Half of British women reach age 30 without having a child

[Anonymous]

I want to know what Brunch Lady thinks about me…met my husband at 25, married at 27, pregnant at 29 on our first try. But that was it — we chose to be one and done.

[Anonymous]

I know people are just responding to brunch granny, buy beyond the inflammatory trolling, there is a grain of truth there. The 21st century economy is incompatible with raising kids with two parents in the workforce. As a result, the birth rate will continue to decline. I would love it if our society didn’t view anyone over 40 as “past it,” allowing women to have children young *if they want* and then having a career later.

I have three and needed IVF for 2. I would have loved to have 4, but it was impossible. In our 20s, my husband and I were struggling with student loans and trying to get jobs. It’s only gotten worse.

[Anonymous]

Well done British women.

The Irish will help keep your part of the world populated …

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also she brags about her 21 year old daughter who married a med student. So old school. I would rather that my daughter was the doctor, not the doctors wife.

Old school - and I'd never wish this on anyone, but it's not exactly rare for med students to dump the spouses they had in school and marry someone richer once they are actually doctors. Hopefully brunch granny's kid won't run into that but - ya know. Hold off crowing that you've got everything figured out for all time, for a while, eh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What the hell do you expect?

Wages don't grow. Housing is completely unaffordable. Childcare costs are insane. Healthcare is ludicrous. Even if you had kids, stupid minivan to haul them around to soccer practice now costs $40k. And don't even talk about college costs....

You want to die in poverty? Have a kid.

Younger generations didn't create these problems. They're the ones that have to live with them though. The only solution is to not have kids just so that you can keep your financial head above water.

It's not money, it's decades of Hollywood and feminist propaganda. It's "cool" and "sophisticated" and "worldly" to piss away your prime fertility years living in the big city and traveling and waiting two hours to be seated for a hip brunch and rising the ladder at your make-work career, so you can piss more money away on shoes, travel, and instagram-worthy furniture. #GirlBoss #LeanIn

Oooooo the anti-brunch guy is back!!! I missed you and your rants against women going to brunch!!!

Is it really a dude? Gross.

I assumed it was a cranky old religious hag.

I'm not a "dude" or a "hag". I'm in my mid 40s, married, mother of three, one grandchild, a meaningful career, and all of my children attended top 25 universities. Play coy that being a wine or martini drunk, and wasting weekends away shopping and brunching weren't a "thing" for women over the last two decades. It's basically the premise of SATC. Waste your 20s and 30s and you'll land a Mr Big. Fertility? Don't worry about it! Have hedonistic fun! Millions of women who should have been married and having babies were wasting their lives on nothing. Pointless consumerism, and now, nothing to show for it. No heirs, no legacy, nobody will remember them. Genetic dead ends. Never mind end of life, imagine being stricken with an illness in your 30s 40s 50s and no husband or children to help. Or a husband who is exponentially more likely to leave you because he has no children with you. Never experiencing the joys of grandchildren. It's terribly sad how many women were conned.

Lord if you are only mid-40s, you sound prematurely ANCIENT. It's no longer a badge of honor to become a grandma at 45, sorry. And the fact that you think anything other than birthing babies is a complete waste of life...is deeply sad. I am sure you didn't mean to imply that Mother Theresa was a wasted life, or any woman or man who's struggled with infertility.

And guess what? If childfree people are stricken with illness in their 30s, 40s, 50s, they will pay for things using their very own health insurance that they get from their jobs, and they will get help from their friends and boyfriends and family members if they need it. It's so sad that you think that the only people who would ever help another human being are their spouses or their children. (Also WTF, I know you had your kids young but I doubt they are much help if you have cancer in your 30s.).

I do think there was a short window in which some women were misled. I am genX born in 1969 and I had more than one PHYSICIAN tell me in my 20s that I could start my family at 40 if I wanted to. This was in the early days of IVF when it looked like fertility could be extended for a lot longer than turned out to be feasible. But by the time I was in my 30s that was no longer any kind of conventional wisdom. I had my first of 3 kids at 34, no regrets.

And for the record, nobody watched sex in the city and thought, I will just have brunch and buy shoes and forget about having meaningful relationships. I didn't watch all of it because it seemed kind of stupid to me, but it was all about angst over husbands and babies with Kim Cattrell as the shocking rebel.

