Banneker versus School Without Walls

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Outrageously racist posts pointing out that Asians need to score much higher on standardized test than AAs to get into the same colleges, even where applicants are similar in terms of SES. Study after academic study has reached this conclusion in the last two decades, starting with the National Survey of College Experience in 2009. See Espenshade and Walton. When Asians are accused of being "obsessed" with standardized test scores, as they have been on this thread, you might want to put yourself in their shoes for a minute if you're not Asian-American to ask why.

https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691141602/no-longer-separate-not-yet-equal

Again, admittance to college is based on many factors NOT just SAT scores. By your argument, you should support colleges and universities doing away with SAT/ACT tests since they are used against Asian students. Also are you suggesting that AA students don’t belong there?

[Anonymous]

I briefly worked in college admissions, at an elite college you've heard of admitting no more than 20% of applicants annually.

At this college, which hasn't gone test-optional, applications in the "general" pool (not recruited athletes or other special cases) weren't reviewed in full if the applicant hadn't met a standardized test "floor." If an American applicant wasn't a member of an underserved minority group, or a first generation college applicant, the SAT/AP/IB Diploma exam score "floor" for the application was much higher if not. It's common practice in elite college admissions to screen applicants for standardized test scores before tossing an application into either the "read in full" pile or the "no further review" pile. Colleges don't publicize the practice, but it's hardly a secret.

You can take umbrage with Asian-American families who fixate on scoring high on SATs, but the fact is that they need to do this in order for their college-bound young people to submit applications that have a shot of being taken seriously at elite colleges. I don't care for race-based admissions practices but am fine with class-based practices, leading me to hope that the Supreme Court beats back all forms of race-based admissions soon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I briefly worked in college admissions, at an elite college you've heard of admitting no more than 20% of applicants annually.

At this college, which hasn't gone test-optional, applications in the "general" pool (not recruited athletes or other special cases) weren't reviewed in full if the applicant hadn't met a standardized test "floor." If an American applicant wasn't a member of an underserved minority group, or a first generation college applicant, the SAT/AP/IB Diploma exam score "floor" for the application was much higher if not. It's common practice in elite college admissions to screen applicants for standardized test scores before tossing an application into either the "read in full" pile or the "no further review" pile. Colleges don't publicize the practice, but it's hardly a secret.

You can take umbrage with Asian-American families who fixate on scoring high on SATs, but the fact is that they need to do this in order for their college-bound young people to submit applications that have a shot of being taken seriously at elite colleges. I don't care for race-based admissions practices but am fine with class-based practices, leading me to hope that the Supreme Court beats back all forms of race-based admissions soon.

But Asian students aren’t the only ones being rejected. You do realize that not everyone can go to an elite college. Those spots aren’t guaranteed for any ethnic group or race. The elites colleges are largely private and can admit whomever they choose. Additionally, do you know of any Asian students who didn’t get accepted anywhere and didn’t go to college because of it? Your post comes off as someone stamping your feet because you didn’t get into an Ivy and had to “settle” for Duke and you blame AA student for it.

You assume that admittance slots that “belong” to Asians are given to others who are dumb and haven’t “earned” them. I think that is what bothers me about your post.

[Anonymous]

I'm white and graduated from an Ivy. My spouse is Asian and also graduated from an Ivy. We come from working-class backgrounds/first generation college.

The day when elite American colleges can admit whomever they want, however they want, seems to be drawing to a close. Harvard didn't have an easy time of it from 2014-2018 with the Students for Fair Admissions suit, although technically the university was cleared. Harvard's admission rates for Asians has risen by at least 5 percentage points since 2014. Now Edward Blum's Project on Fair Representation has Chapel Hill in its sights. A ruling beating back consideration of race in admissions at a public university would set the tone for private institutions if a precedent assailing affirmative action is established. I'd wager that this Court will go at Chapel Hill in a couple of years. Private colleges and universities in this country aren't entirely private of course, being dependent on government grants and subsidized student loan programs to survive.

The days when AA students can be admitted to elite colleges, both public and private, with SAT scores that are, on average, 400 points lower than those of Asian applicants appear numbered due to Trump's SC appointments. It might behoove the Banneker community to take note.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm white and graduated from an Ivy. My spouse is Asian and also graduated from an Ivy. We come from working-class backgrounds/first generation college.

The day when elite American colleges can admit whomever they want, however they want, seems to be drawing to a close. Harvard didn't have an easy time of it from 2014-2018 with the Students for Fair Admissions suit, although technically the university was cleared. Harvard's admission rates for Asians has risen by at least 5 percentage points since 2014. Now Edward Blum's Project on Fair Representation has Chapel Hill in its sights. A ruling beating back consideration of race in admissions at a public university would set the tone for private institutions if a precedent assailing affirmative action is established. I'd wager that this Court will go at Chapel Hill in a couple of years. Private colleges and universities in this country aren't entirely private of course, being dependent on government grants and subsidized student loan programs to survive.

