Achievement gap continues to grow between high- and low-income schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The academic achievement gap between the different race groups, the gap between the red zone and green zone schools, and the gap between middle class kids ans FARM kids. Which gap concerns you the most? What if mcps starts a reverse magnet program? Busing the poorest neighborhood kids, the low 20% kid from a heavily Farm/ESOL school to a school in the green zone for ES level. The kids will have a choice of staying on for MS and HS.
The gap between the schools will be reduced immediately, the red zone school will have more resource for middle class kids, and the green zone kids will see kids whose primary concerns are not the P or I on their report cards, the poor kids will feel the pressure to study hard.

Chapter 220, Milwaukee's bussing social experiment, did just this. Millions of dollars and a decade later, the bussed inner city students did not perform better on tests, applications, gpa, pregnancy rates, or anything. The "achievement gap" did not statistically significantly reduce. The suburban sports teams did better tho... And the schools got rowdier...

People always act like it's the schools that make the kids score well, but in the vast majority of cases it's the kids that make the schools look good. If you swapped the kids between Whitman and a low performing school and kept everything else the same, what do you think would happen? I can almost guarantee that the kids performance wouldn't change based on the school they're in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The academic achievement gap between the different race groups, the gap between the red zone and green zone schools, and the gap between middle class kids ans FARM kids. Which gap concerns you the most? What if mcps starts a reverse magnet program? Busing the poorest neighborhood kids, the low 20% kid from a heavily Farm/ESOL school to a school in the green zone for ES level. The kids will have a choice of staying on for MS and HS.
The gap between the schools will be reduced immediately, the red zone school will have more resource for middle class kids, and the green zone kids will see kids whose primary concerns are not the P or I on their report cards, the poor kids will feel the pressure to study hard.

I wonder how the people in Bethesda/Potomac would react if MCPS proposed to do this.

And here lies the problem - for some reason, the county is dead set on keeping western MC snowflake village. The high income families appear to have much more influence that the middle class.

It's so strange to me that parents in high income schools would have a problem with a relatively small percentage of kids from a "poorer" area attending their school. No one is really going to flee Bethesda because a small percentage of the school population comes from outside Bethesda. Anyway, the reality at these poorer schools is that there is a decent amount of children from educated, upper middle class families who are zoned for those schools, but who attend private/parochial instead. So in a busing scenario based on school zones, I'm willing to bet there would be a fair amount of middle class kids included. Besides the fact that the perception that kids from low income families are somehow automatically trouble makers or a drain on resources is kind of bs. I think the problem is the critical mass of low income kids at some schools and high income kids at other schools. All to protect inflated property values? Everyone benefits from diversity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
It's so strange to me that parents in high income schools would have a problem with a relatively small percentage of kids from a "poorer" area attending their school. No one is really going to flee Bethesda because a small percentage of the school population comes from outside Bethesda. Anyway, the reality at these poorer schools is that there is a decent amount of children from educated, upper middle class families who are zoned for those schools, but who attend private/parochial instead. So in a busing scenario based on school zones, I'm willing to bet there would be a fair amount of middle class kids included. Besides the fact that the perception that kids from low income families are somehow automatically trouble makers or a drain on resources is kind of bs. I think the problem is the critical mass of low income kids at some schools and high income kids at other schools. All to protect inflated property values? Everyone benefits from diversity.

I'm guessing you haven't experienced the outrage when somebody proposes putting "workforce housing" in a Bethesda/Potomac neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Right - I am among the countless middle class families that finally gave up on MCPS. Most of my neighbors went parochial. For every one of our children that left the system, I'm sure they were replaced by children in the neighboring apartment complex. Enrollment is certainly going up, but at least where I'm from, middle class participation is on the decline. That may not be the case in the green zone, but things are getting bad enough in certain parts of the red zone. I may not have hard data, but I've seen it in action. MCPS turns a blind eye to this trend. Caring about what will bring middle class families back to declining red zone schools should be part of their plan, but it's not. I think MCPS has lost its way.

I keep saying this but feel like it falls on deaf ears. How is MCPS so clueless? The middle class is always the key to stability. The economy is most problematic when the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. MCPS seems to be playing along with this. Resources should be allocated to children who need it. However, when MCPS policy ignores the hard working kid who is doing well, they have changed the pace of learning. This new grading system doesn't help any either. When these kids in the middle (or upper middle) slow down to wait for those who are struggling, they either adopt a consistently lower standard or most likely - their family finds some way to get them out of that environment. The rest of the school suffers because these kids are the backbone of the school. These are kids who have the ability and the resources to do well but still need some attention from MCPS to do so. The highly gifted are swept away and the struggling kids get extra help. The middle are ignored and sink to the bottom or find a way out. Everyone loses with this new trend.






