Half of British women reach age 30 without having a child

[Anonymous]

My mom married her college sweetheart at 19 and had me at 21. Turns out my dad was a raging alcoholic, something she might have figured out with a few more years of dating, but oh well she got those babies out early, amirite?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What the hell do you expect?

Wages don't grow. Housing is completely unaffordable. Childcare costs are insane. Healthcare is ludicrous. Even if you had kids, stupid minivan to haul them around to soccer practice now costs $40k. And don't even talk about college costs....

You want to die in poverty? Have a kid.

Younger generations didn't create these problems. They're the ones that have to live with them though. The only solution is to not have kids just so that you can keep your financial head above water.

It's not money, it's decades of Hollywood and feminist propaganda. It's "cool" and "sophisticated" and "worldly" to piss away your prime fertility years living in the big city and traveling and waiting two hours to be seated for a hip brunch and rising the ladder at your make-work career, so you can piss more money away on shoes, travel, and instagram-worthy furniture. #GirlBoss #LeanIn

Oooooo the anti-brunch guy is back!!! I missed you and your rants against women going to brunch!!!

Is it really a dude? Gross.

I assumed it was a cranky old religious hag.

I'm not a "dude" or a "hag". I'm in my mid 40s, married, mother of three, one grandchild, a meaningful career, and all of my children attended top 25 universities. Play coy that being a wine or martini drunk, and wasting weekends away shopping and brunching weren't a "thing" for women over the last two decades. It's basically the premise of SATC. Waste your 20s and 30s and you'll land a Mr Big. Fertility? Don't worry about it! Have hedonistic fun! Millions of women who should have been married and having babies were wasting their lives on nothing. Pointless consumerism, and now, nothing to show for it. No heirs, no legacy, nobody will remember them. Genetic dead ends. Never mind end of life, imagine being stricken with an illness in your 30s 40s 50s and no husband or children to help. Or a husband who is exponentially more likely to leave you because he has no children with you. Never experiencing the joys of grandchildren. It's terribly sad how many women were conned.

Lord if you are only mid-40s, you sound prematurely ANCIENT. It's no longer a badge of honor to become a grandma at 45, sorry. And the fact that you think anything other than birthing babies is a complete waste of life...is deeply sad. I am sure you didn't mean to imply that Mother Theresa was a wasted life, or any woman or man who's struggled with infertility.

And guess what? If childfree people are stricken with illness in their 30s, 40s, 50s, they will pay for things using their very own health insurance that they get from their jobs, and they will get help from their friends and boyfriends and family members if they need it. It's so sad that you think that the only people who would ever help another human being are their spouses or their children. (Also WTF, I know you had your kids young but I doubt they are much help if you have cancer in your 30s.).

I do think there was a short window in which some women were misled. I am genX born in 1969 and I had more than one PHYSICIAN tell me in my 20s that I could start my family at 40 if I wanted to. This was in the early days of IVF when it looked like fertility could be extended for a lot longer than turned out to be feasible. But by the time I was in my 30s that was no longer any kind of conventional wisdom. I had my first of 3 kids at 34, no regrets.

And for the record, nobody watched sex in the city and thought, I will just have brunch and buy shoes and forget about having meaningful relationships. I didn't watch all of it because it seemed kind of stupid to me, but it was all about angst over husbands and babies with Kim Cattrell as the shocking rebel.

People get laid off left and right starting in their 50s. Good health insurance is harder to hold on to as you increasingly become unemployable (and when you really start to need it most.)

And, I’m sorry, but you’re really fooling yourself if you think that friends—many of whom will be occupied with their own families—are going to be dependable in your most desperate times. As you get older, you start to realize how much you appreciate your partner when you need a catheter bag emptied in the middle of the night, when you need a bandage changed on a part of your back that you can’t possibly reach, etc.

I don't care who has babies. But I'm responding to the above, which I've found sadly true. I had some potentially life-altering, major health complications last year. I was laid up for months. Not one of my close friends, who live IN my neighborhood, so much as brought me a meal, ran an errand, etc. Nothing. Too preoccupied with their own lives, apparently. And, to be clear, these are generally good and kind people. So it was surprising and a little disheartening.

