Boundary Review Meetings

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Did anyone attend the meeting with Meren at Wolftrap last night regarding the Northeast Town of Vienna potential changes?

Bump. Interested in hearing how this meeting went as well.

I did. Not much other than people voicing their concerns. Her saying Dr. Reid will do what she pleases. People stated that Dr Reid indicated with the NE part of TOv moving back to Madison some of wolftrap will have to stay Marshall. There was mention of westbriar TOV students moving out of westbriar to another elementary.

Thanks. I wonder if the reference wasn’t to possibly assigning the Westbriar attendance island to another school. The Westbriar kids in the NE part of the TOV live near Westbriar.

They have treated Marshall like crap throughout this entire boundary process but guess when you’re preoccupied with a new western HS you can’t do things carefully.

What a joke. They have not based any decision making on that school. If they had, they would have delayed comprehensive boundary study. Just like they pretended it was okay to delay Coates for a year.

Point is they have too many things going on and they aren’t handling any of them well.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:And those so worried about Westfield losing too many should look at all the new construction close to Westfield.

40 are listed today of new construction--and more to come.

There's more construction taking place and in the pipeline zoned to Marshall and McLean than Westfield.

Maybe, send some to that extra space at Langley and Madison.

Scenario 4 proposes to do just that. The question is why they aren't proposing to send anyone to Herndon, which has more surplus capacity than either Langley or Madison, before they splurge on a new western HS.

The only students close enough to send to Herndon are Forestville, and Langley doesn't need relief (yet). There is no way to shift enough kids from Centreville, Chantilly, and Westfield to fill those seats at Herndon. Centreville has 22 trailers and modulars, Chantilly has 23, and Westfield has 13. This area has needed a new school for years. Herndon couldn't fill the need even if transportation there wasn't an issue.

The PP you are responding to wants to send Coates and McNair to Herndon.

And like I said, that wouldn't come close to solving the overcrowding in the western side of the county. The new HS does a much better job of addressing the issue for multiple school pyramids, with the bonus affect of reducing commutes and associated transportation costs for many.

+1. And, not only that, but this would overcrowd Herndon--but, I guess that is the PP's goal.

Let's look at October 2025 enrollment at western schools.

Schools with extra seats are Herndon (683), South Lakes (102), and Westfield (60). Total available capacity is 845 seats.

Schools over capacity are Chantilly (262), Oakton (65), and Centreville (56). Total overcrowding is 383 seats.

But rather than available of those 845 seats (and this doesn't include the surplus capacity at Madison, which could help with overcrowding at Oakton), we're planning on a new "2000+" school that will add to the surplus capacity in western Fairfax.

I mean, go ahead and say that some of these schools are too big or too far away, but taxpayers footed the bill to expand a number of them and it's not like FCPS has taken any consistent position over the years as to how big is "too" big or how far is "too far" for kids to travel to a HS.

The bottom line remains that the new western HS is addressing a want, not a need (and certainly not one that FCPS has previously or clearly defined as a "need"). And that want has more to do with avoiding certain schools than anything else.

And, your comment that there are "only"383 students overcrowding the schools neglects to mention that means "over capacity" even with a total of 58 modular and temporary classrooms.
I don't know how they figure that--but, to me, assuming 20 kids per temp classroom, that would bring the number to an additional 1160. And, that is likely a modest estimate. So, add that to the 383, and I think most people would agree that we need a new school to resolve this problem.

It is not "best practice" to populate a school at 100% capacity. I think I read that 85-90% is considered best.

Trailers are excluded because n determining capacity and I don’t think you can fairly exclude modular seats in one part of the county near KAA when assessing capacity and then include them everywhere else.

I’ve heard School Board members say in the past anything up to 110% capacity was treated as acceptable and not requiring any response by FCPS so I don’t know where you got the “85-90% is best” idea. But people toss out a lot of short-lived principles to justify what they want, whether it was moving kids out of Westfield in 2008 because it was allegedly “too big,” justifying the later expansion of West Potomac to 3000 seats, or rationalizing the purchase of KAA when there are over 800 available seats now in the western high schools.

When you include the modular capacity in the school capacity like you are, you are ignoring the fact that while a modular adds desks it does not add any new common area space, hallway space, cafeteria space, etc. These schools are bursting at the seams during class changes. The goal should be to get rid of as many of these temporary trailers as possible, not to replace them with new ones because they've been around so long they are starting to fall apart.

