Restorative Justice is struggling to show success in MCPS according to students, parents

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't seem to be going any better at FCPS. My child's elementary school really pushed for it for a bullying situation in lieu of actually doing anything. The RJ mediator met with the students and opted not to go forward with the process. So, the thing that the school was relying on isn't going to happen.

What a mess. It's almost as if theoretical ideas can meet failure when taken out of the abstract thought exercises and places in real-world dynamic and complex scenarios.

It isn’t theoretical. It works well for the Maori, who invented it. Problem is, we aren’t Māori. We are Pakeha.

No we are not. Not most of us, anyway. I'm sure some of us are (which is one of the great things about MCPS's highly diverse population). The idea of apology and forgiveness isn't exactly unique to Māori culture. It's even built in the US legal system in parole and sentencing guidelines.

Seriously, and someone else in this thread pointed out that RJ doesn't work all that perfectly in Maori culture.

The RJ proponents are so unhinged it's unreal. They would be more persuasive if they were honest and transparent about the parameters and limits of the RJ approach but instead, because they're desperate to pour millions of dollars in resources into their academic, philosophical fantasy, they insist till they're blue in the face that RJ is a panacea and can cure all, if only we all just believed!

Get a grip and grow up, RJ evangelists. You'll get more people onboard if you're honest and real instead of entertaining fantasies and trying to force them onto others as reality.

You do not like RJ so you say, but try it try it and you may!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How and why did "accountability," "consequences" and "discipline" become bad words in our school system? Parents didn't ask for this.

Under the Obama era it was decided that too many children of a certain race were getting suspended.

RJ was implemented to use in lieu of suspensions.

Don't know about any of that but when they used to stop my kid from being bullied it worked!

It's effective when used correctly, but seems like some are just against everything other than prison.

There has been no evidence of it's effectiveness, yet you keep insisting it's effective. MCPS's own surveys have shown it's not effective, as the article that started this thread proved. Your RJ zombie talking points are DOA. Stop wasting bandwidth with them.

Furthermore, if this solution is so sensitive to error and dysfunction if it's not "used correctly," then maybe it's not a solution that's suitable for a school district of MCPS's scope, size and inconsistency.

But suspension, expulsion, police arrest and prison seem to be used correctly??? Despite all evidence and research in schools and society to the contrary?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How and why did "accountability," "consequences" and "discipline" become bad words in our school system? Parents didn't ask for this.

Under the Obama era it was decided that too many children of a certain race were getting suspended.

RJ was implemented to use in lieu of suspensions.

Don't know about any of that but when they used to stop my kid from being bullied it worked!

It's effective when used correctly, but seems like some are just against everything other than prison.

There has been no evidence of it's effectiveness, yet you keep insisting it's effective. MCPS's own surveys have shown it's not effective, as the article that started this thread proved. Your RJ zombie talking points are DOA. Stop wasting bandwidth with them.

Furthermore, if this solution is so sensitive to error and dysfunction if it's not "used correctly," then maybe it's not a solution that's suitable for a school district of MCPS's scope, size and inconsistency.

But suspension, expulsion, police arrest and prison seem to be used correctly??? Despite all evidence and research in schools and society to the contrary?

The person from MCPS who oversees this said the exact opposite at the March board meeting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not affiliated with MCPS, but have had some exposure to RJ practice. The ones that I'm familiar with, the victim is NOT required to participate if they don't want to. Are PPs saying that MCPS literally forces the victimized kids to engage in a "circle" or other RJ practice?

My kid was forced to eat lunch for a week with the kid that attacked her.

Get your kid out of that school.

Yes, we are doing just that for ours.
We had a child obsessed with mine who would use the circles to try and interact with mine. I told my child they could say no and I also told the administration that under no circumstance they should interact. Boundaries matter and, frankly, who you want to socialize as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not affiliated with MCPS, but have had some exposure to RJ practice. The ones that I'm familiar with, the victim is NOT required to participate if they don't want to. Are PPs saying that MCPS literally forces the victimized kids to engage in a "circle" or other RJ practice?

My kid was forced to eat lunch for a week with the kid that attacked her.

Get your kid out of that school.

Yes, we are doing just that for ours.
We had a child obsessed with mine who would use the circles to try and interact with mine. I told my child they could say no and I also told the administration that under no circumstance they should interact. Boundaries matter and, frankly, who you want to socialize as well.

Lol. You sound absolutely delusional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not affiliated with MCPS, but have had some exposure to RJ practice. The ones that I'm familiar with, the victim is NOT required to participate if they don't want to. Are PPs saying that MCPS literally forces the victimized kids to engage in a "circle" or other RJ practice?

My kid was forced to eat lunch for a week with the kid that attacked her.

Get your kid out of that school.

Yes, we are doing just that for ours.
We had a child obsessed with mine who would use the circles to try and interact with mine. I told my child they could say no and I also told the administration that under no circumstance they should interact. Boundaries matter and, frankly, who you want to socialize as well.

Lol. You sound absolutely delusional.

Poster here. I really wish that was the case and I was. But the child admitted it!

[Anonymous]

OP aka Stephen Austin, please find a new hobby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How and why did "accountability," "consequences" and "discipline" become bad words in our school system? Parents didn't ask for this.

