Claiming a disability on the SAT/ACT - have people been gaming the system?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The SAT and ACT is testing speed. I don’t care who says it’s not. The SAT and ACT have said it is.

So I have a problem with accommodations that completely take that out of the equation.

SAT: our test is designed to test scholastic aptitude under timed conditions.

Parent: but my kid does poorly under timed conditions.

SAT: well, then your child won’t do as good on this test. Er. Wait. No. Strike that. Then we will give your child more time?

This will never be fair to me. No dog in the fight, though.

You know, there are disabilities that have nothing to do with processing speed or testing speed that require accommodations. My DC has a disability that means they frequently have to go to the bathroom, sometimes multiple times within an hour, and when they have to go, they have to go. Much of the time it is unpredictable when this will happen. This DC's accommodations included extra time.

So untimed for everyone!!

Do that and then don't be surprised when half of all students in complex majors drop out the first year.

Nah, I find many engineers have LD's. It take a certain mind to do engineering. You can't just memorize and regurgitate in these degrees. You can't just tutor and prep for engineering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unlimited time for all would work to meet the needs of the kids with disabilities.

Giving extended time to all would not and in reality extended time is often not enough for kids with more severe processing or attention disorders. It does help those with mild disorders and levels the playing field. The playing field is not leveled though if the group with a severe disability still has a deficiency, the group with the mild disability has been brought up to normal and the neuro typical group now has an advantage. You basically just moved the goal post up above the kids with LDs again.

That's what one who doesn't understand the issues would think. Extra time in and of itself wasn't devised to give students with LD's an advantage over regular kids just because they are otherwise disadvantaged. It was devised and designed to allow them to compensate for their disability--not to give them something extra. They don't need to have more time than the regular students, just the right amount of time for them.

None of the extended time accompanied are personalized to say one kid only needs 10 minutes vs another needs an hour. So to avoid abuse, give everyone untimed tests. If the goal is to test knowledge of materials, as obviously we are not testing processing speed when sunsets of the population are getting time accommodations, then why the resistance from anyone on giving Unlimted time to every kid? I don’t understand how parents who got accommodations for their kids won’t support this - there are lots of kids out there whose parents do not understand the system or have the money to get the diagnosis, so why not support untimed exams for every kid? Unless of course, you believe there is an advantage for your kid to getting this extra time and do not wish to give this advantage to a poorer kid who can’t afford to get a diagnosis....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get why parents of kids w accommodations are so against extended time or abolishing it completely for everyone esp in light of knowing certain segments of the population is abusing this.

The real issue is many of the parents commenting are the ones who have no issue gaming the system and it makes it very hard for some of us who have kids with LD - kids who struggled to read, talk, focus, grasp basic concepts and in less you have a child like that, you don't really get it. You aren't the parent who quit their job to take your child to daily tutoring and/or therapies (sometimes multiple a day) and are living pay check to pay check to give your child the best chance in life, and yet these kids, who are great kids still struggle. This is where the issue comes in. Not the kids who struggle or aren't the brightest so parents create a diagnosis later on, which is gaming the system in less they just have crappy parents (like mine were) who felt was easier to ignore vs. get help even though they knew their child was struggling. We aren't talking about the kids in Infant and Toddler who didn't talk till 2.5. We are talking about the kids who don't start talking till age 5 and struggle with receptive language. Kids who don't start reading till 3 after years of tutoring with dyslexia. We are talking about kids who cannot grasp or memorize math facts easily and have been getting the help for years. Its easy to say, oh, Larla is ok, but you never really know. Most people look at mine and are shocked to know.

Exactly. I don't think anyone questions whether kids with severe learning disabilities should get accommodations, but rather that it's too easy for kids who don't really need them to get them as well. It taints the whole pool and is unfair to both ends of the spectrum.

You do realize kids like mine go without school services and supports because of attitudes like this. We gave up our Iep as school was not following it and it was useless to fight without an advocate and that money was better spent on real help. It’s not easy at all for many of us to get accommodations. Yes, some game the system but this is the same system that has failed so many of our kids. Be great full you are not in our situation. I do not care what outer parents do. I am too worried about my child succeeding and thriving. The test has always been tainted and bad. Just get rid of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unlimited time for all would work to meet the needs of the kids with disabilities.

Giving extended time to all would not and in reality extended time is often not enough for kids with more severe processing or attention disorders. It does help those with mild disorders and levels the playing field. The playing field is not leveled though if the group with a severe disability still has a deficiency, the group with the mild disability has been brought up to normal and the neuro typical group now has an advantage. You basically just moved the goal post up above the kids with LDs again.

