White women try to "reclaim power" through #vanillagirl and #cleangirl beauty posts??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I do not think the ideas in this interview are racism. I do think they are wrongheaded and a massive rhetorical stretch. I also think it's part of a broader trend of blaming white women, and especially white women with the least amount of actual power (young women trying to make a buck on Instagram, middle aged moms) instead of the white women who have actually ascended to positions of real power and authority. Easier to complain about the soft power of some Instagram influencer than to talk about how some of the white women at high levels in the media or corporate world perpetuate white supremacy. Always easiest to criticize someone who will never, ever be able to offer you a job.

Also, if you've listened to the interview but haven't read Steffi Cao's essay that prompted NPR to invite her on, I recommend reading it. The tone of the interview makes her argument seem gentler than it is. Her essay is vitriolic in a way that really bothered me. Just the absolute disdain she has for her subject. I've read plenty of smart and valid criticisms of white women that have made me think and examine my own role in white supremacy. This wasn't one of them.

Oh for God’s sake. The ultimate critique all of this coverage drives at is of how white women, when we have our interest in whiteness catered to in this way, ultimately do at the ballot box. We are unreliable allies at best—and that is absolutely generalizable across differential levels of “real power and authority” among white women.

Agree that some white women vote along race and class lines, and I'm with you in feeling disgusted about that. But contrary to what you say, the MAGA women weren't allies in the first place.

But how on earth do makeup, clothing, and manicure choices "cater to whiteness"? Women of every race and color are following trends that work for them in terms of comfort etc. It's just math that some racial groups are a larger share of the population so they get more exposure on TicToc. Your statement that certain beauty trends should be abhorred because they "cater to whiteness" is as dumb as a lot of the associations in the article itself.

white college educated women are overwhelmingly liberal/democratic.

DP. 59% of college-educated white women voters went for Biden. I wouldn't call that "overwhelmingly liberal."

A lot of posters are taking these commentaries super personally without looking at their peers. Yes, not all white women behave any particular way, but you have to see that concerns from POC can arise because of the actions of a large enough minority.

Because we wear minimal makeup and oval nails, we aren’t MAGA, and we simply can’t understand how these make us avatars of white racism. Please explain.

If the emotional impact of your minimum makeup and oval nails weren’t linked to anything more, you wouldn’t be going nuts demanding explanations of other people’s views of those things. You’d just do them and be comfortable with it. Clearly that’s not what is happening here. See above.

Once more with feeling: please explain the “emotional impact” of my mascara and manicure choices, or of a coastal grandma, on POC. While you’re at it, please explain why POC can’t adopt these same trends.

This is a forum dedicated to middle-aged women. Your surprise at the pushback seems a little naive. But yeah, I’m tired of being Karened and I’m not going to let you tell me what to wear.

IDK what the emotional impact of your makeup is to you personally; I just know that something about the "#vanillagirl" or "#cleangirl" look seems to be very important to white women here on DCUM. That's why this thread is this long.

I'm not surprised at the pushback, either. You may be confusing me with another poster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not think the ideas in this interview are racism. I do think they are wrongheaded and a massive rhetorical stretch. I also think it's part of a broader trend of blaming white women, and especially white women with the least amount of actual power (young women trying to make a buck on Instagram, middle aged moms) instead of the white women who have actually ascended to positions of real power and authority. Easier to complain about the soft power of some Instagram influencer than to talk about how some of the white women at high levels in the media or corporate world perpetuate white supremacy. Always easiest to criticize someone who will never, ever be able to offer you a job.

Also, if you've listened to the interview but haven't read Steffi Cao's essay that prompted NPR to invite her on, I recommend reading it. The tone of the interview makes her argument seem gentler than it is. Her essay is vitriolic in a way that really bothered me. Just the absolute disdain she has for her subject. I've read plenty of smart and valid criticisms of white women that have made me think and examine my own role in white supremacy. This wasn't one of them.

