New OPM memo on RTO

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

Yes that’s exactly what parents did. Some families can flex schedules so one parent drops off and goes in later while the other goes in earlier and does end of the day pick up. Others get nannies, after school sitters or use family help. People do before and aftercare with summer camps and camp selection often was based on work needs not kid preferences. It was common for people to do some work from home in the evenings or early mornings on those occasions where not everything got completed during the work day. And lots of vacation leave gets sucked up by days off from school if you don’t have childcare that runs during periods when schools are closed.

People who had their kids in 2019 or before would be familiar with this. It’s just going back to pre Covid life.

Yes and no. It’s true that we did a lot of those things but there wasn’t zero flexibility for a lot of us even as feds. I’ve had some telework 1-2 days a week for two decades and managers were generally willing to grant situational telework for a week or two in the summer if you had a tough camp schedule that didn’t offer aftercare or something or other similar kinds of flexibilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

Yes that’s exactly what parents did. Some families can flex schedules so one parent drops off and goes in later while the other goes in earlier and does end of the day pick up. Others get nannies, after school sitters or use family help. People do before and aftercare with summer camps and camp selection often was based on work needs not kid preferences. It was common for people to do some work from home in the evenings or early mornings on those occasions where not everything got completed during the work day. And lots of vacation leave gets sucked up by days off from school if you don’t have childcare that runs during periods when schools are closed.

People who had their kids in 2019 or before would be familiar with this. It’s just going back to pre Covid life.

My agency has had 3 days telework per week since I joined in 2015 (and probably for a while before then). I took a massive pay cut for this perk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're not legalesing you're way out of this people. It's back to the office. 5 days per week. So many snowflakes when the grocery store worker has to go in everyday or the mechanic fixing your car does too. Big whoop, you have to click a computer mouse for a few hours per day in the office so you can't sleep at home and use time on the clock to babysit your kids. Welcome to the real world like the rest of America.

Sorry to ruin your party but most of us have union contracts that protect for years to come...and I do not have kids at home. I work.

Post the language here so we can see it.

Oh, what will you do with the info?

Then I will believe it. I want to see a CNA that actually guarantees telework because mine does not.

Why don’t you post the language from yours?

Np. The HHS NTEU contract (signed 2023 and good for 5 years) says “Regular and recurring telework may be performed for up to eight (8) days per pay period (e.g., Monday-Thursday or each week), unless the employee is approved for remote work. Employees on routine telework must normally report to the official duty station (ODS) at least twice per pay period..”

Seems good to me. I get the point about the “up to” language as said throughout this thread, but if the BU is promised up to 8 days, but the entire BU is given exactly 0 days by agency rule, that’s worth suing on.

It really isn't. That is a cap, not a floor. And that there is a cap does not imply that there must be a floor. This is unambiguous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

Yes that’s exactly what parents did. Some families can flex schedules so one parent drops off and goes in later while the other goes in earlier and does end of the day pick up. Others get nannies, after school sitters or use family help. People do before and aftercare with summer camps and camp selection often was based on work needs not kid preferences. It was common for people to do some work from home in the evenings or early mornings on those occasions where not everything got completed during the work day. And lots of vacation leave gets sucked up by days off from school if you don’t have childcare that runs during periods when schools are closed.

People who had their kids in 2019 or before would be familiar with this. It’s just going back to pre Covid life.

Yes and no. It’s true that we did a lot of those things but there wasn’t zero flexibility for a lot of us even as feds. I’ve had some telework 1-2 days a week for two decades and managers were generally willing to grant situational telework for a week or two in the summer if you had a tough camp schedule that didn’t offer aftercare or something or other similar kinds of flexibilities.

And ultimately I think this is where things will land again once the dust settles. Blame this on all of the people who refused to come back to the office 2-3 days/week when asked. This is for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

Staggered schedules. Before remote work, I went in at 6:45 and was home by 3:45 to do pickup and DH did school drop off at 8 and was home by 7:15. Our kids are older now, so they can be home alone if needed, but the big issue for us is sports practices. The good news is that DH and I both carried over the max last year and earn 27 days of leave a year so we will be able to take a couple hours of leave each week for emergencies. Additionally, we both accrued quite a lot of sickleave over the past five years because we did not need to take leave when we were sick and could just work from home. It means that we will plan doctors appointments for days that we otherwise would need to be home. I took some sickleave when I had kids, but DH has probably taken two sick days the entire time he’s been a fed (20 years).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

Yes my kids went to camps with extended day options every week except when we were on vacation. During the school year, I got up super early to head to DC, DH got the kids to before care as it opened. Since he had a short commute, he would pick them up at the bus and do the activities before I got home. One night a week I left work early and he worked very late to make up the hours. Honestly I did not think about it at the time. I got very little sleep but I did it. Now I feel like I wasted 40 hours every month commuting. Of course tech has changed so much. I did not even have a laptop when my kids were little.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

Staggered schedules. Before remote work, I went in at 6:45 and was home by 3:45 to do pickup and DH did school drop off at 8 and was home by 7:15. Our kids are older now, so they can be home alone if needed, but the big issue for us is sports practices. The good news is that DH and I both carried over the max last year and earn 27 days of leave a year so we will be able to take a couple hours of leave each week for emergencies. Additionally, we both accrued quite a lot of sickleave over the past five years because we did not need to take leave when we were sick and could just work from home. It means that we will plan doctors appointments for days that we otherwise would need to be home. I took some sickleave when I had kids, but DH has probably taken two sick days the entire time he’s been a fed (20 years).