Modulars are not trailers, any more than the two extra buildings at KAA are trailers, and FCPS has long included modular seats when determining capacity. And, they do effectively add hallway space.

If you are going to make the argument they should be excluded then you have to be consistent across the entire county.

You are arguing, yet again, for preferential treatment of one part of the county when FCPS’s own capacity determinations indicate there are more than enough surplus seats at some schools in western Fairfax to accommodate current overcrowding (and that overcrowding could subside on its own given the demographic trends) at some others.

Oh, please. They are overcrowded even with the modulars and trailers. And, since you don't want to count modulars, there are 36 trailers And, two free standing, constructed buildings are NOT the same as modulars.

The issue isn’t whether a number of these schools are still overcrowded but instead whether that could have been addressed more efficiently by taking capacity of the surplus capacity available at other schools in western Fairfax.

Instead, other renovations will be deferred for years so you can avoid schools you don’t want your kids to attend.

Until you tell us what renovations have been deferred I'm going to call out your BS on this one. You've said before that anything in the CIP 5 years out is just a placeholder when you claimed the western HS was never going to be built anyway. Unless they defer a project that was slated to start sooner (other than Centreville, which had permit issues before and can now be scaled back and possibly start sooner since it will be easier to get the necessary permit approved), you are just making things up. For all you know they had enough room in the funds still left from the last bond to cover the new high school, and the new bond will take effect in time for them to draw from it for all the future planned work. Stop speculating and come at us with facts next time.

Happy to come back after the next CIP comes out to refute your ridiculous suggestion that they had a large reserve of funds lying around to close on the expensive acquisition of a school that they had no plan to build prior to 2034 (and that’s generous since more likely any start date would have just been pushed out again).

It will be interesting for sure. This school purchase closed over the summer, so the funds must have come from the old bond funds since the new one didn't go up for a vote until last week. All of the near term upcoming projects can be paid out of the newly passed bond. The only things I could see being delayed would be 5+ years out, which as you said are just placeholders and don't really count. By then we'll have another new bond to draw from - so until something is actually delayed from this purchase (other than us saving money on the Centreville expansion) I don't see the downside.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:And those so worried about Westfield losing too many should look at all the new construction close to Westfield.

40 are listed today of new construction--and more to come.

There's more construction taking place and in the pipeline zoned to Marshall and McLean than Westfield.

Maybe, send some to that extra space at Langley and Madison.

Scenario 4 proposes to do just that. The question is why they aren't proposing to send anyone to Herndon, which has more surplus capacity than either Langley or Madison, before they splurge on a new western HS.

The only students close enough to send to Herndon are Forestville, and Langley doesn't need relief (yet). There is no way to shift enough kids from Centreville, Chantilly, and Westfield to fill those seats at Herndon. Centreville has 22 trailers and modulars, Chantilly has 23, and Westfield has 13. This area has needed a new school for years. Herndon couldn't fill the need even if transportation there wasn't an issue.

The PP you are responding to wants to send Coates and McNair to Herndon.

And like I said, that wouldn't come close to solving the overcrowding in the western side of the county. The new HS does a much better job of addressing the issue for multiple school pyramids, with the bonus affect of reducing commutes and associated transportation costs for many.

+1. And, not only that, but this would overcrowd Herndon--but, I guess that is the PP's goal.

Let's look at October 2025 enrollment at western schools.

Schools with extra seats are Herndon (683), South Lakes (102), and Westfield (60). Total available capacity is 845 seats.

Schools over capacity are Chantilly (262), Oakton (65), and Centreville (56). Total overcrowding is 383 seats.

But rather than available of those 845 seats (and this doesn't include the surplus capacity at Madison, which could help with overcrowding at Oakton), we're planning on a new "2000+" school that will add to the surplus capacity in western Fairfax.

I mean, go ahead and say that some of these schools are too big or too far away, but taxpayers footed the bill to expand a number of them and it's not like FCPS has taken any consistent position over the years as to how big is "too" big or how far is "too far" for kids to travel to a HS.

The bottom line remains that the new western HS is addressing a want, not a need (and certainly not one that FCPS has previously or clearly defined as a "need"). And that want has more to do with avoiding certain schools than anything else.

And, your comment that there are "only"383 students overcrowding the schools neglects to mention that means "over capacity" even with a total of 58 modular and temporary classrooms.
I don't know how they figure that--but, to me, assuming 20 kids per temp classroom, that would bring the number to an additional 1160. And, that is likely a modest estimate. So, add that to the 383, and I think most people would agree that we need a new school to resolve this problem.

