2016 AAP admissions Thread

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have gone through the entire thread to see if any of it can be helpful to me.
Our situation does not look hopeful but I am trying to appeal because I think that my child is very bright (not gifted in a typical sense) and his classroom behavior and results point to the fact that he needs to be challenged. That is my sole purpose in pursuing AAP process. in short, I'd rather have him try and fail at acquiring new knowledge, fall down, dust it off and try again than do rote memorization and worksheets at nauseum in his current classroom set up. I do not care about labels. I know my child is exceptional. EVERY child is. Mine would benefit from the AAP environment. He is an exceptional numerical thinker and analyzes every single situation in numbers. He also has great vocabulary and likes learning new words. He like analogies. But he stutters and I wonder if that is making his school 'profile' him in a particular way.

I also believe that the AAP program must be conditioned to a certain degree by what the local level IV capacity is and what the center capacity is. I am not making any accusations here - it has to do with physical limitations of a particular school. No one can convince me that if, hypothetically, 50 students across my child's school's 2nd grade applied to AAP and all 50 would be found eligible on all scores (GBRS, CogAT, NNAT, holistic package from parents, etc) but there were those who were just a tad more advanced, that there would be no cut-off, whatever that school determined its OWN cut-off to be.

I do want to state the facts as well and hope that someone can enlighten me as to what would be helpful do to in our case.
NNAT - 104 I know it is average or slightly above average
CogAT - 111 the same comment as above
GBRS - 6 we are truly flabbergasted by this number. Hardly any positive commentary is provided (so to an earlier poster who said "All GBRS commentary is positive", this is clearly not true)

I don't think I have seen GBRS as low as ours, in these and all past forums I have combed through. So I am curious to hear your opinions.

I am scheduled to have my child tested with the WSIC (IV or V? I do not know) at GMU. I was told the score would be known before the appeals deadline so I am not planning to frantically look for an independently licensed psychologist to get the results instantaneously. I am not pursuing WSIC to prove my school wrong. My child did not do well on CogAT because he is a visual person and I understand CogAT test instructions are done verbally without being repeated. I am pursuing WSIC to determine whether my child has solid knowledge and aptitude to function in a fast-paced world with lots of demands placed on kids. His grade reports for the most part have 4s and a few 3s. He consistently brings home school work graded at 4. Why is GBRS so low? He does not jump in front of his teacher shouting answers. He takes time to ponder issues, look at everything from different angles and asks me inquisitive questions. I KNOW he wants to learn more. His teacher seemingly believes he is fine in his littler corner, doing rote memorization (she loves that style of teaching and learning and admitted it to me during several teacher-parent conferences). I know my child needs more. I'd rather have him be at the bottom of the AAP class due novelty of the concepts and the ways students are asked to approach and solve them, then near the top of his Gen Ed classes. This way, in the Gen Ed classes, he is conditioned to be complacent.

What do you think our chances of an appeal are? What would you think his WSIC needs to be? Is it worth my time to contact the school screening file committee (not sure if this is the class teacher, AART teacher, principal?) and challenge the content of the screening file which I do have at my disposal. How to prepare the appeals package so it tells the central committee that my child deserves to be in the AAP class because he is an exceptional child, exceptional in his own ways. What to put an emphasis on in the appeals package? I assume that since my school thinks so low of my child that involving them in the appeals file is pointless? I did submit a parent questionnaire and recommendation letter the first time around. Is it worth arguing this point again? New samples and if so, of what type? original writing? Math critical thinking? Artsy projects?

Thank you for all your thoughts and input.

What were the GBRS comments exactly?

If you read your bolded statement above, you describe many, many, many of the kids in the base program AND yet you were still expecting a higher GBRS. If your child had a 16 GBRS, your child still would not have been admitted with those scores. I am not trying to be mean, but you seem to be thinking that the school's poor view of him was the reason he was denied admission.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The person who "works in education" sounds like a total idiot.

Best practices for gifted identification require a holistic review and definitely to a single score criterion.

In fact, the program review done a few years ago absolutely praised FCPS for its thorough and fair identification process.

Which review was this and who conducted it?

GMU Program Review

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/review.shtml

thanks for the link. I wouldn't call it "'praised" - meeting "industry standards" for identification isn't exactly jump up and down. And the 7 page "next step" guide is obscenely high level - they should add a box that says "fix budget" or "lower class size".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Responding to 4:01's questions. I've been in your situation so I understand what you are going through.

What do you think our chances of an appeal are?
It will totally depend on your appeal package, which should include at least a WISC.

What would you think his WISC needs to be?
Unlike the CogAT, there is not a firm cut off on the WISC. The "consensus" in DCUM says above 130 but it varies. If your child gets a score above 130, there's not much else you need to do with the rest of the package. If it's below 130, then I'd recommend get other testing done- such as Woodcock Johnson Achievement Test, to see if your child is functioning way above grade level. I know you have a lot invested in this WISC right now but make sure you manage your expectations.