Oh for God’s sake. The ultimate critique all of this coverage drives at is of how white women, when we have our interest in whiteness catered to in this way, ultimately do at the ballot box. We are unreliable allies at best—and that is absolutely generalizable across differential levels of “real power and authority” among white women.

Agree that some white women vote along race and class lines, and I'm with you in feeling disgusted about that. But contrary to what you say, the MAGA women weren't allies in the first place.

But how on earth do makeup, clothing, and manicure choices "cater to whiteness"? Women of every race and color are following trends that work for them in terms of comfort etc. It's just math that some racial groups are a larger share of the population so they get more exposure on TicToc. Your statement that certain beauty trends should be abhorred because they "cater to whiteness" is as dumb as a lot of the associations in the article itself.

white college educated women are overwhelmingly liberal/democratic.

DP. 59% of college-educated white women voters went for Biden. I wouldn't call that "overwhelmingly liberal."

A lot of posters are taking these commentaries super personally without looking at their peers. Yes, not all white women behave any particular way, but you have to see that concerns from POC can arise because of the actions of a large enough minority.

Because we wear minimal makeup and oval nails, we aren’t MAGA, and we simply can’t understand how these make us avatars of white racism. Please explain.

If the emotional impact of your minimum makeup and oval nails weren’t linked to anything more, you wouldn’t be going nuts demanding explanations of other people’s views of those things. You’d just do them and be comfortable with it. Clearly that’s not what is happening here. See above.

Once more with feeling: please explain the “emotional impact” of my mascara and manicure choices, or of a coastal grandma, on POC. While you’re at it, please explain why POC can’t adopt these same trends.

This is a forum dedicated to middle-aged women. Your surprise at the pushback seems a little naive. But yeah, I’m tired of being Karened and I’m not going to let you tell me what to wear.

IDK what the emotional impact of your makeup is to you personally; I just know that something about the "#vanillagirl" or "#cleangirl" look seems to be very important to white women here on DCUM. That's why this thread is this long.

I'm not surprised at the pushback, either. You may be confusing me with another poster.

On the contrary, people are tired of such trivial, meaningless things being considered racist plots. This is especially true because we've heard for years that white people should avoid any trend that originated in communities of color. Now we are being told that we also cannot have own fashion. We should just hide in our houses, ashamed, reading White Fragility and donating to NPR.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not think the ideas in this interview are racism. I do think they are wrongheaded and a massive rhetorical stretch. I also think it's part of a broader trend of blaming white women, and especially white women with the least amount of actual power (young women trying to make a buck on Instagram, middle aged moms) instead of the white women who have actually ascended to positions of real power and authority. Easier to complain about the soft power of some Instagram influencer than to talk about how some of the white women at high levels in the media or corporate world perpetuate white supremacy. Always easiest to criticize someone who will never, ever be able to offer you a job.

Also, if you've listened to the interview but haven't read Steffi Cao's essay that prompted NPR to invite her on, I recommend reading it. The tone of the interview makes her argument seem gentler than it is. Her essay is vitriolic in a way that really bothered me. Just the absolute disdain she has for her subject. I've read plenty of smart and valid criticisms of white women that have made me think and examine my own role in white supremacy. This wasn't one of them.

Oh for God’s sake. The ultimate critique all of this coverage drives at is of how white women, when we have our interest in whiteness catered to in this way, ultimately do at the ballot box. We are unreliable allies at best—and that is absolutely generalizable across differential levels of “real power and authority” among white women.

Agree that some white women vote along race and class lines, and I'm with you in feeling disgusted about that. But contrary to what you say, the MAGA women weren't allies in the first place.

But how on earth do makeup, clothing, and manicure choices "cater to whiteness"? Women of every race and color are following trends that work for them in terms of comfort etc. It's just math that some racial groups are a larger share of the population so they get more exposure on TicToc. Your statement that certain beauty trends should be abhorred because they "cater to whiteness" is as dumb as a lot of the associations in the article itself.

white college educated women are overwhelmingly liberal/democratic.

