Prince Harry’s book

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m mostly through Spare on audible and I am really enjoying it. Harry seemed ready to speak his truth and I am impressed by his ability to process all the trauma in his life. It also lays out a clear case for the shenanigans happening between the press office and the press. It wasn’t necessarily that Camilla was calling reporters but does seem like a wink wink agreement to deflect with stories of other people. Her recent lunch with Morgan and Clarkson are definitely suspect though… my one criticism (other than not really caring for the military parts) is that he doesn’t do much reflecting on how privileged he is. He has moments of clarity - in Africa, in Afghanistan, but he has more growth ahead to fully embrace that two things can be true. He can have a truly hard and traumatic childhood AND be completely lucky to have as much privilege as he does. Given the growth he describes in his book to date I have no doubt he will get there and Meghan will likely be a big champion of his work there.

Exactly. "His" truth is not necessarily "the" truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m mostly through Spare on audible and I am really enjoying it. Harry seemed ready to speak his truth and I am impressed by his ability to process all the trauma in his life. It also lays out a clear case for the shenanigans happening between the press office and the press. It wasn’t necessarily that Camilla was calling reporters but does seem like a wink wink agreement to deflect with stories of other people. Her recent lunch with Morgan and Clarkson are definitely suspect though… my one criticism (other than not really caring for the military parts) is that he doesn’t do much reflecting on how privileged he is. He has moments of clarity - in Africa, in Afghanistan, but he has more growth ahead to fully embrace that two things can be true. He can have a truly hard and traumatic childhood AND be completely lucky to have as much privilege as he does. Given the growth he describes in his book to date I have no doubt he will get there and Meghan will likely be a big champion of his work there.

Exactly. "His" truth is not necessarily "the" truth.

Harry and Meghan do have their fan clubs and I suppose they are entitled to them. But here's there reality: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/harry-and-meghans-popularity-in-the-us-plummets-according-to-new-poll/GOM5ATZKONBN7KZG5FBZ75AZFA/

I can link to plenty of articles and polls talking about people souring on the couple and Harry in general. And it is because there is a distinction between making a brouhaha about stepping aside for privacy and then spending the next few years putting yourself repeatedly in the limelight where you whine and moan and spill the beans on petty family frustrations. That's not stepping back for privacy, which if they had done from the get go, would have wide sweeping support. I do think Harry clearly has trauma from his mother's early death and how she died but he really needs to get over it and get on with life like his brother did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems to have fallen very quickly from the news. Haven't seen mention of it in a week or so.

Really wasn't much substance beyond a combination of frustration and spoiled clueless rich boy who couldn't figure out how to grow up. I didn't see anything in it that spoke badly of the royal family, which isn't surprising given how the rest of them seem to manage to function decently. I don't doubt they have their own frustrations but the others didn't need all this controversy to vent. The RF is an institution and all institutions need their rules to function and to make it coherent. The Queen was right when she told Harry the only alternative was to leave, but even Harry couldn't turn his escape into happiness, which tells you the real problem is him, not the royal family or others around him.

I highly doubt you've read the book. Had you read the book, you'd know that Harry isn't unhappy. Had you read the book, you'd realize how significant their need for security is and how The Firm makes it worse. Had you read the book, you'd know that because of how The Firm incorporated Harry into their production from birth, he can stop performing but he's still a member despite his unwillingness. It's like Hotel California. Just admit you didn't read the book.

I know no matter what I say you'll always be convinced I never read the book.

When you take the perspective the book was written by an unhappy man with an axe to grind and who is rather dim and short sighted, you'd see that it's someone amplifying many not atypical family frustrations and exploding it out on a bigger scale because of the backdrop of the royal family.

The royal family is an institution with its rules. There's a reason people refer to it as a firm. It is more than the sum of its members. And it abides by rules. Some of the rules don't make sense outside the family but they do exist, such as precedence and rituals. Many of the rules exist because of how the monarchy functions within Britain and the expectations for the family and how it needs to conduct itself. That's why the Queen said follow the rules or hit the road.