It is not "best practice" to populate a school at 100% capacity. I think I read that 85-90% is considered best.

Trailers are excluded because n determining capacity and I don’t think you can fairly exclude modular seats in one part of the county near KAA when assessing capacity and then include them everywhere else.

I’ve heard School Board members say in the past anything up to 110% capacity was treated as acceptable and not requiring any response by FCPS so I don’t know where you got the “85-90% is best” idea. But people toss out a lot of short-lived principles to justify what they want, whether it was moving kids out of Westfield in 2008 because it was allegedly “too big,” justifying the later expansion of West Potomac to 3000 seats, or rationalizing the purchase of KAA when there are over 800 available seats now in the western high schools.

When you include the modular capacity in the school capacity like you are, you are ignoring the fact that while a modular adds desks it does not add any new common area space, hallway space, cafeteria space, etc. These schools are bursting at the seams during class changes. The goal should be to get rid of as many of these temporary trailers as possible, not to replace them with new ones because they've been around so long they are starting to fall apart.

Modulars are not trailers, any more than the two extra buildings at KAA are trailers, and FCPS has long included modular seats when determining capacity. And, they do effectively add hallway space.

If you are going to make the argument they should be excluded then you have to be consistent across the entire county.

You are arguing, yet again, for preferential treatment of one part of the county when FCPS’s own capacity determinations indicate there are more than enough surplus seats at some schools in western Fairfax to accommodate current overcrowding (and that overcrowding could subside on its own given the demographic trends) at some others.

Oh, please. They are overcrowded even with the modulars and trailers. And, since you don't want to count modulars, there are 36 trailers And, two free standing, constructed buildings are NOT the same as modulars.

The issue isn’t whether a number of these schools are still overcrowded but instead whether that could have been addressed more efficiently by taking capacity of the surplus capacity available at other schools in western Fairfax.

Instead, other renovations will be deferred for years so you can avoid schools you don’t want your kids to attend.

Until you tell us what renovations have been deferred I'm going to call out your BS on this one. You've said before that anything in the CIP 5 years out is just a placeholder when you claimed the western HS was never going to be built anyway. Unless they defer a project that was slated to start sooner (other than Centreville, which had permit issues before and can now be scaled back and possibly start sooner since it will be easier to get the necessary permit approved), you are just making things up. For all you know they had enough room in the funds still left from the last bond to cover the new high school, and the new bond will take effect in time for them to draw from it for all the future planned work. Stop speculating and come at us with facts next time.

Happy to come back after the next CIP comes out to refute your ridiculous suggestion that they had a large reserve of funds lying around to close on the expensive acquisition of a school that they had no plan to build prior to 2034 (and that’s generous since more likely any start date would have just been pushed out again).

It will be interesting for sure. This school purchase closed over the summer, so the funds must have come from the old bond funds since the new one didn't go up for a vote until last week. All of the near term upcoming projects can be paid out of the newly passed bond. The only things I could see being delayed would be 5+ years out, which as you said are just placeholders and don't really count. By then we'll have another new bond to draw from - so until something is actually delayed from this purchase (other than us saving money on the Centreville expansion) I don't see the downside.

If they publish a "Capital Construction Cash Flow FY 2027-31" in the next CIP, it should be easy to see what is getting deferred. It doesn't look like KAA was funded with money previously earmaked for the CVHS project. The CVHS construction costs primarily are intended to come from the bond approved this month and perhaps a 2027 bond as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did anyone attend the meeting with Meren at Wolftrap last night regarding the Northeast Town of Vienna potential changes?

Bump. Interested in hearing how this meeting went as well.

I did. Not much other than people voicing their concerns. Her saying Dr. Reid will do what she pleases. People stated that Dr Reid indicated with the NE part of TOv moving back to Madison some of wolftrap will have to stay Marshall. There was mention of westbriar TOV students moving out of westbriar to another elementary.

Thanks. I wonder if the reference wasn’t to possibly assigning the Westbriar attendance island to another school. The Westbriar kids in the NE part of the TOV live near Westbriar.

They have treated Marshall like crap throughout this entire boundary process but guess when you’re preoccupied with a new western HS you can’t do things carefully.

Nobody seemed concerned with the attendance island. I may have missed that part of the meeting though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did anyone attend the meeting with Meren at Wolftrap last night regarding the Northeast Town of Vienna potential changes?

Bump. Interested in hearing how this meeting went as well.

