being accused of not being a faculty member. I will be sure to notify the university to revoke my tenure

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Race has been an issue in the US for hundreds of years.

For those of you who moved here for the quality of education, but are now trying to make the US more like the system you left behind....pick your poison.

+1000

If the system "sucks so much" why do so many strive to attend both undergrad and graduate programs in the USA? Don't like our system, you are free to not participate and go elsewhere.

And yes, I support diversifying our schools. So if School Y wants to take a hispanic, low income student from Rural area over my white/asian kid with the "same profile" I am okay with that. I also don't need to claim that my kid is better than that kid---that kid likely has tons to offer the school that my kid cannot.
My kid will excel no matter where they are, they have tons of privileges due to being white and having parents who are 1percenters with connections. That kid will benefit 1000 times more than my kid from attending Harvard/Yale/Stanford. It will change their trajectory in life. My kid, not so much, as they are already on a pretty fantastic trajectory already.

+1

Plus, no one is “owed” or guaranteed anything, on ANY continent.

What if I went to China, scored in the highest percent, then moaned about not getting into their top school/s?

GMAB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:As someone with a PhD from the Ivy League who taught the undergrads, I can assure all the people saying this guy is a dime a dozen are mistaken. There are so many morons who slip through the cracks of the Ivy League admissions system that it's shocking. I think about 10% of folks in classes I taught probably shouldn't have been in college at all. Others were ver mid, reminiscent of a typical state school student. The fact this guy got rejected by so many schools is entirely indicative of anti Asian racism imo

There are tons of students that have these stats who get rejected - not just Asian. I know a handful, myself. I would imagine those like me also know a (different) handful. It is not as "uncommon" as you would like to believe. Same as it is not "uncommon" to have advanced degree/s from ivy/MIT/top universities in this geographical area (and a few other geographical areas). Just as so many on DCUM are "professors" (usually adjunct) - also a dime a dozen. It has nothing to do with being Asian, but it is a hot topic right now, so someone is trying to draw attention to it.

American Universities have a specific mission to NOT contain one ethnicity of student. In fact, we fought more than one war over this same type of thing. Just drop it.

Well I am not an adjunct. I am a tenured professor at a top 50 research university. And my point was that the insane push toward ethnic diversity and diversity of other types has to a large extent pushed great students out of our schools. At no point in my post did I say it is NOT common for someone of this kid's stats to get rejected. If you read what I wrote, I said he is not a dime a dozen compared to students who get ADMITTED. The students who are admitted include a very large group idiots. If you don't think rejecting highly intelligent people and admitting idiots is a problem, then I don't think I'm interested in talking with you

NP--No top 50 research university is admitting idiots. They may be admitting some very smart students who aren't super interested in learning or who have addictions or mental health issues that keep them from showing you their potential, but they're not idiots.

Yes, they are.

You'd be surprised how dumb kids are at top universities. I literally had to teach them as a TA while my spouse was an administrator for the same uni.

Kids so stupid they were incapable of setting up a bank account to collect their paychecks for campus work. Kids so stupid they couldn't do something as basic as submit hw in on time. Kids so stupid they literally did not even know what DNA does by junior or senior year in a biomedical related program. Kids so stupid at math they they were complete and abject failures at doing simple calculations for doing things like making solutions, or for figuring out concentrations. So many kids at supposedly a top university struggling to do basic scientific notation and work with scientific units. Yet when it came to test time they were OK because they could memorize answers.

There are a lot of dumb kids at top US universities. If you try to throw the a curveball on an exam for a question that requires actual critical thinking and for them to actually apply the knowledge they've supposedly learned to a problem they've never seen before, they meltdown, bomb, then all whine about the exam being too hard and the exam questions not being taught in class. Zero critical thinking and problem solving skills these days. Whether or not it is because they're admitting based on diversity rather than scholastic aptitude, I don't know, but the quality of students at top US university is often shockingly bad.

These sound like heavily prepped kids who can’t figure things out on their own. They’ve been spoon fed the questions and answers to memorize so as to give the appearance of being smart. When a situation deviates from what they have prepped for, they are at a loss.

My spouse once encountered a student so stupid they called up the administration office to complain about the fact they they weren't getting paid for their campus work and could no longer afford food/rent.

What happened?

Fursr, this student was so stupid she couldn't figure out how to put on her big girl adult pants and setup a bank account for direct deposit.

Ok, NBD, the checks were mailed to her listed address for physical delivery. Strike number 2. The student was so stupid she took zero responsibilities about updating her address after she moved. All you need to do to change your address is simply update your student profile online, which takes 3 minutes. So of course she's not getting her checks when they keep getting returned because no one knows where the hells she lived.

