TJ Admissions Roundup

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Once again, if you can just buy your way into TJ, why aren't there more white kids there?

Because they aren’t as driven by national rankings? Not as interested in STEM or a grind HS experience?

It was well known in my affluent area that you could greatly improve chances of admissions by paying $$$ for prep classes.

It’s a choice that affluent families had.

20 years ago, TJ was majority white. Did they suddenly develop a disdain STEM and competitive high schools over the last 4 years? Or did they get crowded out?

Not so suddenly, but yes, there has been less push for kids to attend ultra competitive environments. The number of white applicants has been declining over the years.

I was a STEM kid at a competitive HS who went on to a T10 program. I intentionally did not encourage my kids to go to TJ.

I haven't looked at all years, but during previous thread I looked at the numbers for class of 2015.
56% of all Asian 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ
99% of them did apply

45% of all white 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ
49% of them did apply


FWIW, 92% of eligible black 8th graders in FCPS that year applied.

Here are the numbers.

Only half of eligible white students applied (vs 99% of Asian students). They don’t want the competitive environment.

I was a STEM kid at a competitive HS who went on to a T10 program. I intentionally did not encourage my kids to go to TJ.

The eligibility criteria were laughably low. I think the GPA requirement was like a 3.0.

There was a time when TJ was majority white, the white kids didn't leave, they got pushed out.
See this chart by the college board showing that 22% of asian kids geta 750 or higher on the math section of the SAT. That number if 4% for whites.
23% of asians get a 1400 SAT score or higher, that number if 7% for whites kids
9% of asians get a 1500 SAT score or higher, than number is 2% for white kids
White kids are clearly trying to get good SAT scores but they cannot seem to do so at the same rate as asians.

The white kids weren't foregoing tjhsst because they didn't want to deal with the competitive environment. They couldn't get in and they knew it so they didn't try.

Yes, as the prep wars escalated, many were pushed out because it just wasn't worth spending $20k on prep to ensure admissions.

$20K on prep? Pfft, this isn't travel ball.

I don't know exactly how much curie is but it looks like a couple thousand a year at most and the test prep is $300.
This is just more racist rationalization trying to explain why asians are outperforming white kids all over the country and at every income level.

For the “signature program” it’s $7k for all 4 semesters. More if you start your kid before 7th grade.

“Curie Learning’s Signature Level 7/8 Program
This program incorporates high-level coursework in math, English, writing, science, and critical thinking, with a focus on preparation for success in high school and college. This program will help students to not only prepare for any advanced institutions such as AOS/AET and TJ, but also to succeed and even thrive in any high school and later in any college/university.

Semester 1: (4 classes/month) $1,095.00 Aug. 25th, 2023 - Dec.19th, 2023
*Semester 2: (7 classes/month) $1,850.00 Jan. 2nd, 2024 - June 23rd, 2024
Additional $300 for extra classes for new students. (Mandatory)
Semester 3 (option 1): (8-11 classes/month) $1,850.00 + $300 (TJ/AOS/AET Extra Prep classes):
Jul.8th, 2024 - Dec 2024
Semester 3 (option 2): (7 classes/month) $1,200.00 Sept 2023 - Dec 2023
Semester 4: (6 classes/month) $1,600.00 Jan 2024-Jun 2024”

So about $280/month?
That's not nothing but it doesn't seem like a rich kid program.

Can't argue with success. Their ad in the paper showed that one-third of TJ's entering class were their customers.

When a huge portion of the admitted class comes from an expensive test prep company then you know something is wrong.


For many years, people have been appalled at how a public school magnet excluded so many groups in the community. The class of 2024 had less than 1% (0.6%) of the students from low-income families. Very little representation from URMs and MSs with many low-income families. TJ was mostly filled with kids from affluent "feeder" middle schools.

FCPS has changed the TJ admissions process multiple times over the years to address systemic inequalities.
https://www.fcag.org/tjadmissions.shtml

Expensive test prep has also been an ongoing issue that exacerbated the lack of representation from certain MSs and groups.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” [school board member] Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

"McLaughlin, like other board members, still worries about Washington’s booming test-prep industry. Modeled on Korean “cram” schools, classes meet after school, on weekends, and throughout the summer. “They’ve become professionals at that process of getting into TJ,” says Josh Silverman, a private tutor in the area."


Paying to have access to previous test questions on an NDA-protected test provides an unfair advantage to wealthy kids in admissions for this public school program.

LOL.

You just do not have a basic understanding of math. That is ok. Just funny someone like that talks about TJHSST.

25+% is a huge portion (133/486) coming from a single test prep company given the size of the region.

Happy to help explain basic math to you at any point.

The problem was never the 133 out of 486 coming from one prep test company.
The problem was the 355 out of 486 that came from one raciall group.
If those 133 kids were the only asians at TJ, they wouldn't have changed the admissions process.