Under the Obama era it was decided that too many children of a certain race were getting suspended.

RJ was implemented to use in lieu of suspensions.

Don't know about any of that but when they used to stop my kid from being bullied it worked!

It's effective when used correctly, but seems like some are just against everything other than prison.

There has been no evidence of it's effectiveness, yet you keep insisting it's effective. MCPS's own surveys have shown it's not effective, as the article that started this thread proved. Your RJ zombie talking points are DOA. Stop wasting bandwidth with them.

Furthermore, if this solution is so sensitive to error and dysfunction if it's not "used correctly," then maybe it's not a solution that's suitable for a school district of MCPS's scope, size and inconsistency.

But suspension, expulsion, police arrest and prison seem to be used correctly??? Despite all evidence and research in schools and society to the contrary?

The only child I know who ended up in prison from MCPS is Stephen Alston, who shot and almost killed another student. And former student Ta'Quawn Henderson is in jail pending trial for killing another MCPS student Jailyn Jones. He might get life. Trial starts in November.

At some point, people need to recognize that some kids are seriously hurting other people. And that is a problem. You can experiment all you want with programs with little supporting evidence, like RJ, but you are derelict if you do not ensure kids are safe while you play around with feel-good programs.

[Anonymous]

Here's my thought as a veteran teacher and parent:
Are there some situations where restorative justice makes sense and works? Does it work for some kids? If so, use it then.
Are there some situations or kids where they cannot be served at all within the public school system because they are so disruptive or so violent? If so, remove them.
Are there other approaches that do not unfairly target minority students or mistreat marginalized students (or any students)? Great, let's use that.

We can't go back to simply expelling everyone. And we can't only use RJ. But maybe that's the problem. Maybe it's the when, where and how these approaches are used. Maybe these each have a place and we need to talk more and try new things. But something has to happen because neither the old way nor the new way is helping large numbers of kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's my thought as a veteran teacher and parent:
Are there some situations where restorative justice makes sense and works? Does it work for some kids? If so, use it then.
Are there some situations or kids where they cannot be served at all within the public school system because they are so disruptive or so violent? If so, remove them.
Are there other approaches that do not unfairly target minority students or mistreat marginalized students (or any students)? Great, let's use that.

We can't go back to simply expelling everyone. And we can't only use RJ. But maybe that's the problem. Maybe it's the when, where and how these approaches are used. Maybe these each have a place and we need to talk more and try new things. But something has to happen because neither the old way nor the new way is helping large numbers of kids.

I posted the above. Fwiw, kids who are violent or who threaten violence need to be served outside the public system. I don't know how to do that, but that cannot be something schools have to handle.

[Anonymous]

It's all pretty much moot - most schools in MCPS are opting out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's my thought as a veteran teacher and parent:
Are there some situations where restorative justice makes sense and works? Does it work for some kids? If so, use it then.
Are there some situations or kids where they cannot be served at all within the public school system because they are so disruptive or so violent? If so, remove them.
Are there other approaches that do not unfairly target minority students or mistreat marginalized students (or any students)? Great, let's use that.

We can't go back to simply expelling everyone. And we can't only use RJ. But maybe that's the problem. Maybe it's the when, where and how these approaches are used. Maybe these each have a place and we need to talk more and try new things. But something has to happen because neither the old way nor the new way is helping large numbers of kids.

I posted the above. Fwiw, kids who are violent or who threaten violence need to be served outside the public system. I don't know how to do that, but that cannot be something schools have to handle.

Agreed. I hear from teacher friends and substitutes that there are lists of kids so violent, they must be escorted through the halls by security guards. In one case, one kid gets his own bus because he could hurt someone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's my thought as a veteran teacher and parent:
Are there some situations where restorative justice makes sense and works? Does it work for some kids? If so, use it then.
Are there some situations or kids where they cannot be served at all within the public school system because they are so disruptive or so violent? If so, remove them.
Are there other approaches that do not unfairly target minority students or mistreat marginalized students (or any students)? Great, let's use that.

We can't go back to simply expelling everyone. And we can't only use RJ. But maybe that's the problem. Maybe it's the when, where and how these approaches are used. Maybe these each have a place and we need to talk more and try new things. But something has to happen because neither the old way nor the new way is helping large numbers of kids.

I posted the above. Fwiw, kids who are violent or who threaten violence need to be served outside the public system. I don't know how to do that, but that cannot be something schools have to handle.

Agreed. I hear from teacher friends and substitutes that there are lists of kids so violent, they must be escorted through the halls by security guards. In one case, one kid gets his own bus because he could hurt someone.

Yes, even in elementary school our kiddos can be quite aggressive. I've been punched and slapped a few times and cannot tell you the number of times I've been kicked. These were general education students in my second grade classroom. I've been teaching 24 years and never experienced things like this until about 2019.

[Anonymous]

They should call it restorative injustice because it is an injustice to teach kids skills that will lead them to prison after graduation, it's an injustice to students who want to learn as rj emphasizes chaos and bad communication in the classroom, and an injustice to teachers who can't have any functional smooth lessons because kids are trained now to cuss the teachers out and throw chairs and there's nothing teachers can do without getting in trouble themselves.