2016 AAP admissions Thread

[Anonymous]

4:01 - chill out.

You have a high opinion of your kids' academics - great!

But objectively it looks like your kid is average academically for a 2nd grader for this area. There is nothing wrong with being average - half of everyone else is worse!

It's 2nd grade. With your positive support perhaps he'll leapfrog his cohorts. Scorched earth with the school staff to try and get into AAP is not a good idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:4:01 - chill out.

You have a high opinion of your kids' academics - great!

But objectively it looks like your kid is average academically for a 2nd grader for this area. There is nothing wrong with being average - half of everyone else is worse!

It's 2nd grade. With your positive support perhaps he'll leapfrog his cohorts. Scorched earth with the school staff to try and get into AAP is not a good idea.

I agree.

My son was not admitted. After I received the decision I requested the file to make sure there wasn't a disconnect between what I saw and what the teacher saw in our son. It turns out his GBRS score was 12, which is probably where I would place him as well. If it had been 6, I planned to request a conference with the teacher - not to accuse them of anything but to try to understand why my son was not exhibiting the behaviors I see at home when at school (e.g., anxiety) and to see if there was a way I could support his education better. Try to think in terms of understanding and moving forward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just wanted to give some advice to parents who are considering the appeal. First, with respect to my son currently in 2nd grade, I am still waiting to find out if he got into AAP (zip code 22101 and can't believe I haven't heard yet). I have twins and one of them we are trying for AAP and one we are not (as AAP is definitely not appropriate for him - he is so smart, but has learning disabilities and we don't want his confidence and enjoyment in school to lessen).

This appeal info is with respect to my older son who is currently at Longfellow in 7th grade AAP and didn't get into AAP at first, but got in on appeal. He took the WISC for the appeal and he scored 99th percentile on verbal so that helped a lot. His 2nd grade teacher was not supportive of him getting into AAP and so I knew I had to do the appeal on my own. The WISC score was enough to get him in on appeal and I would like to say that now in 7th grade he is straight As and one of the best students in Longfellow AAP program (doing super in Mr. Williams math class for those of you who know who he is) so those parents who say that kids who get in on appeal don't deserve to get into AAP don't know what they are talking about. You know your kid better than anyone. Have your kid take the WISC and if the scores are good, appeal. If they are not good, you can still appeal, but know your chances are not as good. If they don't get into AAP for 3rd grade, try again next year, but maybe have your kid do mathnesium or a similar program after school so they don't fall behind in math - that's the biggest difference between AAP and regular education program is that the math moves ahead a year. It's much easier to catch up in reading than math. My oldest son actually didn't enter into AAP until 6th grade because we were overseas and he still did fabulously because we got him a math tutor in 5th grade to help him catch up to where the kids were by 6th grade. So your kid can also do fine entering AAP later if you keep up the math. Good luck!

+100 We got in on appeal also.I thought it was ridiculous in the first place that he did not get in b/c from out of State. they used EVERY excuse. (I was dumb enough to tell people about it --not smart! but he had always been the smartest in the class and I did not know all the politics)
Now in college -- 4.2 average at TJ, now at an Ivy. Really if your DC has the scores and the aptitude, appeal and you will win. The school principal tried to tell me the Math was 'too hard" He got it in one day. People DO get overlooked who belong in the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just wanted to give some advice to parents who are considering the appeal. First, with respect to my son currently in 2nd grade, I am still waiting to find out if he got into AAP (zip code 22101 and can't believe I haven't heard yet). I have twins and one of them we are trying for AAP and one we are not (as AAP is definitely not appropriate for him - he is so smart, but has learning disabilities and we don't want his confidence and enjoyment in school to lessen).

This appeal info is with respect to my older son who is currently at Longfellow in 7th grade AAP and didn't get into AAP at first, but got in on appeal. He took the WISC for the appeal and he scored 99th percentile on verbal so that helped a lot. His 2nd grade teacher was not supportive of him getting into AAP and so I knew I had to do the appeal on my own. The WISC score was enough to get him in on appeal and I would like to say that now in 7th grade he is straight As and one of the best students in Longfellow AAP program (doing super in Mr. Williams math class for those of you who know who he is) so those parents who say that kids who get in on appeal don't deserve to get into AAP don't know what they are talking about. You know your kid better than anyone. Have your kid take the WISC and if the scores are good, appeal. If they are not good, you can still appeal, but know your chances are not as good. If they don't get into AAP for 3rd grade, try again next year, but maybe have your kid do mathnesium or a similar program after school so they don't fall behind in math - that's the biggest difference between AAP and regular education program is that the math moves ahead a year. It's much easier to catch up in reading than math. My oldest son actually didn't enter into AAP until 6th grade because we were overseas and he still did fabulously because we got him a math tutor in 5th grade to help him catch up to where the kids were by 6th grade. So your kid can also do fine entering AAP later if you keep up the math. Good luck!