I did. Not much other than people voicing their concerns. Her saying Dr. Reid will do what she pleases. People stated that Dr Reid indicated with the NE part of TOv moving back to Madison some of wolftrap will have to stay Marshall. There was mention of westbriar TOV students moving out of westbriar to another elementary.

Thanks. I wonder if the reference wasn’t to possibly assigning the Westbriar attendance island to another school. The Westbriar kids in the NE part of the TOV live near Westbriar.

They have treated Marshall like crap throughout this entire boundary process but guess when you’re preoccupied with a new western HS you can’t do things carefully.

Nobody seemed concerned with the attendance island. I may have missed that part of the meeting though.

Hopefully they just key the sizable (40%) part of Wolftrap that goes to Marshall with Marshall. That will avoid the attendance island and keep Marshall well-balanced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did anyone attend the meeting with Meren at Wolftrap last night regarding the Northeast Town of Vienna potential changes?

Bump. Interested in hearing how this meeting went as well.

I did. Not much other than people voicing their concerns. Her saying Dr. Reid will do what she pleases. People stated that Dr Reid indicated with the NE part of TOv moving back to Madison some of wolftrap will have to stay Marshall. There was mention of westbriar TOV students moving out of westbriar to another elementary.

Thanks. I wonder if the reference wasn’t to possibly assigning the Westbriar attendance island to another school. The Westbriar kids in the NE part of the TOV live near Westbriar.

They have treated Marshall like crap throughout this entire boundary process but guess when you’re preoccupied with a new western HS you can’t do things carefully.

Nobody seemed concerned with the attendance island. I may have missed that part of the meeting though.

Hopefully they just key the sizable (40%) part of Wolftrap that goes to Marshall with Marshall. That will avoid the attendance island and keep Marshall well-balanced.

That still leaves an attendance island at Westbriar. They asked to move to closer Colvin Run and no surprise who blocked that and why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did anyone attend the meeting with Meren at Wolftrap last night regarding the Northeast Town of Vienna potential changes?

Bump. Interested in hearing how this meeting went as well.

I did. Not much other than people voicing their concerns. Her saying Dr. Reid will do what she pleases. People stated that Dr Reid indicated with the NE part of TOv moving back to Madison some of wolftrap will have to stay Marshall. There was mention of westbriar TOV students moving out of westbriar to another elementary.

Thanks. I wonder if the reference wasn’t to possibly assigning the Westbriar attendance island to another school. The Westbriar kids in the NE part of the TOV live near Westbriar.

They have treated Marshall like crap throughout this entire boundary process but guess when you’re preoccupied with a new western HS you can’t do things carefully.

Nobody seemed concerned with the attendance island. I may have missed that part of the meeting though.

Hopefully they just key the sizable (40%) part of Wolftrap that goes to Marshall with Marshall. That will avoid the attendance island and keep Marshall well-balanced.

That still leaves an attendance island at Westbriar. They asked to move to closer Colvin Run and no surprise who blocked that and why.

Grumble grumble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did anyone attend the meeting with Meren at Wolftrap last night regarding the Northeast Town of Vienna potential changes?

Bump. Interested in hearing how this meeting went as well.

I did. Not much other than people voicing their concerns. Her saying Dr. Reid will do what she pleases. People stated that Dr Reid indicated with the NE part of TOv moving back to Madison some of wolftrap will have to stay Marshall. There was mention of westbriar TOV students moving out of westbriar to another elementary.

Thanks. I wonder if the reference wasn’t to possibly assigning the Westbriar attendance island to another school. The Westbriar kids in the NE part of the TOV live near Westbriar.

They have treated Marshall like crap throughout this entire boundary process but guess when you’re preoccupied with a new western HS you can’t do things carefully.

Wonder if Wolftrap could handle that neighborhood?


Nobody seemed concerned with the attendance island. I may have missed that part of the meeting though.

Hopefully they just key the sizable (40%) part of Wolftrap that goes to Marshall with Marshall. That will avoid the attendance island and keep Marshall well-balanced.

That still leaves an attendance island at Westbriar. They asked to move to closer Colvin Run and no surprise who blocked that and why.

Grumble grumble.

[Anonymous]

The School Board should shift its priorities, and yes, I have communicated my feelings to my School Board members.

1) KAA boundaries take priority. This would address Coates and Chantilly.

Coates is included in the move to KAA, thus is the time to shift the Coates kids to different ES to help relieve Coates, which will influence needs for MS and HS.