DP. Perhaps you could cite to some particular anecdotes to support your point? Bonus points if you can cite to an anecdote that hasn’t been discussed in the media.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m mostly through Spare on audible and I am really enjoying it. Harry seemed ready to speak his truth and I am impressed by his ability to process all the trauma in his life. It also lays out a clear case for the shenanigans happening between the press office and the press. It wasn’t necessarily that Camilla was calling reporters but does seem like a wink wink agreement to deflect with stories of other people. Her recent lunch with Morgan and Clarkson are definitely suspect though… my one criticism (other than not really caring for the military parts) is that he doesn’t do much reflecting on how privileged he is. He has moments of clarity - in Africa, in Afghanistan, but he has more growth ahead to fully embrace that two things can be true. He can have a truly hard and traumatic childhood AND be completely lucky to have as much privilege as he does. Given the growth he describes in his book to date I have no doubt he will get there and Meghan will likely be a big champion of his work there.

Exactly. "His" truth is not necessarily "the" truth.

Harry and Meghan do have their fan clubs and I suppose they are entitled to them. But here's there reality: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/harry-and-meghans-popularity-in-the-us-plummets-according-to-new-poll/GOM5ATZKONBN7KZG5FBZ75AZFA/

I can link to plenty of articles and polls talking about people souring on the couple and Harry in general. And it is because there is a distinction between making a brouhaha about stepping aside for privacy and then spending the next few years putting yourself repeatedly in the limelight where you whine and moan and spill the beans on petty family frustrations. That's not stepping back for privacy, which if they had done from the get go, would have wide sweeping support. I do think Harry clearly has trauma from his mother's early death and how she died but he really needs to get over it and get on with life like his brother did.

You had to dig up an article from New Zealand about American approval ratings to support your point?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m mostly through Spare on audible and I am really enjoying it. Harry seemed ready to speak his truth and I am impressed by his ability to process all the trauma in his life. It also lays out a clear case for the shenanigans happening between the press office and the press. It wasn’t necessarily that Camilla was calling reporters but does seem like a wink wink agreement to deflect with stories of other people. Her recent lunch with Morgan and Clarkson are definitely suspect though… my one criticism (other than not really caring for the military parts) is that he doesn’t do much reflecting on how privileged he is. He has moments of clarity - in Africa, in Afghanistan, but he has more growth ahead to fully embrace that two things can be true. He can have a truly hard and traumatic childhood AND be completely lucky to have as much privilege as he does. Given the growth he describes in his book to date I have no doubt he will get there and Meghan will likely be a big champion of his work there.

Exactly. "His" truth is not necessarily "the" truth.

Harry and Meghan do have their fan clubs and I suppose they are entitled to them. But here's there reality: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/harry-and-meghans-popularity-in-the-us-plummets-according-to-new-poll/GOM5ATZKONBN7KZG5FBZ75AZFA/

I can link to plenty of articles and polls talking about people souring on the couple and Harry in general. And it is because there is a distinction between making a brouhaha about stepping aside for privacy and then spending the next few years putting yourself repeatedly in the limelight where you whine and moan and spill the beans on petty family frustrations. That's not stepping back for privacy, which if they had done from the get go, would have wide sweeping support. I do think Harry clearly has trauma from his mother's early death and how she died but he really needs to get over it and get on with life like his brother did.

As long as you’re linking, please link to a source for either Harry or Meghan mentioning “stepping aside for privacy”.
As to “souring” and “support” and your poll, I don’t see the point. Neither Harry Nor Meghan is running some sort of popularity contest, and poll results without information about exactly how those results were obtained don’t really mean anything. If there’s a link to the actual data, though — the questions that were asked, the population that was sampled … — that might be interesting. Since your link doesn’t provide any of that, it’s neither useful nor enlightening in any way.

In the end, Harry’s book continues to sell well, and continues to be meaningful to multiple audiences. I’m not sure what else matters here. Random people “souring” won’t impact the Sussex family, and doesn’t really provide much of substance to discuss — particularly if it’s not related in some way to the book that’s the topic of this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interjecting here - do you truly think Prince Charles and Camilla "planted" bad stories about William and Harry?

According to book: There are office systems, their staff, and yes, Harry indicated numerous times in which they were the only ones to know something. Secondly, she apparently was using his issues as a way to deflect her bad press. Stuff only Charles and she knew.

When people have that many servants and staff that are so deeply involved in every aspect of their lives, and their personal and professional lives are so intertwined, there is never “stuff” that only one (or two) people know. Harry is delusional if he thinks that. The walls have ears.

