US has no good options in Ukraine

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And before he became a president, he was a great comedian, like Jon Stewart or Stephen Colbert. This is one of his most famous videos (yes, it's not very polite, but it's very funny):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oua0Puihrkc

My son, 16, just watched this over my shoulder and asked: "And on that basis he was elected President?"

Hmmm...

So you and your son think you are smarter than 70% of the voters in Ukraine ?

Zelenskyy's comedy also included a lot of astute political commentary. Yes, he did win a popular election, but his skeptics and critics were like the 16-year-old son and called him the "TV President" but with the leadership he's shown in the face of the invasion, he has gained massive, almost universal popularity within Ukraine.

Is is great leadership? Zelensky is an incredible, brave person, but I think his naivety is one of the ingredients leading to this situation. The outcome is most likely going to be virtually the same deal that could have been obtained from Russia prior to the outset of the war: an agreement to remain neutral in the struggle between Russia and the West, and an agreement to stay out of NATO.

Nothing will be gained in this fight, yet much will be lost. Don't get me wrong -- he is a remarkably brave person. But Putin is getting old, and it would have been wiser to simply wait him out, while quietly -- as opposed to overtly and brazenly -- developing a relationship with the West. The strategic partnership that Ukraine signed with the US on Nov 10, 2021, was a reckless move -- rather like declaring that Ukraine is engaged to the US, and will get married in the near future. A smarter strategy would have been to quietly build up Ukraine's military capabilities with help from the US, rather than to openly declare this intention.

Prior to the invasion, Zelenskyy's popularity in Ukraine was not high. He was seen as too conciliatory towards Russia, seeking compromise with the neighboring country rather than being a hardliner.

Neither Ukraine nor Zelenskyy are to blame for Russia's belligerence. Nor NATO nor the US etc.

But Zelensky signed off on the Nov 10, 2021 strategic partnership. That was clearly an aggressive move in the eyes of the Russian government. It is worth reading the agreement:

[url]
https://www.state.gov/u-s-ukraine-charter-on-strategic-partnership/
[/url]

And why did the US telegraph its moves like this? The build-up of the Ukraine military should have been handled covertly, to the extent possible.

I’ve read this. There is really nothing objectionable here. Nothing offensive - only defensive. Seeks to hold RUS accountable for violations of international law. Affirms UKR territorial integrity. Affirms right of UKR to decide without outside interference about its foreign policy choices. Affirms their NATO cooperation, which they have had for a long time and was a sort of compromise position after Maidan (to be a NATO cooperating country instead of a NATO member).

And do you think a member of the Russian government would share your view? I think the language would be considered threatening from the Russian perspective.

Wtf - Russia already stole Crimea

Yes, but in the Russians' view, the rightful leader of Ukraine was pushed out by an unlawful revolution (perhaps with CIA involvement), and the unlawful govt that took over wanted to cancel the lease for the Crimea base, which would have been a huge strategic loss for Russia. I am not saying that I agree with this analysis, but I believe it is the Russian view of events. Also, what do you think the U.S. would have done were we faced with the loss of critical military base? My guess is that we would have found some way to keep it in our possession.

What's "in the Russians' view" is about as legit as Sidney Powell and Mr. Pillow guy claiming a zombified Hugo Chavez rose from the dead and used Smartmatic and Dominion to hack all of the voting machines in America to steal the election for Biden and a pedophile cabal, and that the evidence for all of it is sitting on a secret Kraken server in Germany.

This intercepted phone call took place before the coup. The US Govt never denied that this call took place. Top level US officials deciding who will take power in Ukraine after the pro-Russian leader is pushed out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV9J6sxCs5k

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And before he became a president, he was a great comedian, like Jon Stewart or Stephen Colbert. This is one of his most famous videos (yes, it's not very polite, but it's very funny):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oua0Puihrkc

My son, 16, just watched this over my shoulder and asked: "And on that basis he was elected President?"

Hmmm...

So you and your son think you are smarter than 70% of the voters in Ukraine ?

Zelenskyy's comedy also included a lot of astute political commentary. Yes, he did win a popular election, but his skeptics and critics were like the 16-year-old son and called him the "TV President" but with the leadership he's shown in the face of the invasion, he has gained massive, almost universal popularity within Ukraine.