It wasn’t a “too many Asians” problem. It was a “not enough URMs, ED, EL, SN” problem.

If they just wanted to cut down on the # of Asian students they wouldn’t have expanded the class size. But they added the seats to ADD the less-represented groups.

This is complete nonsense. The selection process is race blind. The problem was all the students came from just a few wealthy feeder schools where kids could afford test prep. The changes to the process made it so students were the top students from all schools.

The selection process was changed to adjust the racial composition of the school.
It discarded merit for race.

#fakenews

That is false and is illegal. If you can prove it, you can win a massive multimillion-dollar suit against the county!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have to believe that business people running TJ-focused test prep businesses will get their students who take the new math test to describe the questions afterwards, so that next year’s applicants can practice the same or nearly the same math problems at the center. After all, a test prep center which does so will over time have a better and better chance of getting their students admitted to TJ, which would support higher fees and growth in prep class attendance.

This simply is Business 101, so I have to believe it will happen.

This is unethical when the students taking the test have signed a statement promising that they would not discuss the questions. Obviously, this practice is getting into cheating territory, not to mention encouraging children to engage in unethical practices.

If you see this practice as Business 101, I have to wonder what your character is like and what kind of integrity you maintain in other aspects of your life.

This already happened and is why they had to change the process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Once again, if you can just buy your way into TJ, why aren't there more white kids there?

Because they aren’t as driven by national rankings? Not as interested in STEM or a grind HS experience?

It was well known in my affluent area that you could greatly improve chances of admissions by paying $$$ for prep classes.

It’s a choice that affluent families had.

20 years ago, TJ was majority white. Did they suddenly develop a disdain STEM and competitive high schools over the last 4 years? Or did they get crowded out?

Not so suddenly, but yes, there has been less push for kids to attend ultra competitive environments. The number of white applicants has been declining over the years.

I was a STEM kid at a competitive HS who went on to a T10 program. I intentionally did not encourage my kids to go to TJ.

I haven't looked at all years, but during previous thread I looked at the numbers for class of 2015.
56% of all Asian 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ
99% of them did apply

45% of all white 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ
49% of them did apply


FWIW, 92% of eligible black 8th graders in FCPS that year applied.

Here are the numbers.

Only half of eligible white students applied (vs 99% of Asian students). They don’t want the competitive environment.

I was a STEM kid at a competitive HS who went on to a T10 program. I intentionally did not encourage my kids to go to TJ.

The eligibility criteria were laughably low. I think the GPA requirement was like a 3.0.

There was a time when TJ was majority white, the white kids didn't leave, they got pushed out.
See this chart by the college board showing that 22% of asian kids geta 750 or higher on the math section of the SAT. That number if 4% for whites.
23% of asians get a 1400 SAT score or higher, that number if 7% for whites kids
9% of asians get a 1500 SAT score or higher, than number is 2% for white kids
White kids are clearly trying to get good SAT scores but they cannot seem to do so at the same rate as asians.

The white kids weren't foregoing tjhsst because they didn't want to deal with the competitive environment. They couldn't get in and they knew it so they didn't try.

Yes, as the prep wars escalated, many were pushed out because it just wasn't worth spending $20k on prep to ensure admissions.

$20K on prep? Pfft, this isn't travel ball.

I don't know exactly how much curie is but it looks like a couple thousand a year at most and the test prep is $300.
This is just more racist rationalization trying to explain why asians are outperforming white kids all over the country and at every income level.

For the “signature program” it’s $7k for all 4 semesters. More if you start your kid before 7th grade.

“Curie Learning’s Signature Level 7/8 Program
This program incorporates high-level coursework in math, English, writing, science, and critical thinking, with a focus on preparation for success in high school and college. This program will help students to not only prepare for any advanced institutions such as AOS/AET and TJ, but also to succeed and even thrive in any high school and later in any college/university.

Semester 1: (4 classes/month) $1,095.00 Aug. 25th, 2023 - Dec.19th, 2023
*Semester 2: (7 classes/month) $1,850.00 Jan. 2nd, 2024 - June 23rd, 2024
Additional $300 for extra classes for new students. (Mandatory)
Semester 3 (option 1): (8-11 classes/month) $1,850.00 + $300 (TJ/AOS/AET Extra Prep classes):
Jul.8th, 2024 - Dec 2024
Semester 3 (option 2): (7 classes/month) $1,200.00 Sept 2023 - Dec 2023
Semester 4: (6 classes/month) $1,600.00 Jan 2024-Jun 2024”

So about $280/month?
That's not nothing but it doesn't seem like a rich kid program.

Can't argue with success. Their ad in the paper showed that one-third of TJ's entering class were their customers.

When a huge portion of the admitted class comes from an expensive test prep company then you know something is wrong.


