J.K. Rowling’s post on trans-identity and modern misogyny

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And today The Sun posts an interview with her abuser showing zero remorse at all. Because women are still, perpetually at the bottom of the totem pole.

You can be abused and also still hold harmful opinions and use your platform to spread them. She is both. She doesn’t get a pass on harming transgender people now because she survived DV.

I don't understand. She is harming transgender people by saying XX women are not the same as XY trans women biologically?
How can that not be true?

That is not the extent of her comments

It kind of seems like it is.

Women’s issues are not trans women’s issues. Both groups of people have issues, but they aren’t the same.

It doesn’t seem like it to you because you are only looking at her blog post. She has made transphobic comments for a LONG time, this isn’t new, and because I know trans people I deeply care about I know that and won’t excuse her for it.

DP. She said she would freaking march alongside Trans people for their rights. She is NOT transphobic. You’re twisting her thoughts. And btw, don’t forget she is allowed to think differently than you are on this. This is ok.

Hey look, I googled for you and here’s a handy write up of her history with trans issues.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vogue.com/article/jk-rowling-transphobic-tweets/amp

Still not seeing the issue. She says “sex is real”. That’s the most transphobic thing you can come up with?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting how this debate is only about trans women. Someone posted earlier upthread that no one cares about trans men. It all makes sense in terms of men "invading" a female space - even when they present as women, men still feel they have the right to define women in terms that best suit their agenda. We'd welcome you to the sisterhood with open arms if you weren't so intent on redefining an already occupied space.
Get your own space!

Basic TERFing right here.

No pp has a good point. Trans men seem totally fine with either, 1) being in a state of transition and being known as a Trans man, 2) using their female anatomy (menstruating/pregnancy) while presenting as a man and functioning as a trans man or 3) being fully transitioned and just being a man

Women are raised and conditioned to not intrusively take over spaces so I think this is women doing what they’re socialize to do and easing into being men. And trans women do what men do, intrusively enter and take over the space without carrying much about what was happening before they got there.

Just stop.

How many trans people do you know or interact with on a regular basis?

This is exactly the kind of militant response that is wrong here. People can support ending discrimination of trans people and advocate for them without having to completely agree with you that they are the same as other women. They are not. The experience of a trans woman is not the same as those of us who were born genetically female. It. just. isn't. Just because I acknowledge these difference does not mean I do not have compassion or that I do not want trans people to be accepted and safe and loved.

You don't get to tell us to "just stop". Stop with your thought policing. You hurt the cause, not help, when you just try to shut down discussion.

It was a vile comment - not sure why you are trying to defend it.

And go re-read it - PP isn't advocating for trans people in any way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And today The Sun posts an interview with her abuser showing zero remorse at all. Because women are still, perpetually at the bottom of the totem pole.

You can be abused and also still hold harmful opinions and use your platform to spread them. She is both. She doesn’t get a pass on harming transgender people now because she survived DV.

I don't understand. She is harming transgender people by saying XX women are not the same as XY trans women biologically?
How can that not be true?

That is not the extent of her comments

It kind of seems like it is.

Women’s issues are not trans women’s issues. Both groups of people have issues, but they aren’t the same.

It doesn’t seem like it to you because you are only looking at her blog post. She has made transphobic comments for a LONG time, this isn’t new, and because I know trans people I deeply care about I know that and won’t excuse her for it.

DP. She said she would freaking march alongside Trans people for their rights. She is NOT transphobic. You’re twisting her thoughts. And btw, don’t forget she is allowed to think differently than you are on this. This is ok.

Hey look, I googled for you and here’s a handy write up of her history with trans issues.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vogue.com/article/jk-rowling-transphobic-tweets/amp

Still not seeing the issue. She says “sex is real”. That’s the most transphobic thing you can come up with?

No, her saying that “women” is the only word for “people who menstruate” was worse but you asked for more proof of how this is a pattern, not which comments were worst.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And today The Sun posts an interview with her abuser showing zero remorse at all. Because women are still, perpetually at the bottom of the totem pole.

You can be abused and also still hold harmful opinions and use your platform to spread them. She is both. She doesn’t get a pass on harming transgender people now because she survived DV.

I don't understand. She is harming transgender people by saying XX women are not the same as XY trans women biologically?
How can that not be true?

That is not the extent of her comments

It kind of seems like it is.

Women’s issues are not trans women’s issues. Both groups of people have issues, but they aren’t the same.

It doesn’t seem like it to you because you are only looking at her blog post. She has made transphobic comments for a LONG time, this isn’t new, and because I know trans people I deeply care about I know that and won’t excuse her for it.

DP. She said she would freaking march alongside Trans people for their rights. She is NOT transphobic. You’re twisting her thoughts. And btw, don’t forget she is allowed to think differently than you are on this. This is ok.