Is is great leadership? Zelensky is an incredible, brave person, but I think his naivety is one of the ingredients leading to this situation. The outcome is most likely going to be virtually the same deal that could have been obtained from Russia prior to the outset of the war: an agreement to remain neutral in the struggle between Russia and the West, and an agreement to stay out of NATO.

Nothing will be gained in this fight, yet much will be lost. Don't get me wrong -- he is a remarkably brave person. But Putin is getting old, and it would have been wiser to simply wait him out, while quietly -- as opposed to overtly and brazenly -- developing a relationship with the West. The strategic partnership that Ukraine signed with the US on Nov 10, 2021, was a reckless move -- rather like declaring that Ukraine is engaged to the US, and will get married in the near future. A smarter strategy would have been to quietly build up Ukraine's military capabilities with help from the US, rather than to openly declare this intention.

Prior to the invasion, Zelenskyy's popularity in Ukraine was not high. He was seen as too conciliatory towards Russia, seeking compromise with the neighboring country rather than being a hardliner.

Neither Ukraine nor Zelenskyy are to blame for Russia's belligerence. Nor NATO nor the US etc.

But Zelensky signed off on the Nov 10, 2021 strategic partnership. That was clearly an aggressive move in the eyes of the Russian government. It is worth reading the agreement:

[url]
https://www.state.gov/u-s-ukraine-charter-on-strategic-partnership/
[/url]

And why did the US telegraph its moves like this? The build-up of the Ukraine military should have been handled covertly, to the extent possible.

I’ve read this. There is really nothing objectionable here. Nothing offensive - only defensive. Seeks to hold RUS accountable for violations of international law. Affirms UKR territorial integrity. Affirms right of UKR to decide without outside interference about its foreign policy choices. Affirms their NATO cooperation, which they have had for a long time and was a sort of compromise position after Maidan (to be a NATO cooperating country instead of a NATO member).

And do you think a member of the Russian government would share your view? I think the language would be considered threatening from the Russian perspective.

Wtf - Russia already stole Crimea

Yes, but in the Russians' view, the rightful leader of Ukraine was pushed out by an unlawful revolution (perhaps with CIA involvement), and the unlawful govt that took over wanted to cancel the lease for the Crimea base, which would have been a huge strategic loss for Russia. I am not saying that I agree with this analysis, but I believe it is the Russian view of events. Also, what do you think the U.S. would have done were we faced with the loss of critical military base? My guess is that we would have found some way to keep it in our possession.

What's "in the Russians' view" is about as legit as Sidney Powell and Mr. Pillow guy claiming a zombified Hugo Chavez rose from the dead and used Smartmatic and Dominion to hack all of the voting machines in America to steal the election for Biden and a pedophile cabal, and that the evidence for all of it is sitting on a secret Kraken server in Germany.

This intercepted phone call took place before the coup. The US Govt never denied that this call took place. Top level US officials deciding who will take power in Ukraine after the pro-Russian leader is pushed out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV9J6sxCs5k

Wait. You call that a coup but not Jan 6th?!?!?!

[Anonymous]

So. People.


Tell me your views on possible Chinese military and other help to Russia. The US just spoke with China about not doing this.

What do you think will happen? If China backs Russia, and NATO backs Ukraine, nobody wins. I strongly doubted China would lift a finger for Russia besides lovely speeches, given that it needs a wealthy West to buy its products and relies on us to keep it middle class... but supposedly there's intelligence about material help China was about to provide to Russia.


?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back in February, Biden said this:

“I will not send American servicemen to fight in Ukraine,” though he added that “if Russia targets Americans in Ukraine, we will respond forcefully.”

So, we have one dead American journalist and one injured.

I am awaiting this "forceful" response.

This was not just any American.

Putin’s military targeted and murdered a very prominent NYT reporter and member of the press corps.

You simply do not murder press without severe consequences.

There is now ample justification for, at a minimum, a full no-fly zone over Ukraine, if not full intervention by NATO forces.

No there isn't. Unfortunately journalists are injured and killed all the time in war zones. That isn't a cause for the US to get involved.

Once again. Biden said this: “I will not send American servicemen to fight in Ukraine,” though he added that “if Russia targets Americans in Ukraine, we will respond forcefully.”

So, we should be expecting a forceful response.
Or, does he not abide by what he says?

Lead the way. You first.

