Allegedly there are several options for the fall none of which include being back full time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You don't honestly think most communities will be able to meet all of those criteria for a "gradual" reopening by late August, do you? I certainly don't. Reading between the lines, I think their statement gives teachers and the AFT plenty of room to "scream bloody murder" when not all of these criteria are met, and I fully expect them to, to the ongoing detriment of the students they claim to serve.

In other words, it's not actually what the teachers' unions are saying, it's what you believe the teachers' unions are going to say,.

[Anonymous]

From the Irish study in another thread:

While this study, based on small numbers, provides limited evidence in relation to COVID-19 transmission in the school setting, it includes all known cases with school attendance in the Republic of Ireland. The results moreover echo the experience of other countries, where children are not emerging as considerable drivers of transmission of COVID-19.

These findings suggest that schools are not a high risk setting for transmission of COVID-19 between pupils or between staff and pupils.

There are no zero risk approaches, but the school environment appears to be low risk.

[Anonymous]

So kids can jam four to car in HS graduation in car parades, march in BLM protests, have summer jobs, go to Starbucks, Go to beach etc but not sit in school is crazy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You don't honestly think most communities will be able to meet all of those criteria for a "gradual" reopening by late August, do you? I certainly don't. Reading between the lines, I think their statement gives teachers and the AFT plenty of room to "scream bloody murder" when not all of these criteria are met, and I fully expect them to, to the ongoing detriment of the students they claim to serve.

In other words, it's not actually what the teachers' unions are saying, it's what you believe the teachers' unions are going to say,.

No, it's that what the teachers' union is actually saying is a set of largely aspirational mumbo-jumbo. Very little of the statement offers concrete benchmarks. When statements are that sweeping and that vague, it's done purposely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if hospital and nursing home workers were this demanding about not going back to work?

School is just as essential as healthcare. You all are being absolutely ridiculous.

"I'm not going back until I feel it's a completely safe working environment"!
Newsflash: teaching has literally NEVER been a completely safe working environment. Teachers catch things from kids all the tine. Kids bring weapons to school etc...if you will not go back until there is zero risk than you need to find a new career.

It’s a dirty secret, but some have been —especially when PPE was not available. Our pediatrician’s office closed because the nurses and assistants demanded PPE. The doctors couldn’t get sufficient. So they closed in April and remain closed.

Many were still open - mine was. But those who closed also lost their income. You can choose not to go back to teach and lose your income too. No one is stopping you.

My pediatrician’s office provided telemedicine. Schools could provide tele-education. See how that works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if hospital and nursing home workers were this demanding about not going back to work?

School is just as essential as healthcare. You all are being absolutely ridiculous.

"I'm not going back until I feel it's a completely safe working environment"!
Newsflash: teaching has literally NEVER been a completely safe working environment. Teachers catch things from kids all the tine. Kids bring weapons to school etc...if you will not go back until there is zero risk than you need to find a new career.

Well-said. It's so sad to me that teachers don't see school as essential. Here's the most important things that should be open, listed by priority: hospitals, anything related to getting food onto people's tables, schools....everything else.....hair salons.

DP, and what bothers me the most is, on the one hand, the teachers union insisting that teachers are vital to society (which they are!) and then turning around and telling them to dig their heels in and not return to school unless it's completely safe re: COVID. They can't have it both ways.

OK, I'm a parent who wants schools open as much as anyone here, but I'm also a union member (not a teacher). It is literally a union's job to assert why their members are important and work in their members' interest. This is usually an oppositional system where a union and management are both trying to negotiate from more extreme positions than they may expect to actually get. The governor, school boards, etc. all have responsibilities to larger constituencies, individual teachers have responsibilities to their students, it is ONLY the union where people's entire job is to think JUST about the teachers.

Thanks. Had to get that off my chest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if hospital and nursing home workers were this demanding about not going back to work?

School is just as essential as healthcare. You all are being absolutely ridiculous.

"I'm not going back until I feel it's a completely safe working environment"!
Newsflash: teaching has literally NEVER been a completely safe working environment. Teachers catch things from kids all the tine. Kids bring weapons to school etc...if you will not go back until there is zero risk than you need to find a new career.

It’s a dirty secret, but some have been —especially when PPE was not available. Our pediatrician’s office closed because the nurses and assistants demanded PPE. The doctors couldn’t get sufficient. So they closed in April and remain closed.

Many were still open - mine was. But those who closed also lost their income. You can choose not to go back to teach and lose your income too. No one is stopping you.

My pediatrician’s office provided telemedicine. Schools could provide tele-education. See how that works.