DP. 59% of college-educated white women voters went for Biden. I wouldn't call that "overwhelmingly liberal."

A lot of posters are taking these commentaries super personally without looking at their peers. Yes, not all white women behave any particular way, but you have to see that concerns from POC can arise because of the actions of a large enough minority.

Because we wear minimal makeup and oval nails, we aren’t MAGA, and we simply can’t understand how these make us avatars of white racism. Please explain.

If the emotional impact of your minimum makeup and oval nails weren’t linked to anything more, you wouldn’t be going nuts demanding explanations of other people’s views of those things. You’d just do them and be comfortable with it. Clearly that’s not what is happening here. See above.

Once more with feeling: please explain the “emotional impact” of my mascara and manicure choices, or of a coastal grandma, on POC. While you’re at it, please explain why POC can’t adopt these same trends.

This is a forum dedicated to middle-aged women. Your surprise at the pushback seems a little naive. But yeah, I’m tired of being Karened and I’m not going to let you tell me what to wear.

IDK what the emotional impact of your makeup is to you personally; I just know that something about the "#vanillagirl" or "#cleangirl" look seems to be very important to white women here on DCUM. That's why this thread is this long.

I'm not surprised at the pushback, either. You may be confusing me with another poster.

On the contrary, people are tired of such trivial, meaningless things being considered racist plots. This is especially true because we've heard for years that white people should avoid any trend that originated in communities of color. Now we are being told that we also cannot have own fashion. We should just hide in our houses, ashamed, reading White Fragility and donating to NPR.

Having this level of heat behind response to a double-blinded accusation of “racist plot” is meaningful, and not just about makeup. It sounds like even you concede this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not think the ideas in this interview are racism. I do think they are wrongheaded and a massive rhetorical stretch. I also think it's part of a broader trend of blaming white women, and especially white women with the least amount of actual power (young women trying to make a buck on Instagram, middle aged moms) instead of the white women who have actually ascended to positions of real power and authority. Easier to complain about the soft power of some Instagram influencer than to talk about how some of the white women at high levels in the media or corporate world perpetuate white supremacy. Always easiest to criticize someone who will never, ever be able to offer you a job.

Also, if you've listened to the interview but haven't read Steffi Cao's essay that prompted NPR to invite her on, I recommend reading it. The tone of the interview makes her argument seem gentler than it is. Her essay is vitriolic in a way that really bothered me. Just the absolute disdain she has for her subject. I've read plenty of smart and valid criticisms of white women that have made me think and examine my own role in white supremacy. This wasn't one of them.

Oh for God’s sake. The ultimate critique all of this coverage drives at is of how white women, when we have our interest in whiteness catered to in this way, ultimately do at the ballot box. We are unreliable allies at best—and that is absolutely generalizable across differential levels of “real power and authority” among white women.

Agree that some white women vote along race and class lines, and I'm with you in feeling disgusted about that. But contrary to what you say, the MAGA women weren't allies in the first place.

But how on earth do makeup, clothing, and manicure choices "cater to whiteness"? Women of every race and color are following trends that work for them in terms of comfort etc. It's just math that some racial groups are a larger share of the population so they get more exposure on TicToc. Your statement that certain beauty trends should be abhorred because they "cater to whiteness" is as dumb as a lot of the associations in the article itself.

white college educated women are overwhelmingly liberal/democratic.

DP. 59% of college-educated white women voters went for Biden. I wouldn't call that "overwhelmingly liberal."

A lot of posters are taking these commentaries super personally without looking at their peers. Yes, not all white women behave any particular way, but you have to see that concerns from POC can arise because of the actions of a large enough minority.

Because we wear minimal makeup and oval nails, we aren’t MAGA, and we simply can’t understand how these make us avatars of white racism. Please explain.