The servants and staff of the Royal Family are known for their discretion, but it’s also true that you don’t engender loyalty and discretion when you treat people badly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t disagree with any of what H and M are saying. I think what many Americans find surprising is that it’s such an obviously f—Ed up institution that it seems odd for Megan who willingly joined it and seemed to enjoy some of the benefits of it to then say “wait — this is f—Ed up.” I had the same thought about Diana but I gave her a little more slack because she was so young.
Harry just strikes me as such a sad situation because he grew up in that and just seems to both hate it but also be pretty captured by it. And like many people who come from a dysfunctional family, he can’t really figure out a way to live within that family with boundaries. I think at some point he may regret the way that he’s torching his family relationship but, sadly, unlike many people with disfunctional families, he never really can be free of them.

I think she was expecting a different family dynamic and, for certain, one in which there weren't popularity rules. By the time she realized it and how they were both being thrown to the wolves, they were already married. The book was clear that Harry was looking for a compromise but The Firm wasn't interested.

I come from a highly dysfunctional family. I don't think Harry will regret his book. I think he will grieve that his family was so dysfunctional that he felt compelled to have his voice amplified. I think he's still in the early phases of his recovery and desperately wants his family to see what he sees. Sadly, it's unlikely they ever will.

I mean, there was a reason his family was telling him to move slowly with this relationship.

Him, yes. Her no. How could she have known what it would be like? It defies the imagination of a normal person.

NP but I would argue she isn’t a normal person. She was in Hollywood and friends with some very famous people before meeting Harry. She is more savvy to his world than an actual normal person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interjecting here - do you truly think Prince Charles and Camilla "planted" bad stories about William and Harry?

According to book: There are office systems, their staff, and yes, Harry indicated numerous times in which they were the only ones to know something. Secondly, she apparently was using his issues as a way to deflect her bad press. Stuff only Charles and she knew.

When people have that many servants and staff that are so deeply involved in every aspect of their lives, and their personal and professional lives are so intertwined, there is never “stuff” that only one (or two) people know. Harry is delusional if he thinks that. The walls have ears.

The servants and staff of the Royal Family are known for their discretion, but it’s also true that you don’t engender loyalty and discretion when you treat people badly.

More accurately the walls or phones have eavesdroppers. You know he was hacked don’t you? William too and William also made it clear that things that he and only one other person knew were leaked. The phone hacking is no more, we believe, but the leaks continues. And he cites clear evidence they come from Camilla’s office. Read the book!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m mostly through Spare on audible and I am really enjoying it. Harry seemed ready to speak his truth and I am impressed by his ability to process all the trauma in his life. It also lays out a clear case for the shenanigans happening between the press office and the press. It wasn’t necessarily that Camilla was calling reporters but does seem like a wink wink agreement to deflect with stories of other people. Her recent lunch with Morgan and Clarkson are definitely suspect though… my one criticism (other than not really caring for the military parts) is that he doesn’t do much reflecting on how privileged he is. He has moments of clarity - in Africa, in Afghanistan, but he has more growth ahead to fully embrace that two things can be true. He can have a truly hard and traumatic childhood AND be completely lucky to have as much privilege as he does. Given the growth he describes in his book to date I have no doubt he will get there and Meghan will likely be a big champion of his work there.

Exactly. "His" truth is not necessarily "the" truth.

True. And that’s true of everyone. That’s why Spare is considered a memoir—as opposed to a biography. I think Harry and his ghostwriter seem to have done an excellent job of providing contextual details for readers to help us better understand “his truth”. The book also deliberately focuses on Harry’s own story and perceptions, something that I think is a strength, although a deliberately limiting one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems to have fallen very quickly from the news. Haven't seen mention of it in a week or so.

Really wasn't much substance beyond a combination of frustration and spoiled clueless rich boy who couldn't figure out how to grow up. I didn't see anything in it that spoke badly of the royal family, which isn't surprising given how the rest of them seem to manage to function decently. I don't doubt they have their own frustrations but the others didn't need all this controversy to vent. The RF is an institution and all institutions need their rules to function and to make it coherent. The Queen was right when she told Harry the only alternative was to leave, but even Harry couldn't turn his escape into happiness, which tells you the real problem is him, not the royal family or others around him.

I highly doubt you've read the book. Had you read the book, you'd know that Harry isn't unhappy. Had you read the book, you'd realize how significant their need for security is and how The Firm makes it worse. Had you read the book, you'd know that because of how The Firm incorporated Harry into their production from birth, he can stop performing but he's still a member despite his unwillingness. It's like Hotel California. Just admit you didn't read the book.

I know no matter what I say you'll always be convinced I never read the book.

When you take the perspective the book was written by an unhappy man with an axe to grind and who is rather dim and short sighted, you'd see that it's someone amplifying many not atypical family frustrations and exploding it out on a bigger scale because of the backdrop of the royal family.