The days when AA students can be admitted to elite colleges, both public and private, with SAT scores that are, on average, 400 points lower than those of Asian applicants appear numbered due to Trump's SC appointments. It might behoove the Banneker community to take note.

Sorry, but the resumes of many Trump admin alum has kind of ruined me giving a shit about any inherent value to an Ivy league education. There are many excellent colleges and universities without the weird self-important pedigree.

[Anonymous]

Pedigree isn't the issue, the future of affirmative action is, particularly in college admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm white and graduated from an Ivy. My spouse is Asian and also graduated from an Ivy. We come from working-class backgrounds/first generation college.

The day when elite American colleges can admit whomever they want, however they want, seems to be drawing to a close. Harvard didn't have an easy time of it from 2014-2018 with the Students for Fair Admissions suit, although technically the university was cleared. Harvard's admission rates for Asians has risen by at least 5 percentage points since 2014. Now Edward Blum's Project on Fair Representation has Chapel Hill in its sights. A ruling beating back consideration of race in admissions at a public university would set the tone for private institutions if a precedent assailing affirmative action is established. I'd wager that this Court will go at Chapel Hill in a couple of years. Private colleges and universities in this country aren't entirely private of course, being dependent on government grants and subsidized student loan programs to survive.

The days when AA students can be admitted to elite colleges, both public and private, with SAT scores that are, on average, 400 points lower than those of Asian applicants appear numbered due to Trump's SC appointments. It might behoove the Banneker community to take note.

But why don’t you go after the rich white families with legacy status and low test scores with this much vitriol? I don’t get it. I mean I get it that you have something against AA students that’s crystal clear. AA student still make up a very small percentage of Ivy League and top tier admittance. Yet this seems to be the population with which you have some weird fixation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm white and graduated from an Ivy. My spouse is Asian and also graduated from an Ivy. We come from working-class backgrounds/first generation college.

The day when elite American colleges can admit whomever they want, however they want, seems to be drawing to a close. Harvard didn't have an easy time of it from 2014-2018 with the Students for Fair Admissions suit, although technically the university was cleared. Harvard's admission rates for Asians has risen by at least 5 percentage points since 2014. Now Edward Blum's Project on Fair Representation has Chapel Hill in its sights. A ruling beating back consideration of race in admissions at a public university would set the tone for private institutions if a precedent assailing affirmative action is established. I'd wager that this Court will go at Chapel Hill in a couple of years. Private colleges and universities in this country aren't entirely private of course, being dependent on government grants and subsidized student loan programs to survive.

The days when AA students can be admitted to elite colleges, both public and private, with SAT scores that are, on average, 400 points lower than those of Asian applicants appear numbered due to Trump's SC appointments. It might behoove the Banneker community to take note.

I’m hoping that is what will push universities and college from requiring standardized test scores. Problem solved.

[Anonymous]

No brainer. It's unfair to AA applicants that the adults in charge don't need to bother to ensure that they get the education to hit the ground running at the nation's best colleges and universities. Giving them a pass on foundational academics isn't the answer. Not fair to low SES Asians that they need to score hundreds of points higher than other groups. I don't care for legacy admissions either. Nothing more to say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No brainer. It's unfair to AA applicants that the adults in charge don't need to bother to ensure that they get the education to hit the ground running at the nation's best colleges and universities. Giving them a pass on foundational academics isn't the answer. Not fair to low SES Asians that they need to score hundreds of points higher than other groups. I don't care for legacy admissions either. Nothing more to say.

Honey, life isn’t fair for anyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No brainer. It's unfair to AA applicants that the adults in charge don't need to bother to ensure that they get the education to hit the ground running at the nation's best colleges and universities. Giving them a pass on foundational academics isn't the answer. Not fair to low SES Asians that they need to score hundreds of points higher than other groups. I don't care for legacy admissions either. Nothing more to say.

Banneker student do well at college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm white and graduated from an Ivy. My spouse is Asian and also graduated from an Ivy. We come from working-class backgrounds/first generation college.

The day when elite American colleges can admit whomever they want, however they want, seems to be drawing to a close. Harvard didn't have an easy time of it from 2014-2018 with the Students for Fair Admissions suit, although technically the university was cleared. Harvard's admission rates for Asians has risen by at least 5 percentage points since 2014. Now Edward Blum's Project on Fair Representation has Chapel Hill in its sights. A ruling beating back consideration of race in admissions at a public university would set the tone for private institutions if a precedent assailing affirmative action is established. I'd wager that this Court will go at Chapel Hill in a couple of years. Private colleges and universities in this country aren't entirely private of course, being dependent on government grants and subsidized student loan programs to survive.