If the emotional impact of your minimum makeup and oval nails weren’t linked to anything more, you wouldn’t be going nuts demanding explanations of other people’s views of those things. You’d just do them and be comfortable with it. Clearly that’s not what is happening here. See above.

Once more with feeling: please explain the “emotional impact” of my mascara and manicure choices, or of a coastal grandma, on POC. While you’re at it, please explain why POC can’t adopt these same trends.

This is a forum dedicated to middle-aged women. Your surprise at the pushback seems a little naive. But yeah, I’m tired of being Karened and I’m not going to let you tell me what to wear.

IDK what the emotional impact of your makeup is to you personally; I just know that something about the "#vanillagirl" or "#cleangirl" look seems to be very important to white women here on DCUM. That's why this thread is this long.

I'm not surprised at the pushback, either. You may be confusing me with another poster.

Nice deflection.

It should be obvious to you by now that we don’t want you dictating our nail filing choices. You’d be outraged too if somebody tried to dictate your nail selling choices. This is very basic, so stop pretending you don’t get it.

It would still be nice to get an answer to the question, what is so triggering to POC about white women’s mascara and manicure choices? And why can’t POC adopt these supposed “power” symbols???

[Anonymous]

The make up choices are not political - the idea of having to "reclaim" something for white women is - who are you reclaiming something from? That seems to be divisive from jump while pretending to be neutral

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The make up choices are not political - the idea of having to "reclaim" something for white women is - who are you reclaiming something from? That seems to be divisive from jump while pretending to be neutral

I suppose that’s true—if your starting point is that Cao and her ilk have already carried the day and white women no longer have control over their makeup, clothing, or manicure choices.

The whole point of this thread is that women are pushing back before we get to that point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It has been a relief to me to read this thread. For various reasons, I have spent the past 3ish years inundated by the ideas in this interview. I went from being a progressive liberal to literally just giving up and registering as Republican because it seemed like liberals were suddenly racial segregationists, and I didn't want to be involved in a movement that viewed people primarily as demographic categories. The fact that reasonable liberal women are weighing in to correctly call out this BS is very heartening to me. And I'm surprised that this article generated do much discussion here bc I have literally been inundated with this kind of crap for years, so I may need to figure out where the normal liberals are.

It is very hard for me to believe anyone who truly believed in liberal causes, such as protecting the rights of all Americans and trying to right the wrongs against marginalized groups (from women to POC to LGBTQ+ etc) would think registering as a Republican in today's climate was a good option. Any group that is so obviously anti-women, anti-women's rights, anti-LGBTQ, against telling the truth about our nations history in schools, anti-environment, etc. and pro-conspiracy theories, pro-election denying, refusing to acknowledge the reality of Jan 6...just NO! They want to dismantle our democracy to hold on to power.

I am one of the posters who is sad about the anti-white-women sentiments that seem to be so ubiquitous and (unfortunately) tolerated right now, but I think this is a symptom of how, frankly, unsophisticated humans can be in their thinking. It's like we can never have the pendulum in the middle; we overreact to things that are wrong by going overboard in the other direction. We have to work together to right the ship, not go over to the group that wants to take away rights from women and other marginalized groups and defend only the wealthy and powerful.

Funny how you preach "working together" but what you really mean is, working with those who share your exact opinion with zero deviation from that opinion. It's pretty hard to take you seriously when you talk about the rights of all Americans while spewing such venom about the political party you oppose. How very virtuous to be so arrogant in your own opinion that everyone who questions it or doesn't share it gets a label. The poster that you responded to has some valid points, but you'll never hear them because you're so busy repeating your talking points. You don't have to open your mind to what the right espouses, but FFS, at least listen to another liberal and consider they might have some valid points.

Oh I absolutely mean pro-democracy people working together against the anti-democracy members of the GOP. I'm not quibbling about it and I will not apologize. The opinions across the Democratic party *are* quite varied, because it is a large umbrella. Not so much across the lock-step GOP. There are a few Republicans out there willing to speak out against their parties awful policies, but unfortunately they are few. Please detail for me the policies of the Republican party that pro-women's rights, pro-LGBTQ rights, anti-racist, and are about rights of all Americans. You can't. Everything I stated about the policies, propaganda and rhetoric of Republicans is true.