Look.... it was BIDEN who said it. Nobody forced him to say these words. He said them.
So, what is he going to do? Just spout empty words? Or, is he going to take action?

Biden is really good about telling Russia what he ISN'T going to do. And, in doing so.... he is basically giving Russia permission to run roughshod over Ukraine.

I would like to hear Biden say, "All options are on the table." I would also like Biden and crew to stop saying what he won't do. I would also like Biden and crew to stop with the public negotiation regarding the jets from Poland and just get the damn jets to Ukraine.

He said that that the US would respond forcefully if Americans were targeted in Ukraine. Well, it has happened. And, we have a dead American.
If he does nothing, he will look weak. Weaker than he already appears.
Time for action.

DP. And I agree completely.

Besides, a no-fly zone is not a war. We are not doing anything at all so long as Russian warplanes stay out of Ukraine’s airspace.

Moreover, NO ONE is saying this is a war! It’s not. Russia has said repeatedly its a “special operation,” and that’s not a war. And we have said “a minor incursion” is not a war.

So a no-fly zone over a nation WHICH IS NOT AT WAR, is a simple matter, and it should be imposed immediately. Besides,

- Zelinski invited us. What’s wrong with US planes accepting the invitation of a sovereign nation?

Logic dictates we impose a no-fly zone to protect US journalists. It’s only logical.

Sweet summer child. How do you think no fly zones are enforced? How do you think Russia responds - the country that’s literally attacking and obliterating a sovereign nation, bombing schools and hospitals, and dangling nuclear weapons on “high alert”?

This is “check”. Unless the west wants WWIII, there’s no no fly zones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back in February, Biden said this:

“I will not send American servicemen to fight in Ukraine,” though he added that “if Russia targets Americans in Ukraine, we will respond forcefully.”

So, we have one dead American journalist and one injured.

I am awaiting this "forceful" response.

This was not just any American.

Putin’s military targeted and murdered a very prominent NYT reporter and member of the press corps.

You simply do not murder press without severe consequences.

There is now ample justification for, at a minimum, a full no-fly zone over Ukraine, if not full intervention by NATO forces.

No there isn't. Unfortunately journalists are injured and killed all the time in war zones. That isn't a cause for the US to get involved.

Once again. Biden said this: “I will not send American servicemen to fight in Ukraine,” though he added that “if Russia targets Americans in Ukraine, we will respond forcefully.”

So, we should be expecting a forceful response.
Or, does he not abide by what he says?

Lead the way. You first.

Look.... it was BIDEN who said it. Nobody forced him to say these words. He said them.
So, what is he going to do? Just spout empty words? Or, is he going to take action?

Biden is really good about telling Russia what he ISN'T going to do. And, in doing so.... he is basically giving Russia permission to run roughshod over Ukraine.

I would like to hear Biden say, "All options are on the table." I would also like Biden and crew to stop saying what he won't do. I would also like Biden and crew to stop with the public negotiation regarding the jets from Poland and just get the damn jets to Ukraine.

He said that that the US would respond forcefully if Americans were targeted in Ukraine. Well, it has happened. And, we have a dead American.
If he does nothing, he will look weak. Weaker than he already appears.
Time for action.

DP. And I agree completely.

Besides, a no-fly zone is not a war. We are not doing anything at all so long as Russian warplanes stay out of Ukraine’s airspace.

Moreover, NO ONE is saying this is a war! It’s not. Russia has said repeatedly its a “special operation,” and that’s not a war. And we have said “a minor incursion” is not a war.

So a no-fly zone over a nation WHICH IS NOT AT WAR, is a simple matter, and it should be imposed immediately. Besides,

- Zelinski invited us. What’s wrong with US planes accepting the invitation of a sovereign nation?

Logic dictates we impose a no-fly zone to protect US journalists. It’s only logical.

Sweet summer child. How do you think no fly zones are enforced? How do you think Russia responds - the country that’s literally attacking and obliterating a sovereign nation, bombing schools and hospitals, and dangling nuclear weapons on “high alert”?

This is “check”. Unless the west wants WWIII, there’s no no fly zones.

DP here. I think far too many of us are in denial that the opening volleys of WWIII have already been lobbed. I don't personally want to advocate for a no-fly zone, and I've never been happier not to be responsible for such a decision, but I also think that this doesn't end at the Ukrainian border. The question is really when do we want to get into the fight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back in February, Biden said this:

“I will not send American servicemen to fight in Ukraine,” though he added that “if Russia targets Americans in Ukraine, we will respond forcefully.”