I’m the PP and I’m sorry you’ve had a rough time. I don’t care who has babies, either, so maybe my comment wasn’t entirely pertinent to this thread. But I was responding specifically to the PP, and others in their 20s and 30s, who are very cavalier about marriage, partnering up, family, etc. The “I don’t need anyone to take care of me, I’ve got my job!” and “I don’t need a family of my own, I’ve got my girl squad!” Just saying to you all, good luck with that. I’ve watched a few single, childless people come to some very tragic ends in my extended family.

[Anonymous]

There is a lot of space between rushing to marry the first person who shows interest and waiting until you are even 30 to put it on your radar at all.

And people scoff at doing things in a particular order but there is a reason it has been that way for so long - it generally works!

1. Find a suitable spouse (date long enough for proper research.) and also become financially stable. These two can be happening at the same time.
2. Marry (only after step 1 is complete)
3. Buy a home of some sort or at least have stable housing
4. Have kids

Its when people do things all out of order that things get messed up.

[Anonymous]

My grandma was 39 when she had my mother in 1960. And died at 94. I think she got a chance to get to know her grandchildren.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What the hell do you expect?

Wages don't grow. Housing is completely unaffordable. Childcare costs are insane. Healthcare is ludicrous. Even if you had kids, stupid minivan to haul them around to soccer practice now costs $40k. And don't even talk about college costs....

You want to die in poverty? Have a kid.

Younger generations didn't create these problems. They're the ones that have to live with them though. The only solution is to not have kids just so that you can keep your financial head above water.

It's not money, it's decades of Hollywood and feminist propaganda. It's "cool" and "sophisticated" and "worldly" to piss away your prime fertility years living in the big city and traveling and waiting two hours to be seated for a hip brunch and rising the ladder at your make-work career, so you can piss more money away on shoes, travel, and instagram-worthy furniture. #GirlBoss #LeanIn

Oooooo the anti-brunch guy is back!!! I missed you and your rants against women going to brunch!!!

Is it really a dude? Gross.

I assumed it was a cranky old religious hag.

I'm not a "dude" or a "hag". I'm in my mid 40s, married, mother of three, one grandchild, a meaningful career, and all of my children attended top 25 universities. Play coy that being a wine or martini drunk, and wasting weekends away shopping and brunching weren't a "thing" for women over the last two decades. It's basically the premise of SATC. Waste your 20s and 30s and you'll land a Mr Big. Fertility? Don't worry about it! Have hedonistic fun! Millions of women who should have been married and having babies were wasting their lives on nothing. Pointless consumerism, and now, nothing to show for it. No heirs, no legacy, nobody will remember them. Genetic dead ends. Never mind end of life, imagine being stricken with an illness in your 30s 40s 50s and no husband or children to help. Or a husband who is exponentially more likely to leave you because he has no children with you. Never experiencing the joys of grandchildren. It's terribly sad how many women were conned.

Lord if you are only mid-40s, you sound prematurely ANCIENT. It's no longer a badge of honor to become a grandma at 45, sorry. And the fact that you think anything other than birthing babies is a complete waste of life...is deeply sad. I am sure you didn't mean to imply that Mother Theresa was a wasted life, or any woman or man who's struggled with infertility.

And guess what? If childfree people are stricken with illness in their 30s, 40s, 50s, they will pay for things using their very own health insurance that they get from their jobs, and they will get help from their friends and boyfriends and family members if they need it. It's so sad that you think that the only people who would ever help another human being are their spouses or their children. (Also WTF, I know you had your kids young but I doubt they are much help if you have cancer in your 30s.).

I do think there was a short window in which some women were misled. I am genX born in 1969 and I had more than one PHYSICIAN tell me in my 20s that I could start my family at 40 if I wanted to. This was in the early days of IVF when it looked like fertility could be extended for a lot longer than turned out to be feasible. But by the time I was in my 30s that was no longer any kind of conventional wisdom. I had my first of 3 kids at 34, no regrets.