You're attempt to parrot the GOP cry of "you must tolerate my intolerance" is ridiculous and tired.

Yeah, you’re just proving my point with your follow up rant. You must feel so virtuous, ridding the world of evil and all that…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The make up choices are not political - the idea of having to "reclaim" something for white women is - who are you reclaiming something from? That seems to be divisive from jump while pretending to be neutral

Your side is claiming white women are reclaiming something. Our side is just defending women being able to choose their nail shape without being accused of white supremacy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not think the ideas in this interview are racism. I do think they are wrongheaded and a massive rhetorical stretch. I also think it's part of a broader trend of blaming white women, and especially white women with the least amount of actual power (young women trying to make a buck on Instagram, middle aged moms) instead of the white women who have actually ascended to positions of real power and authority. Easier to complain about the soft power of some Instagram influencer than to talk about how some of the white women at high levels in the media or corporate world perpetuate white supremacy. Always easiest to criticize someone who will never, ever be able to offer you a job.

Also, if you've listened to the interview but haven't read Steffi Cao's essay that prompted NPR to invite her on, I recommend reading it. The tone of the interview makes her argument seem gentler than it is. Her essay is vitriolic in a way that really bothered me. Just the absolute disdain she has for her subject. I've read plenty of smart and valid criticisms of white women that have made me think and examine my own role in white supremacy. This wasn't one of them.

Oh for God’s sake. The ultimate critique all of this coverage drives at is of how white women, when we have our interest in whiteness catered to in this way, ultimately do at the ballot box. We are unreliable allies at best—and that is absolutely generalizable across differential levels of “real power and authority” among white women.

Agree that some white women vote along race and class lines, and I'm with you in feeling disgusted about that. But contrary to what you say, the MAGA women weren't allies in the first place.

But how on earth do makeup, clothing, and manicure choices "cater to whiteness"? Women of every race and color are following trends that work for them in terms of comfort etc. It's just math that some racial groups are a larger share of the population so they get more exposure on TicToc. Your statement that certain beauty trends should be abhorred because they "cater to whiteness" is as dumb as a lot of the associations in the article itself.

white college educated women are overwhelmingly liberal/democratic.

DP. 59% of college-educated white women voters went for Biden. I wouldn't call that "overwhelmingly liberal."

A lot of posters are taking these commentaries super personally without looking at their peers. Yes, not all white women behave any particular way, but you have to see that concerns from POC can arise because of the actions of a large enough minority.

Because we wear minimal makeup and oval nails, we aren’t MAGA, and we simply can’t understand how these make us avatars of white racism. Please explain.

If the emotional impact of your minimum makeup and oval nails weren’t linked to anything more, you wouldn’t be going nuts demanding explanations of other people’s views of those things. You’d just do them and be comfortable with it. Clearly that’s not what is happening here. See above.

Once more with feeling: please explain the “emotional impact” of my mascara and manicure choices, or of a coastal grandma, on POC. While you’re at it, please explain why POC can’t adopt these same trends.

This is a forum dedicated to middle-aged women. Your surprise at the pushback seems a little naive. But yeah, I’m tired of being Karened and I’m not going to let you tell me what to wear.

IDK what the emotional impact of your makeup is to you personally; I just know that something about the "#vanillagirl" or "#cleangirl" look seems to be very important to white women here on DCUM. That's why this thread is this long.

I'm not surprised at the pushback, either. You may be confusing me with another poster.

On the contrary, people are tired of such trivial, meaningless things being considered racist plots. This is especially true because we've heard for years that white people should avoid any trend that originated in communities of color. Now we are being told that we also cannot have own fashion. We should just hide in our houses, ashamed, reading White Fragility and donating to NPR.