Chantilly is scheduled to lose Oak Hill students, which would deal with the over-crowding at Chantilly.

Shifting the ES to KAA will start the shifts needed in the Western part of the County.

2) Move Centerville students and other Chantilly if needed.

The KAA moves will open spaces in Westfield, that can be backfilled by Centerville and Chantilly students.

3) Look at the other overcrowded schools. WSHS is one of those schools, I am not sure about other ES/MS/HS issues. I have heard the most about Chantilly, Centerville, and WSHS.

It makes no sense to redraw boundaries in January only to do it again in June.

[Anonymous]

It makes no sense to redraw boundaries in January only to do it again in June.

This. The operative word is "sense."

The most important change needed right now appears to be in leadership.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The School Board should shift its priorities, and yes, I have communicated my feelings to my School Board members.

1) KAA boundaries take priority. This would address Coates and Chantilly.

Coates is included in the move to KAA, thus is the time to shift the Coates kids to different ES to help relieve Coates, which will influence needs for MS and HS.

Chantilly is scheduled to lose Oak Hill students, which would deal with the over-crowding at Chantilly.

Shifting the ES to KAA will start the shifts needed in the Western part of the County.

2) Move Centerville students and other Chantilly if needed.

The KAA moves will open spaces in Westfield, that can be backfilled by Centerville and Chantilly students.

3) Look at the other overcrowded schools. WSHS is one of those schools, I am not sure about other ES/MS/HS issues. I have heard the most about Chantilly, Centerville, and WSHS.

It makes no sense to redraw boundaries in January only to do it again in June.

Most of the WSHS feeder elementary schools are dropping enrollment by a significant amount.

The largest WSHS pyramid class is graduating this year. After that, the classes continue to get smaller. There is a huge drop, well over a hundred kids when class of 2026 graduates. After that, the classes are steadily replaced with smaller classes as each one graduates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It makes no sense to redraw boundaries in January only to do it again in June.

This. The operative word is "sense."

The most important change needed right now appears to be in leadership.

Replacing Reid makes sense but the rot started with Karl Frisch and Rachna Sizemore-Heizer. They set in motion this debacle. Reid just made things worse. Total incompetence on all their parts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It makes no sense to redraw boundaries in January only to do it again in June.

This. The operative word is "sense."

The most important change needed right now appears to be in leadership.

Replacing Reid makes sense but the rot started with Karl Frisch and Rachna Sizemore-Heizer. They set in motion this debacle. Reid just made things worse. Total incompetence on all their parts.

Don't forget the leader of this debacle...Sandy Anderson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The School Board should shift its priorities, and yes, I have communicated my feelings to my School Board members.

1) KAA boundaries take priority. This would address Coates and Chantilly.

Coates is included in the move to KAA, thus is the time to shift the Coates kids to different ES to help relieve Coates, which will influence needs for MS and HS.

Chantilly is scheduled to lose Oak Hill students, which would deal with the over-crowding at Chantilly.

Shifting the ES to KAA will start the shifts needed in the Western part of the County.

2) Move Centerville students and other Chantilly if needed.

The KAA moves will open spaces in Westfield, that can be backfilled by Centerville and Chantilly students.

3) Look at the other overcrowded schools. WSHS is one of those schools, I am not sure about other ES/MS/HS issues. I have heard the most about Chantilly, Centerville, and WSHS.

It makes no sense to redraw boundaries in January only to do it again in June.

Most of the WSHS feeder elementary schools are dropping enrollment by a significant amount.

The largest WSHS pyramid class is graduating this year. After that, the classes continue to get smaller. There is a huge drop, well over a hundred kids when class of 2026 graduates. After that, the classes are steadily replaced with smaller classes as each one graduates.

One would hope that the School Board takes that into consideration. I have no clue about construction and all of that fun stuff. I also know that there are plenty of parents that don't want to move and that position doesn't shift when the school is overcrowded. We are in the Western area and are going to be impacted by the new school in some way. The passionate discussion as to why people should stay at their base or move or other people should move is intense. None of the Chantilly families I know want to move or have their kids friends move even though the school is overcrowded. There is an Oakton subset that is going all out to stay, much to the annoyance of their neighbors who want to move. There are SLHS families who don't want to move. Lots of folks are attached to their schools.

In the case of schools that are overcrowded, and appear to stay overcrowded, someone needs to move and that leads to hurt feelings and loud voices.

[Anonymous]

It leads to hurt feelings and loud voices in part because FCPS does an atrocious job of facilities planning and managing its capital resources.