Restorative Justice is struggling to show success in MCPS according to students, parents

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I found the article in Bethesda Magazine an easier read than having to sit through that meeting, but my takeaway were:

1) The county lacks any metrics on the effectiveness of RJ
2) The CEO program is doing its job and seems to be working, but it lacks metrics to assess this compared with SROs.

Seems like they lack actual data to make informed choices. Maybe that's by design but who knows?

I'm still trying to make my way through it. I found it interesting that they did things like lumped Epi-Pen medical emergencies with medical emergencies from fights so there was no way to get a clear picture of how many times students have had to get medical help from school violence. One question that was asked more than once was about the rate of kids that reoffend once they go through the RJ process and nobody was able to answer that. I think that should be one of the MAIN indicators on if it's working or not.

IMO, they are purposefully obscuring that info.

It seems that way, but what would they have to gain from this? That just makes matters worse for everyone.

I wish there was a way to hold them accountable and require follow up to provide this information.

What they have to gain is that they can hide how ineffective RJ is, and how crime is up in MCPS after SROs were removed.

It justifies keeping RJ and not having SROs.

Okay, but why would they want to keep RJ If it's ineffective? Wouldn't that just make matters worse for them? Seriously, I just can't understand why they wouldn't want to make the best possible decisions since this impacts the welfare of so many students.

You must be new to MoCo.

All MoCo progressives care about is the perception of RJ and social justice. They don't actually care whether the program works or not. They don't actually care about all kids, only that the perception that black/brown kids aren't getting into trouble at a higher rate than the other groups. Nevermind that the victims tend to be mostly URM kids.

Interesting theory, but any credible evidence to support this because that sounds a bit delusional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I found the article in Bethesda Magazine an easier read than having to sit through that meeting, but my takeaway were:

1) The county lacks any metrics on the effectiveness of RJ
2) The CEO program is doing its job and seems to be working, but it lacks metrics to assess this compared with SROs.

Seems like they lack actual data to make informed choices. Maybe that's by design but who knows?

I'm still trying to make my way through it. I found it interesting that they did things like lumped Epi-Pen medical emergencies with medical emergencies from fights so there was no way to get a clear picture of how many times students have had to get medical help from school violence. One question that was asked more than once was about the rate of kids that reoffend once they go through the RJ process and nobody was able to answer that. I think that should be one of the MAIN indicators on if it's working or not.

IMO, they are purposefully obscuring that info.

It seems that way, but what would they have to gain from this? That just makes matters worse for everyone.

I wish there was a way to hold them accountable and require follow up to provide this information.

What they have to gain is that they can hide how ineffective RJ is, and how crime is up in MCPS after SROs were removed.

It justifies keeping RJ and not having SROs.

Okay, but why would they want to keep RJ If it's ineffective? Wouldn't that just make matters worse for them? Seriously, I just can't understand why they wouldn't want to make the best possible decisions since this impacts the welfare of so many students.

You must be new to MoCo.

All MoCo progressives care about is the perception of RJ and social justice. They don't actually care whether the program works or not. They don't actually care about all kids, only that the perception that black/brown kids aren't getting into trouble at a higher rate than the other groups. Nevermind that the victims tend to be mostly URM kids.

Exactly. Their goal seems to be to collapse public schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

One point that they brought up is that suspensions are down but I think that RS makes it harder to suspend somebody so that's not a good metric at all.

+1 How dumb. Gee, if we don't suspend them, then the numbers will look better.

This is the goal, to reduce racial disparities in suspensions. By reducing suspensions, this would reduce this. However, the most serious suspensions have an even larger racial disparity. Therefore, raising the bar for suspensions is not enough. They would have to punish white kids more, and look the other way on a lot more for black kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I found the article in Bethesda Magazine an easier read than having to sit through that meeting, but my takeaway were:

1) The county lacks any metrics on the effectiveness of RJ
2) The CEO program is doing its job and seems to be working, but it lacks metrics to assess this compared with SROs.