We've seen how it works: badly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been patiently reading this debate on multiple treads by now. I have a question that I hope someone can give a meaningful answer. It seems some teachers would like to go back to school in the new academic year, but some teachers would first like to see some protocols in place because they say otherwise it is not safe for them. On the other hand, the vast majority of parents (even when one of the parents stay at home) want schools to open for all students. Now these parents are willing to send their kids to schools that some teachers argue not safe. Every night, the kids come back home from school. So if they pose a risk to teachers, shouldn't they pose a risk to their parents as well? Why do the parents think the risk is manageable, but some teachers think otherwise? Also since being a teacher is not a virtue people are born with, instead people become teachers after they are born, would those teachers change their mind on this issue if they were not teachers?

If you talk to lower income parents of color and I do since they are my neighbors and the parents of many of my students, they are worried about their kids bring coronavirus home. They just aren’t on DCUM to chime in on these posts.

I'd think for lower income families it's even more critical that kids go to school. Otherwise parents would have difficulty going to work. Also those kids would have very little out of school enrichment opportunities.

I get that you THINK that, but I’m telling you what people are saying to me. They are scared. Scared their kids will get “mildly” ill and they will miss work. Scared that they themselves will get ill and miss work. They are worried about doctors’ bills and hospital fees that they can’t afford. Scared that household member already in bad health will die. Some sublease housing illegally and are afraid that they might be kicked out if they or their kids get ill with COVID. It’s important to actually ask lower income people what they think rather than assuming you know what is best for them.

I work with low income families and they absolutely want - and need - schools to reopen. Yes, reopen with safety protocols I’m place, but schools reopening is not just about stability and enabling a parent to work, it’s also about education and socialization kids need. The prospect that parents working hourly pay jobs are taking off time to help kids navigate Zoom classes is absurd. What’s actually happening in many cases is parents leaving kids alone - often relatively young middle schoolers or older elementary schoolers who then watch younger kids in the home.

We’ve managed to keep Costcos open but somehow balk at reopening schools. Kids are not vectors for this disease. They hysteria needs to stop. School needs to start.

The low income parents aren’t taking time off work to help their kids with Zoom classes. Not blaming them. Just stating a fact. Often the MS or HS sibling is home babysitting or there’s an elderly relative. However, the kids are mostly home alone all day. And this is nothing new. What do you think poor kids do all summer? Do you really think their parents either take 10 weeks off unpaid or somehow can afford 2.5 months of day camp? All summer, I hear the kids in the apartment two doors down. They walk over to the ES up the hill for free lunch and then go right back inside to watch tv.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if hospital and nursing home workers were this demanding about not going back to work?

School is just as essential as healthcare. You all are being absolutely ridiculous.

"I'm not going back until I feel it's a completely safe working environment"!
Newsflash: teaching has literally NEVER been a completely safe working environment. Teachers catch things from kids all the tine. Kids bring weapons to school etc...if you will not go back until there is zero risk than you need to find a new career.

It’s a dirty secret, but some have been —especially when PPE was not available. Our pediatrician’s office closed because the nurses and assistants demanded PPE. The doctors couldn’t get sufficient. So they closed in April and remain closed.

Many were still open - mine was. But those who closed also lost their income. You can choose not to go back to teach and lose your income too. No one is stopping you.

My pediatrician’s office provided telemedicine. Schools could provide tele-education. See how that works.

We've seen how it works: badly.

Not as badly as it will work when MCPS reopens in the fall without securing the proper precautions.

I have a question for the teachers who are not worried for their personal health: How much coverage are you personally willing to do each week when your high-risk colleagues are out and your school can’t get subs? Are you willing to give up every planning period? For how long?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The low income parents aren’t taking time off work to help their kids with Zoom classes. Not blaming them. Just stating a fact. Often the MS or HS sibling is home babysitting or there’s an elderly relative. However, the kids are mostly home alone all day. And this is nothing new. What do you think poor kids do all summer? Do you really think their parents either take 10 weeks off unpaid or somehow can afford 2.5 months of day camp? All summer, I hear the kids in the apartment two doors down. They walk over to the ES up the hill for free lunch and then go right back inside to watch tv.

All the more reason for school in the fall. Kids need to be in school.

[Anonymous]

I'm a teacher in a European country that recently reopened some schools.

The extreme social distancing/safety procedures in place mean we aren't really able to teach much. I accomplished more teaching my classes via Google Meet each day. Now, some students are still at home by choice and I just don't have time to work with them. In my classroom (such as it is), huge chunks of the day are eaten up by new procedures.