And for the record, nobody watched sex in the city and thought, I will just have brunch and buy shoes and forget about having meaningful relationships. I didn't watch all of it because it seemed kind of stupid to me, but it was all about angst over husbands and babies with Kim Cattrell as the shocking rebel.

People get laid off left and right starting in their 50s. Good health insurance is harder to hold on to as you increasingly become unemployable (and when you really start to need it most.)

And, I’m sorry, but you’re really fooling yourself if you think that friends—many of whom will be occupied with their own families—are going to be dependable in your most desperate times. As you get older, you start to realize how much you appreciate your partner when you need a catheter bag emptied in the middle of the night, when you need a bandage changed on a part of your back that you can’t possibly reach, etc.

I don't care who has babies. But I'm responding to the above, which I've found sadly true. I had some potentially life-altering, major health complications last year. I was laid up for months. Not one of my close friends, who live IN my neighborhood, so much as brought me a meal, ran an errand, etc. Nothing. Too preoccupied with their own lives, apparently. And, to be clear, these are generally good and kind people. So it was surprising and a little disheartening.

I’m the PP and I’m sorry you’ve had a rough time. I don’t care who has babies, either, so maybe my comment wasn’t entirely pertinent to this thread. But I was responding specifically to the PP, and others in their 20s and 30s, who are very cavalier about marriage, partnering up, family, etc. The “I don’t need anyone to take care of me, I’ve got my job!” and “I don’t need a family of my own, I’ve got my girl squad!” Just saying to you all, good luck with that. I’ve watched a few single, childless people come to some very tragic ends in my extended family.

But getting married and having children is NOT insurance against having a "tragic" end! One of the spouses will die first! If you live long enough, some of your CHILDREN might even predecease you. I know a lot of child-free and unmarried folks, and they're not cavalier about their life choices, at all. Some would have liked to get married but never met the right person. One met the right one but he didn't want kids. They are very happy together with their dogs and zillions of nieces and nephews. One friend was widowed at age 45.

The point is that there are no guarantees in life, so everyone needs to make the best decisions they can. I've lived long enough to see that your "support network" can include a variety of types of people and relationships. Also I've seen first hand how excellent and careful retirement planning makes an ENORMOUS difference when people get really old and/or sick.

[Anonymous]

I am glad I didn't marry anybody I was dating in my early 20s. I was so immature and irresponsible, imagine adding a husband and babies on top of me not even understanding how credit cards worked or how to pay utilities?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What the hell do you expect?

Wages don't grow. Housing is completely unaffordable. Childcare costs are insane. Healthcare is ludicrous. Even if you had kids, stupid minivan to haul them around to soccer practice now costs $40k. And don't even talk about college costs....

You want to die in poverty? Have a kid.

Younger generations didn't create these problems. They're the ones that have to live with them though. The only solution is to not have kids just so that you can keep your financial head above water.

It's not money, it's decades of Hollywood and feminist propaganda. It's "cool" and "sophisticated" and "worldly" to piss away your prime fertility years living in the big city and traveling and waiting two hours to be seated for a hip brunch and rising the ladder at your make-work career, so you can piss more money away on shoes, travel, and instagram-worthy furniture. #GirlBoss #LeanIn

Oooooo the anti-brunch guy is back!!! I missed you and your rants against women going to brunch!!!

Is it really a dude? Gross.

I assumed it was a cranky old religious hag.

I'm not a "dude" or a "hag". I'm in my mid 40s, married, mother of three, one grandchild, a meaningful career, and all of my children attended top 25 universities. Play coy that being a wine or martini drunk, and wasting weekends away shopping and brunching weren't a "thing" for women over the last two decades. It's basically the premise of SATC. Waste your 20s and 30s and you'll land a Mr Big. Fertility? Don't worry about it! Have hedonistic fun! Millions of women who should have been married and having babies were wasting their lives on nothing. Pointless consumerism, and now, nothing to show for it. No heirs, no legacy, nobody will remember them. Genetic dead ends. Never mind end of life, imagine being stricken with an illness in your 30s 40s 50s and no husband or children to help. Or a husband who is exponentially more likely to leave you because he has no children with you. Never experiencing the joys of grandchildren. It's terribly sad how many women were conned.