+100 We got in on appeal also.I thought it was ridiculous in the first place that he did not get in b/c from out of State. they used EVERY excuse. (I was dumb enough to tell people about it --not smart! but he had always been the smartest in the class and I did not know all the politics)
Now in college -- 4.2 average at TJ, now at an Ivy. Really if your DC has the scores and the aptitude, appeal and you will win. The school principal tried to tell me the Math was 'too hard" He got it in one day. People DO get overlooked who belong in the program.

How on earth do you people have the gumption to state these things (underlined) that are just guesses that you've apparently solidified in your minds???????

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was the poster at 4.01. Thank you all for your responses.
Just answering your questions on this post


Where do you inquire about testing for other than WISC tests? Someone mentioned a Woodcock Johnson test,
You can inquire with the testing center at GMU or any private psychologist that does testing.

inquiring about the Lever III services (are these part-time, as in like the same as a 'guest' in the program?)
The level III services at our school was one hour per week. We had inquired with the AART about Level III services and it turned out that our kid's teacher from the prior year had already put a referral for him. As a parent, you can do a referral for Level III services.

Our school has Level IV services and we have a designated AAP Center as well. How to go about inquiring (with the AART or with the Principal directly) either about 'guesting' in the program or part-time services?
You can inquire with the AART but if your school does principal placement at your LLIV, I am guessing that the principal makes that decision with the AART's input.
My kid is in a center and from what I've seen in the data, out of about 380 kids, there were only 3 principal placements who were not in my kid's grade level.

I understand there could be re-testing done for CogAT at the school itself, once in the 3rd-7th grades (so once in those 5 years). Does anyone know when that can be requested or is it school-specific?
Your school will let you know when they are doing the retesting. It's usually in the Fall.
Once they give you the date, you can request the retest.

It seems that my best bet is to hope for a high WISC score. I do not want to prep my child as my intention truly is to see how capable he is - the testing needs to be novel to him. I will also want to manage my expectations - a good point from the earlier poster - about WISC. Perhaps my child excels in only 1 area and that is fine and he may get advanced services in that area. If we do not get into AAP, the life will go on and we will make sure our son matures.

Good for you for not prepping your kid. As other posters have commented, you might want to "chill out" a little. I know it's hard and I totally understand. If this is your first child, it's even harder to chill out because you have no point of reference. I do think that 2nd grade is too early to find your kid's strengths and that's why we waited till 3rd grade to refer.


Someone noted offering him extracurricular opportunities - he has done that consistently since K, taking a variety of school enrichment programs. I am told his chess club instructor thinks he reasons and strategizes really well. He is on a swim team and his coach is impressed with his dedication. I assume letters from extracurricular activities like this should be helpful in the appeals package. BUT a lot of discussants also say that this is an ACADEMIC not extracurricular placement and what matters ultimately and above all is STRONG math and STRONG writing/reading. We are strong in math and we read above grade level. How did that translate into GBRS as low as 6 is completely stumping us.

I think the recommendations from the extracurriculars don't hurt but since they aren't hard, measurable data, I don't think they help that much.
If your child excels in Math, I'd recommend going to a Kumon, a Mathnasium or other academic center like that and get some kind of evaluation. Is your child ahead? How far ahead? Can he do Math that hasn't been taught at his grade level? These are good things to know. The WISC will tell you strengths but being able to quantify how advanced your child is is a good data point.

Can someone please post a few examples of what they have done on appeals if their scores were SIMILAR or IDENTICAL to ours? (NNAT 104, CogAT 111, GBRS 6 (he is clearly not the teacher's favorite student); WSIC testing pending).
I have never posted my kid's scores and I still won't do it here. But we basically had our kid thoroughly tested (and within ethical guidelines)- WISC, Stanford Binet, Woodcock Johnson, and also tested at a Math center. All these tests corroborated with each other, but not so much with the testing done at school. He also tested on the SCAT which also had the same results but we didn't include that in his packet. I'm sure it sounds like overkill but it was so incredibly helpful in understanding his educational needs.

Did they do WISC and other tests and if the latter, where and with what testing and results turnaround? What WSIC score did they get? Were they successful with the appeals process?
We went to a private psychologist who was also testing our other child for ADHD. We got the results back within 10 days. Yes we were successful with the appeals. I think the key point is to have the hard data. We were in the middle of pursuing an IEP for our other kid and it's always like defending your case with proof of everything. Our other kid also took the same tests and other additional ones. It was really expensive but worth it.

I was also shocked at the samples the school selected for the screening file. My child spontaneously produces much better samples at home. I do plan to show strong samples from home but wonder if the central committee will see them as 'controlled' since the will come from home.

