Confederate Battle Flag

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am amazed by the anti free speech themes that have come out- copy the Germans! I suppose however this is the natural outgrowth of the pc movement.

The flag didn't cause this and I'll be happy when this man is put to death. But I won't let his actions take away my pride and love for this flag. I have a right to display it. Of South Carolina wants to remove it that's their business.

Oh Lord. No one is taking away your right to free speech. This argument annoys the hell out of me. Display any flag you want in front of your own house, on your car... tattoo it on your face for all I care. But the government has a responsibility to show respect to all of all of its citizens and this particular flag is offensive to many of us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:No one cares about Dylan Roof just because he is a racist. There are millions of racists. We care about Dylan Roof because he is a mass killer. You can name-call all you want but attempting to blame a psycho-killer's actions on a bunch of racists just because you don't like what the racists stand for is patently illogical.

You might as well blame Martin Scorcese for the movie "Taxi Driver" since that movie was one of the things that "motivated" Hinckley. Oh wait you don't mind that incident since it was an attempted assassination of a politician you don't like (Reagan) therefore it's all good, right?

I find this argument very strange and entirely illogical. First of all, we have no clue if Roof would have been inspired to commit a mass murder if he was not experiencing the paranoia that was sparked and nurtured by racist propaganda and white supremacist online "friends". He might have spent the rest of his lonely days playing violent video games or whatever he was doing before he committed this murder.

Also, we have a history of murders very much like this one in this country which were inspired by white supremacist hatred. The embers of our violent racist history smolder just beneath the surface as you can clearly see on the white supremacist blog Roof was frequenting. Were all of the racist murderers of our past criminally insane? Or were they inspired to change the world and become heroes? Zealots do commit mass murders for a cause. We are able to believe this fact when Islamic extremists commit mass murders but not when young, white Americans do it. Why is that? I don't see what is so different about this one besides the fact that people don't want to admit that racism is real and dangerous.

Things have improved a little bit for black people for a short while in this country. Many of us never thought we would see a black president and yet we did. Historically, whenever things begin to improve there is backlash. Frankly, I expected to see something like this happen much sooner after Obama was elected and we began to see racist statements about him popping up all over the place. If you don't think that intense, political beliefs can inspire murderers to commit mass murder, you are seriously delusional. Why would history not repeat itself?

Hmmm very interesting. So you believe murderers do it because of "inspiration" they receive from other people?

I guess that means you think someone must have inspired all the blacks who have murdered other blacks in Baltimore since the Freddy Gray indictments, it's probably close to a hundred of those murders by now.

Do you think that Prosecutor Mosby "inspired" some of these murders? How about Mayor Rawlings-Blake? Didn't they both make very public pronouncements basically encouraging chaos in their city?

Oh but no....no, all those thugs in Baltimore who've been basically going on a crime/killing spree since those indictments, they don't take any "inspiration" from those politicians. No sir. Because that would be....that would be.....racist, to blame black people for their actions.

Another PP here. What is interesting is that you want to portray this guy as a crazy lone-wolf who did not have any outside influences to kill - despite the fact that he was immersed in racist dogma. At the same time, folks on here and in the Con media were quick to say the NYC police killer was spurred to action by Sharpton and POTUS despite clear evidence that he was also crazy.

We also said only one person pulled the trigger....

If this kid had been a Muslim, you would have pointed to every single influence and declared that they "radicalized" him. His churches, the websites he visited, anyone of influence who had contact with him. Why is it different here?

And had he been Muslim, the media would be bending over backwards to explain that this crime had nothing to do with Islam and was not representative of anything larger than a radical fringe, rather than waving the bloody shirt in the manner they are doing now. Few if any of the people discussing this incident are doing so in a principled way, its all about whose ox you want to gore. Too many houses, not enough pox, I say.

If that's true, it would be because conservatives like to say that it's not Islam, just "radical Islam".

I freely agree that many conservatives are unwilling to state the truth as they see it, because of a combination of reasonable fear of consequences, good manners, and abject cowardice, varying in proportion among individuals and circumstances. That's why they are losers. Say what you will about the left, suppressing the symbols of a defeated enemy and engaging in guilt-by-association smears to advance long held political goals are both rational and the acts of a side that wants to win. Which is, of course, why they will.

Suppressing symbols of a defeated enemy. What the hell are you blabbering about? You are free to fly the stars and bars. You are free to be a white supremacist, if you want.

But don't expect the government to be a part of it.

[Anonymous]

Time magazine is reporting that Amazon has pulled Confederate flag merchandise as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one cares about Dylan Roof just because he is a racist. There are millions of racists. We care about Dylan Roof because he is a mass killer. You can name-call all you want but attempting to blame a psycho-killer's actions on a bunch of racists just because you don't like what the racists stand for is patently illogical.