Lord if you are only mid-40s, you sound prematurely ANCIENT. It's no longer a badge of honor to become a grandma at 45, sorry. And the fact that you think anything other than birthing babies is a complete waste of life...is deeply sad. I am sure you didn't mean to imply that Mother Theresa was a wasted life, or any woman or man who's struggled with infertility.

And guess what? If childfree people are stricken with illness in their 30s, 40s, 50s, they will pay for things using their very own health insurance that they get from their jobs, and they will get help from their friends and boyfriends and family members if they need it. It's so sad that you think that the only people who would ever help another human being are their spouses or their children. (Also WTF, I know you had your kids young but I doubt they are much help if you have cancer in your 30s.).

I do think there was a short window in which some women were misled. I am genX born in 1969 and I had more than one PHYSICIAN tell me in my 20s that I could start my family at 40 if I wanted to. This was in the early days of IVF when it looked like fertility could be extended for a lot longer than turned out to be feasible. But by the time I was in my 30s that was no longer any kind of conventional wisdom. I had my first of 3 kids at 34, no regrets.

And for the record, nobody watched sex in the city and thought, I will just have brunch and buy shoes and forget about having meaningful relationships. I didn't watch all of it because it seemed kind of stupid to me, but it was all about angst over husbands and babies with Kim Cattrell as the shocking rebel.

People get laid off left and right starting in their 50s. Good health insurance is harder to hold on to as you increasingly become unemployable (and when you really start to need it most.)

And, I’m sorry, but you’re really fooling yourself if you think that friends—many of whom will be occupied with their own families—are going to be dependable in your most desperate times. As you get older, you start to realize how much you appreciate your partner when you need a catheter bag emptied in the middle of the night, when you need a bandage changed on a part of your back that you can’t possibly reach, etc.

I don't care who has babies. But I'm responding to the above, which I've found sadly true. I had some potentially life-altering, major health complications last year. I was laid up for months. Not one of my close friends, who live IN my neighborhood, so much as brought me a meal, ran an errand, etc. Nothing. Too preoccupied with their own lives, apparently. And, to be clear, these are generally good and kind people. So it was surprising and a little disheartening.

I’m the PP and I’m sorry you’ve had a rough time. I don’t care who has babies, either, so maybe my comment wasn’t entirely pertinent to this thread. But I was responding specifically to the PP, and others in their 20s and 30s, who are very cavalier about marriage, partnering up, family, etc. The “I don’t need anyone to take care of me, I’ve got my job!” and “I don’t need a family of my own, I’ve got my girl squad!” Just saying to you all, good luck with that. I’ve watched a few single, childless people come to some very tragic ends in my extended family.

You need better friends. When my friends need help we start a food delivery sked, with a rotation to make sure they are cared for whatever their marital or other status.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am glad I didn't marry anybody I was dating in my early 20s. I was so immature and irresponsible, imagine adding a husband and babies on top of me not even understanding how credit cards worked or how to pay utilities?

Marriage and kid(s) force you to grow up faster. My dad 50 years ago was sort of a slacker, he immediately quit chain smoking cigarettes and drinking, and started his own company when I was born.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am glad I didn't marry anybody I was dating in my early 20s. I was so immature and irresponsible, imagine adding a husband and babies on top of me not even understanding how credit cards worked or how to pay utilities?

Marriage and kid(s) force you to grow up faster. My dad 50 years ago was sort of a slacker, he immediately quit chain smoking cigarettes and drinking, and started his own company when I was born.

you realize... that's not how it works for everyone

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What the hell do you expect?