The royal family is an institution with its rules. There's a reason people refer to it as a firm. It is more than the sum of its members. And it abides by rules. Some of the rules don't make sense outside the family but they do exist, such as precedence and rituals. Many of the rules exist because of how the monarchy functions within Britain and the expectations for the family and how it needs to conduct itself. That's why the Queen said follow the rules or hit the road.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m mostly through Spare on audible and I am really enjoying it. Harry seemed ready to speak his truth and I am impressed by his ability to process all the trauma in his life. It also lays out a clear case for the shenanigans happening between the press office and the press. It wasn’t necessarily that Camilla was calling reporters but does seem like a wink wink agreement to deflect with stories of other people. Her recent lunch with Morgan and Clarkson are definitely suspect though… my one criticism (other than not really caring for the military parts) is that he doesn’t do much reflecting on how privileged he is. He has moments of clarity - in Africa, in Afghanistan, but he has more growth ahead to fully embrace that two things can be true. He can have a truly hard and traumatic childhood AND be completely lucky to have as much privilege as he does. Given the growth he describes in his book to date I have no doubt he will get there and Meghan will likely be a big champion of his work there.

Exactly. "His" truth is not necessarily "the" truth.

Harry and Meghan do have their fan clubs and I suppose they are entitled to them. But here's there reality: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/harry-and-meghans-popularity-in-the-us-plummets-according-to-new-poll/GOM5ATZKONBN7KZG5FBZ75AZFA/

I can link to plenty of articles and polls talking about people souring on the couple and Harry in general. And it is because there is a distinction between making a brouhaha about stepping aside for privacy and then spending the next few years putting yourself repeatedly in the limelight where you whine and moan and spill the beans on petty family frustrations. That's not stepping back for privacy, which if they had done from the get go, would have wide sweeping support. I do think Harry clearly has trauma from his mother's early death and how she died but he really needs to get over it and get on with life like his brother did.

You had to dig up an article from New Zealand about American approval ratings to support your point?

Does Newsweek work for you?

https://www.newsweek.com/more-prince-harry-meghan-markle-say-less-americans-like-them-poll-1774617?amp=1

What about Yahoo?

https://news.yahoo.com/nearly-half-americans-think-harry-meghan-should-stripped-royal-titles-171931574.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m mostly through Spare on audible and I am really enjoying it. Harry seemed ready to speak his truth and I am impressed by his ability to process all the trauma in his life. It also lays out a clear case for the shenanigans happening between the press office and the press. It wasn’t necessarily that Camilla was calling reporters but does seem like a wink wink agreement to deflect with stories of other people. Her recent lunch with Morgan and Clarkson are definitely suspect though… my one criticism (other than not really caring for the military parts) is that he doesn’t do much reflecting on how privileged he is. He has moments of clarity - in Africa, in Afghanistan, but he has more growth ahead to fully embrace that two things can be true. He can have a truly hard and traumatic childhood AND be completely lucky to have as much privilege as he does. Given the growth he describes in his book to date I have no doubt he will get there and Meghan will likely be a big champion of his work there.

Exactly. "His" truth is not necessarily "the" truth.

True. And that’s true of everyone. That’s why Spare is considered a memoir—as opposed to a biography. I think Harry and his ghostwriter seem to have done an excellent job of providing contextual details for readers to help us better understand “his truth”. The book also deliberately focuses on Harry’s own story and perceptions, something that I think is a strength, although a deliberately limiting one.

The problem I have is with those who say it's THE truth. Not necessarily. But it's definitely a great way to share stories about your "loved ones" and make money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems to have fallen very quickly from the news. Haven't seen mention of it in a week or so.

Really wasn't much substance beyond a combination of frustration and spoiled clueless rich boy who couldn't figure out how to grow up. I didn't see anything in it that spoke badly of the royal family, which isn't surprising given how the rest of them seem to manage to function decently. I don't doubt they have their own frustrations but the others didn't need all this controversy to vent. The RF is an institution and all institutions need their rules to function and to make it coherent. The Queen was right when she told Harry the only alternative was to leave, but even Harry couldn't turn his escape into happiness, which tells you the real problem is him, not the royal family or others around him.

I highly doubt you've read the book. Had you read the book, you'd know that Harry isn't unhappy. Had you read the book, you'd realize how significant their need for security is and how The Firm makes it worse. Had you read the book, you'd know that because of how The Firm incorporated Harry into their production from birth, he can stop performing but he's still a member despite his unwillingness. It's like Hotel California. Just admit you didn't read the book.