People get laid off left and right starting in their 50s. Good health insurance is harder to hold on to as you increasingly become unemployable (and when you really start to need it most.)

And, I’m sorry, but you’re really fooling yourself if you think that friends—many of whom will be occupied with their own families—are going to be dependable in your most desperate times. As you get older, you start to realize how much you appreciate your partner when you need a catheter bag emptied in the middle of the night, when you need a bandage changed on a part of your back that you can’t possibly reach, etc.

Er, you are conflating so many things. A spouse and/or children are not a life or health insurance policy. They cannot protect you from ageism in the workplace. One spouse will always predecease the other, usually the man dying first. Who changes the catheter bag for the surviving wife? Very few adult children can be a full-time caregiver for elderly parents. The things you cite as issues facing older people are real, but the answer is NOT to forgo education and career in favor of having ever greater numbers of children who you *hope* will marry spouses with good professional careers.

Kids are expensive, and many of us have calculated that we can't support large families while still planning for retirement and the future health challenges you cite. People who have one or two kids, even later in life, are still able to experience the joy and fullfillment of parenthood. And yes, also have the occasional brunch or nice vacation along the way.

[Anonymous]

I haven’t met a woman with kids who had them under thirty in years. I can’t even recall. Years ago, like people in the 90s maybe a few. And that girl from high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t met a woman with kids who had them under thirty in years. I can’t even recall. Years ago, like people in the 90s maybe a few. And that girl from high school.

I know plenty. And it is fine. I also know many women who waited until their 30s. I did. I had zero desire to have children until then. No need for IVF or any interventions. Women should make their own choices. People who weigh in on the choice of others are weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also she brags about her 21 year old daughter who married a med student. So old school. I would rather that my daughter was the doctor, not the doctors wife.

Old school - and I'd never wish this on anyone, but it's not exactly rare for med students to dump the spouses they had in school and marry someone richer once they are actually doctors. Hopefully brunch granny's kid won't run into that but - ya know. Hold off crowing that you've got everything figured out for all time, for a while, eh?

Where did granny say 21? I read after graduating from college, which is 22 or 23. Probably 23 since most public school teachers, which granny said her daughter is, require a master’s in education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t met a woman with kids who had them under thirty in years. I can’t even recall. Years ago, like people in the 90s maybe a few. And that girl from high school.

I know plenty. And it is fine. I also know many women who waited until their 30s. I did. I had zero desire to have children until then. No need for IVF or any interventions. Women should make their own choices. People who weigh in on the choice of others are weird.

I know some under 30, but they're the 27, 28, 29 side of 30. Not the 21, 22, 23 under 30 Brunch Gran seems so proud of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well done British women.

The Irish will help keep your part of the world populated …

Your information is outdated. Ireland is no longer the fecund, priest-ridden country of yore.
Their fertility rate is 1.7...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also she brags about her 21 year old daughter who married a med student. So old school. I would rather that my daughter was the doctor, not the doctors wife.

Old school - and I'd never wish this on anyone, but it's not exactly rare for med students to dump the spouses they had in school and marry someone richer once they are actually doctors. Hopefully brunch granny's kid won't run into that but - ya know. Hold off crowing that you've got everything figured out for all time, for a while, eh?

Right?! All of this is true and I feel the same- I'd actually be very disappointed that I had a daughter with no desire to live as an independent adult even for a minute who jumped right into making a man her plan, but this woman also thinks men don't leave women who keep giving them kids so I guess that's the "insurance policy" they're operating under here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also she brags about her 21 year old daughter who married a med student. So old school. I would rather that my daughter was the doctor, not the doctors wife.

Old school - and I'd never wish this on anyone, but it's not exactly rare for med students to dump the spouses they had in school and marry someone richer once they are actually doctors. Hopefully brunch granny's kid won't run into that but - ya know. Hold off crowing that you've got everything figured out for all time, for a while, eh?

Right?! All of this is true and I feel the same- I'd actually be very disappointed that I had a daughter with no desire to live as an independent adult even for a minute who jumped right into making a man her plan, but this woman also thinks men don't leave women who keep giving them kids so I guess that's the "insurance policy" they're operating under here.