You might as well blame Martin Scorcese for the movie "Taxi Driver" since that movie was one of the things that "motivated" Hinckley. Oh wait you don't mind that incident since it was an attempted assassination of a politician you don't like (Reagan) therefore it's all good, right?

I find this argument very strange and entirely illogical. First of all, we have no clue if Roof would have been inspired to commit a mass murder if he was not experiencing the paranoia that was sparked and nurtured by racist propaganda and white supremacist online "friends". He might have spent the rest of his lonely days playing violent video games or whatever he was doing before he committed this murder.

Also, we have a history of murders very much like this one in this country which were inspired by white supremacist hatred. The embers of our violent racist history smolder just beneath the surface as you can clearly see on the white supremacist blog Roof was frequenting. Were all of the racist murderers of our past criminally insane? Or were they inspired to change the world and become heroes? Zealots do commit mass murders for a cause. We are able to believe this fact when Islamic extremists commit mass murders but not when young, white Americans do it. Why is that? I don't see what is so different about this one besides the fact that people don't want to admit that racism is real and dangerous.

Things have improved a little bit for black people for a short while in this country. Many of us never thought we would see a black president and yet we did. Historically, whenever things begin to improve there is backlash. Frankly, I expected to see something like this happen much sooner after Obama was elected and we began to see racist statements about him popping up all over the place. If you don't think that intense, political beliefs can inspire murderers to commit mass murder, you are seriously delusional. Why would history not repeat itself?

Hmmm very interesting. So you believe murderers do it because of "inspiration" they receive from other people?

I guess that means you think someone must have inspired all the blacks who have murdered other blacks in Baltimore since the Freddy Gray indictments, it's probably close to a hundred of those murders by now.

Do you think that Prosecutor Mosby "inspired" some of these murders? How about Mayor Rawlings-Blake? Didn't they both make very public pronouncements basically encouraging chaos in their city?

Oh but no....no, all those thugs in Baltimore who've been basically going on a crime/killing spree since those indictments, they don't take any "inspiration" from those politicians. No sir. Because that would be....that would be.....racist, to blame black people for their actions.

Another PP here. What is interesting is that you want to portray this guy as a crazy lone-wolf who did not have any outside influences to kill - despite the fact that he was immersed in racist dogma. At the same time, folks on here and in the Con media were quick to say the NYC police killer was spurred to action by Sharpton and POTUS despite clear evidence that he was also crazy.

We also said only one person pulled the trigger....

If this kid had been a Muslim, you would have pointed to every single influence and declared that they "radicalized" him. His churches, the websites he visited, anyone of influence who had contact with him. Why is it different here?

And had he been Muslim, the media would be bending over backwards to explain that this crime had nothing to do with Islam and was not representative of anything larger than a radical fringe, rather than waving the bloody shirt in the manner they are doing now. Few if any of the people discussing this incident are doing so in a principled way, its all about whose ox you want to gore. Too many houses, not enough pox, I say.

If that's true, it would be because conservatives like to say that it's not Islam, just "radical Islam".

I freely agree that many conservatives are unwilling to state the truth as they see it, because of a combination of reasonable fear of consequences, good manners, and abject cowardice, varying in proportion among individuals and circumstances. That's why they are losers. Say what you will about the left, suppressing the symbols of a defeated enemy and engaging in guilt-by-association smears to advance long held political goals are both rational and the acts of a side that wants to win. Which is, of course, why they will.

Suppressing symbols of a defeated enemy. What the hell are you blabbering about? You are free to fly the stars and bars. You are free to be a white supremacist, if you want.

But don't expect the government to be a part of it.

And, also expect others to exercise their First Amendment right of Free Speech to condemn and criticize you for flying your stars and bars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am amazed by the anti free speech themes that have come out- copy the Germans! I suppose however this is the natural outgrowth of the pc movement.

The flag didn't cause this and I'll be happy when this man is put to death. But I won't let his actions take away my pride and love for this flag. I have a right to display it. Of South Carolina wants to remove it that's their business.

Oh Lord. No one is taking away your right to free speech. This argument annoys the hell out of me. Display any flag you want in front of your own house, on your car... tattoo it on your face for all I care. But the government has a responsibility to show respect to all of all of its citizens and this particular flag is offensive to many of us.

Well thank you but I am not so sure- npr this morning speaking favorably about German ban of nazi symbols essentially saying why not here? Many others too now making this argument.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is weird that it is flown anywhere outside of private residences. It was the flag of a rebellious treason in the USA. It represents an oppressive regime that sold and purchased black bodies.

What is "rebellious treason" to you can be considered "a quest for independence" by others.

A flag is nothing but a symbol, and of course different people can perceive the same flag in different ways. The Confederate Battle Flag is no exception.

Well, the North won. Get over it. Or leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flag is a symbol, and as such, has different meanings to different people.