For many years, people have been appalled at how a public school magnet excluded so many groups in the community. The class of 2024 had less than 1% (0.6%) of the students from low-income families. Very little representation from URMs and MSs with many low-income families. TJ was mostly filled with kids from affluent "feeder" middle schools.

FCPS has changed the TJ admissions process multiple times over the years to address systemic inequalities.
https://www.fcag.org/tjadmissions.shtml

Expensive test prep has also been an ongoing issue that exacerbated the lack of representation from certain MSs and groups.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” [school board member] Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

"McLaughlin, like other board members, still worries about Washington’s booming test-prep industry. Modeled on Korean “cram” schools, classes meet after school, on weekends, and throughout the summer. “They’ve become professionals at that process of getting into TJ,” says Josh Silverman, a private tutor in the area."


Paying to have access to previous test questions on an NDA-protected test provides an unfair advantage to wealthy kids in admissions for this public school program.

LOL.

You just do not have a basic understanding of math. That is ok. Just funny someone like that talks about TJHSST.

25+% is a huge portion (133/486) coming from a single test prep company given the size of the region.

Happy to help explain basic math to you at any point.

The problem was never the 133 out of 486 coming from one prep test company.
The problem was the 355 out of 486 that came from one raciall group.
If those 133 kids were the only asians at TJ, they wouldn't have changed the admissions process.

It wasn’t a “too many Asians” problem. It was a “not enough URMs, ED, EL, SN” problem.

If they just wanted to cut down on the # of Asian students they wouldn’t have expanded the class size. But they added the seats to ADD the less-represented groups.

This is complete nonsense. The selection process is race blind. The problem was all the students came from just a few wealthy feeder schools where kids could afford test prep. The changes to the process made it so students were the top students from all schools.

CORRECT!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I have found interesting is that under the previous regime, E Asians (e.g., China, Korea, Taiwan, Japan) were not over-represented and SE Asians (e.g., Singapore, Malaysia, Viet Nam, Thailand) were not over-represented. Yet, both sets of ethnic groups are known to be very academically focused, with after school tutoring at hone or in a center other than Curie being fairly common.

Only S Asians were over-represented at TJHSST under the previous admissions regime, and Curie clearly targeted the S Asian parents. Curious correlation.

I thought East-Asians have been over-represented since TJ opened in 1985. It's just that there weren't that many Asians in Fairfax back then so TJ was mostly white until maybe 2012 or so.
The class of 2024 looks like East-Asians were definitely over-represented relative to the population in the county.

South Asians are just the latest in a long line of over-achieving immigrants that are labelled cheater because white people cannot fathom how these people with thick accents could possibly be smarter than them. These same people just stopped accusing East-Asians of cheating like 10 minutes ago.

None of these groups are smarter than any others. Some just tend to have more resources than others.

More like some groups just study more than others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Once again, if you can just buy your way into TJ, why aren't there more white kids there?

Because they aren’t as driven by national rankings? Not as interested in STEM or a grind HS experience?

It was well known in my affluent area that you could greatly improve chances of admissions by paying $$$ for prep classes.

It’s a choice that affluent families had.

20 years ago, TJ was majority white. Did they suddenly develop a disdain STEM and competitive high schools over the last 4 years? Or did they get crowded out?

Not so suddenly, but yes, there has been less push for kids to attend ultra competitive environments. The number of white applicants has been declining over the years.

I was a STEM kid at a competitive HS who went on to a T10 program. I intentionally did not encourage my kids to go to TJ.

I haven't looked at all years, but during previous thread I looked at the numbers for class of 2015.
56% of all Asian 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ
99% of them did apply

45% of all white 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ
49% of them did apply


FWIW, 92% of eligible black 8th graders in FCPS that year applied.

Here are the numbers.

Only half of eligible white students applied (vs 99% of Asian students). They don’t want the competitive environment.

I was a STEM kid at a competitive HS who went on to a T10 program. I intentionally did not encourage my kids to go to TJ.

The eligibility criteria were laughably low. I think the GPA requirement was like a 3.0.

There was a time when TJ was majority white, the white kids didn't leave, they got pushed out.
See this chart by the college board showing that 22% of asian kids geta 750 or higher on the math section of the SAT. That number if 4% for whites.
23% of asians get a 1400 SAT score or higher, that number if 7% for whites kids
9% of asians get a 1500 SAT score or higher, than number is 2% for white kids
White kids are clearly trying to get good SAT scores but they cannot seem to do so at the same rate as asians.

The white kids weren't foregoing tjhsst because they didn't want to deal with the competitive environment. They couldn't get in and they knew it so they didn't try.

Yes, as the prep wars escalated, many were pushed out because it just wasn't worth spending $20k on prep to ensure admissions.

$20K on prep? Pfft, this isn't travel ball.