Am I the only sucker who took sick leave to be sick and go to (take my kids to) appointments?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

People who had their kids in 2019 or before would be familiar with this. It’s just going back to pre Covid life.

Except these services are less available, have shorter hours, and are more expensive.

Also, I had my kids pre-2019, and commuted, but I would never have taken a job 2 hours away like I did post-2019. Some of us were hired remote! The conditions are different. And housing doesn't cost 2019 prices anymore either, so "just move closer" isn't that easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

Yes my kids went to camps with extended day options every week except when we were on vacation. During the school year, I got up super early to head to DC, DH got the kids to before care as it opened. Since he had a short commute, he would pick them up at the bus and do the activities before I got home. One night a week I left work early and he worked very late to make up the hours. Honestly I did not think about it at the time. I got very little sleep but I did it. Now I feel like I wasted 40 hours every month commuting. Of course tech has changed so much. I did not even have a laptop when my kids were little.

Same, DH worked 7-3 and I worked 9:30-4:30 (I had more flexibility). This way we avoided before care and then only used aftercare until 4. For camps, we had to choose camps that went until 4 or had aftercare.

[Anonymous]

There is no telework people, none!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

Staggered schedules. Before remote work, I went in at 6:45 and was home by 3:45 to do pickup and DH did school drop off at 8 and was home by 7:15. Our kids are older now, so they can be home alone if needed, but the big issue for us is sports practices. The good news is that DH and I both carried over the max last year and earn 27 days of leave a year so we will be able to take a couple hours of leave each week for emergencies. Additionally, we both accrued quite a lot of sickleave over the past five years because we did not need to take leave when we were sick and could just work from home. It means that we will plan doctors appointments for days that we otherwise would need to be home. I took some sickleave when I had kids, but DH has probably taken two sick days the entire time he’s been a fed (20 years).

Am I the only sucker who took sick leave to be sick and go to (take my kids to) appointments?

No, I am low on sick and annual leave because I have little kids and I took off for every minute and hour and appointment. I did things the right way and you are not alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

Yes my kids went to camps with extended day options every week except when we were on vacation. During the school year, I got up super early to head to DC, DH got the kids to before care as it opened. Since he had a short commute, he would pick them up at the bus and do the activities before I got home. One night a week I left work early and he worked very late to make up the hours. Honestly I did not think about it at the time. I got very little sleep but I did it. Now I feel like I wasted 40 hours every month commuting. Of course tech has changed so much. I did not even have a laptop when my kids were little.

Same, DH worked 7-3 and I worked 9:30-4:30 (I had more flexibility). This way we avoided before care and then only used aftercare until 4. For camps, we had to choose camps that went until 4 or had aftercare.

Your agency does not make you take the required 30 min unpaid lunch? What agency?

[Anonymous]

My kids were born in 2009 and 2011, my DH and I are both feds. One of us would get to work between 7-8 while the other got the kids ready for daycare / school and did dropoff. They were consistently in extended day and then whoever could leave work earlier since they arrived earlier would get them by 6. It was hard but survive-able. Same drill with summer camps, there are a lot of cool ones in the area we just couldn’t do because the hours didn’t work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

Yes that’s exactly what parents did. Some families can flex schedules so one parent drops off and goes in later while the other goes in earlier and does end of the day pick up. Others get nannies, after school sitters or use family help. People do before and aftercare with summer camps and camp selection often was based on work needs not kid preferences. It was common for people to do some work from home in the evenings or early mornings on those occasions where not everything got completed during the work day. And lots of vacation leave gets sucked up by days off from school if you don’t have childcare that runs during periods when schools are closed.

People who had their kids in 2019 or before would be familiar with this. It’s just going back to pre Covid life.

Yes and no. It’s true that we did a lot of those things but there wasn’t zero flexibility for a lot of us even as feds. I’ve had some telework 1-2 days a week for two decades and managers were generally willing to grant situational telework for a week or two in the summer if you had a tough camp schedule that didn’t offer aftercare or something or other similar kinds of flexibilities.

Agreed. DH and I had a lot of flexibility even before COVID and there was plenty of telework/remote work happening. Obviously not as much as during the pandemic, but it wasn’t at this level.

This tone is also different, too. At least where we’ve worked, people just want the work to get done. No one was hovering over us or threatening to report anyone.

[Anonymous]

SSA and VA appeals attorneys are all teleworkers, so boy the seniors are going to suffer. They absolutely don't pay those attorneys enough for them to move to DC.