That's why you never see any single mothers! Ever!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What the hell do you expect?

Wages don't grow. Housing is completely unaffordable. Childcare costs are insane. Healthcare is ludicrous. Even if you had kids, stupid minivan to haul them around to soccer practice now costs $40k. And don't even talk about college costs....

You want to die in poverty? Have a kid.

Younger generations didn't create these problems. They're the ones that have to live with them though. The only solution is to not have kids just so that you can keep your financial head above water.

It's not money, it's decades of Hollywood and feminist propaganda. It's "cool" and "sophisticated" and "worldly" to piss away your prime fertility years living in the big city and traveling and waiting two hours to be seated for a hip brunch and rising the ladder at your make-work career, so you can piss more money away on shoes, travel, and instagram-worthy furniture. #GirlBoss #LeanIn

Oooooo the anti-brunch guy is back!!! I missed you and your rants against women going to brunch!!!

Is it really a dude? Gross.

I assumed it was a cranky old religious hag.

I'm not a "dude" or a "hag". I'm in my mid 40s, married, mother of three, one grandchild, a meaningful career, and all of my children attended top 25 universities. Play coy that being a wine or martini drunk, and wasting weekends away shopping and brunching weren't a "thing" for women over the last two decades. It's basically the premise of SATC. Waste your 20s and 30s and you'll land a Mr Big. Fertility? Don't worry about it! Have hedonistic fun! Millions of women who should have been married and having babies were wasting their lives on nothing. Pointless consumerism, and now, nothing to show for it. No heirs, no legacy, nobody will remember them. Genetic dead ends. Never mind end of life, imagine being stricken with an illness in your 30s 40s 50s and no husband or children to help. Or a husband who is exponentially more likely to leave you because he has no children with you. Never experiencing the joys of grandchildren. It's terribly sad how many women were conned.

Lord if you are only mid-40s, you sound prematurely ANCIENT. It's no longer a badge of honor to become a grandma at 45, sorry. And the fact that you think anything other than birthing babies is a complete waste of life...is deeply sad. I am sure you didn't mean to imply that Mother Theresa was a wasted life, or any woman or man who's struggled with infertility.

And guess what? If childfree people are stricken with illness in their 30s, 40s, 50s, they will pay for things using their very own health insurance that they get from their jobs, and they will get help from their friends and boyfriends and family members if they need it. It's so sad that you think that the only people who would ever help another human being are their spouses or their children. (Also WTF, I know you had your kids young but I doubt they are much help if you have cancer in your 30s.).

I do think there was a short window in which some women were misled. I am genX born in 1969 and I had more than one PHYSICIAN tell me in my 20s that I could start my family at 40 if I wanted to. This was in the early days of IVF when it looked like fertility could be extended for a lot longer than turned out to be feasible. But by the time I was in my 30s that was no longer any kind of conventional wisdom. I had my first of 3 kids at 34, no regrets.

And for the record, nobody watched sex in the city and thought, I will just have brunch and buy shoes and forget about having meaningful relationships. I didn't watch all of it because it seemed kind of stupid to me, but it was all about angst over husbands and babies with Kim Cattrell as the shocking rebel.

People get laid off left and right starting in their 50s. Good health insurance is harder to hold on to as you increasingly become unemployable (and when you really start to need it most.)

And, I’m sorry, but you’re really fooling yourself if you think that friends—many of whom will be occupied with their own families—are going to be dependable in your most desperate times. As you get older, you start to realize how much you appreciate your partner when you need a catheter bag emptied in the middle of the night, when you need a bandage changed on a part of your back that you can’t possibly reach, etc.

I don't care who has babies. But I'm responding to the above, which I've found sadly true. I had some potentially life-altering, major health complications last year. I was laid up for months. Not one of my close friends, who live IN my neighborhood, so much as brought me a meal, ran an errand, etc. Nothing. Too preoccupied with their own lives, apparently. And, to be clear, these are generally good and kind people. So it was surprising and a little disheartening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What the hell do you expect?

Wages don't grow. Housing is completely unaffordable. Childcare costs are insane. Healthcare is ludicrous. Even if you had kids, stupid minivan to haul them around to soccer practice now costs $40k. And don't even talk about college costs....