I don't know exactly how much curie is but it looks like a couple thousand a year at most and the test prep is $300.
This is just more racist rationalization trying to explain why asians are outperforming white kids all over the country and at every income level.

For the “signature program” it’s $7k for all 4 semesters. More if you start your kid before 7th grade.

“Curie Learning’s Signature Level 7/8 Program
This program incorporates high-level coursework in math, English, writing, science, and critical thinking, with a focus on preparation for success in high school and college. This program will help students to not only prepare for any advanced institutions such as AOS/AET and TJ, but also to succeed and even thrive in any high school and later in any college/university.

Semester 1: (4 classes/month) $1,095.00 Aug. 25th, 2023 - Dec.19th, 2023
*Semester 2: (7 classes/month) $1,850.00 Jan. 2nd, 2024 - June 23rd, 2024
Additional $300 for extra classes for new students. (Mandatory)
Semester 3 (option 1): (8-11 classes/month) $1,850.00 + $300 (TJ/AOS/AET Extra Prep classes):
Jul.8th, 2024 - Dec 2024
Semester 3 (option 2): (7 classes/month) $1,200.00 Sept 2023 - Dec 2023
Semester 4: (6 classes/month) $1,600.00 Jan 2024-Jun 2024”

So about $280/month?
That's not nothing but it doesn't seem like a rich kid program.

Can't argue with success. Their ad in the paper showed that one-third of TJ's entering class were their customers.

When a huge portion of the admitted class comes from an expensive test prep company then you know something is wrong.


For many years, people have been appalled at how a public school magnet excluded so many groups in the community. The class of 2024 had less than 1% (0.6%) of the students from low-income families. Very little representation from URMs and MSs with many low-income families. TJ was mostly filled with kids from affluent "feeder" middle schools.

FCPS has changed the TJ admissions process multiple times over the years to address systemic inequalities.
https://www.fcag.org/tjadmissions.shtml

Expensive test prep has also been an ongoing issue that exacerbated the lack of representation from certain MSs and groups.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” [school board member] Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

"McLaughlin, like other board members, still worries about Washington’s booming test-prep industry. Modeled on Korean “cram” schools, classes meet after school, on weekends, and throughout the summer. “They’ve become professionals at that process of getting into TJ,” says Josh Silverman, a private tutor in the area."


Paying to have access to previous test questions on an NDA-protected test provides an unfair advantage to wealthy kids in admissions for this public school program.

LOL.

You just do not have a basic understanding of math. That is ok. Just funny someone like that talks about TJHSST.

25+% is a huge portion (133/486) coming from a single test prep company given the size of the region.

Happy to help explain basic math to you at any point.

The problem was never the 133 out of 486 coming from one prep test company.
The problem was the 355 out of 486 that came from one raciall group.
If those 133 kids were the only asians at TJ, they wouldn't have changed the admissions process.

It wasn’t a “too many Asians” problem. It was a “not enough URMs, ED, EL, SN” problem.

If they just wanted to cut down on the # of Asian students they wouldn’t have expanded the class size. But they added the seats to ADD the less-represented groups.

This is complete nonsense. The selection process is race blind. The problem was all the students came from just a few wealthy feeder schools where kids could afford test prep. The changes to the process made it so students were the top students from all schools.

The selection process was changed to adjust the racial composition of the school.
It discarded merit for race.

#fakenews

That is false and is illegal. If you can prove it, you can win a massive multimillion-dollar suit against the county!

It's definitely not false.
It's easy to prove, because we have records of the board specifically talking about racial diversity as the primary reason for changing the rules.
People were clutching their pearls because fewer than 10 black kids got admitted for the class of 2024.
It was all about race. It undermines your credibility to say it wasn't driven at least in large part by racial diversity concerns.

How is it illegal to pass a non-discriminatory rule in part due to a racist motive?
How do you win a massive multi-million dollar lawsuit?
Did someone win a massive multi-million dollar lawsuit when the racists created literacy tests?
It took specific legislation outlawing literacy tests to finally get rid of them.
Racially motivated but otherwise racially non-discriminatory are not going to win you a multi-million dollar lawsuit.

In theory the racist motive and the resulting outcome should be illegal under the 14th amendment but if you want to defend racially motivated but facially neutral laws, I suppose you support racially motivated voter ID laws. There is less racist intent behind the voter ID laws in pennsylvania than there was behind the change in the Tj admissions process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Once again, if you can just buy your way into TJ, why aren't there more white kids there?

Because they aren’t as driven by national rankings? Not as interested in STEM or a grind HS experience?

It was well known in my affluent area that you could greatly improve chances of admissions by paying $$$ for prep classes.

It’s a choice that affluent families had.

20 years ago, TJ was majority white. Did they suddenly develop a disdain STEM and competitive high schools over the last 4 years? Or did they get crowded out?