So, we have one dead American journalist and one injured.

I am awaiting this "forceful" response.

This was not just any American.

Putin’s military targeted and murdered a very prominent NYT reporter and member of the press corps.

You simply do not murder press without severe consequences.

There is now ample justification for, at a minimum, a full no-fly zone over Ukraine, if not full intervention by NATO forces.

No there isn't. Unfortunately journalists are injured and killed all the time in war zones. That isn't a cause for the US to get involved.

Once again. Biden said this: “I will not send American servicemen to fight in Ukraine,” though he added that “if Russia targets Americans in Ukraine, we will respond forcefully.”

So, we should be expecting a forceful response.
Or, does he not abide by what he says?

Lead the way. You first.

Look.... it was BIDEN who said it. Nobody forced him to say these words. He said them.
So, what is he going to do? Just spout empty words? Or, is he going to take action?

Biden is really good about telling Russia what he ISN'T going to do. And, in doing so.... he is basically giving Russia permission to run roughshod over Ukraine.

I would like to hear Biden say, "All options are on the table." I would also like Biden and crew to stop saying what he won't do. I would also like Biden and crew to stop with the public negotiation regarding the jets from Poland and just get the damn jets to Ukraine.

He said that that the US would respond forcefully if Americans were targeted in Ukraine. Well, it has happened. And, we have a dead American.
If he does nothing, he will look weak. Weaker than he already appears.
Time for action.

DP. And I agree completely.

Besides, a no-fly zone is not a war. We are not doing anything at all so long as Russian warplanes stay out of Ukraine’s airspace.

Moreover, NO ONE is saying this is a war! It’s not. Russia has said repeatedly its a “special operation,” and that’s not a war. And we have said “a minor incursion” is not a war.

So a no-fly zone over a nation WHICH IS NOT AT WAR, is a simple matter, and it should be imposed immediately. Besides,

- Zelinski invited us. What’s wrong with US planes accepting the invitation of a sovereign nation?

Logic dictates we impose a no-fly zone to protect US journalists. It’s only logical.

Sweet summer child. How do you think no fly zones are enforced? How do you think Russia responds - the country that’s literally attacking and obliterating a sovereign nation, bombing schools and hospitals, and dangling nuclear weapons on “high alert”?

This is “check”. Unless the west wants WWIII, there’s no no fly zones.

DP here. I think far too many of us are in denial that the opening volleys of WWIII have already been lobbed. I don't personally want to advocate for a no-fly zone, and I've never been happier not to be responsible for such a decision, but I also think that this doesn't end at the Ukrainian border. The question is really when do we want to get into the fight.

And why were didthe WWIII not start when the U.S. invaded Iraq? You do see a hypocrosy here We are to die for Ukraine and cause the world to die, but we "liberated" Iraq?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back in February, Biden said this:

“I will not send American servicemen to fight in Ukraine,” though he added that “if Russia targets Americans in Ukraine, we will respond forcefully.”

So, we have one dead American journalist and one injured.

I am awaiting this "forceful" response.

This was not just any American.

Putin’s military targeted and murdered a very prominent NYT reporter and member of the press corps.

You simply do not murder press without severe consequences.

There is now ample justification for, at a minimum, a full no-fly zone over Ukraine, if not full intervention by NATO forces.

No there isn't. Unfortunately journalists are injured and killed all the time in war zones. That isn't a cause for the US to get involved.

Once again. Biden said this: “I will not send American servicemen to fight in Ukraine,” though he added that “if Russia targets Americans in Ukraine, we will respond forcefully.”

So, we should be expecting a forceful response.
Or, does he not abide by what he says?

Lead the way. You first.

Look.... it was BIDEN who said it. Nobody forced him to say these words. He said them.
So, what is he going to do? Just spout empty words? Or, is he going to take action?

Biden is really good about telling Russia what he ISN'T going to do. And, in doing so.... he is basically giving Russia permission to run roughshod over Ukraine.

I would like to hear Biden say, "All options are on the table." I would also like Biden and crew to stop saying what he won't do. I would also like Biden and crew to stop with the public negotiation regarding the jets from Poland and just get the damn jets to Ukraine.