Yes the work samples that were submitted for our kid were horrible. There was a Math worksheet that he came home with where he had explained fractions really well. His explanation was correct, insightful and showed advanced thinking but the teacher had marked it wrong so we couldn't submit it. We had it verified at the Math center and the director said that he doesn't see kids his age being able to explain a concept like that so well. We did submit work samples from home.

Thank you all for your input.

[Anonymous]

Need some guidance on Level 3 packet. What goes in the parent referral? Do I self boast about my chlid's attributes.

[Anonymous]

My child has ADHD. He was diagnosed in first grade. We had a full evaluation done as well as testing by the school. His nnat was a129 (taken before ADHD treatment and IEP). His cogat was 135. I was told to his package would reference the IEP and ADHD to explain why one score was slightly lower. He got in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Need some guidance on Level 3 packet. What goes in the parent referral? Do I self boast about my chlid's attributes.

Referral for Level 3 services is not a packet. It is a one-page form. You need to answer the question:

In the space provided below, please explain why the student should be considered for advanced academic school-based
services.

The form can be found here: http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/packet/Fillable_AAPSchool-BasedServicesReferralForm.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Need some guidance on Level 3 packet. What goes in the parent referral? Do I self boast about my chlid's attributes.

Yes.

[Anonymous]

I hear what you are saying, but the scores are not near the benchmark. I would spend you time advocating for more enrichment in his homeroom class. Be creative and offer solutions. Ask for Level 3.

[Anonymous]

You mention classroom behavior as a reason he needs to be "challenged" yet the scores and teacuer assessment do not support this assumption at all.

Our AART told me thay the exact middle for fcps is 112, give or take a point depending on the year. Your son's scores would put him below average, not slightly above average.

Is it possible, and I say this with kindness and not snark, that your son is acting out because he has an undiagnosed learning disability and not because he is not heing challenged as you claim? Learning disabilities can show themselves through "bored" type behaviors, as can things like adhd.

Perhaps you should be looking at those areas to deal with the problems he is having in school, and not fighting to get into AAP.

If your goal is getting the best services for your child, you need to look at wat makes the most sense vs what make you as tue mom feel the best.

Bright and average kids can struggle in school and it does not mean they need to be in a gifted program.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have gone through the entire thread to see if any of it can be helpful to me.
Our situation does not look hopeful but I am trying to appeal because I think that my child is very bright (not gifted in a typical sense) and his classroom behavior and results point to the fact that he needs to be challenged. That is my sole purpose in pursuing AAP process. in short, I'd rather have him try and fail at acquiring new knowledge, fall down, dust it off and try again than do rote memorization and worksheets at nauseum in his current classroom set up. I do not care about labels. I know my child is exceptional. EVERY child is. Mine would benefit from the AAP environment. He is an exceptional numerical thinker and analyzes every single situation in numbers. He also has great vocabulary and likes learning new words. He like analogies. But he stutters and I wonder if that is making his school 'profile' him in a particular way.

I also believe that the AAP program must be conditioned to a certain degree by what the local level IV capacity is and what the center capacity is. I am not making any accusations here - it has to do with physical limitations of a particular school. No one can convince me that if, hypothetically, 50 students across my child's school's 2nd grade applied to AAP and all 50 would be found eligible on all scores (GBRS, CogAT, NNAT, holistic package from parents, etc) but there were those who were just a tad more advanced, that there would be no cut-off, whatever that school determined its OWN cut-off to be.

I do want to state the facts as well and hope that someone can enlighten me as to what would be helpful do to in our case.
NNAT - 104 I know it is average or slightly above average
CogAT - 111 the same comment as above
GBRS - 6 we are truly flabbergasted by this number. Hardly any positive commentary is provided (so to an earlier poster who said "All GBRS commentary is positive", this is clearly not true)

I don't think I have seen GBRS as low as ours, in these and all past forums I have combed through. So I am curious to hear your opinions.

I am scheduled to have my child tested with the WSIC (IV or V? I do not know) at GMU. I was told the score would be known before the appeals deadline so I am not planning to frantically look for an independently licensed psychologist to get the results instantaneously. I am not pursuing WSIC to prove my school wrong. My child did not do well on CogAT because he is a visual person and I understand CogAT test instructions are done verbally without being repeated. I am pursuing WSIC to determine whether my child has solid knowledge and aptitude to function in a fast-paced world with lots of demands placed on kids. His grade reports for the most part have 4s and a few 3s. He consistently brings home school work graded at 4. Why is GBRS so low? He does not jump in front of his teacher shouting answers. He takes time to ponder issues, look at everything from different angles and asks me inquisitive questions. I KNOW he wants to learn more. His teacher seemingly believes he is fine in his littler corner, doing rote memorization (she loves that style of teaching and learning and admitted it to me during several teacher-parent conferences). I know my child needs more. I'd rather have him be at the bottom of the AAP class due novelty of the concepts and the ways students are asked to approach and solve them, then near the top of his Gen Ed classes. This way, in the Gen Ed classes, he is conditioned to be complacent.