Not so suddenly, but yes, there has been less push for kids to attend ultra competitive environments. The number of white applicants has been declining over the years.

I was a STEM kid at a competitive HS who went on to a T10 program. I intentionally did not encourage my kids to go to TJ.

I haven't looked at all years, but during previous thread I looked at the numbers for class of 2015.
56% of all Asian 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ
99% of them did apply

45% of all white 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ
49% of them did apply


FWIW, 92% of eligible black 8th graders in FCPS that year applied.

Here are the numbers.

Only half of eligible white students applied (vs 99% of Asian students). They don’t want the competitive environment.

I was a STEM kid at a competitive HS who went on to a T10 program. I intentionally did not encourage my kids to go to TJ.

The eligibility criteria were laughably low. I think the GPA requirement was like a 3.0.

There was a time when TJ was majority white, the white kids didn't leave, they got pushed out.
See this chart by the college board showing that 22% of asian kids geta 750 or higher on the math section of the SAT. That number if 4% for whites.
23% of asians get a 1400 SAT score or higher, that number if 7% for whites kids
9% of asians get a 1500 SAT score or higher, than number is 2% for white kids
White kids are clearly trying to get good SAT scores but they cannot seem to do so at the same rate as asians.

The white kids weren't foregoing tjhsst because they didn't want to deal with the competitive environment. They couldn't get in and they knew it so they didn't try.

Yes, as the prep wars escalated, many were pushed out because it just wasn't worth spending $20k on prep to ensure admissions.

$20K on prep? Pfft, this isn't travel ball.

I don't know exactly how much curie is but it looks like a couple thousand a year at most and the test prep is $300.
This is just more racist rationalization trying to explain why asians are outperforming white kids all over the country and at every income level.

For the “signature program” it’s $7k for all 4 semesters. More if you start your kid before 7th grade.

“Curie Learning’s Signature Level 7/8 Program
This program incorporates high-level coursework in math, English, writing, science, and critical thinking, with a focus on preparation for success in high school and college. This program will help students to not only prepare for any advanced institutions such as AOS/AET and TJ, but also to succeed and even thrive in any high school and later in any college/university.

Semester 1: (4 classes/month) $1,095.00 Aug. 25th, 2023 - Dec.19th, 2023
*Semester 2: (7 classes/month) $1,850.00 Jan. 2nd, 2024 - June 23rd, 2024
Additional $300 for extra classes for new students. (Mandatory)
Semester 3 (option 1): (8-11 classes/month) $1,850.00 + $300 (TJ/AOS/AET Extra Prep classes):
Jul.8th, 2024 - Dec 2024
Semester 3 (option 2): (7 classes/month) $1,200.00 Sept 2023 - Dec 2023
Semester 4: (6 classes/month) $1,600.00 Jan 2024-Jun 2024”

So about $280/month?
That's not nothing but it doesn't seem like a rich kid program.

Can't argue with success. Their ad in the paper showed that one-third of TJ's entering class were their customers.

When a huge portion of the admitted class comes from an expensive test prep company then you know something is wrong.


For many years, people have been appalled at how a public school magnet excluded so many groups in the community. The class of 2024 had less than 1% (0.6%) of the students from low-income families. Very little representation from URMs and MSs with many low-income families. TJ was mostly filled with kids from affluent "feeder" middle schools.

FCPS has changed the TJ admissions process multiple times over the years to address systemic inequalities.
https://www.fcag.org/tjadmissions.shtml

Expensive test prep has also been an ongoing issue that exacerbated the lack of representation from certain MSs and groups.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” [school board member] Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

"McLaughlin, like other board members, still worries about Washington’s booming test-prep industry. Modeled on Korean “cram” schools, classes meet after school, on weekends, and throughout the summer. “They’ve become professionals at that process of getting into TJ,” says Josh Silverman, a private tutor in the area."


Paying to have access to previous test questions on an NDA-protected test provides an unfair advantage to wealthy kids in admissions for this public school program.

LOL.

You just do not have a basic understanding of math. That is ok. Just funny someone like that talks about TJHSST.

25+% is a huge portion (133/486) coming from a single test prep company given the size of the region.

Happy to help explain basic math to you at any point.

The problem was never the 133 out of 486 coming from one prep test company.
The problem was the 355 out of 486 that came from one raciall group.
If those 133 kids were the only asians at TJ, they wouldn't have changed the admissions process.

It wasn’t a “too many Asians” problem. It was a “not enough URMs, ED, EL, SN” problem.

If they just wanted to cut down on the # of Asian students they wouldn’t have expanded the class size. But they added the seats to ADD the less-represented groups.

This is complete nonsense. The selection process is race blind. The problem was all the students came from just a few wealthy feeder schools where kids could afford test prep. The changes to the process made it so students were the top students from all schools.