Seems like they lack actual data to make informed choices. Maybe that's by design but who knows?

I'm still trying to make my way through it. I found it interesting that they did things like lumped Epi-Pen medical emergencies with medical emergencies from fights so there was no way to get a clear picture of how many times students have had to get medical help from school violence. One question that was asked more than once was about the rate of kids that reoffend once they go through the RJ process and nobody was able to answer that. I think that should be one of the MAIN indicators on if it's working or not.

IMO, they are purposefully obscuring that info.

It seems that way, but what would they have to gain from this? That just makes matters worse for everyone.

I wish there was a way to hold them accountable and require follow up to provide this information.

What they have to gain is that they can hide how ineffective RJ is, and how crime is up in MCPS after SROs were removed.

It justifies keeping RJ and not having SROs.

Okay, but why would they want to keep RJ If it's ineffective? Wouldn't that just make matters worse for them? Seriously, I just can't understand why they wouldn't want to make the best possible decisions since this impacts the welfare of so many students.

You must be new to MoCo.

All MoCo progressives care about is the perception of RJ and social justice. They don't actually care whether the program works or not. They don't actually care about all kids, only that the perception that black/brown kids aren't getting into trouble at a higher rate than the other groups. Nevermind that the victims tend to be mostly URM kids.

Interesting theory, but any credible evidence to support this because that sounds a bit delusional.

The evidence is that there are no is no hard data that is publicized. Anyone who thinks RJ is working is delusional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I found the article in Bethesda Magazine an easier read than having to sit through that meeting, but my takeaway were:

1) The county lacks any metrics on the effectiveness of RJ
2) The CEO program is doing its job and seems to be working, but it lacks metrics to assess this compared with SROs.

Seems like they lack actual data to make informed choices. Maybe that's by design but who knows?

I'm still trying to make my way through it. I found it interesting that they did things like lumped Epi-Pen medical emergencies with medical emergencies from fights so there was no way to get a clear picture of how many times students have had to get medical help from school violence. One question that was asked more than once was about the rate of kids that reoffend once they go through the RJ process and nobody was able to answer that. I think that should be one of the MAIN indicators on if it's working or not.

IMO, they are purposefully obscuring that info.

It seems that way, but what would they have to gain from this? That just makes matters worse for everyone.

I wish there was a way to hold them accountable and require follow up to provide this information.

What they have to gain is that they can hide how ineffective RJ is, and how crime is up in MCPS after SROs were removed.

It justifies keeping RJ and not having SROs.

Okay, but why would they want to keep RJ If it's ineffective? Wouldn't that just make matters worse for them? Seriously, I just can't understand why they wouldn't want to make the best possible decisions since this impacts the welfare of so many students.

You must be new to MoCo.

All MoCo progressives care about is the perception of RJ and social justice. They don't actually care whether the program works or not. They don't actually care about all kids, only that the perception that black/brown kids aren't getting into trouble at a higher rate than the other groups. Nevermind that the victims tend to be mostly URM kids.

Interesting theory, but any credible evidence to support this because that sounds a bit delusional.

The evidence is that there are no is no hard data that is publicized. Anyone who thinks RJ is working is delusional.

Got it. Just a conspiracy theory...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I found the article in Bethesda Magazine an easier read than having to sit through that meeting, but my takeaway were:

1) The county lacks any metrics on the effectiveness of RJ
2) The CEO program is doing its job and seems to be working, but it lacks metrics to assess this compared with SROs.

Seems like they lack actual data to make informed choices. Maybe that's by design but who knows?

I'm still trying to make my way through it. I found it interesting that they did things like lumped Epi-Pen medical emergencies with medical emergencies from fights so there was no way to get a clear picture of how many times students have had to get medical help from school violence. One question that was asked more than once was about the rate of kids that reoffend once they go through the RJ process and nobody was able to answer that. I think that should be one of the MAIN indicators on if it's working or not.

IMO, they are purposefully obscuring that info.

It seems that way, but what would they have to gain from this? That just makes matters worse for everyone.