That's what one who doesn't understand the issues would think. Extra time in and of itself wasn't devised to give students with LD's an advantage over regular kids just because they are otherwise disadvantaged. It was devised and designed to allow them to compensate for their disability--not to give them something extra. They don't need to have more time than the regular students, just the right amount of time for them.

None of the extended time accompanied are personalized to say one kid only needs 10 minutes vs another needs an hour. So to avoid abuse, give everyone untimed tests. If the goal is to test knowledge of materials, as obviously we are not testing processing speed when sunsets of the population are getting time accommodations, then why the resistance from anyone on giving Unlimted time to every kid? I don’t understand how parents who got accommodations for their kids won’t support this - there are lots of kids out there whose parents do not understand the system or have the money to get the diagnosis, so why not support untimed exams for every kid? Unless of course, you believe there is an advantage for your kid to getting this extra time and do not wish to give this advantage to a poorer kid who can’t afford to get a diagnosis....

Even with diagnosis it’s hard to get help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are at one of the so-called Big 3s here in DC. Two of my children have ADHD. Neither one of them gets accommodations because they need to learn how to handle it. They instead have an executive functioning coach. They are both in upper school now, and their grades are fine. Not stellar, but fine. One got into her first choice for college (not an Ivy or super-selective school).

My kids have told me that they think about 50% of the students get extra time. They say they don’t want it. But I am now wondering if I have somehow done them a disservice by not getting them accommodations. It’s a strange world.

The key here is that the world exists beyond college. So I would argue by not mowing down obstacles you have actually created a kids who will have learned to keep going even if they're not winning, to work harder than the next guy and advocate for what they want. My guess is at their 20th reunion, they will be far more successful than all those kids with accommodations who never learned to maneuver around and through problems.

Your generalizations and ignorance about disabilities is getting in your way. This maneuvering around a disability is a myth. Most kids with disabilities who are not helped, accommodated etc hate school by early elementary. To any parents with kids who are struggling at school, always keep your focus on never allowing any teacher, school, other students to make your kid hate school. Kids with disabilities with no support often stop trying and decide they are stupid. It's a waste of a valuable person to society to allow this. Kids with disabilities can't usually just gut it out. They often end up unemployed or in jail. This is why IDEA exists. The accommodations are a way of leveling the playing field so they can benefit from education like neurotypical kids.

I would like for the person who suggests that kids with disabilities should just "mow down obstacles" to volunteer his/her kids for "last place" in every race, every test, every measure of ability, for their entire educational career--do it without support or appropriate accommodation, knowing that dyslexia, ADHD, language disorders, dyscalculia, not intelligence, is what is holding them back. Tell them that failure has made them stronger and better.

Last place? You act so enlightened, but you still view learning as a competition?

Honestly, this is the problem right here, folks. This pp doesn’t care about her dc learning. Only about what place dc gets. It’s no wonder you want extra time so badly.

I'm not the poster your are criticizing but you are ignoring the point they are making. She's suggesting that parents with neurotypical kids often do not understand that the disabilities can't be overcome with just working harder. It is possible for these kids to be some of the brightest in the school or just college capable like other kids but a school career of failures will turn them off of school. Not having the supports often creates a pipeline to drug abuse and prison.

pp here "last place" is a poor word choice - my point is that being the last to do even basic things like read, or understand math, and to have terrible test scores no matter how hard you try, will make kids feel stupid, not strong. We don't need to compare kids to one another-- they do it on their own. School failure demoralizes them-- it doesn't make them stronger. What makes them stronger is support, encouragement, some "wins" and learning to advocate for themselves and their needs.
The outcomes for kids with unsupported and/or untreated learning issues goes way beyond whether they get into the college of their choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unlimited time for all would work to meet the needs of the kids with disabilities.

Giving extended time to all would not and in reality extended time is often not enough for kids with more severe processing or attention disorders. It does help those with mild disorders and levels the playing field. The playing field is not leveled though if the group with a severe disability still has a deficiency, the group with the mild disability has been brought up to normal and the neuro typical group now has an advantage. You basically just moved the goal post up above the kids with LDs again.

That's what one who doesn't understand the issues would think. Extra time in and of itself wasn't devised to give students with LD's an advantage over regular kids just because they are otherwise disadvantaged. It was devised and designed to allow them to compensate for their disability--not to give them something extra. They don't need to have more time than the regular students, just the right amount of time for them.