CORRECT!

WRONG!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Once again, if you can just buy your way into TJ, why aren't there more white kids there?

Because they aren’t as driven by national rankings? Not as interested in STEM or a grind HS experience?

It was well known in my affluent area that you could greatly improve chances of admissions by paying $$$ for prep classes.

It’s a choice that affluent families had.

20 years ago, TJ was majority white. Did they suddenly develop a disdain STEM and competitive high schools over the last 4 years? Or did they get crowded out?

Not so suddenly, but yes, there has been less push for kids to attend ultra competitive environments. The number of white applicants has been declining over the years.

I was a STEM kid at a competitive HS who went on to a T10 program. I intentionally did not encourage my kids to go to TJ.

I haven't looked at all years, but during previous thread I looked at the numbers for class of 2015.
56% of all Asian 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ
99% of them did apply

45% of all white 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ
49% of them did apply


FWIW, 92% of eligible black 8th graders in FCPS that year applied.

Here are the numbers.

Only half of eligible white students applied (vs 99% of Asian students). They don’t want the competitive environment.

I was a STEM kid at a competitive HS who went on to a T10 program. I intentionally did not encourage my kids to go to TJ.

The eligibility criteria were laughably low. I think the GPA requirement was like a 3.0.

There was a time when TJ was majority white, the white kids didn't leave, they got pushed out.
See this chart by the college board showing that 22% of asian kids geta 750 or higher on the math section of the SAT. That number if 4% for whites.
23% of asians get a 1400 SAT score or higher, that number if 7% for whites kids
9% of asians get a 1500 SAT score or higher, than number is 2% for white kids
White kids are clearly trying to get good SAT scores but they cannot seem to do so at the same rate as asians.

The white kids weren't foregoing tjhsst because they didn't want to deal with the competitive environment. They couldn't get in and they knew it so they didn't try.

Yes, as the prep wars escalated, many were pushed out because it just wasn't worth spending $20k on prep to ensure admissions.

$20K on prep? Pfft, this isn't travel ball.

I don't know exactly how much curie is but it looks like a couple thousand a year at most and the test prep is $300.
This is just more racist rationalization trying to explain why asians are outperforming white kids all over the country and at every income level.

For the “signature program” it’s $7k for all 4 semesters. More if you start your kid before 7th grade.

“Curie Learning’s Signature Level 7/8 Program
This program incorporates high-level coursework in math, English, writing, science, and critical thinking, with a focus on preparation for success in high school and college. This program will help students to not only prepare for any advanced institutions such as AOS/AET and TJ, but also to succeed and even thrive in any high school and later in any college/university.

Semester 1: (4 classes/month) $1,095.00 Aug. 25th, 2023 - Dec.19th, 2023
*Semester 2: (7 classes/month) $1,850.00 Jan. 2nd, 2024 - June 23rd, 2024
Additional $300 for extra classes for new students. (Mandatory)
Semester 3 (option 1): (8-11 classes/month) $1,850.00 + $300 (TJ/AOS/AET Extra Prep classes):
Jul.8th, 2024 - Dec 2024
Semester 3 (option 2): (7 classes/month) $1,200.00 Sept 2023 - Dec 2023
Semester 4: (6 classes/month) $1,600.00 Jan 2024-Jun 2024”

So about $280/month?
That's not nothing but it doesn't seem like a rich kid program.

Can't argue with success. Their ad in the paper showed that one-third of TJ's entering class were their customers.

When a huge portion of the admitted class comes from an expensive test prep company then you know something is wrong.


For many years, people have been appalled at how a public school magnet excluded so many groups in the community. The class of 2024 had less than 1% (0.6%) of the students from low-income families. Very little representation from URMs and MSs with many low-income families. TJ was mostly filled with kids from affluent "feeder" middle schools.

FCPS has changed the TJ admissions process multiple times over the years to address systemic inequalities.
https://www.fcag.org/tjadmissions.shtml

Expensive test prep has also been an ongoing issue that exacerbated the lack of representation from certain MSs and groups.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” [school board member] Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

"McLaughlin, like other board members, still worries about Washington’s booming test-prep industry. Modeled on Korean “cram” schools, classes meet after school, on weekends, and throughout the summer. “They’ve become professionals at that process of getting into TJ,” says Josh Silverman, a private tutor in the area."


Paying to have access to previous test questions on an NDA-protected test provides an unfair advantage to wealthy kids in admissions for this public school program.

LOL.

You just do not have a basic understanding of math. That is ok. Just funny someone like that talks about TJHSST.

25+% is a huge portion (133/486) coming from a single test prep company given the size of the region.

Happy to help explain basic math to you at any point.

The problem was never the 133 out of 486 coming from one prep test company.
The problem was the 355 out of 486 that came from one raciall group.
If those 133 kids were the only asians at TJ, they wouldn't have changed the admissions process.