I wish there was a way to hold them accountable and require follow up to provide this information.

What they have to gain is that they can hide how ineffective RJ is, and how crime is up in MCPS after SROs were removed.

It justifies keeping RJ and not having SROs.

Okay, but why would they want to keep RJ If it's ineffective? Wouldn't that just make matters worse for them? Seriously, I just can't understand why they wouldn't want to make the best possible decisions since this impacts the welfare of so many students.

You must be new to MoCo.

All MoCo progressives care about is the perception of RJ and social justice. They don't actually care whether the program works or not. They don't actually care about all kids, only that the perception that black/brown kids aren't getting into trouble at a higher rate than the other groups. Nevermind that the victims tend to be mostly URM kids.

Exactly. Their goal seems to be to collapse public schools.

Oddly that sounds more like the GOP. They've never been all that happy about public schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:SSuspension and referral data does not reflect much in the schools at the moment. The referral process has been minimized or ignored in my cases. Teachers arent even trained on it. Schools cant suspend unless they get approval from central office. Calling police for investigations/ arrests and ambulances for emergencies can't be manipulated easily. So, it is the only useful data in my opinion. MCPS and MoCo admin wants to see RJ as successful and see success in reducing the school to prison pipeline. However, I have a feeling the data doesnt support that possibility yet. It could in the future is RJ is actually implemented, but that is very, very hard to do. It is a relatively lengthy process for the individuals involved and schools have difficulty committing the resources and gaining buy in from students.

THIS! We have physical altercations in my elementary school between students and zero suspensions. About ten students make it feel like the entire school is being help captive by small children. If we suspended as we should, the data would be horrible looking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SSuspension and referral data does not reflect much in the schools at the moment. The referral process has been minimized or ignored in my cases. Teachers arent even trained on it. Schools cant suspend unless they get approval from central office. Calling police for investigations/ arrests and ambulances for emergencies can't be manipulated easily. So, it is the only useful data in my opinion. MCPS and MoCo admin wants to see RJ as successful and see success in reducing the school to prison pipeline. However, I have a feeling the data doesnt support that possibility yet. It could in the future is RJ is actually implemented, but that is very, very hard to do. It is a relatively lengthy process for the individuals involved and schools have difficulty committing the resources and gaining buy in from students.

THIS! We have physical altercations in my elementary school between students and zero suspensions. About ten students make it feel like the entire school is being help captive by small children. If we suspended as we should, the data would be horrible looking.

So you think suspending these kids would help reduce the problem?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SSuspension and referral data does not reflect much in the schools at the moment. The referral process has been minimized or ignored in my cases. Teachers arent even trained on it. Schools cant suspend unless they get approval from central office. Calling police for investigations/ arrests and ambulances for emergencies can't be manipulated easily. So, it is the only useful data in my opinion. MCPS and MoCo admin wants to see RJ as successful and see success in reducing the school to prison pipeline. However, I have a feeling the data doesnt support that possibility yet. It could in the future is RJ is actually implemented, but that is very, very hard to do. It is a relatively lengthy process for the individuals involved and schools have difficulty committing the resources and gaining buy in from students.

THIS! We have physical altercations in my elementary school between students and zero suspensions. About ten students make it feel like the entire school is being help captive by small children. If we suspended as we should, the data would be horrible looking.

So you think suspending these kids would help reduce the problem?

The 5% of students who are repeat offenders “stir the pot” and pull in the 20% of kids who are marginal but see the master manipulators getting away with it. So, poor behavior becomes normalized and makes learning difficult for everyone. Suspension often is a punishment for parents since it inconveniences them. This finally makes them get involved with their kids instead of just dumping them off. Suspension doesn’t help the offenders but it can help the rest of the school function. Some of the worst offenders can basically ruin the day for admin, teachers and other students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I found the article in Bethesda Magazine an easier read than having to sit through that meeting, but my takeaway were:

1) The county lacks any metrics on the effectiveness of RJ
2) The CEO program is doing its job and seems to be working, but it lacks metrics to assess this compared with SROs.

