Claiming a disability on the SAT/ACT - have people been gaming the system?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the SAT/ACT should just change their process. One fee pays for two tests. First test is untimed, and everyone can take as long as they want. Second test is timed and no accommodations. Scores and test type submitted for both tests to schools.

This would be cheaper, clearer, and more fair in the long run.

Which would allow colleges to discriminate against kids with disabilities.

I think the word disability has been twisted and manipulated lately, particularly by affluent and influential parents. A poor kid who is bad at math is just bad at math. A rich kid who is bad at math has an expensive psychologist declare he has dyscalculia and gets to use a calculator and extra time. Meanwhile a middle class kid who is great at math within the allotted time frame and no calculator gets rejected from the college of his choice. Parents who are manipulating the system are giving the whole process a bad name.

+1

+2

Just because your husband is a lawyer, doesn't mean that your kid deserves more time or whatever.

[Anonymous]

Unlimited time for all would work to meet the needs of the kids with disabilities.

Giving extended time to all would not and in reality extended time is often not enough for kids with more severe processing or attention disorders. It does help those with mild disorders and levels the playing field. The playing field is not leveled though if the group with a severe disability still has a deficiency, the group with the mild disability has been brought up to normal and the neuro typical group now has an advantage. You basically just moved the goal post up above the kids with LDs again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get why parents of kids w accommodations are so against extended time or abolishing it completely for everyone esp in light of knowing certain segments of the population is abusing this.

The real issue is many of the parents commenting are the ones who have no issue gaming the system and it makes it very hard for some of us who have kids with LD - kids who struggled to read, talk, focus, grasp basic concepts and in less you have a child like that, you don't really get it. You aren't the parent who quit their job to take your child to daily tutoring and/or therapies (sometimes multiple a day) and are living pay check to pay check to give your child the best chance in life, and yet these kids, who are great kids still struggle. This is where the issue comes in. Not the kids who struggle or aren't the brightest so parents create a diagnosis later on, which is gaming the system in less they just have crappy parents (like mine were) who felt was easier to ignore vs. get help even though they knew their child was struggling. We aren't talking about the kids in Infant and Toddler who didn't talk till 2.5. We are talking about the kids who don't start talking till age 5 and struggle with receptive language. Kids who don't start reading till 3 after years of tutoring with dyslexia. We are talking about kids who cannot grasp or memorize math facts easily and have been getting the help for years. Its easy to say, oh, Larla is ok, but you never really know. Most people look at mine and are shocked to know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unlimited time for all would work to meet the needs of the kids with disabilities.

Giving extended time to all would not and in reality extended time is often not enough for kids with more severe processing or attention disorders. It does help those with mild disorders and levels the playing field. The playing field is not leveled though if the group with a severe disability still has a deficiency, the group with the mild disability has been brought up to normal and the neuro typical group now has an advantage. You basically just moved the goal post up above the kids with LDs again.

I think we should get rid fo the tests all together as kids take so many standardized tests and schools can use those. Reality is we really need colleges that are affordable for these kids who understand the needs, not just giving accommodations but then the issue becomes if kids get so many supports early on how will they function in the real world. I think there should be clear documented proof going back from when kids are very young, and not just high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the SAT/ACT should just change their process. One fee pays for two tests. First test is untimed, and everyone can take as long as they want. Second test is timed and no accommodations. Scores and test type submitted for both tests to schools.

This would be cheaper, clearer, and more fair in the long run.

Which would allow colleges to discriminate against kids with disabilities.

I think the word disability has been twisted and manipulated lately, particularly by affluent and influential parents. A poor kid who is bad at math is just bad at math. A rich kid who is bad at math has an expensive psychologist declare he has dyscalculia and gets to use a calculator and extra time. Meanwhile a middle class kid who is great at math within the allotted time frame and no calculator gets rejected from the college of his choice. Parents who are manipulating the system are giving the whole process a bad name.

How do you know that the poor kid doesn't have undiagnosed dyscalculia?

Of course he does! Dyscalculia = bad at math. But it’s irrelevant what you call it for the poor kid. The point is, you only get “dyscalculia” if you are willing to pay big money to a psychologist. So you end up with our current situation, where rich kids are all either gifted or learning disabled, and poor kids are either good at school naturally or are labeled lazy disciplinary problems whose parents don’t care about education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get why parents of kids w accommodations are so against extended time or abolishing it completely for everyone esp in light of knowing certain segments of the population is abusing this.