I'm OK with this. It is just good to be back. But parents should know that simply reopening schools isn't going to make things better again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a teacher in a European country that recently reopened some schools.

The extreme social distancing/safety procedures in place mean we aren't really able to teach much. I accomplished more teaching my classes via Google Meet each day. Now, some students are still at home by choice and I just don't have time to work with them. In my classroom (such as it is), huge chunks of the day are eaten up by new procedures.

I'm OK with this. It is just good to be back. But parents should know that simply reopening schools isn't going to make things better again.

And the point most everybody is making are those "new procedures" are actually largely
Unnecessary. Hopefully all the school systems figure that out soon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if hospital and nursing home workers were this demanding about not going back to work?

School is just as essential as healthcare. You all are being absolutely ridiculous.

"I'm not going back until I feel it's a completely safe working environment"!
Newsflash: teaching has literally NEVER been a completely safe working environment. Teachers catch things from kids all the tine. Kids bring weapons to school etc...if you will not go back until there is zero risk than you need to find a new career.

It’s a dirty secret, but some have been —especially when PPE was not available. Our pediatrician’s office closed because the nurses and assistants demanded PPE. The doctors couldn’t get sufficient. So they closed in April and remain closed.

Many were still open - mine was. But those who closed also lost their income. You can choose not to go back to teach and lose your income too. No one is stopping you.

My pediatrician’s office provided telemedicine. Schools could provide tele-education. See how that works.

We've seen how it works: badly.

Agreed. Telemedicine is also not going to be adequate for everything from here on out. For many issues people will need to see a doctor in person, just like most students will need to see a teacher in person in order to learn adequately, especially the younger ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a teacher in a European country that recently reopened some schools.

The extreme social distancing/safety procedures in place mean we aren't really able to teach much. I accomplished more teaching my classes via Google Meet each day. Now, some students are still at home by choice and I just don't have time to work with them. In my classroom (such as it is), huge chunks of the day are eaten up by new procedures.

I'm OK with this. It is just good to be back. But parents should know that simply reopening schools isn't going to make things better again.

And the point most everybody is making are those "new procedures" are actually largely
Unnecessary. Hopefully all the school systems figure that out soon.

+1. Hopefully they will. I recently read an article about an infectious disease specialist in Germany who said it would be reasonable to drop the distance requirements in schools NOW, and that they should do so to see how it works out before summer break (which doesn't start until mid-/late July). Clearly the US is behind on the curve, and given the trends here as well as the mounting evidence that children are not significant spreaders, we should be able to consider it for the fall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There sure are a lot of people on here who think they know better than county leaders, doctors, public health experts, school administrators, and teachers. I don’t know what the right answer is, but neither do you.

I know that kids need to go to school.

And I know that a child's right to an education does not supersede the rights of teachers, custodians, cafeteria workers, bus drivers, and instructional aides to a safe working environment. We want school back in session too. But meaningful protocols to mitigate the spread of the virus need to be in place. Unfortunately, if a school is overcrowded they will have to reduce density by establishing different cohorts of students who physically attend school on different days. There is no other way around it-we can't build and staff new schools to accommodate all the students.

Why not?

I’m hoping that you bolder the wrong area of that post and really don’t mean that you think children have more right to be in a building than adults have a right to live.

DP. You say "being in a building" as if that is the only thing kids are losing when they do not go to school. Clearly, you do not appreciate the importance of school. It is absolutely our duty as a society to find a way to educate the 55 million kids in this country AT SCHOOL and together and full-time, and not by way of the some parent-facilitated "distance learning" charade. This virus poses a lethal threat only to a small minority of those who get exposed - to imply that the adults working at schools would run a high risk of death in case of exposure is hyperbole that is not helpful to the discussion. Adults in the building can protect themselves with masks, handwashing, and keeping their distance. There is no reason anyone in the building but teachers should ever have to get closer than within 3 feet of a kid, which is now thought to be a reasonably safe distance. Those at truly at high risk, or those simply concerned about infection, need to retire or find another career.

Kids are our most vulnerable citizens, with the least political clout. Their futures are at stake, and yes, they are more important than any adult's right to absolute safety from infection with a virus that is a serious danger to only a tiny fraction of those exposed. What will you suggest if a vaccine doesn't materialize very quickly? This virus isn't going to disappear like magic. We need to find a way to keep educating kids, both academically and socially.

Agree. Why do teachers get a pass when the rest of us have to go back to work? Teachers are essential workers. There is no way to do the job without being in a room with kids. Those that aren’t willing to do that in the fall should be finding new jobs.

Exactly! Well stated, PP.

Yes for sure.