Seems like they lack actual data to make informed choices. Maybe that's by design but who knows?

I'm still trying to make my way through it. I found it interesting that they did things like lumped Epi-Pen medical emergencies with medical emergencies from fights so there was no way to get a clear picture of how many times students have had to get medical help from school violence. One question that was asked more than once was about the rate of kids that reoffend once they go through the RJ process and nobody was able to answer that. I think that should be one of the MAIN indicators on if it's working or not.

IMO, they are purposefully obscuring that info.

It seems that way, but what would they have to gain from this? That just makes matters worse for everyone.

I wish there was a way to hold them accountable and require follow up to provide this information.

What they have to gain is that they can hide how ineffective RJ is, and how crime is up in MCPS after SROs were removed.

It justifies keeping RJ and not having SROs.

Okay, but why would they want to keep RJ If it's ineffective? Wouldn't that just make matters worse for them? Seriously, I just can't understand why they wouldn't want to make the best possible decisions since this impacts the welfare of so many students.

You must be new to MoCo.

All MoCo progressives care about is the perception of RJ and social justice. They don't actually care whether the program works or not. They don't actually care about all kids, only that the perception that black/brown kids aren't getting into trouble at a higher rate than the other groups. Nevermind that the victims tend to be mostly URM kids.

Exactly. Their goal seems to be to collapse public schools.

Oddly that sounds more like the GOP. They've never been all that happy about public schools.

Liar. It’s dems who want zero consequences for the violence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SSuspension and referral data does not reflect much in the schools at the moment. The referral process has been minimized or ignored in my cases. Teachers arent even trained on it. Schools cant suspend unless they get approval from central office. Calling police for investigations/ arrests and ambulances for emergencies can't be manipulated easily. So, it is the only useful data in my opinion. MCPS and MoCo admin wants to see RJ as successful and see success in reducing the school to prison pipeline. However, I have a feeling the data doesnt support that possibility yet. It could in the future is RJ is actually implemented, but that is very, very hard to do. It is a relatively lengthy process for the individuals involved and schools have difficulty committing the resources and gaining buy in from students.

THIS! We have physical altercations in my elementary school between students and zero suspensions. About ten students make it feel like the entire school is being help captive by small children. If we suspended as we should, the data would be horrible looking.

So you think suspending these kids would help reduce the problem?

The 5% of students who are repeat offenders “stir the pot” and pull in the 20% of kids who are marginal but see the master manipulators getting away with it. So, poor behavior becomes normalized and makes learning difficult for everyone. Suspension often is a punishment for parents since it inconveniences them. This finally makes them get involved with their kids instead of just dumping them off. Suspension doesn’t help the offenders but it can help the rest of the school function. Some of the worst offenders can basically ruin the day for admin, teachers and other students.

Yes, the top 5% won't really be impacted by a suspension as they need intensive supports. I can tell you though, the other 15% teetering on the edge will think twice when parents are inconvenienced. Right now, they're seeing the top 5% do whatever the heck they want and are being brought into the fold.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SSuspension and referral data does not reflect much in the schools at the moment. The referral process has been minimized or ignored in my cases. Teachers arent even trained on it. Schools cant suspend unless they get approval from central office. Calling police for investigations/ arrests and ambulances for emergencies can't be manipulated easily. So, it is the only useful data in my opinion. MCPS and MoCo admin wants to see RJ as successful and see success in reducing the school to prison pipeline. However, I have a feeling the data doesnt support that possibility yet. It could in the future is RJ is actually implemented, but that is very, very hard to do. It is a relatively lengthy process for the individuals involved and schools have difficulty committing the resources and gaining buy in from students.

THIS! We have physical altercations in my elementary school between students and zero suspensions. About ten students make it feel like the entire school is being help captive by small children. If we suspended as we should, the data would be horrible looking.

So you think suspending these kids would help reduce the problem?