None of the extended time accompanied are personalized to say one kid only needs 10 minutes vs another needs an hour. So to avoid abuse, give everyone untimed tests. If the goal is to test knowledge of materials, as obviously we are not testing processing speed when sunsets of the population are getting time accommodations, then why the resistance from anyone on giving Unlimted time to every kid? I don’t understand how parents who got accommodations for their kids won’t support this - there are lots of kids out there whose parents do not understand the system or have the money to get the diagnosis, so why not support untimed exams for every kid? Unless of course, you believe there is an advantage for your kid to getting this extra time and do not wish to give this advantage to a poorer kid who can’t afford to get a diagnosis....

I'm the PP whose DC does get extended time and I do believe the tests should be unlimited time...for everyone. That's how to level it. Otherwise, you have to score based on fastest to slowest, which obviously would never happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The SAT and ACT is testing speed. I don’t care who says it’s not. The SAT and ACT have said it is.

So I have a problem with accommodations that completely take that out of the equation.

SAT: our test is designed to test scholastic aptitude under timed conditions.

Parent: but my kid does poorly under timed conditions.

SAT: well, then your child won’t do as good on this test. Er. Wait. No. Strike that. Then we will give your child more time?

This will never be fair to me. No dog in the fight, though.

You know, there are disabilities that have nothing to do with processing speed or testing speed that require accommodations. My DC has a disability that means they frequently have to go to the bathroom, sometimes multiple times within an hour, and when they have to go, they have to go. Much of the time it is unpredictable when this will happen. This DC's accommodations included extra time.

I have to say that is ridiculous.

Then you have never had Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis or known anyone with either. Count yourself blessed (and a jerk).

[Anonymous]

My son has tourettes I should make him take the test with your kids instead of a private room.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son has tourettes I should make him take the test with your kids instead of a private room.

And my DC with Crohn's will just sit there in his pile of $hit at the same time, stinking up the room. Serve some of these jerks right!

[Anonymous]

I want to be friends with 16:16 and 16:24

[Anonymous]

I'm saving the bulk of my outrage for the recruited athletes.

There is literally no reason why athletes at selective colleges should be 30% more likely to be admitted than any other candidate.

Does a member of the sailing / water polo / crew / track / tennis team really bring something that special to a university like Stanford, USC, Georgetown, University of Texas?

Even if a student has a marginally better SAT or ACT score due to a faked diagnosis and extra time, they still will have a lower chance of being admitted than a kid with the same score who happens to be an athlete.

And yes, the athlete has devoted him or herself to their sport and put in many hours of practice.

So has my kid, except he was learning to speak clearly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The SAT and ACT is testing speed. I don’t care who says it’s not. The SAT and ACT have said it is.

So I have a problem with accommodations that completely take that out of the equation.

SAT: our test is designed to test scholastic aptitude under timed conditions.

Parent: but my kid does poorly under timed conditions.

SAT: well, then your child won’t do as good on this test. Er. Wait. No. Strike that. Then we will give your child more time?

This will never be fair to me. No dog in the fight, though.

You know, there are disabilities that have nothing to do with processing speed or testing speed that require accommodations. My DC has a disability that means they frequently have to go to the bathroom, sometimes multiple times within an hour, and when they have to go, they have to go. Much of the time it is unpredictable when this will happen. This DC's accommodations included extra time.

I have to say that is ridiculous.

Then you have never had Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis or known anyone with either. Count yourself blessed (and a jerk).

It just doesn’t make sense to give this kid time and a half. He may have bathroom issues? If he’s having a bad day he should probably cancel his test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm saving the bulk of my outrage for the recruited athletes.

There is literally no reason why athletes at selective colleges should be 30% more likely to be admitted than any other candidate.

Does a member of the sailing / water polo / crew / track / tennis team really bring something that special to a university like Stanford, USC, Georgetown, University of Texas?

Even if a student has a marginally better SAT or ACT score due to a faked diagnosis and extra time, they still will have a lower chance of being admitted than a kid with the same score who happens to be an athlete.

And yes, the athlete has devoted him or herself to their sport and put in many hours of practice.

So has my kid, except he was learning to speak clearly.

Amen.

While I was at Georgetown the football team actually ran the wrong way down the field at homecoming at one point. I almost asked for my $1 admission back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son has tourettes I should make him take the test with your kids instead of a private room.

And my DC with Crohn's will just sit there in his pile of $hit at the same time, stinking up the room. Serve some of these jerks right!

Let me tell you, 10% of American kids don't all have Crohn's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son has tourettes I should make him take the test with your kids instead of a private room.

And my DC with Crohn's will just sit there in his pile of $hit at the same time, stinking up the room. Serve some of these jerks right!

Let me tell you, 10% of American kids don't all have Crohn's.

I am guessing this PP did not score well on any standardized test, particularly the math portion.