Reply to Moms of sons - do you guide your son to be respectful of girls?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]

What I object to is the assumption that just if mothers teach their sons to respect women, the issue of rape will disappear. The truth is MOST MEN WILL NOT DREAM OF RAPING WOMEN. Its a subset of evil people, no matter how much you teach them to respect the other person, who will commit evil crimes.

When it comes to rape, the whole issue why people are focusing on this teach your son to respect women is due to a supposed epidemic of rape. So that's why we are talking about false rape accusations because we are pointing out is unfair to assume all men are evil people out to rape women, and that currently the whole climate of rape has warped what rape actually is..leading to every contact being suddenly sexual assault.

You keep talking about don't have sexual contact with a person without their consent. We're pointing out to you that it is hard to prove consent even when there was consent. This is a serious issue that can derail a young man's life. So yes we take false accusations of rape seriously. Just as we take a rape victim seriously. In this current climate there are victims on both sides.[/quote]

The issue of rape, or actual rapes? I don't care if the issue of rape disappears or doesn't disappear. I do care if rape disappears. That would be great.

However, as you say, mothers (or fathers) teaching their sons to respect women will not eliminate rape. Everybody teaching everybody about the importance of affirmative consent (not just no means no, but also yes means yes) will also not eliminate rape. Will it reduce rape, though? Yes. Will it reduce the ability of people who want to rape to get away with rape? Yes. Those are two very worthwhile goals, in my opinion. Do you agree?

Also, I am not a police officer, prosecutor, defense attorney, judge, university dean, or relative of a person who is the subject of a rape accusation I believe to be false. (Are you?) So I am not very interested in legal/administrative standards for proving consent, after the fact.[b] I am much more interested in people only having sexual contact with consenting partners.[/b] [/quote]

Yes, as you've stated over and over and over... [i]no one here is suggesting men have sex with non-consenting partners (i.e. rape) [/i], so I'm not quite sure why you're still harping on this?  And if someone has suggested such a thing, please cite it here (to use one of your constant refrains).  Everyone is quite clear on what rape is, thanks.  But it seems you are not clear on what rape is [b]not[/b].

You can preach about men not having sex with women who don't consent until you're blue in the face.  No one is arguing against that at all.  But what you don't (or won't) admit is that there is also another side of the coin that women are responsible for, and that's:  do not consent to having sex and then decide later that you really weren't consenting and that the consensual sex you enjoyed is now, in your view, "rape".  Don't do this.  This is wrong.  Would you agree?  And is this something you would tell your daughters?  Because if not, then there's really nothing further to discuss with you.  There are two sides to every story, and your constant parroting about "consent" is beyond tiresome.[/quote]

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