We’ve already explained she can think whatever she wants. It’s disgusting to use her massive platform in PRIDE month to voice these opinions about trans women. You think it’s coincidence she chose to center her white cis voice in *this* month? why does the world need to hear over and over again that JK Rowling doesn’t consider trans women real women? She seems insistent everyone knows how much she thinks this and like... nobody even asked her. She’s a children’s book author with massive cultural impact who now uses that platform to voice harmful opinions.

It's disgusting to see her use her platform for harm instead of good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting how this debate is only about trans women. Someone posted earlier upthread that no one cares about trans men. It all makes sense in terms of men "invading" a female space - even when they present as women, men still feel they have the right to define women in terms that best suit their agenda. We'd welcome you to the sisterhood with open arms if you weren't so intent on redefining an already occupied space.
Get your own space!

Basic TERFing right here.

No pp has a good point. Trans men seem totally fine with either, 1) being in a state of transition and being known as a Trans man, 2) using their female anatomy (menstruating/pregnancy) while presenting as a man and functioning as a trans man or 3) being fully transitioned and just being a man

Women are raised and conditioned to not intrusively take over spaces so I think this is women doing what they’re socialize to do and easing into being men. And trans women do what men do, intrusively enter and take over the space without carrying much about what was happening before they got there.

Just stop.

How many trans people do you know or interact with on a regular basis?

This is exactly the kind of militant response that is wrong here. People can support ending discrimination of trans people and advocate for them without having to completely agree with you that they are the same as other women. They are not. The experience of a trans woman is not the same as those of us who were born genetically female. It. just. isn't. Just because I acknowledge these difference does not mean I do not have compassion or that I do not want trans people to be accepted and safe and loved.

You don't get to tell us to "just stop". Stop with your thought policing. You hurt the cause, not help, when you just try to shut down discussion.

It was a vile comment - not sure why you are trying to defend it.

And go re-read it - PP isn't advocating for trans people in any way.

I'm the person who made the vile comment. I don't understand how it was vile. I extrapolated how boys and girls are conditioned and raised in this country to how, respectively, trans men and trans women have tried to integrate themselves post transition. It really isn't a comment about trans people at all, its a comment about how we raise boys and how we raise girls and how those differences manifest in trans people who, uniquely, travel from one set of norms and expectations to the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And today The Sun posts an interview with her abuser showing zero remorse at all. Because women are still, perpetually at the bottom of the totem pole.

You can be abused and also still hold harmful opinions and use your platform to spread them. She is both. She doesn’t get a pass on harming transgender people now because she survived DV.

I don't understand. She is harming transgender people by saying XX women are not the same as XY trans women biologically?
How can that not be true?

That is not the extent of her comments

It kind of seems like it is.

Women’s issues are not trans women’s issues. Both groups of people have issues, but they aren’t the same.

It doesn’t seem like it to you because you are only looking at her blog post. She has made transphobic comments for a LONG time, this isn’t new, and because I know trans people I deeply care about I know that and won’t excuse her for it.

DP. She said she would freaking march alongside Trans people for their rights. She is NOT transphobic. You’re twisting her thoughts. And btw, don’t forget she is allowed to think differently than you are on this. This is ok.

Hey look, I googled for you and here’s a handy write up of her history with trans issues.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vogue.com/article/jk-rowling-transphobic-tweets/amp

Still not seeing the issue. She says “sex is real”. That’s the most transphobic thing you can come up with?

No, her saying that “women” is the only word for “people who menstruate” was worse but you asked for more proof of how this is a pattern, not which comments were worst.

But this is mad. The only people who menstruate ARE women. Not all women menstruate, but certainly no one who is not a woman menstruates.

[Anonymous]

Is it less offensive if I say only females menstruate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is it less offensive if I say only females menstruate?

No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And today The Sun posts an interview with her abuser showing zero remorse at all. Because women are still, perpetually at the bottom of the totem pole.

You can be abused and also still hold harmful opinions and use your platform to spread them. She is both. She doesn’t get a pass on harming transgender people now because she survived DV.

I don't understand. She is harming transgender people by saying XX women are not the same as XY trans women biologically?
How can that not be true?

That is not the extent of her comments

It kind of seems like it is.

Women’s issues are not trans women’s issues. Both groups of people have issues, but they aren’t the same.

It doesn’t seem like it to you because you are only looking at her blog post. She has made transphobic comments for a LONG time, this isn’t new, and because I know trans people I deeply care about I know that and won’t excuse her for it.

DP. She said she would freaking march alongside Trans people for their rights. She is NOT transphobic. You’re twisting her thoughts. And btw, don’t forget she is allowed to think differently than you are on this. This is ok.

Hey look, I googled for you and here’s a handy write up of her history with trans issues.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vogue.com/article/jk-rowling-transphobic-tweets/amp

Still not seeing the issue. She says “sex is real”. That’s the most transphobic thing you can come up with?

No, her saying that “women” is the only word for “people who menstruate” was worse but you asked for more proof of how this is a pattern, not which comments were worst.