The real issue is many of the parents commenting are the ones who have no issue gaming the system and it makes it very hard for some of us who have kids with LD - kids who struggled to read, talk, focus, grasp basic concepts and in less you have a child like that, you don't really get it. You aren't the parent who quit their job to take your child to daily tutoring and/or therapies (sometimes multiple a day) and are living pay check to pay check to give your child the best chance in life, and yet these kids, who are great kids still struggle. This is where the issue comes in. Not the kids who struggle or aren't the brightest so parents create a diagnosis later on, which is gaming the system in less they just have crappy parents (like mine were) who felt was easier to ignore vs. get help even though they knew their child was struggling. We aren't talking about the kids in Infant and Toddler who didn't talk till 2.5. We are talking about the kids who don't start talking till age 5 and struggle with receptive language. Kids who don't start reading till 3 after years of tutoring with dyslexia. We are talking about kids who cannot grasp or memorize math facts easily and have been getting the help for years. Its easy to say, oh, Larla is ok, but you never really know. Most people look at mine and are shocked to know.

Exactly. I don't think anyone questions whether kids with severe learning disabilities should get accommodations, but rather that it's too easy for kids who don't really need them to get them as well. It taints the whole pool and is unfair to both ends of the spectrum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The SAT and ACT is testing speed. I don’t care who says it’s not. The SAT and ACT have said it is.

So I have a problem with accommodations that completely take that out of the equation.

SAT: our test is designed to test scholastic aptitude under timed conditions.

Parent: but my kid does poorly under timed conditions.

SAT: well, then your child won’t do as good on this test. Er. Wait. No. Strike that. Then we will give your child more time?

This will never be fair to me. No dog in the fight, though.

You know, there are disabilities that have nothing to do with processing speed or testing speed that require accommodations. My DC has a disability that means they frequently have to go to the bathroom, sometimes multiple times within an hour, and when they have to go, they have to go. Much of the time it is unpredictable when this will happen. This DC's accommodations included extra time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The SAT and ACT is testing speed. I don’t care who says it’s not. The SAT and ACT have said it is.

So I have a problem with accommodations that completely take that out of the equation.

SAT: our test is designed to test scholastic aptitude under timed conditions.

Parent: but my kid does poorly under timed conditions.

SAT: well, then your child won’t do as good on this test. Er. Wait. No. Strike that. Then we will give your child more time?

This will never be fair to me. No dog in the fight, though.

You know, there are disabilities that have nothing to do with processing speed or testing speed that require accommodations. My DC has a disability that means they frequently have to go to the bathroom, sometimes multiple times within an hour, and when they have to go, they have to go. Much of the time it is unpredictable when this will happen. This DC's accommodations included extra time.

So untimed for everyone!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The SAT and ACT is testing speed. I don’t care who says it’s not. The SAT and ACT have said it is.

So I have a problem with accommodations that completely take that out of the equation.

SAT: our test is designed to test scholastic aptitude under timed conditions.

Parent: but my kid does poorly under timed conditions.

SAT: well, then your child won’t do as good on this test. Er. Wait. No. Strike that. Then we will give your child more time?

This will never be fair to me. No dog in the fight, though.

You know, there are disabilities that have nothing to do with processing speed or testing speed that require accommodations. My DC has a disability that means they frequently have to go to the bathroom, sometimes multiple times within an hour, and when they have to go, they have to go. Much of the time it is unpredictable when this will happen. This DC's accommodations included extra time.

I have to say that is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you know the answer, why does it matter how fast you can write it down? How often does anyone in the real world even use a pencil anymore? Who has a job that requires perfectly filling in little circles with a No.2 pencil?

Why do they still have to fill in the g-dmnd little circles in a timed setting?

They don't. It's on a computer. And yes, speed counts. I would like my surgeon not to have to pause too long before deciding which sized stent to stick in my artery or for may lawyer to write her brief in less time so she can do other work as well.

So you think exceptionally bright people only become doctors or lawyers? First of all, some of the least intelligent people I have ever met are lawyers. Secondly, I would not want my brilliant DS to operate on you either, but he can solve the world's problems because of his unmatched ability to think critically, even though he has low processing speed. You on the other hand display a complete inability to grasp the concept of intelligence.

'

you really need to give it a rest. your DS wiht an "unmatched ability to think critically" will be FINE. he does not need 1.5 time on the SAT, unless you think that he must do EVERYTHING THE BEST.