This student was also so stupid, that despite not getting paid for many weeks, she took zero initiative to investigate the problem with the employment office. Not even a single friggin' phone call. It wasn't until she was in crisis mode facing starvation and homelessness that it dawned on her that she might need to contact the student employment office to see what's up with her paychecks. Of course the predictable happened where rocket genius student too stupid to setup direct deposit btiched out staff about her current predicament.


Yes, this was at a top 10 university, btw. They let in a lot of dumb people these days.

What a weird anecdote. Obviously there is a vast difference between being book smart and "life smart." Some of these kids are so helicoptered to death they can't function on their own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This year an Asian-American boy who was a USAMO camper was rejected by not only MIT but also CMU. Most DCUMs don’t know what USAMO camp is. It’s a pool of 250-300 best math students in the US competing for a spot on the USA Math Olympic Team. There are only 6 students on the national team. Then they compete against other countries in the Intl Math Olympiad. In the past, making USAMO cam was a guaranteed ticket to MIT. Not anymore. Especially if you are an Asian boy.

No student is owed admission to any college, regardless of their accomplishments.

+1000
This is what so many entitled do not get. MIT is a Highly rejective school. 90%+ of their applicants are all "highly qualified" in their own rights for admission. Yet there are not spaces for everyone, so many "highly qualified" students will be rejected/WL. Simple math--perhaps these parents should ask their MIT qualified applicants to explain statistics to them.

If your kid is so smart and qualified, they will do well anywhere and should easily get into most schools in the 25-50 range. So pick several, find the best fit and set them on their way to success. Stop complaining you didn't win the lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Test scores alone are not highly indicative of a successful future college student. It makes no sense to force a college to admit students based on this criteria. I don’t know why we put so much weight upon them. All they really do is generically show relative strengths and weaknesses among high schools.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/02/19/study-finds-little-difference-academic-success-students-who-do-and-dont-submit-sat#:~:text=The%20study%20confirms%20that%20high,who%20will%20succeed%20in%20college.%22

I keep seeing this claim made but there are decades of research studies on this topic and many show that SAT scores are a very strong predictor of not only college grades but future career success as well.

+1 which is why MIT went back to requiring SAT scores.

MIT is only ONE T25 school. Georgetown still requires the SAT since it's not in the common app.

How about HYPS and the other 1,800+ who are test optional? How about the SAT/ACT going digital to even stay relevant?

I think you've missed the test optional trend. Get used to it. It is here to stay.

It is here to stay because more and more schools want to increase DEI. Getting rid of SAT scores is one way to do that. Why not just get rid of GPAs since there is so much grade inflation and grading is als
o pretty subjective?

GPA - and rigor- over 4 years is a better indicator of college success (at least freshman year) than one 3-hour test.

The AOs know this.

The AOs are failures in life. If they weren't, they wouldn't be stuck in an admissions office. They have low level degrees in xyz studies type areas and have their own personal social agendas to fulfill. I know this because I have the misfortune of interacting with many of them. Professors are not happy about the trajectory of admissions decisions over the past decade

The distain for people who work in education across this forum is so sad. If these failures are picking the classes, why would you want to be part of them? They suck at life, but somehow are able to put together talented cohorts year after year?

That was my point. And I "work in education." These people are putting together less and less talented cohorts every year. We have taken them to task on it numerous times but even tenured faculty cannot truly fight the beast of administrative bloat

If you think the AOs are driving, you aren't a faculty member who knows how a university works.

It'd be great if I could stop being accused of not being a faculty member. I will be sure to notify the university to revoke my tenure

We'll be happy to help you in that effort. Pompous condescension is so 20th century.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This year an Asian-American boy who was a USAMO camper was rejected by not only MIT but also CMU. Most DCUMs don’t know what USAMO camp is. It’s a pool of 250-300 best math students in the US competing for a spot on the USA Math Olympic Team. There are only 6 students on the national team. Then they compete against other countries in the Intl Math Olympiad. In the past, making USAMO cam was a guaranteed ticket to MIT. Not anymore. Especially if you are an Asian boy.

No student is owed admission to any college, regardless of their accomplishments.

+1000
This is what so many entitled do not get. MIT is a Highly rejective school. 90%+ of their applicants are all "highly qualified" in their own rights for admission. Yet there are not spaces for everyone, so many "highly qualified" students will be rejected/WL. Simple math--perhaps these parents should ask their MIT qualified applicants to explain statistics to them.

If your kid is so smart and qualified, they will do well anywhere and should easily get into most schools in the 25-50 range. So pick several, find the best fit and set them on their way to success. Stop complaining you didn't win the lottery.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Race has been an issue in the US for hundreds of years.

For those of you who moved here for the quality of education, but are now trying to make the US more like the system you left behind....pick your poison.

+1000

If the system "sucks so much" why do so many strive to attend both undergrad and graduate programs in the USA? Don't like our system, you are free to not participate and go elsewhere.