It wasn’t a “too many Asians” problem. It was a “not enough URMs, ED, EL, SN” problem.

If they just wanted to cut down on the # of Asian students they wouldn’t have expanded the class size. But they added the seats to ADD the less-represented groups.

This is complete nonsense. The selection process is race blind. The problem was all the students came from just a few wealthy feeder schools where kids could afford test prep. The changes to the process made it so students were the top students from all schools.

Whoever programmed this bot should check its logic - I think it misinterpreted which cues it was supposed to respond to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have to believe that business people running TJ-focused test prep businesses will get their students who take the new math test to describe the questions afterwards, so that next year’s applicants can practice the same or nearly the same math problems at the center. After all, a test prep center which does so will over time have a better and better chance of getting their students admitted to TJ, which would support higher fees and growth in prep class attendance.

This simply is Business 101, so I have to believe it will happen.

This is unethical when the students taking the test have signed a statement promising that they would not discuss the questions. Obviously, this practice is getting into cheating territory, not to mention encouraging children to engage in unethical practices.

If you see this practice as Business 101, I have to wonder what your character is like and what kind of integrity you maintain in other aspects of your life.

I did not say it was good, or ethical, or that I have such a business. But simply watching from the sidelines, there is ample evidence that it will happen.

The school board is confused if they think 100% of students taking the test will keep all questions confidential. The population size taking the test is large enough that some test takers will not comply. Is that ethical ? No, but it WILL happen. Lots of evidence exists already about that outcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That is false and is illegal. If you can prove it, you can win a massive multimillion-dollar suit against the county!

A court already looked at all the evidence and in the end the US Courts determined the board’s move was legal. Some might not like that outcome, but we all live in a nation with laws and courts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought East-Asians have been over-represented since TJ opened in 1985. It's just that there weren't that many Asians in Fairfax back then so TJ was mostly white until maybe 2012 or so.
The class of 2024 looks like East-Asians were definitely over-represented relative to the population in the county.

That claim is inconsistent with math and the overall Census Statistics for the TJ catchment area (which is larger than just Fairfax County).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Once again, if you can just buy your way into TJ, why aren't there more white kids there?

Because they aren’t as driven by national rankings? Not as interested in STEM or a grind HS experience?

It was well known in my affluent area that you could greatly improve chances of admissions by paying $$$ for prep classes.

It’s a choice that affluent families had.

20 years ago, TJ was majority white. Did they suddenly develop a disdain STEM and competitive high schools over the last 4 years? Or did they get crowded out?

Not so suddenly, but yes, there has been less push for kids to attend ultra competitive environments. The number of white applicants has been declining over the years.

I was a STEM kid at a competitive HS who went on to a T10 program. I intentionally did not encourage my kids to go to TJ.

I haven't looked at all years, but during previous thread I looked at the numbers for class of 2015.
56% of all Asian 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ
99% of them did apply

45% of all white 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ
49% of them did apply


FWIW, 92% of eligible black 8th graders in FCPS that year applied.

Here are the numbers.

Only half of eligible white students applied (vs 99% of Asian students). They don’t want the competitive environment.

I was a STEM kid at a competitive HS who went on to a T10 program. I intentionally did not encourage my kids to go to TJ.

The eligibility criteria were laughably low. I think the GPA requirement was like a 3.0.

There was a time when TJ was majority white, the white kids didn't leave, they got pushed out.
See this chart by the college board showing that 22% of asian kids geta 750 or higher on the math section of the SAT. That number if 4% for whites.
23% of asians get a 1400 SAT score or higher, that number if 7% for whites kids
9% of asians get a 1500 SAT score or higher, than number is 2% for white kids
White kids are clearly trying to get good SAT scores but they cannot seem to do so at the same rate as asians.

The white kids weren't foregoing tjhsst because they didn't want to deal with the competitive environment. They couldn't get in and they knew it so they didn't try.

Yes, as the prep wars escalated, many were pushed out because it just wasn't worth spending $20k on prep to ensure admissions.

$20K on prep? Pfft, this isn't travel ball.

I don't know exactly how much curie is but it looks like a couple thousand a year at most and the test prep is $300.
This is just more racist rationalization trying to explain why asians are outperforming white kids all over the country and at every income level.

For the “signature program” it’s $7k for all 4 semesters. More if you start your kid before 7th grade.

“Curie Learning’s Signature Level 7/8 Program
This program incorporates high-level coursework in math, English, writing, science, and critical thinking, with a focus on preparation for success in high school and college. This program will help students to not only prepare for any advanced institutions such as AOS/AET and TJ, but also to succeed and even thrive in any high school and later in any college/university.