The best? Are you kidding me? That poor kid isn't the best at anything, at all. He should be (and he's a hell of a lot better person than you and probably any of your offspring) great at a lot, but being born with an extremely challenging set of learning styles makes the very rigorous school he goes to almost unbearable at times. I know this is all challenging for you to comprehend.

PP mentions that her kid's life isn't very easy. Where's the excuse here?

You sound delusional about your ds’s abilities and like you have an excuse for anything not pointing to “unmatched ability” to whatever. Np

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unlimited time for all would work to meet the needs of the kids with disabilities.

Giving extended time to all would not and in reality extended time is often not enough for kids with more severe processing or attention disorders. It does help those with mild disorders and levels the playing field. The playing field is not leveled though if the group with a severe disability still has a deficiency, the group with the mild disability has been brought up to normal and the neuro typical group now has an advantage. You basically just moved the goal post up above the kids with LDs again.

That's what one who doesn't understand the issues would think. Extra time in and of itself wasn't devised to give students with LD's an advantage over regular kids just because they are otherwise disadvantaged. It was devised and designed to allow them to compensate for their disability--not to give them something extra. They don't need to have more time than the regular students, just the right amount of time for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The SAT and ACT is testing speed. I don’t care who says it’s not. The SAT and ACT have said it is.

So I have a problem with accommodations that completely take that out of the equation.

SAT: our test is designed to test scholastic aptitude under timed conditions.

Parent: but my kid does poorly under timed conditions.

SAT: well, then your child won’t do as good on this test. Er. Wait. No. Strike that. Then we will give your child more time?

This will never be fair to me. No dog in the fight, though.

You know, there are disabilities that have nothing to do with processing speed or testing speed that require accommodations. My DC has a disability that means they frequently have to go to the bathroom, sometimes multiple times within an hour, and when they have to go, they have to go. Much of the time it is unpredictable when this will happen. This DC's accommodations included extra time.

I have to say that is ridiculous.

Huh? That seems totally reasonable to me if a kid has IBS or something similar. What are they supposed to do- sit there and poop?

[Anonymous]

A documented disability just means someone paid a doctor to make their child’s particular condition official. But where does it end?

According to NAMI, 20% of children and teens have a mental health condition: https://www.nami.org/NAMI/media/NAMI-Media/Infographics/Children-MH-Facts-NAMI.pdf So do they all get accommodations? In addition, 27% of kids apparently have some sort of chronic illness: https://www.focusforhealth.org/chronic-illnesses-and-the-state-of-our-childrens-health/ Even if some of this two categories overlap, we’re still talking about a third or more of all kids with some kind of health condition that may affect testing.

Currently, only the rich subset of these kids is getting accommodations. Some may say they’re taking advantage. They’re asserting that their children have exceptional needs and most other children don’t. But the numbers show that many, many children do. And it begins to sound preposterous if a third or more of children were to get accommodations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The SAT and ACT is testing speed. I don’t care who says it’s not. The SAT and ACT have said it is.

So I have a problem with accommodations that completely take that out of the equation.

SAT: our test is designed to test scholastic aptitude under timed conditions.

Parent: but my kid does poorly under timed conditions.

SAT: well, then your child won’t do as good on this test. Er. Wait. No. Strike that. Then we will give your child more time?

This will never be fair to me. No dog in the fight, though.

You know, there are disabilities that have nothing to do with processing speed or testing speed that require accommodations. My DC has a disability that means they frequently have to go to the bathroom, sometimes multiple times within an hour, and when they have to go, they have to go. Much of the time it is unpredictable when this will happen. This DC's accommodations included extra time.

So untimed for everyone!!

Do that and then don't be surprised when half of all students in complex majors drop out the first year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The SAT and ACT is testing speed. I don’t care who says it’s not. The SAT and ACT have said it is.

So I have a problem with accommodations that completely take that out of the equation.

SAT: our test is designed to test scholastic aptitude under timed conditions.

Parent: but my kid does poorly under timed conditions.

SAT: well, then your child won’t do as good on this test. Er. Wait. No. Strike that. Then we will give your child more time?

This will never be fair to me. No dog in the fight, though.

You know, there are disabilities that have nothing to do with processing speed or testing speed that require accommodations. My DC has a disability that means they frequently have to go to the bathroom, sometimes multiple times within an hour, and when they have to go, they have to go. Much of the time it is unpredictable when this will happen. This DC's accommodations included extra time.

So untimed for everyone!!

Do that and then don't be surprised when half of all students in complex majors drop out the first year.

Doesn’t that happen already?