He said that that the US would respond forcefully if Americans were targeted in Ukraine. Well, it has happened. And, we have a dead American.
If he does nothing, he will look weak. Weaker than he already appears.
Time for action.

DP. And I agree completely.

Besides, a no-fly zone is not a war. We are not doing anything at all so long as Russian warplanes stay out of Ukraine’s airspace.

Moreover, NO ONE is saying this is a war! It’s not. Russia has said repeatedly its a “special operation,” and that’s not a war. And we have said “a minor incursion” is not a war.

So a no-fly zone over a nation WHICH IS NOT AT WAR, is a simple matter, and it should be imposed immediately. Besides,

- Zelinski invited us. What’s wrong with US planes accepting the invitation of a sovereign nation?

Logic dictates we impose a no-fly zone to protect US journalists. It’s only logical.

Sweet summer child. How do you think no fly zones are enforced? How do you think Russia responds - the country that’s literally attacking and obliterating a sovereign nation, bombing schools and hospitals, and dangling nuclear weapons on “high alert”?

This is “check”. Unless the west wants WWIII, there’s no no fly zones.

DP here. I think far too many of us are in denial that the opening volleys of WWIII have already been lobbed. I don't personally want to advocate for a no-fly zone, and I've never been happier not to be responsible for such a decision, but I also think that this doesn't end at the Ukrainian border. The question is really when do we want to get into the fight.

A fight means - particularly if the US gets directly involved - that Putin uses nuclear weapons. Do you want MAD? Not me. But yes, I agree Putin has pulled the world war thread and it just depends on how long that thread is. No fly zones aren’t a remedy to WWIII though. And even those who believed Putin was a rational if not reasonable leader a week ago have changed their minds. Clearly Putin is out for blood, for legacy, for Russia imperialism. He’s not stopping at Ukraine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back in February, Biden said this:

“I will not send American servicemen to fight in Ukraine,” though he added that “if Russia targets Americans in Ukraine, we will respond forcefully.”

So, we have one dead American journalist and one injured.

I am awaiting this "forceful" response.

This was not just any American.

Putin’s military targeted and murdered a very prominent NYT reporter and member of the press corps.

You simply do not murder press without severe consequences.

There is now ample justification for, at a minimum, a full no-fly zone over Ukraine, if not full intervention by NATO forces.

No there isn't. Unfortunately journalists are injured and killed all the time in war zones. That isn't a cause for the US to get involved.

Once again. Biden said this: “I will not send American servicemen to fight in Ukraine,” though he added that “if Russia targets Americans in Ukraine, we will respond forcefully.”

So, we should be expecting a forceful response.
Or, does he not abide by what he says?

Lead the way. You first.

Look.... it was BIDEN who said it. Nobody forced him to say these words. He said them.
So, what is he going to do? Just spout empty words? Or, is he going to take action?

Biden is really good about telling Russia what he ISN'T going to do. And, in doing so.... he is basically giving Russia permission to run roughshod over Ukraine.

I would like to hear Biden say, "All options are on the table." I would also like Biden and crew to stop saying what he won't do. I would also like Biden and crew to stop with the public negotiation regarding the jets from Poland and just get the damn jets to Ukraine.

He said that that the US would respond forcefully if Americans were targeted in Ukraine. Well, it has happened. And, we have a dead American.
If he does nothing, he will look weak. Weaker than he already appears.
Time for action.

DP. And I agree completely.

Besides, a no-fly zone is not a war. We are not doing anything at all so long as Russian warplanes stay out of Ukraine’s airspace.

Moreover, NO ONE is saying this is a war! It’s not. Russia has said repeatedly its a “special operation,” and that’s not a war. And we have said “a minor incursion” is not a war.

So a no-fly zone over a nation WHICH IS NOT AT WAR, is a simple matter, and it should be imposed immediately. Besides,

- Zelinski invited us. What’s wrong with US planes accepting the invitation of a sovereign nation?

Logic dictates we impose a no-fly zone to protect US journalists. It’s only logical.

Sweet summer child. How do you think no fly zones are enforced? How do you think Russia responds - the country that’s literally attacking and obliterating a sovereign nation, bombing schools and hospitals, and dangling nuclear weapons on “high alert”?

This is “check”. Unless the west wants WWIII, there’s no no fly zones.