Wages don't grow. Housing is completely unaffordable. Childcare costs are insane. Healthcare is ludicrous. Even if you had kids, stupid minivan to haul them around to soccer practice now costs $40k. And don't even talk about college costs....

You want to die in poverty? Have a kid.

Younger generations didn't create these problems. They're the ones that have to live with them though. The only solution is to not have kids just so that you can keep your financial head above water.

It's not money, it's decades of Hollywood and feminist propaganda. It's "cool" and "sophisticated" and "worldly" to piss away your prime fertility years living in the big city and traveling and waiting two hours to be seated for a hip brunch and rising the ladder at your make-work career, so you can piss more money away on shoes, travel, and instagram-worthy furniture. #GirlBoss #LeanIn

And another thing, if money is so tight, why does basically every gal under age 40 on my Facebook have a master's or law degree? Racking up six-figures of debt and flushing two to three years of peak fertility down the drain on a worthless overpriced degree, which they seek for status purposes.

Wow I got a law degree in my 20s and am still practicing decades later. So I got my degree not for status purposes, or to attract a mate, but to, you know, earn a living. Is that okay, or are only men allowed to get master's level degrees?

Men nor women should be wasting their prime in these pointless scam higher-ed programs, but it's worth noting men are in fact far less likely in 2022 to seek a pointless graduate degree. You're free to google the countless articles and data on this. Women are wasting their money and biological clock in these two and three year programs, then they need to find a #GirlBoss career to service the six figures of student loan debt, so that's more years wasted. And of course, men don't have a narrow reproductive window. #Science

I’m a few pages behind, so not sure whether anyone else has commented, but men absolutely do face declining fertility as they age. Their dropoff doesn’t start till age 40 (equivalent to women at 35), but both quantity and quality of sperm drops noticeably every year after that.

https://www.livescience.com/24196-male-fertility-limit.html

[Anonymous]

I worry for my two daughters. My husband and I were so lucky to meet in college and marry in our mid 20's. Had our first at 28 after we bought a townhouse. It all felt right to us and not rushed. I don't regret anything. I know we are fortunate but I desperately wish the same for our daughters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am glad I didn't marry anybody I was dating in my early 20s. I was so immature and irresponsible, imagine adding a husband and babies on top of me not even understanding how credit cards worked or how to pay utilities?

Marriage and kid(s) force you to grow up faster. My dad 50 years ago was sort of a slacker, he immediately quit chain smoking cigarettes and drinking, and started his own company when I was born.

you realize... that's not how it works for everyone

Maybe not for the trash on Maury and daytime court shows. But it was like that for literally every MC and UMC parent I know. The first kid is an immediate I have to get my sh*t together, stop being so self-indulgent, and bust my butt providing them a good present and future. Meanwhile those without a child are still "figuring themselves out" on vacations and brunches, loafing through life with a puppy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I’m a few pages behind, so not sure whether anyone else has commented, but men absolutely do face declining fertility as they age. Their dropoff doesn’t start till age 40 (equivalent to women at 35), but both quantity and quality of sperm drops noticeably every year after that.

https://www.livescience.com/24196-male-fertility-limit.html

Oh, okay, dear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am glad I didn't marry anybody I was dating in my early 20s. I was so immature and irresponsible, imagine adding a husband and babies on top of me not even understanding how credit cards worked or how to pay utilities?

+1 I was very responsible financially, but emotionally, I was so immature. I was not ready to get married, let alone be a parent. Yikes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am glad I didn't marry anybody I was dating in my early 20s. I was so immature and irresponsible, imagine adding a husband and babies on top of me not even understanding how credit cards worked or how to pay utilities?

Marriage and kid(s) force you to grow up faster. My dad 50 years ago was sort of a slacker, he immediately quit chain smoking cigarettes and drinking, and started his own company when I was born.

For every unemployed drunk who does get it together, there’s a dozen who continue drinking and slacking off after the kid arrives, and mom is trying to keep everything together. Just read the threads here - how many are about incompetent men who can’t even handle picking up a child from school?