Is it worth my time to contact the school screening file committee (not sure if this is the class teacher, AART teacher, principal?) and challenge the content of the screening file which I do have at my disposal.
No, no, no. I know you feel like "challenging" people but don't do it. Looks like the way you see your child is not the way the school sees him. If you were to talk with the school, be polite and gather information. Do not challenge!

How to prepare the appeals package so it tells the central committee that my child deserves to be in the AAP class because he is an exceptional child, exceptional in his own ways. What to put an emphasis on in the appeals package?
Hard evidence helps the package. Testing scores. Don't limit yourself to the WISC.

I assume that since my school thinks so low of my child that involving them in the appeals file is pointless?
You don't need to involve the school in the appeals but do get their input for your benefit.

I did submit a parent questionnaire and recommendation letter the first time around. Is it worth arguing this point again?
You seem to be a parent who puts attention to details. Write a parent letter on how/why your child would be a fit in the AAP classroom, especially if the test results can corroborate with what you are saying.

New samples and if so, of what type? original writing? Math critical thinking? Artsy projects?
Yes all those wouldn't hurt, but focus on the work samples that show your child's strengths. Use the WISC report to see which areas you should highlight.

At also note, your child is ONLY in 2nd grade. This is not a one time thing. If he doesn't get in on appeal, take the next few months to record more observations and refer him next year if you still think that he doesn't fit the gen ed classroom. Good luck and please post about how that goes.

careful with that advice - on this thread was a 134 WISC, not eligible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP centers need to fill the classes and FCPS does not want to bus students far. The committee probably looks at students in the pool school by school and fill the quota. If there are a lot of students in the pool going to one particular center then the committee becomes more selective.

This is utter BS. So it's harder to get into AAP from some schools than others? Another reason the entire center concept is a farce. FCPS touts that unlike other districts, it can serve all students found eligible. But if it's not properly finding students eligible because of logistical considerations, that's misleading.

Before someone gets snarky, my child was admitted. This is not sour grapes personally.

The central screening committee is looking for reasons to find students Center-eligible and they are not considering "FCPS does not want to bus students far." They absolutely do NOT look "at students in the pool school by school and fill the quota."

See the GMU Program review, starting on page 45.
http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/pdfs/2013GMUReview.pdf

not to be cynical - but GMU is the only place that can conduct placement tests for FCPS...

[Anonymous]

Does anyone have experience with kids that are poor test takers? Our son has severe ADHD and sitting still for these standardized tests is impossible. He gets to a point that he just stops filling in answers or just fills in the answers with anything to finish. He is in level 3 but was placed in level 4 classrooms this year. He has excelled with the level 4 curriculum, getting all 4s. He has a 14 GBRS but his test scores are abysmal. I could take him for the WISC but that is a REALLY long test and I just don't think he can sit for it.

I feel like this one component is holding him back but his disability is the reason and I don't know how to get that point across in appeal.

Any advice would be appreciated!

[Anonymous]

For the ADHD child, do you have an IEP or 504 plan in place? If so, I would include that with the appeal. If not, I think it's going to be an uphill battle on that and you may want to consider getting one as they do additional test taking time, etc. for kids with ADHD with 504 or IEP.

[Anonymous]

he does have a 504 now that was put in place at the very end of last year after all of the testing was complete. Great idea to include it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:he does have a 504 now that was put in place at the very end of last year after all of the testing was complete. Great idea to include it!

The WISC is also administered by a psychologist 1v1. See if you can get in touch with someone at the GMU testing center and maybe they can advise you better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have gone through the entire thread to see if any of it can be helpful to me.
Our situation does not look hopeful but I am trying to appeal because I think that my child is very bright (not gifted in a typical sense) and his classroom behavior and results point to the fact that he needs to be challenged. That is my sole purpose in pursuing AAP process. in short, I'd rather have him try and fail at acquiring new knowledge, fall down, dust it off and try again than do rote memorization and worksheets at nauseum in his current classroom set up. I do not care about labels. I know my child is exceptional. EVERY child is. Mine would benefit from the AAP environment. He is an exceptional numerical thinker and analyzes every single situation in numbers. He also has great vocabulary and likes learning new words. He like analogies. But he stutters and I wonder if that is making his school 'profile' him in a particular way.

I also believe that the AAP program must be conditioned to a certain degree by what the local level IV capacity is and what the center capacity is. I am not making any accusations here - it has to do with physical limitations of a particular school. No one can convince me that if, hypothetically, 50 students across my child's school's 2nd grade applied to AAP and all 50 would be found eligible on all scores (GBRS, CogAT, NNAT, holistic package from parents, etc) but there were those who were just a tad more advanced, that there would be no cut-off, whatever that school determined its OWN cut-off to be.