The 5% of students who are repeat offenders “stir the pot” and pull in the 20% of kids who are marginal but see the master manipulators getting away with it. So, poor behavior becomes normalized and makes learning difficult for everyone. Suspension often is a punishment for parents since it inconveniences them. This finally makes them get involved with their kids instead of just dumping them off. Suspension doesn’t help the offenders but it can help the rest of the school function. Some of the worst offenders can basically ruin the day for admin, teachers and other students.

+1,000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SSuspension and referral data does not reflect much in the schools at the moment. The referral process has been minimized or ignored in my cases. Teachers arent even trained on it. Schools cant suspend unless they get approval from central office. Calling police for investigations/ arrests and ambulances for emergencies can't be manipulated easily. So, it is the only useful data in my opinion. MCPS and MoCo admin wants to see RJ as successful and see success in reducing the school to prison pipeline. However, I have a feeling the data doesnt support that possibility yet. It could in the future is RJ is actually implemented, but that is very, very hard to do. It is a relatively lengthy process for the individuals involved and schools have difficulty committing the resources and gaining buy in from students.

THIS! We have physical altercations in my elementary school between students and zero suspensions. About ten students make it feel like the entire school is being help captive by small children. If we suspended as we should, the data would be horrible looking.

So you think suspending these kids would help reduce the problem?

New poster but of course. Because then it becomes the parents problem too

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SSuspension and referral data does not reflect much in the schools at the moment. The referral process has been minimized or ignored in my cases. Teachers arent even trained on it. Schools cant suspend unless they get approval from central office. Calling police for investigations/ arrests and ambulances for emergencies can't be manipulated easily. So, it is the only useful data in my opinion. MCPS and MoCo admin wants to see RJ as successful and see success in reducing the school to prison pipeline. However, I have a feeling the data doesnt support that possibility yet. It could in the future is RJ is actually implemented, but that is very, very hard to do. It is a relatively lengthy process for the individuals involved and schools have difficulty committing the resources and gaining buy in from students.

THIS! We have physical altercations in my elementary school between students and zero suspensions. About ten students make it feel like the entire school is being help captive by small children. If we suspended as we should, the data would be horrible looking.

So you think suspending these kids would help reduce the problem?

The 5% of students who are repeat offenders “stir the pot” and pull in the 20% of kids who are marginal but see the master manipulators getting away with it. So, poor behavior becomes normalized and makes learning difficult for everyone. Suspension often is a punishment for parents since it inconveniences them. This finally makes them get involved with their kids instead of just dumping them off. Suspension doesn’t help the offenders but it can help the rest of the school function. Some of the worst offenders can basically ruin the day for admin, teachers and other students.

Yes to this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SSuspension and referral data does not reflect much in the schools at the moment. The referral process has been minimized or ignored in my cases. Teachers arent even trained on it. Schools cant suspend unless they get approval from central office. Calling police for investigations/ arrests and ambulances for emergencies can't be manipulated easily. So, it is the only useful data in my opinion. MCPS and MoCo admin wants to see RJ as successful and see success in reducing the school to prison pipeline. However, I have a feeling the data doesnt support that possibility yet. It could in the future is RJ is actually implemented, but that is very, very hard to do. It is a relatively lengthy process for the individuals involved and schools have difficulty committing the resources and gaining buy in from students.

THIS! We have physical altercations in my elementary school between students and zero suspensions. About ten students make it feel like the entire school is being help captive by small children. If we suspended as we should, the data would be horrible looking.

So you think suspending these kids would help reduce the problem?

I think expelling these kids would eliminate most major behavior issues in schools. I don't really care anymore if that means those kids' lives are ruined. What about the other 95-99% of the students who are having their lives negatively impacted while the oppositional, disturbed, emotionally and behaviorally disabled students ruin schools. I'm not talking about class clowns or the kids who get a little sassy. I'm talking about the kids who destroy classrooms, bring weapons (and NOPE bringing a weapon doesn't typically end in expulsion), assault students and teachers, etc.