You want to die in poverty? Have a kid.

Younger generations didn't create these problems. They're the ones that have to live with them though. The only solution is to not have kids just so that you can keep your financial head above water.

It's not money, it's decades of Hollywood and feminist propaganda. It's "cool" and "sophisticated" and "worldly" to piss away your prime fertility years living in the big city and traveling and waiting two hours to be seated for a hip brunch and rising the ladder at your make-work career, so you can piss more money away on shoes, travel, and instagram-worthy furniture. #GirlBoss #LeanIn

Oooooo the anti-brunch guy is back!!! I missed you and your rants against women going to brunch!!!

Is it really a dude? Gross.

I assumed it was a cranky old religious hag.

I'm not a "dude" or a "hag". I'm in my mid 40s, married, mother of three, one grandchild, a meaningful career, and all of my children attended top 25 universities. Play coy that being a wine or martini drunk, and wasting weekends away shopping and brunching weren't a "thing" for women over the last two decades. It's basically the premise of SATC. Waste your 20s and 30s and you'll land a Mr Big. Fertility? Don't worry about it! Have hedonistic fun! Millions of women who should have been married and having babies were wasting their lives on nothing. Pointless consumerism, and now, nothing to show for it. No heirs, no legacy, nobody will remember them. Genetic dead ends. Never mind end of life, imagine being stricken with an illness in your 30s 40s 50s and no husband or children to help. Or a husband who is exponentially more likely to leave you because he has no children with you. Never experiencing the joys of grandchildren. It's terribly sad how many women were conned.

Lord if you are only mid-40s, you sound prematurely ANCIENT. It's no longer a badge of honor to become a grandma at 45, sorry. And the fact that you think anything other than birthing babies is a complete waste of life...is deeply sad. I am sure you didn't mean to imply that Mother Theresa was a wasted life, or any woman or man who's struggled with infertility.

And guess what? If childfree people are stricken with illness in their 30s, 40s, 50s, they will pay for things using their very own health insurance that they get from their jobs, and they will get help from their friends and boyfriends and family members if they need it. It's so sad that you think that the only people who would ever help another human being are their spouses or their children. (Also WTF, I know you had your kids young but I doubt they are much help if you have cancer in your 30s.).

I do think there was a short window in which some women were misled. I am genX born in 1969 and I had more than one PHYSICIAN tell me in my 20s that I could start my family at 40 if I wanted to. This was in the early days of IVF when it looked like fertility could be extended for a lot longer than turned out to be feasible. But by the time I was in my 30s that was no longer any kind of conventional wisdom. I had my first of 3 kids at 34, no regrets.

And for the record, nobody watched sex in the city and thought, I will just have brunch and buy shoes and forget about having meaningful relationships. I didn't watch all of it because it seemed kind of stupid to me, but it was all about angst over husbands and babies with Kim Cattrell as the shocking rebel.

People get laid off left and right starting in their 50s. Good health insurance is harder to hold on to as you increasingly become unemployable (and when you really start to need it most.)

And, I’m sorry, but you’re really fooling yourself if you think that friends—many of whom will be occupied with their own families—are going to be dependable in your most desperate times. As you get older, you start to realize how much you appreciate your partner when you need a catheter bag emptied in the middle of the night, when you need a bandage changed on a part of your back that you can’t possibly reach, etc.

I don't care who has babies. But I'm responding to the above, which I've found sadly true. I had some potentially life-altering, major health complications last year. I was laid up for months. Not one of my close friends, who live IN my neighborhood, so much as brought me a meal, ran an errand, etc. Nothing. Too preoccupied with their own lives, apparently. And, to be clear, these are generally good and kind people. So it was surprising and a little disheartening.

I am so sorry. I know the past couple of years have been very rough on some folks and caused some real challenges even with taking care of one's immediate family. Ironically, given the topic of this thread, those folks without kids might find themselves with time to help out while those with little kids are drowning. Telework meant that I could go hang out with my friend after her surgery just to help out with cooking, shopping, cleaning up and pet care.

[Anonymous]

Developing countries learn to deal and manage the mouths they have to feed. They deal with stress better. They try not to avoid the stress of childrearing. Then again. the whole village takes care of the kids, not just the mom and or dad.