People who menstruate are biologically female and oppressed throughout the world BECAUSE of that menstruation and BECAUSE of they are females. Allowing language to not address this will result in the continued and SYSTEMIC oppression of women around the world. Just because THIS COUNTRY is more progressive (and lets be honest, women's rights are under attack here in serious ways as well) doesn't mean that this is not a problem all over the world needing SPECIFIC language and advocacy to address.

As I said earlier in this thread, GIRLS in africa frequently start getting 25% less education than their male counterparts when they start getting their period because they aren't allowed to come to school. That is systemic oppression of WOMEN and needs to be talked about for what it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting how this debate is only about trans women. Someone posted earlier upthread that no one cares about trans men. It all makes sense in terms of men "invading" a female space - even when they present as women, men still feel they have the right to define women in terms that best suit their agenda. We'd welcome you to the sisterhood with open arms if you weren't so intent on redefining an already occupied space.
Get your own space!

Basic TERFing right here.

Except that it’s not...

Women have had to fight so hard for resources and safe spaces, it is disconcerting to see them disintegrating under the banner of trans inclusion.

Even on this thread it’s now considered exclusionary to say women menstruate or that women bear children and go through menopause. Historically, much of the fight for women’s rights have included oppression directly related to female biological functions. Girls not being able to attend school because of their periods. Child marriage and forced or coerced pregnancy. Maternity care. Sexual violence and rape and the risk of pregnancy. All of these issues are not inclusive of trans women but they very relevant to biological women. Recognizing that reality is not anti-trans. It’s actually the height of misogyny to expect biological women to give up all the progress we’ve made and the safe spaces we’ve created because it might not be inclusive enough or relevant to a trans woman’s experience.

It’s TERF 101. No one is asking women to “give up” anything.

It's the bigoted, woman-hater again with their TERFing. Get out of your mom's basement, and ya know, get a job and VOTE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is just so indicative of the liberal circular firing squad.

I am a very liberal very pro LGBTQ advocate.

Do I believe in trans rights to call themselves women/men? Yes.

Do I believe in their right to transition and for advocating for health care coverage for those procedures? Yes.

Do I believe in advocating for awareness and help for children and teens struggling with their gender? Yes.

Do I believe in advocating for anti discrimination laws to protect all LGLBTQ people from harm? Yes.

Do I believe in people being able to use whatever bathroom they want? Yes (I know I differ from JKR here).

Will I happily use whatever pronouns a person wants me to use? Yes.

Do I believe that we should stop using specifically gendered language to discuss gendered political issues that have oppressed women for centuries? No.

Do I believe there should be some acknowledgement of the biological differences that result from the biological sex hormones you were born with when it comes to sports? Yes.

Do I think there should be some safe spaces that women who have been violently victimized by men and who are uncomfortable with women in transition should be able to occupy if they would like as victims? Yes.

But you go to war against people like me, an ally who you would rather call a bigot, because of disagreements in nuance.

And this, in a nutshell, is why we lose elections and Trump gets elected. If you disagree by 10 degrees, you are the enemy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it less offensive if I say only females menstruate?

No.

What a joke. What happened to “trans women are biologically male but identify as female”?

If there’s no such thing as biology then how can someone be trans?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it less offensive if I say only females menstruate?

No.

What a joke. What happened to “trans women are biologically male but identify as female”?

If there’s no such thing as biology then how can someone be trans?

Excellent point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it less offensive if I say only females menstruate?

No.

What a joke. What happened to “trans women are biologically male but identify as female”?

If there’s no such thing as biology then how can someone be trans?

Because you have it backwards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is just so indicative of the liberal circular firing squad.

I am a very liberal very pro LGBTQ advocate.

Do I believe in trans rights to call themselves women/men? Yes.

Do I believe in their right to transition and for advocating for health care coverage for those procedures? Yes.

Do I believe in advocating for awareness and help for children and teens struggling with their gender? Yes.

Do I believe in advocating for anti discrimination laws to protect all LGLBTQ people from harm? Yes.

Do I believe in people being able to use whatever bathroom they want? Yes (I know I differ from JKR here).

Will I happily use whatever pronouns a person wants me to use? Yes.

Do I believe that we should stop using specifically gendered language to discuss gendered political issues that have oppressed women for centuries? No.

Do I believe there should be some acknowledgement of the biological differences that result from the biological sex hormones you were born with when it comes to sports? Yes.

Do I think there should be some safe spaces that women who have been violently victimized by men and who are uncomfortable with women in transition should be able to occupy if they would like as victims? Yes.

But you go to war against people like me, an ally who you would rather call a bigot, because of disagreements in nuance.

And this, in a nutshell, is why we lose elections and Trump gets elected. If you disagree by 10 degrees, you are the enemy.

Honey, nobody called you our enemy. You give yourself way too much credit. I deeply disagree with your very limited and narrow definition of feminism but that doesn’t make you my enemy.