Achievement gap continues to grow between high- and low-income schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Income disparity leads to achievement disparity. Check out the thread on tutoring of mcps students

Or vice-versa....

[Anonymous]

So it's über wealthy or shit hole? Fear mongering.

[Anonymous]

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Right - I am among the countless middle class families that finally gave up on MCPS. Most of my neighbors went parochial. For every one of our children that left the system, I'm sure they were replaced by children in the neighboring apartment complex. Enrollment is certainly going up, but at least where I'm from, middle class participation is on the decline. That may not be the case in the green zone, but things are getting bad enough in certain parts of the red zone. I may not have hard data, but I've seen it in action. MCPS turns a blind eye to this trend. Caring about what will bring middle class families back to declining red zone schools should be part of their plan, but it's not. I think MCPS has lost its way.

I keep saying this but feel like it falls on deaf ears. How is MCPS so clueless? The middle class is always the key to stability. The economy is most problematic when the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. MCPS seems to be playing along with this. Resources should be allocated to children who need it. However, when MCPS policy ignores the hard working kid who is doing well, they have changed the pace of learning. This new grading system doesn't help any either. When these kids in the middle (or upper middle) slow down to wait for those who are struggling, they either adopt a consistently lower standard or most likely - their family finds some way to get them out of that environment. The rest of the school suffers because these kids are the backbone of the school. These are kids who have the ability and the resources to do well but still need some attention from MCPS to do so. The highly gifted are swept away and the struggling kids get extra help. The middle are ignored and sink to the bottom or find a way out. Everyone loses with this new trend.

I agree with this. We wanted to like MCPS but the closer we looked the less we liked. So, in addition to paying a lot of taxes to support public schools (which I don't mind doing), we're paying tuition (albeit affordable). I think this system is living off of its reputation from the past 20 years and is in no hurry to change even though it must.

Another poster in agreement with this.

Gotta agree. The more time we spent in a DCC school the less we liked MCPS and the administrators that seem to be kind of kicked off into the DCC. The way admins assume that you must be uninformed or lacking in education to live in the DCC was the last straw.

Amazing how widely varied experiences in DCC can be! It is also such a huge cluster of schools so it is so hard to generalize to DCC what might be one school or one parent/admin interaction.

Nice save effort. Reading the County Council report on the gap. Accurate generalization: DCC = schools experiencing middle class flight.

Wow I must mention that to all those young families that bought and moved into my SS neighborhood in the last few months. And the one on the other side of Colesville rd. Do you realize that if you pull data their is a white flight from all mcps schools. The 2% population change can me attributed to flight from DCC AND so much more

Not sure what you are trying to say. The OLO resport is not about "white flight" as you write but about "middle class flight."

Just because someone moved into your neighborhood it doesn't invalidate the OLO report!!! Anecdotes mean nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Right - I am among the countless middle class families that finally gave up on MCPS. Most of my neighbors went parochial. For every one of our children that left the system, I'm sure they were replaced by children in the neighboring apartment complex. Enrollment is certainly going up, but at least where I'm from, middle class participation is on the decline. That may not be the case in the green zone, but things are getting bad enough in certain parts of the red zone. I may not have hard data, but I've seen it in action. MCPS turns a blind eye to this trend. Caring about what will bring middle class families back to declining red zone schools should be part of their plan, but it's not. I think MCPS has lost its way.

I keep saying this but feel like it falls on deaf ears. How is MCPS so clueless? The middle class is always the key to stability. The economy is most problematic when the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. MCPS seems to be playing along with this. Resources should be allocated to children who need it. However, when MCPS policy ignores the hard working kid who is doing well, they have changed the pace of learning. This new grading system doesn't help any either. When these kids in the middle (or upper middle) slow down to wait for those who are struggling, they either adopt a consistently lower standard or most likely - their family finds some way to get them out of that environment. The rest of the school suffers because these kids are the backbone of the school. These are kids who have the ability and the resources to do well but still need some attention from MCPS to do so. The highly gifted are swept away and the struggling kids get extra help. The middle are ignored and sink to the bottom or find a way out. Everyone loses with this new trend.

I agree with this. We wanted to like MCPS but the closer we looked the less we liked. So, in addition to paying a lot of taxes to support public schools (which I don't mind doing), we're paying tuition (albeit affordable). I think this system is living off of its reputation from the past 20 years and is in no hurry to change even though it must.

Another poster in agreement with this.

Gotta agree. The more time we spent in a DCC school the less we liked MCPS and the administrators that seem to be kind of kicked off into the DCC. The way admins assume that you must be uninformed or lacking in education to live in the DCC was the last straw.

Amazing how widely varied experiences in DCC can be! It is also such a huge cluster of schools so it is so hard to generalize to DCC what might be one school or one parent/admin interaction.

Nice save effort. Reading the County Council report on the gap. Accurate generalization: DCC = schools experiencing middle class flight.

Wow I must mention that to all those young families that bought and moved into my SS neighborhood in the last few months. And the one on the other side of Colesville rd. Do you realize that if you pull data their is a white flight from all mcps schools. The 2% population change can me attributed to flight from DCC AND so much more

Not sure what you are trying to say. The OLO resport is not about "white flight" as you write but about "middle class flight."

Just because someone moved into your neighborhood it doesn't invalidate the OLO report!!! Anecdotes mean nothing.

And incomplete information even less. The flight is from high poverty HIGH SCHOOLS. Not elementary or middle and certainly not from Silver Spring as a whole. Sales and price data show that homes in preferred DCC neighborhoods are competitive.