What do you think our chances of an appeal are? What would you think his WSIC needs to be? Is it worth my time to contact the school screening file committee (not sure if this is the class teacher, AART teacher, principal?) and challenge the content of the screening file which I do have at my disposal. How to prepare the appeals package so it tells the central committee that my child deserves to be in the AAP class because he is an exceptional child, exceptional in his own ways. What to put an emphasis on in the appeals package? I assume that since my school thinks so low of my child that involving them in the appeals file is pointless? I did submit a parent questionnaire and recommendation letter the first time around. Is it worth arguing this point again? New samples and if so, of what type? original writing? Math critical thinking? Artsy projects?

Thank you for all your thoughts and input.

What were the GBRS comments exactly?

If you read your bolded statement above, you describe many, many, many of the kids in the base program AND yet you were still expecting a higher GBRS. If your child had a 16 GBRS, your child still would not have been admitted with those scores. I am not trying to be mean, but you seem to be thinking that the school's poor view of him was the reason he was denied admission.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was the poster at 4.01. Thank you all for your responses.

Where do you inquire about testing for other than WSIC tests? Someone mentioned a Woodcock Johnson test, as well as inquiring about the Lever III services (are these part-time, as in like the same as a 'guest' in the program?) Our school has Level IV services and we have a designated AAP Center as well. How to go about inquiring (with the AART or with the Principal directly) either about 'guesting' in the program or part-time services? I understand there could be re-testing done for CogAT at the school itself, once in the 3rd-7th grades (so once in those 5 years). Does anyone know when that can be requested or is it school-specific?

It seems that my best bet is to hope for a high WSIC score. I do not want to prep my child as my intention truly is to see how capable he is - the testing needs to be novel to him. I will also want to manage my expectations - a good point from the earlier poster - about WSIC. Perhaps my child excels in only 1 area and that is fine and he may get advanced services in that area. If we do not get into AAP, the life will go on and we will make sure our son matures. Someone noted offering him extracurricular opportunities - he has done that consistently since K, taking a variety of school enrichment programs. I am told his chess club instructor thinks he reasons and strategizes really well. He is on a swim team and his coach is impressed with his dedication. I assume letters from extracurricular activities like this should be helpful in the appeals package. BUT a lot of discussants also say that this is an ACADEMIC not extracurricular placement and what matters ultimately and above all is STRONG math and STRONG writing/reading. We are strong in math and we read above grade level. How did that translate into GBRS as low as 6 is completely stumping us.

Can someone please post a few examples of what they have done on appeals if their scores were SIMILAR or IDENTICAL to ours? (NNAT 104, CogAT 111, GBRS 6 (he is clearly not the teacher's favorite student); WSIC testing pending). Did they do WSIC and other tests and if the latter, where and with what testing and results turnaround? What WSIC score did they get? Were they successful with the appeals process?

I was also shocked at the samples the school selected for the screening file. My child spontaneously produces much better samples at home. I do plan to show strong samples from home but wonder if the central committee will see them as 'controlled' since the will come from home.

Thank you all for your input.

My child's Cogat score was about 10 pts lower than her WISC score. I think if you look back through thread this thread and previous years, you can see the range of the scores and get a feel for how far apart they are. It seems like your child's scores are in line with each other and you might not want to pin your hopes on a massive point difference on the WISC. All these tests are similar enough in nature. That beings said, there are alternate tests to the WISC that you could peruse and submit if those might be better for your child (gmu testing services lists them I think). Lastly, you might just want to consider what you can do to make your child's school experience the best it can be right where he since it might end up that is the best place for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not in, and not happy about it. Will be appealing.

NNAT 130
CoGat 131
GBRS 14

This is shocking!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not in, and not happy about it. Will be appealing.

NNAT 130
CoGat 131
GBRS 14

This is shocking!

Not sure, why this is shocking? NNAT and CoGAT are below in pool score, only GBRS is high. Need good scores on 2 of 3, preferably on GBRS and CoGAT which are valued higher than NNAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not in, and not happy about it. Will be appealing.

NNAT 130
CoGat 131
GBRS 14

This is shocking!

Not sure, why this is shocking? NNAT and CoGAT are below in pool score, only GBRS is high. Need good scores on 2 of 3, preferably on GBRS and CoGAT which are valued higher than NNAT.

PP is talking out of his/her ass.