The days when AA students can be admitted to elite colleges, both public and private, with SAT scores that are, on average, 400 points lower than those of Asian applicants appear numbered due to Trump's SC appointments. It might behoove the Banneker community to take note.

But why don’t you go after the rich white families with legacy status and low test scores with this much vitriol? I don’t get it. I mean I get it that you have something against AA students that’s crystal clear. AA student still make up a very small percentage of Ivy League and top tier admittance. Yet this seems to be the population with which you have some weird fixation.

Not PP you're responding to, but in fact AA students are OVER-represented at some elite schools, including some Ivies, compared to their percentage of the overall population: https://www.jbhe.com/2021/04/blacks-make-up-18-percent-of-admitted-students-at-harvard-university/

I don't have a problem with that so long as they had to meet the same admissions requirements as everyone else, but they have not had to do that because of longstanding affirmative action advantages granted to them. They get in because of their race, even though they are less qualified, while others do not get in because they are the "wrong" race.

If you want a truly fair system for elite institutions, drop all the legacy, athletics, rich parent preferences being granted to (mainly) white applicants, and drop the affirmative action advantages too. Base it on scores and grades and recommendations, and if you want to give anyone a leg up, make it because of their socioeconomic disadvantage, not the color of their skin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm white and graduated from an Ivy. My spouse is Asian and also graduated from an Ivy. We come from working-class backgrounds/first generation college.

The day when elite American colleges can admit whomever they want, however they want, seems to be drawing to a close. Harvard didn't have an easy time of it from 2014-2018 with the Students for Fair Admissions suit, although technically the university was cleared. Harvard's admission rates for Asians has risen by at least 5 percentage points since 2014. Now Edward Blum's Project on Fair Representation has Chapel Hill in its sights. A ruling beating back consideration of race in admissions at a public university would set the tone for private institutions if a precedent assailing affirmative action is established. I'd wager that this Court will go at Chapel Hill in a couple of years. Private colleges and universities in this country aren't entirely private of course, being dependent on government grants and subsidized student loan programs to survive.

The days when AA students can be admitted to elite colleges, both public and private, with SAT scores that are, on average, 400 points lower than those of Asian applicants appear numbered due to Trump's SC appointments. It might behoove the Banneker community to take note.

But why don’t you go after the rich white families with legacy status and low test scores with this much vitriol? I don’t get it. I mean I get it that you have something against AA students that’s crystal clear. AA student still make up a very small percentage of Ivy League and top tier admittance. Yet this seems to be the population with which you have some weird fixation.

Not PP you're responding to, but in fact AA students are OVER-represented at some elite schools, including some Ivies, compared to their percentage of the overall population: https://www.jbhe.com/2021/04/blacks-make-up-18-percent-of-admitted-students-at-harvard-university/

I don't have a problem with that so long as they had to meet the same admissions requirements as everyone else, but they have not had to do that because of longstanding affirmative action advantages granted to them. They get in because of their race, even though they are less qualified, while others do not get in because they are the "wrong" race.

If you want a truly fair system for elite institutions, drop all the legacy, athletics, rich parent preferences being granted to (mainly) white applicants, and drop the affirmative action advantages too. Base it on scores and grades and recommendations, and if you want to give anyone a leg up, make it because of their socioeconomic disadvantage, not the color of their skin.

You found one post on one Ivy League and want us to buy it and extend the argument to all elite institutions? Cute. Currently, AA students are not over represented at elite institutions. Additionally, affirmative action doesn’t lead to unqualified applicants being admitted. Affirmative action doesn’t give spots to unqualified applicants.

[Anonymous]

This Jewish person really liked this new book. Too many echoes of the way Jews were treated in Ivy admissions in the first half of the 20th century in the way Asians are being treated now. If low SES AA applicants/Banneker grads can score in the 500s-600s on SATs and get admitted, low SES Asian-Americans should be able to as well. Better yet, everybody scores high to be admitted or SAT become optional universally as suggested above.

https://www.amazon.com/Inconvenient-Minority-American-Excellence-Meritocracy-ebook/dp/B08MQN8J6D/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Amazon.com%3A+An+Inconvenient+Minority%3A+The+Attack+on+Asian+American+Excellence+and+the+Fight+for+Meritocracy+eBook+%3A+Xu%2C+Kenny%3A+Kindle+Store&qid=1635528927&qsid=134-4493894-6523123&sr=8-1-fkmr1&sres=B0154QEQ4K%2CB07G78FYFL%2C1635767563%2CB01N3777ZT%2CB004LLIKVU%2CB07WDYVP3P%2CB07FZ8S74R%2CB07KK854S9%2CB08MQN8J6D%2CB003006WRC%2CB01FIS88SY%2CB079RDRZ15

[Anonymous]

Again, we need to stop viewing it as an Asian slot is going to an AA student who isn’t qualified. Students are not accepted or rejected to colleges solely based on race or ethnicity.