And yes, I support diversifying our schools. So if School Y wants to take a hispanic, low income student from Rural area over my white/asian kid with the "same profile" I am okay with that. I also don't need to claim that my kid is better than that kid---that kid likely has tons to offer the school that my kid cannot.
My kid will excel no matter where they are, they have tons of privileges due to being white and having parents who are 1percenters with connections. That kid will benefit 1000 times more than my kid from attending Harvard/Yale/Stanford. It will change their trajectory in life. My kid, not so much, as they are already on a pretty fantastic trajectory already.

+1

Plus, no one is “owed” or guaranteed anything, on ANY continent.

What if I went to China, scored in the highest percent, then moaned about not getting into their top school/s?

GMAB.

There are different rules for citizens and internationals.
Did you become a Chinese citizen? then you should protest and seek justice.

[Anonymous]

This isn’t China. The government does not tell schools what to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Race has been an issue in the US for hundreds of years.

For those of you who moved here for the quality of education, but are now trying to make the US more like the system you left behind....pick your poison.

+1000

If the system "sucks so much" why do so many strive to attend both undergrad and graduate programs in the USA? Don't like our system, you are free to not participate and go elsewhere.

And yes, I support diversifying our schools. So if School Y wants to take a hispanic, low income student from Rural area over my white/asian kid with the "same profile" I am okay with that. I also don't need to claim that my kid is better than that kid---that kid likely has tons to offer the school that my kid cannot.
My kid will excel no matter where they are, they have tons of privileges due to being white and having parents who are 1percenters with connections. That kid will benefit 1000 times more than my kid from attending Harvard/Yale/Stanford. It will change their trajectory in life. My kid, not so much, as they are already on a pretty fantastic trajectory already.

+1

Plus, no one is “owed” or guaranteed anything, on ANY continent.

What if I went to China, scored in the highest percent, then moaned about not getting into their top school/s?

GMAB.

There are different rules for citizens and internationals.
Did you become a Chinese citizen? then you should protest and seek justice.

.

This isn’t China. Have you noticed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This isn’t China. The government does not tell schools what to do.

if they don't receive any aid from the government (local and federal).

I wonder which schools(s) will forfeit all the aid and support, and go its way after the Supreme Court decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Race has been an issue in the US for hundreds of years.

For those of you who moved here for the quality of education, but are now trying to make the US more like the system you left behind....pick your poison.

+1000

If the system "sucks so much" why do so many strive to attend both undergrad and graduate programs in the USA? Don't like our system, you are free to not participate and go elsewhere.

And yes, I support diversifying our schools. So if School Y wants to take a hispanic, low income student from Rural area over my white/asian kid with the "same profile" I am okay with that. I also don't need to claim that my kid is better than that kid---that kid likely has tons to offer the school that my kid cannot.
My kid will excel no matter where they are, they have tons of privileges due to being white and having parents who are 1percenters with connections. That kid will benefit 1000 times more than my kid from attending Harvard/Yale/Stanford. It will change their trajectory in life. My kid, not so much, as they are already on a pretty fantastic trajectory already.

+1

Plus, no one is “owed” or guaranteed anything, on ANY continent.

What if I went to China, scored in the highest percent, then moaned about not getting into their top school/s?

GMAB.

There are different rules for citizens and internationals.
Did you become a Chinese citizen? then you should protest and seek justice.

.

This isn’t China. Have you noticed?

This is the U.S.
U.S. citizens should protest and seek justice if there was violation.

Same everywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This year an Asian-American boy who was a USAMO camper was rejected by not only MIT but also CMU. Most DCUMs don’t know what USAMO camp is. It’s a pool of 250-300 best math students in the US competing for a spot on the USA Math Olympic Team. There are only 6 students on the national team. Then they compete against other countries in the Intl Math Olympiad. In the past, making USAMO cam was a guaranteed ticket to MIT. Not anymore. Especially if you are an Asian boy.

No student is owed admission to any college, regardless of their accomplishments.

No student should be owed admission to any college because of their race either.

And that does NOT happen. It is Harvards choice to build their freshman class the way they want. If you want a freshman class of all Asians, then I suggest you head to India or China and you can be happy. But if Harvard wants to have more Hispanics/Blacks/etc to bring more diversity to their campus, so be it.

What most of you do not care to appreciate is that the lower income (many times non-white/non-asian) student who achieves a 1500 and takes 3 APs because that is all their HS offers and overcomes being in a K-12 education system where most in their schools do not make it/even graduate let alone go to a 4 year college, is likely just as smart if not smarter than the privileged white/asian/whatever race student who grew up in a 1% household and never had any wants let alone any "needs". The first kid has had to overcome so much to get to that "1500" so yes it is impressive and top schools want kids like that who will go far. They do not just want to be a repository for elite/1%ers.