Semester 1: (4 classes/month) $1,095.00 Aug. 25th, 2023 - Dec.19th, 2023
*Semester 2: (7 classes/month) $1,850.00 Jan. 2nd, 2024 - June 23rd, 2024
Additional $300 for extra classes for new students. (Mandatory)
Semester 3 (option 1): (8-11 classes/month) $1,850.00 + $300 (TJ/AOS/AET Extra Prep classes):
Jul.8th, 2024 - Dec 2024
Semester 3 (option 2): (7 classes/month) $1,200.00 Sept 2023 - Dec 2023
Semester 4: (6 classes/month) $1,600.00 Jan 2024-Jun 2024”

So about $280/month?
That's not nothing but it doesn't seem like a rich kid program.

Can't argue with success. Their ad in the paper showed that one-third of TJ's entering class were their customers.

When a huge portion of the admitted class comes from an expensive test prep company then you know something is wrong.


For many years, people have been appalled at how a public school magnet excluded so many groups in the community. The class of 2024 had less than 1% (0.6%) of the students from low-income families. Very little representation from URMs and MSs with many low-income families. TJ was mostly filled with kids from affluent "feeder" middle schools.

FCPS has changed the TJ admissions process multiple times over the years to address systemic inequalities.
https://www.fcag.org/tjadmissions.shtml

Expensive test prep has also been an ongoing issue that exacerbated the lack of representation from certain MSs and groups.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” [school board member] Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

"McLaughlin, like other board members, still worries about Washington’s booming test-prep industry. Modeled on Korean “cram” schools, classes meet after school, on weekends, and throughout the summer. “They’ve become professionals at that process of getting into TJ,” says Josh Silverman, a private tutor in the area."


Paying to have access to previous test questions on an NDA-protected test provides an unfair advantage to wealthy kids in admissions for this public school program.

LOL.

You just do not have a basic understanding of math. That is ok. Just funny someone like that talks about TJHSST.

25+% is a huge portion (133/486) coming from a single test prep company given the size of the region.

Happy to help explain basic math to you at any point.

The problem was never the 133 out of 486 coming from one prep test company.
The problem was the 355 out of 486 that came from one raciall group.
If those 133 kids were the only asians at TJ, they wouldn't have changed the admissions process.

It wasn’t a “too many Asians” problem. It was a “not enough URMs, ED, EL, SN” problem.

If they just wanted to cut down on the # of Asian students they wouldn’t have expanded the class size. But they added the seats to ADD the less-represented groups.

This is complete nonsense. The selection process is race blind. The problem was all the students came from just a few wealthy feeder schools where kids could afford test prep. The changes to the process made it so students were the top students from all schools.

Spot on summary!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is false and is illegal. If you can prove it, you can win a massive multimillion-dollar suit against the county!

A court already looked at all the evidence and in the end the US Courts determined the board’s move was legal. Some might not like that outcome, but we all live in a nation with laws and
courts.

That is true, but some are committed to spreading a false narratigve because they prefer a system that is easy to game.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought East-Asians have been over-represented since TJ opened in 1985. It's just that there weren't that many Asians in Fairfax back then so TJ was mostly white until maybe 2012 or so.
The class of 2024 looks like East-Asians were definitely over-represented relative to the population in the county.

That claim is inconsistent with math and the overall Census Statistics for the TJ catchment area (which is larger than just Fairfax County).

Yeah but Fairfax County (at 20%) has the same or more asians that Loudon, Falls Church City, Prince William County or Arlington. And even a brief perusal of any of the TJ yearbooks shows more than 20% of the students are east asian. This is a strange claim that ewast asians are under-represented at TJ. Indians might be MORE over-represented than east asians but you're not going to convince east asians that merit doesn't matter just because indians are outperforming them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is false and is illegal. If you can prove it, you can win a massive multimillion-dollar suit against the county!

A court already looked at all the evidence and in the end the US Courts determined the board’s move was legal. Some might not like that outcome, but we all live in a nation with laws and
courts.

That is true, but some are committed to spreading a false narratigve because they prefer a system that is easy to game.

Sure if hard work, sacrifice and studying are gaming the system.
At some point the "diversity first" crowd realized that they could never achieve parity because one group studied harder than other groups and started equating studying with cheating.
This is how civilizations are lost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is false and is illegal. If you can prove it, you can win a massive multimillion-dollar suit against the county!

A court already looked at all the evidence and in the end the US Courts determined the board’s move was legal. Some might not like that outcome, but we all live in a nation with laws and
courts.

That is true, but some are committed to spreading a false narratigve because they prefer a system that is easy to game.

Sure if hard work, sacrifice and studying are gaming the system.
At some point the "diversity first" crowd realized that they could never achieve parity because one group studied harder than other groups and started equating studying with cheating.
This is how civilizations are lost.

That's not what they were saying. The problem is it wasn't about hard work but being wealthy enough to buy access to the entry exam.