Unless inventory suddenly opens up or prices crash, educated parents are choosing/have no choice but to grow through the system and change their schools, so that their kids are successful. (See how Einstein has transformed over the years) Will it impact the low achieving kids from uninvolved families or completely close the achievement gap - hopefully a little. As it say within the report itself (pg 16 i think). That White middle class kids even at this point are performing equivalently regardless of their high schools poverty level.

[Anonymous]

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/info/neighbor-to-neighbor/Enrollment-Chart.pdf

White flight from MCPS as a whole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/info/neighbor-to-neighbor/Enrollment-Chart.pdf

White flight from MCPS as a whole.

That chart does not show "white flight". That chart only shows that the number of white students enrolled in MCPS has declined since 1970 -- and most of the decline occurred between 1970 and 1984. There are a lot of different possible reasons for this.

[Anonymous]

The whole country is becoming more diverse...especailly this area. This does not show more white families are choosing private schools.. The largest drop in white families was in the 70's ..pretty stable in recent years. There has just been growth from other groups.

[Anonymous]

I just want to chime in here with my experience growing up in the MCPS system. My family immigrated to the US legally. My dad was well educated but my mom was not. We did not speak english at home but that did not matter. Since my parents were not well off, I grew up in what are considered DCC schools. My parents did not have time to tutor me after school; however they did emphasize the importance of education. They always expected good grades from me. While in ES and MS, I was bullied a lot because I valued learning and was not into pop culture. Most of the kids in my class did not understand the need for a good education since this wasn't a value their parents instilled in them. I did manage to get into a magnet high school and felt much better integrated. One thing to note is that the magnet students hardly ever interacted with the non-magnets, not because of classroom segregation but because of self-segregation. I did go to college and graduate school and am now very successful and able to afford a "W" school. My husband had similar experiences as I did and we both agree, unless society agrees to be completely responsible for raising and educating kids whose parents (and their environment) do not support and expect their kids succeed academically, there is not much you can do. In this case, I do mean taking these kids, putting them in boarding school and providing both academic as well as emotional support.

BTW, for parents who want to send their kids to a "W" school but could only afford apartments, there are some apartments in the Wooton school district. I don't know their prices, but they do have vacancies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just want to chime in here with my experience growing up in the MCPS system. My family immigrated to the US legally. My dad was well educated but my mom was not. We did not speak english at home but that did not matter. Since my parents were not well off, I grew up in what are considered DCC schools. My parents did not have time to tutor me after school; however they did emphasize the importance of education. They always expected good grades from me. While in ES and MS, I was bullied a lot because I valued learning and was not into pop culture. Most of the kids in my class did not understand the need for a good education since this wasn't a value their parents instilled in them. I did manage to get into a magnet high school and felt much better integrated. One thing to note is that the magnet students hardly ever interacted with the non-magnets, not because of classroom segregation but because of self-segregation. I did go to college and graduate school and am now very successful and able to afford a "W" school. My husband had similar experiences as I did and we both agree, unless society agrees to be completely responsible for raising and educating kids whose parents (and their environment) do not support and expect their kids succeed academically, there is not much you can do. In this case, I do mean taking these kids, putting them in boarding school and providing both academic as well as emotional support.

BTW, for parents who want to send their kids to a "W" school but could only afford apartments, there are some apartments in the Wooton school district. I don't know their prices, but they do have vacancies.

So what is your point?

[Anonymous]

W school promoter?

[Anonymous]

apartment owner?

[Anonymous]

I want to start my own school - I just need an investor!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just want to chime in here with my experience growing up in the MCPS system. My family immigrated to the US legally. My dad was well educated but my mom was not. We did not speak english at home but that did not matter. Since my parents were not well off, I grew up in what are considered DCC schools. My parents did not have time to tutor me after school; however they did emphasize the importance of education. They always expected good grades from me. While in ES and MS, I was bullied a lot because I valued learning and was not into pop culture. Most of the kids in my class did not understand the need for a good education since this wasn't a value their parents instilled in them. I did manage to get into a magnet high school and felt much better integrated. One thing to note is that the magnet students hardly ever interacted with the non-magnets, not because of classroom segregation but because of self-segregation. I did go to college and graduate school and am now very successful and able to afford a "W" school. My husband had similar experiences as I did and we both agree, unless society agrees to be completely responsible for raising and educating kids whose parents (and their environment) do not support and expect their kids succeed academically, there is not much you can do. In this case, I do mean taking these kids, putting them in boarding school and providing both academic as well as emotional support.

BTW, for parents who want to send their kids to a "W" school but could only afford apartments, there are some apartments in the Wooton school district. I don't know their prices, but they do have vacancies.

So what is your point?

My point is that the achievement gap is not caused by huge influx of immigrants (just look at inner city schools). It is an issue of parental involvement and expectations. My parents did not have time to go to all the PTA meetings and help me with homework every night, but they did instill values on education. This is very much a cultural thing too (my parents are first generation immigrants from China and technically I am too). In my view, the way to close the achievement gap is not through aimlessly pouring money into these local schools, but to emerge all struggling children from poorer families in a culture and environment that foster learning, which most likely means sending them to boarding schools. That will cost a lot more money than our society is willing to shell out, but it will offer long term benefits such as having a much higher percentage of white collared work force that pay more taxes in the long run.

BTW, I am not advertising for the apartments in the Wooton Cluster. Mentioning them was in direct response to folks who said there are no apartments in the "W" clusters.

[Anonymous]

I thought the school board was proposing to change the school boundaries and feeder school assignments (i.e., mix more Asians/White with Latinos/Black) to close the gap. Lovely idea...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought the school board was proposing to change the school boundaries and feeder school assignments (i.e., mix more Asians/White with Latinos/Black) to close the gap. Lovely idea...

I agree. It is a lovely (good) idea.