I do want to state the facts as well and hope that someone can enlighten me as to what would be helpful do to in our case.
NNAT - 104 I know it is average or slightly above average
CogAT - 111 the same comment as above
GBRS - 6 we are truly flabbergasted by this number. Hardly any positive commentary is provided (so to an earlier poster who said "All GBRS commentary is positive", this is clearly not true)

I don't think I have seen GBRS as low as ours, in these and all past forums I have combed through. So I am curious to hear your opinions.

I am scheduled to have my child tested with the WSIC (IV or V? I do not know) at GMU. I was told the score would be known before the appeals deadline so I am not planning to frantically look for an independently licensed psychologist to get the results instantaneously. I am not pursuing WSIC to prove my school wrong. My child did not do well on CogAT because he is a visual person and I understand CogAT test instructions are done verbally without being repeated. I am pursuing WSIC to determine whether my child has solid knowledge and aptitude to function in a fast-paced world with lots of demands placed on kids. His grade reports for the most part have 4s and a few 3s. He consistently brings home school work graded at 4. Why is GBRS so low? He does not jump in front of his teacher shouting answers. He takes time to ponder issues, look at everything from different angles and asks me inquisitive questions. I KNOW he wants to learn more. His teacher seemingly believes he is fine in his littler corner, doing rote memorization (she loves that style of teaching and learning and admitted it to me during several teacher-parent conferences). I know my child needs more. I'd rather have him be at the bottom of the AAP class due novelty of the concepts and the ways students are asked to approach and solve them, then near the top of his Gen Ed classes. This way, in the Gen Ed classes, he is conditioned to be complacent.

What do you think our chances of an appeal are? What would you think his WSIC needs to be? Is it worth my time to contact the school screening file committee (not sure if this is the class teacher, AART teacher, principal?) and challenge the content of the screening file which I do have at my disposal. How to prepare the appeals package so it tells the central committee that my child deserves to be in the AAP class because he is an exceptional child, exceptional in his own ways. What to put an emphasis on in the appeals package? I assume that since my school thinks so low of my child that involving them in the appeals file is pointless? I did submit a parent questionnaire and recommendation letter the first time around. Is it worth arguing this point again? New samples and if so, of what type? original writing? Math critical thinking? Artsy projects?

Thank you for all your thoughts and input.

What were the GBRS comments exactly?

If you read your bolded statement above, you describe many, many, many of the kids in the base program AND yet you were still expecting a higher GBRS. If your child had a 16 GBRS, your child still would not have been admitted with those scores. I am not trying to be mean, but you seem to be thinking that the school's poor view of him was the reason he was denied admission.

If he is a visual learner, why was his NNAT so low?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have gone through the entire thread to see if any of it can be helpful to me.
Our situation does not look hopeful but I am trying to appeal because I think that my child is very bright (not gifted in a typical sense) and his classroom behavior and results point to the fact that he needs to be challenged. That is my sole purpose in pursuing AAP process. in short, I'd rather have him try and fail at acquiring new knowledge, fall down, dust it off and try again than do rote memorization and worksheets at nauseum in his current classroom set up. I do not care about labels. I know my child is exceptional. EVERY child is. Mine would benefit from the AAP environment. He is an exceptional numerical thinker and analyzes every single situation in numbers. He also has great vocabulary and likes learning new words. He like analogies. But he stutters and I wonder if that is making his school 'profile' him in a particular way.

I also believe that the AAP program must be conditioned to a certain degree by what the local level IV capacity is and what the center capacity is. I am not making any accusations here - it has to do with physical limitations of a particular school. No one can convince me that if, hypothetically, 50 students across my child's school's 2nd grade applied to AAP and all 50 would be found eligible on all scores (GBRS, CogAT, NNAT, holistic package from parents, etc) but there were those who were just a tad more advanced, that there would be no cut-off, whatever that school determined its OWN cut-off to be.

I do want to state the facts as well and hope that someone can enlighten me as to what would be helpful do to in our case.
NNAT - 104 I know it is average or slightly above average
CogAT - 111 the same comment as above
GBRS - 6 we are truly flabbergasted by this number. Hardly any positive commentary is provided (so to an earlier poster who said "All GBRS commentary is positive", this is clearly not true)

I don't think I have seen GBRS as low as ours, in these and all past forums I have combed through. So I am curious to hear your opinions.