I get the same feeling when I see the Confederate flag as I have when I see someone burning the flag of the US - I think it is sad. But, I believe that people have the right to fly the Confederate flag just as people have the right to burn the US flag. I would never do either.

As an AA woman, I agree that people should be able to fly whatever flag they wish. However, I feel differently about the State of South Carolina.

Well, that State doesn't represent you or me, but the citizens actually living and voting there.

Whatever. A state in the USA should not be flying the flag of a non-government entity that was bested in a bloody and brutal civil war 150 years ago. It's inappropriate for ANY government entity in the USA, and to argue otherwise is illogical and treasonous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flag is a symbol, and as such, has different meanings to different people.

I get the same feeling when I see the Confederate flag as I have when I see someone burning the flag of the US - I think it is sad. But, I believe that people have the right to fly the Confederate flag just as people have the right to burn the US flag. I would never do either.

As an AA woman, I agree that people should be able to fly whatever flag they wish. However, I feel differently about the State of South Carolina.

Well, that State doesn't represent you or me, but the citizens actually living and voting there.

Whatever. A state in the USA should not be flying the flag of a non-government entity that was bested in a bloody and brutal civil war 150 years ago. It's inappropriate for ANY government entity in the USA, and to argue otherwise is illogical and treasonous.

I don't think it should fly there either. I also think adding ''bested'' is hilariously unnecessary. And come on now...treasonous?

BTW...check out the Mississippi flag. Stars and Bars are still there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is weird that it is flown anywhere outside of private residences. It was the flag of a rebellious treason in the USA. It represents an oppressive regime that sold and purchased black bodies.

What is "rebellious treason" to you can be considered "a quest for independence" by others.

A flag is nothing but a symbol, and of course different people can perceive the same flag in different ways. The Confederate Battle Flag is no exception.

Well, the North won. Get over it. Or leave.

Were you a carpetbagger in a previous life?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The flag is a symbol, and as such, has different meanings to different people.

I get the same feeling when I see the Confederate flag as I have when I see someone burning the flag of the US - I think it is sad. But, I believe that people have the right to fly the Confederate flag just as people have the right to burn the US flag. I would never do either.

As an AA woman, I agree that people should be able to fly whatever flag they wish. However, I feel differently about the State of South Carolina.

Well, that State doesn't represent you or me, but the citizens actually living and voting there.

Whatever. A state in the USA should not be flying the flag of a non-government entity that was bested in a bloody and brutal civil war 150 years ago. It's inappropriate for ANY government entity in the USA, and to argue otherwise is illogical and treasonous.

I don't think it should fly there either. I also think adding ''bested'' is hilariously unnecessary. And come on now...treasonous?

BTW...check out the Mississippi flag. Stars and Bars are still there.

Yes. It is expressing loyalty to a non-US entity. That's the definition of treason.

And Mississippi is the land of overweight, uneducated troglodytes, so what do you expect? It's wrong there too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is weird that it is flown anywhere outside of private residences. It was the flag of a rebellious treason in the USA. It represents an oppressive regime that sold and purchased black bodies.

What is "rebellious treason" to you can be considered "a quest for independence" by others.

A flag is nothing but a symbol, and of course different people can perceive the same flag in different ways. The Confederate Battle Flag is no exception.

Well, the North won. Get over it. Or leave.

Were you a carpetbagger in a previous life?

No, just an educated American who despises ignorant people who cling to vestiges of an old and discredited way of life, based on oppression and ignorance.

[Anonymous]

Mississippi to propose removal of Confederate emblem from state flag

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/23/mississippi-confederate-flag-consider-dropping-emblem

Lawmakers in Mississippi plan to propose legislation to remove the Confederate emblem from the state flag, as momentum grows across the south for symbols that evoke the era of slavery to be removed from public view.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:Mississippi to propose removal of Confederate emblem from state flag

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/23/mississippi-confederate-flag-consider-dropping-emblem

Lawmakers in Mississippi plan to propose legislation to remove the Confederate emblem from the state flag, as momentum grows across the south for symbols that evoke the era of slavery to be removed from public view.

This reminds me of how quickly things suddenly changed regarding same-sex marriage. Only faster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Time magazine is reporting that Amazon has pulled Confederate flag merchandise as well.

Yep. Wal-Mart, Amazon... I imagine there will be more.

High time.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mississippi to propose removal of Confederate emblem from state flag

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/23/mississippi-confederate-flag-consider-dropping-emblem

Lawmakers in Mississippi plan to propose legislation to remove the Confederate emblem from the state flag, as momentum grows across the south for symbols that evoke the era of slavery to be removed from public view.

This reminds me of how quickly things suddenly changed regarding same-sex marriage. Only faster.

I had the same thought too, recently. It would be interesting to examine if this moves the needle on guns at all.