DP here. I think far too many of us are in denial that the opening volleys of WWIII have already been lobbed. I don't personally want to advocate for a no-fly zone, and I've never been happier not to be responsible for such a decision, but I also think that this doesn't end at the Ukrainian border. The question is really when do we want to get into the fight.

And why were didthe WWIII not start when the U.S. invaded Iraq? You do see a hypocrosy here We are to die for Ukraine and cause the world to die, but we "liberated" Iraq?

Iraq = / = Russia in terms of military might. Period. Not sure what you’re suggesting is hypocrisy. If it’s the fact that we are treating Putin as a dangerous invader who must be stopped but also carries nuclear might and missiles aimed at the US and other targets, but didn’t take that same approach with Iraq, you’re right. But that’s fact not hypocrisy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back in February, Biden said this:

“I will not send American servicemen to fight in Ukraine,” though he added that “if Russia targets Americans in Ukraine, we will respond forcefully.”

So, we have one dead American journalist and one injured.

I am awaiting this "forceful" response.

This was not just any American.

Putin’s military targeted and murdered a very prominent NYT reporter and member of the press corps.

You simply do not murder press without severe consequences.

There is now ample justification for, at a minimum, a full no-fly zone over Ukraine, if not full intervention by NATO forces.

My son should fight to avenge a journalist that went willingly to a war zone to report and earn a buck? Since when do countries go to war over journalists covering wars around the world?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back in February, Biden said this:

“I will not send American servicemen to fight in Ukraine,” though he added that “if Russia targets Americans in Ukraine, we will respond forcefully.”

So, we have one dead American journalist and one injured.

I am awaiting this "forceful" response.

This was not just any American.

Putin’s military targeted and murdered a very prominent NYT reporter and member of the press corps.

You simply do not murder press without severe consequences.

There is now ample justification for, at a minimum, a full no-fly zone over Ukraine, if not full intervention by NATO forces.

You must be a Trumper. I bet you were all happy when he abandoned our allies in the Middle East.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back in February, Biden said this:

“I will not send American servicemen to fight in Ukraine,” though he added that “if Russia targets Americans in Ukraine, we will respond forcefully.”

So, we have one dead American journalist and one injured.

I am awaiting this "forceful" response.

This was not just any American.

Putin’s military targeted and murdered a very prominent NYT reporter and member of the press corps.

You simply do not murder press without severe consequences.

There is now ample justification for, at a minimum, a full no-fly zone over Ukraine, if not full intervention by NATO forces.

No there isn't. Unfortunately journalists are injured and killed all the time in war zones. That isn't a cause for the US to get involved.

Ty. The journo was a freelancer, no longer with the Times, for accuracy.

Stop pushing for annihilation and no fly zones.

You can practically hear the defense industry slobbering.

Exactly! Not even 7 months after they lost their golden goose in Afganistan! And someone here wants happily to offer her son as a lamb for them to make their profits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back in February, Biden said this:

“I will not send American servicemen to fight in Ukraine,” though he added that “if Russia targets Americans in Ukraine, we will respond forcefully.”

So, we have one dead American journalist and one injured.

I am awaiting this "forceful" response.

This was not just any American.

Putin’s military targeted and murdered a very prominent NYT reporter and member of the press corps.

You simply do not murder press without severe consequences.

There is now ample justification for, at a minimum, a full no-fly zone over Ukraine, if not full intervention by NATO forces.

No there isn't. Unfortunately journalists are injured and killed all the time in war zones. That isn't a cause for the US to get involved.

Ty. The journo was a freelancer, no longer with the Times, for accuracy.

Stop pushing for annihilation and no fly zones.

You can practically hear the defense industry slobbering.

Exactly! Not even 7 months after they lost their golden goose in Afganistan! And someone here wants happily to offer her son as a lamb for them to make their profits.

People profit from white on white crime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back in February, Biden said this:

“I will not send American servicemen to fight in Ukraine,” though he added that “if Russia targets Americans in Ukraine, we will respond forcefully.”

So, we have one dead American journalist and one injured.

I am awaiting this "forceful" response.

This was not just any American.

Putin’s military targeted and murdered a very prominent NYT reporter and member of the press corps.

You simply do not murder press without severe consequences.

There is now ample justification for, at a minimum, a full no-fly zone over Ukraine, if not full intervention by NATO forces.