I am scheduled to have my child tested with the WSIC (IV or V? I do not know) at GMU. I was told the score would be known before the appeals deadline so I am not planning to frantically look for an independently licensed psychologist to get the results instantaneously. I am not pursuing WSIC to prove my school wrong. My child did not do well on CogAT because he is a visual person and I understand CogAT test instructions are done verbally without being repeated. I am pursuing WSIC to determine whether my child has solid knowledge and aptitude to function in a fast-paced world with lots of demands placed on kids. His grade reports for the most part have 4s and a few 3s. He consistently brings home school work graded at 4. Why is GBRS so low? He does not jump in front of his teacher shouting answers. He takes time to ponder issues, look at everything from different angles and asks me inquisitive questions. I KNOW he wants to learn more. His teacher seemingly believes he is fine in his littler corner, doing rote memorization (she loves that style of teaching and learning and admitted it to me during several teacher-parent conferences). I know my child needs more. I'd rather have him be at the bottom of the AAP class due novelty of the concepts and the ways students are asked to approach and solve them, then near the top of his Gen Ed classes. This way, in the Gen Ed classes, he is conditioned to be complacent.

What do you think our chances of an appeal are? What would you think his WSIC needs to be? Is it worth my time to contact the school screening file committee (not sure if this is the class teacher, AART teacher, principal?) and challenge the content of the screening file which I do have at my disposal. How to prepare the appeals package so it tells the central committee that my child deserves to be in the AAP class because he is an exceptional child, exceptional in his own ways. What to put an emphasis on in the appeals package? I assume that since my school thinks so low of my child that involving them in the appeals file is pointless? I did submit a parent questionnaire and recommendation letter the first time around. Is it worth arguing this point again? New samples and if so, of what type? original writing? Math critical thinking? Artsy projects?

Thank you for all your thoughts and input.

What were the GBRS comments exactly?

If you read your bolded statement above, you describe many, many, many of the kids in the base program AND yet you were still expecting a higher GBRS. If your child had a 16 GBRS, your child still would not have been admitted with those scores. I am not trying to be mean, but you seem to be thinking that the school's poor view of him was the reason he was denied admission.

If he is a visual learner, why was his NNAT so low?

Sry - not visual learner, but a visual person?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:he does have a 504 now that was put in place at the very end of last year after all of the testing was complete. Great idea to include it!

The WISC is also administered by a psychologist 1v1. See if you can get in touch with someone at the GMU testing center and maybe they can advise you better.

When my son was formally diagnosed with ADHD by a psychologist, he was given a multitude of tests, including the WISC. His scores were all over the place, due to the ADHD, but the psychologist had some very helpful explanations for why the discrepancy in scores. Are you certain your son did not take an aptitude test during this time?

FWIW, I did include some of this commentary in my DS's AAP packet (with the scores themselves) and he got in. I agree it certainly can't help to include it, especially any language regarding test taking issues.

[Anonymous]

13:21, not true. GMU is not the only place you can take tests.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the ADHD thoughts. I think perhaps where we went wrong was just getting the diagnosis through our pediatrician using the Connors. We have been talking about scheduling a full neuropsychological test but were planning to wait until summer so we don't interfere with school.

Is a GBRS of 14 strong? I really know nothing about these scores so this is all new to us!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the ADHD thoughts. I think perhaps where we went wrong was just getting the diagnosis through our pediatrician using the Connors. We have been talking about scheduling a full neuropsychological test but were planning to wait until summer so we don't interfere with school.

Is a GBRS of 14 strong? I really know nothing about these scores so this is all new to us!

The top is 16, so yes, I'd say it's strong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have experience with kids that are poor test takers? Our son has severe ADHD and sitting still for these standardized tests is impossible. He gets to a point that he just stops filling in answers or just fills in the answers with anything to finish. He is in level 3 but was placed in level 4 classrooms this year. He has excelled with the level 4 curriculum, getting all 4s. He has a 14 GBRS but his test scores are abysmal. I could take him for the WISC but that is a REALLY long test and I just don't think he can sit for it.

I feel like this one component is holding him back but his disability is the reason and I don't know how to get that point across in appeal.

Any advice would be appreciated!

DD also has ADHD. Test scores were not in pool, but just got into full-time Level IV. I totally feel you on the test thing. We seeked help towards the end of her K year due to inconsistent work and attitude about school in general. Psychologist did Woodcock-Johnson and WPPSI (since she was not 6 at the time). She had a classic ADHD profile with a split between exceptionally high scores on most areas and abysmal scores on working memory and processing speed. We got a 504 plan in place at the start of 1st and she has done great with no meds.

We knew her test scores would end up being a wildcard, so I packed her referral full of info from the psychologist's report including the old test scores and creative stuff from home (she writes & illustrates stories in her free time). I did not ask for her GBRS, but I bet it's pretty high because her K, 1, and 2 teachers have all commented to me how bright and creative she is. She's also spent considerable time with the AART since K.

So don't worry so much about test scores, but highlight the full package and what makes your child unique. And I'd also recommend 504 plan if you don't have it.