I know no matter what I say you'll always be convinced I never read the book.

When you take the perspective the book was written by an unhappy man with an axe to grind and who is rather dim and short sighted, you'd see that it's someone amplifying many not atypical family frustrations and exploding it out on a bigger scale because of the backdrop of the royal family.

The royal family is an institution with its rules. There's a reason people refer to it as a firm. It is more than the sum of its members. And it abides by rules. Some of the rules don't make sense outside the family but they do exist, such as precedence and rituals. Many of the rules exist because of how the monarchy functions within Britain and the expectations for the family and how it needs to conduct itself. That's why the Queen said follow the rules or hit the road.

DP. Perhaps you could cite to some particular anecdotes to support your point? Bonus points if you can cite to an anecdote that hasn’t been discussed in the media.

I am shocked that pp has not been able to answer this question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t disagree with any of what H and M are saying. I think what many Americans find surprising is that it’s such an obviously f—Ed up institution that it seems odd for Megan who willingly joined it and seemed to enjoy some of the benefits of it to then say “wait — this is f—Ed up.” I had the same thought about Diana but I gave her a little more slack because she was so young.
Harry just strikes me as such a sad situation because he grew up in that and just seems to both hate it but also be pretty captured by it. And like many people who come from a dysfunctional family, he can’t really figure out a way to live within that family with boundaries. I think at some point he may regret the way that he’s torching his family relationship but, sadly, unlike many people with disfunctional families, he never really can be free of them.

I think she was expecting a different family dynamic and, for certain, one in which there weren't popularity rules. By the time she realized it and how they were both being thrown to the wolves, they were already married. The book was clear that Harry was looking for a compromise but The Firm wasn't interested.

I come from a highly dysfunctional family. I don't think Harry will regret his book. I think he will grieve that his family was so dysfunctional that he felt compelled to have his voice amplified. I think he's still in the early phases of his recovery and desperately wants his family to see what he sees. Sadly, it's unlikely they ever will.

I mean, there was a reason his family was telling him to move slowly with this relationship.

Him, yes. Her no. How could she have known what it would be like? It defies the imagination of a normal person.

NP but I would argue she isn’t a normal person. She was in Hollywood and friends with some very famous people before meeting Harry. She is more savvy to his world than an actual normal person.

Had you read the book, you'd know that even Hollywood types were astounded by the unrelenting hounding and the lengths the paps went to get their shot. Tyler Perry didn't even know them and offered them his home. Had you read the book, you'd know why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t disagree with any of what H and M are saying. I think what many Americans find surprising is that it’s such an obviously f—Ed up institution that it seems odd for Megan who willingly joined it and seemed to enjoy some of the benefits of it to then say “wait — this is f—Ed up.” I had the same thought about Diana but I gave her a little more slack because she was so young.
Harry just strikes me as such a sad situation because he grew up in that and just seems to both hate it but also be pretty captured by it. And like many people who come from a dysfunctional family, he can’t really figure out a way to live within that family with boundaries. I think at some point he may regret the way that he’s torching his family relationship but, sadly, unlike many people with disfunctional families, he never really can be free of them.

I think she was expecting a different family dynamic and, for certain, one in which there weren't popularity rules. By the time she realized it and how they were both being thrown to the wolves, they were already married. The book was clear that Harry was looking for a compromise but The Firm wasn't interested.

I come from a highly dysfunctional family. I don't think Harry will regret his book. I think he will grieve that his family was so dysfunctional that he felt compelled to have his voice amplified. I think he's still in the early phases of his recovery and desperately wants his family to see what he sees. Sadly, it's unlikely they ever will.

I mean, there was a reason his family was telling him to move slowly with this relationship.

Him, yes. Her no. How could she have known what it would be like? It defies the imagination of a normal person.

NP but I would argue she isn’t a normal person. She was in Hollywood and friends with some very famous people before meeting Harry. She is more savvy to his world than an actual normal person.

Had you read the book, you'd know that even Hollywood types were astounded by the unrelenting hounding and the lengths the paps went to get their shot. Tyler Perry didn't even know them and offered them his home. Had you read the book, you'd know why.

And again normal people aren’t just offered mansions by famous people . I’m not saying she wasn’t surprised or overwhelmed by the lifestyle, but it isn’t the same as a normal person as a PP stated.