My son should fight to avenge a journalist that went willingly to a war zone to report and earn a buck? Since when do countries go to war over journalists covering wars around the world?

You son should fight because that's what he signed up for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back in February, Biden said this:

“I will not send American servicemen to fight in Ukraine,” though he added that “if Russia targets Americans in Ukraine, we will respond forcefully.”

So, we have one dead American journalist and one injured.

I am awaiting this "forceful" response.

This was not just any American.

Putin’s military targeted and murdered a very prominent NYT reporter and member of the press corps.

You simply do not murder press without severe consequences.

There is now ample justification for, at a minimum, a full no-fly zone over Ukraine, if not full intervention by NATO forces.

No there isn't. Unfortunately journalists are injured and killed all the time in war zones. That isn't a cause for the US to get involved.

Once again. Biden said this: “I will not send American servicemen to fight in Ukraine,” though he added that “if Russia targets Americans in Ukraine, we will respond forcefully.”

So, we should be expecting a forceful response.
Or, does he not abide by what he says?

Lead the way. You first.

Look.... it was BIDEN who said it. Nobody forced him to say these words. He said them.
So, what is he going to do? Just spout empty words? Or, is he going to take action?

Biden is really good about telling Russia what he ISN'T going to do. And, in doing so.... he is basically giving Russia permission to run roughshod over Ukraine.

I would like to hear Biden say, "All options are on the table." I would also like Biden and crew to stop saying what he won't do. I would also like Biden and crew to stop with the public negotiation regarding the jets from Poland and just get the damn jets to Ukraine.

He said that that the US would respond forcefully if Americans were targeted in Ukraine. Well, it has happened. And, we have a dead American.
If he does nothing, he will look weak. Weaker than he already appears.
Time for action.

DP. And I agree completely.

Besides, a no-fly zone is not a war. We are not doing anything at all so long as Russian warplanes stay out of Ukraine’s airspace.

Moreover, NO ONE is saying this is a war! It’s not. Russia has said repeatedly its a “special operation,” and that’s not a war. And we have said “a minor incursion” is not a war.

So a no-fly zone over a nation WHICH IS NOT AT WAR, is a simple matter, and it should be imposed immediately. Besides,

- Zelinski invited us. What’s wrong with US planes accepting the invitation of a sovereign nation?

Logic dictates we impose a no-fly zone to protect US journalists. It’s only logical.

Sweet summer child. How do you think no fly zones are enforced? How do you think Russia responds - the country that’s literally attacking and obliterating a sovereign nation, bombing schools and hospitals, and dangling nuclear weapons on “high alert”?

This is “check”. Unless the west wants WWIII, there’s no no fly zones.

DP here. I think far too many of us are in denial that the opening volleys of WWIII have already been lobbed. I don't personally want to advocate for a no-fly zone, and I've never been happier not to be responsible for such a decision, but I also think that this doesn't end at the Ukrainian border. The question is really when do we want to get into the fight.

And why were didthe WWIII not start when the U.S. invaded Iraq? You do see a hypocrosy here We are to die for Ukraine and cause the world to die, but we "liberated" Iraq?

Iraq = / = Russia in terms of military might. Period. Not sure what you’re suggesting is hypocrisy. If it’s the fact that we are treating Putin as a dangerous invader who must be stopped but also carries nuclear might and missiles aimed at the US and other targets, but didn’t take that same approach with Iraq, you’re right. But that’s fact not hypocrisy.

How is that not a hypocrisy? Why did Russia and the world not punish us for that act?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back in February, Biden said this:

“I will not send American servicemen to fight in Ukraine,” though he added that “if Russia targets Americans in Ukraine, we will respond forcefully.”

So, we have one dead American journalist and one injured.

I am awaiting this "forceful" response.

This was not just any American.

Putin’s military targeted and murdered a very prominent NYT reporter and member of the press corps.

You simply do not murder press without severe consequences.

There is now ample justification for, at a minimum, a full no-fly zone over Ukraine, if not full intervention by NATO forces.

My son should fight to avenge a journalist that went willingly to a war zone to report and earn a buck? Since when do countries go to war over journalists covering wars around the world?

You son should fight because that's what he signed up for.

That's the thing, he didn't sing up for anything. But, if there is a World War he will be conscripted to fight.