Having this level of heat behind response to a double-blinded accusation of “racist plot” is meaningful, and not just about makeup. It sounds like even you concede this.

I'm not conceding that makeup is a Nazi Trojan horse. I think that is Pizzagate-level nonsense. Meghan Markle is the epitome of "vanilla girl" style-- shades of white, off-white, beige, etc. The idea that this is a white thing, much less a white supremacy thing, is Grade A Bat Guano.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a woman of color and I find the article silly. What I guess I don't understand is the tremendous outrage it seems to have triggered here among white women. If you think it's dumb, that's fine, but what is it about this that makes white women so damn fragile about it all?

Being constantly told you’re a “Karen,” being constantly told you are not recognizing your privilege (never mind people having no idea what struggles you or your family have faced), being constantly told you’re a “basic B” or “have no culture,” being constantly told you’re not recognizing other people (again, when people don’t actually know who you are or what you’ve done), being told you’re not an ally, or not ally enough, or that your allyship is “performative,” being constantly told you are “fragile”…basically, you are never doing it right. Which is all fine and part of life and not a hard burden to bear, but it is never-ending.

Omg did I really just read this? You are such a stereotype. Check yourself white lady.

Right? White ladies should absolutely not complain about being put into boxes, whether that's a Karen box, a performative ally box, or a fragility box. Or a box where your makeup and fingernail decisions offend someone for reasons they can't explain, but godammit, stop that right now and wear nothing but black latex so my unexplored feels aren't offended!

+1. Cao suggested, without a hint of irony, that white women should dress in black latex bodysuits. Like submissive imps in a BDSM dungeon. Submit, white ladies, for America's progress.

[Anonymous]

I'm currently using my white privilege to file my nails into their usual oval shape and will paint them with a lovely dark red shade before my trip. My privilege hasn't afforded me the luxury of professional manicures hence I'm doing them myself. Don't care if anyone judges them, so do not care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The make up choices are not political - the idea of having to "reclaim" something for white women is - who are you reclaiming something from? That seems to be divisive from jump while pretending to be neutral

Your side is claiming white women are reclaiming something. Our side is just defending women being able to choose their nail shape without being accused of white supremacy.

Aka, you call it white supremacy I call you a racist. Your problem, not mine. Have a nice day.

[Anonymous]

Okay we're picking on white women, the new national Olympic sport. But I've got to say, I f g hate, truly hate, long pointy fake fingernails, ie. Cardi B. They look trashy and reek of dirty, I just can't go into how many ways they are an absolute turn off the the male friends I have in this life. Why anyone would walk around with those talons is beyond me. You are welcome to come into the oval short nail world, there's plenty of room for everyone here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Okay we're picking on white women, the new national Olympic sport. But I've got to say, I f g hate, truly hate, long pointy fake fingernails, ie. Cardi B. They look trashy and reek of dirty, I just can't go into how many ways they are an absolute turn off the the male friends I have in this life. Why anyone would walk around with those talons is beyond me. You are welcome to come into the oval short nail world, there's plenty of room for everyone here.

Oval nails are less likely to chip. Fact. Don’t let anybody take that away from you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Okay we're picking on white women, the new national Olympic sport. But I've got to say, I f g hate, truly hate, long pointy fake fingernails, ie. Cardi B. They look trashy and reek of dirty, I just can't go into how many ways they are an absolute turn off the the male friends I have in this life. Why anyone would walk around with those talons is beyond me. You are welcome to come into the oval short nail world, there's plenty of room for everyone here.

Here’s another irony: you hate long, “trashy” nails and nail art - you are racist because those are associated with “black and brown people.” You love long nails and nail art, you’re culturally appropriating because that’s a style associated with “black and brown people” and therefore you are … wait for it … racist! So you go outside the long nails/nail art thing entirely and go with a short, oval manicure in a neutral color … RACIST because it’s perpetuating white beauty standards!!!!

NPR please give me a job!