I agree with this. We wanted to like MCPS but the closer we looked the less we liked. So, in addition to paying a lot of taxes to support public schools (which I don't mind doing), we're paying tuition (albeit affordable). I think this system is living off of its reputation from the past 20 years and is in no hurry to change even though it must.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Right - I am among the countless middle class families that finally gave up on MCPS. Most of my neighbors went parochial. For every one of our children that left the system, I'm sure they were replaced by children in the neighboring apartment complex. Enrollment is certainly going up, but at least where I'm from, middle class participation is on the decline. That may not be the case in the green zone, but things are getting bad enough in certain parts of the red zone. I may not have hard data, but I've seen it in action. MCPS turns a blind eye to this trend. Caring about what will bring middle class families back to declining red zone schools should be part of their plan, but it's not. I think MCPS has lost its way.

I keep saying this but feel like it falls on deaf ears. How is MCPS so clueless? The middle class is always the key to stability. The economy is most problematic when the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. MCPS seems to be playing along with this. Resources should be allocated to children who need it. However, when MCPS policy ignores the hard working kid who is doing well, they have changed the pace of learning. This new grading system doesn't help any either. When these kids in the middle (or upper middle) slow down to wait for those who are struggling, they either adopt a consistently lower standard or most likely - their family finds some way to get them out of that environment. The rest of the school suffers because these kids are the backbone of the school. These are kids who have the ability and the resources to do well but still need some attention from MCPS to do so. The highly gifted are swept away and the struggling kids get extra help. The middle are ignored and sink to the bottom or find a way out. Everyone loses with this new trend.

I agree with this. We wanted to like MCPS but the closer we looked the less we liked. So, in addition to paying a lot of taxes to support public schools (which I don't mind doing), we're paying tuition (albeit affordable). I think this system is living off of its reputation from the past 20 years and is in no hurry to change even though it must.

Another poster in agreement with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's so strange to me that parents in high income schools would have a problem with a relatively small percentage of kids from a "poorer" area attending their school. No one is really going to flee Bethesda because a small percentage of the school population comes from outside Bethesda. Anyway, the reality at these poorer schools is that there is a decent amount of children from educated, upper middle class families who are zoned for those schools, but who attend private/parochial instead. So in a busing scenario based on school zones, I'm willing to bet there would be a fair amount of middle class kids included. Besides the fact that the perception that kids from low income families are somehow automatically trouble makers or a drain on resources is kind of bs. I think the problem is the critical mass of low income kids at some schools and high income kids at other schools. All to protect inflated property values? Everyone benefits from diversity.

I'm guessing you haven't experienced the outrage when somebody proposes putting "workforce housing" in a Bethesda/Potomac neighborhood.

No, I'm one of those upper-middle class Wheaton residents

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

No, I'm one of those upper-middle class Wheaton residents

Good for you! Wheaton HS is a W school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No, I'm one of those upper-middle class Wheaton residents

Good for you! Wheaton HS is a W school.

Rather than busing, they could use the Purple Line to transport students from east to west. I think the collective brain of Bethesda would explode!

[Anonymous]

I like that idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Right - I am among the countless middle class families that finally gave up on MCPS. Most of my neighbors went parochial. For every one of our children that left the system, I'm sure they were replaced by children in the neighboring apartment complex. Enrollment is certainly going up, but at least where I'm from, middle class participation is on the decline. That may not be the case in the green zone, but things are getting bad enough in certain parts of the red zone. I may not have hard data, but I've seen it in action. MCPS turns a blind eye to this trend. Caring about what will bring middle class families back to declining red zone schools should be part of their plan, but it's not. I think MCPS has lost its way.

I keep saying this but feel like it falls on deaf ears. How is MCPS so clueless? The middle class is always the key to stability. The economy is most problematic when the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. MCPS seems to be playing along with this. Resources should be allocated to children who need it. However, when MCPS policy ignores the hard working kid who is doing well, they have changed the pace of learning. This new grading system doesn't help any either. When these kids in the middle (or upper middle) slow down to wait for those who are struggling, they either adopt a consistently lower standard or most likely - their family finds some way to get them out of that environment. The rest of the school suffers because these kids are the backbone of the school. These are kids who have the ability and the resources to do well but still need some attention from MCPS to do so. The highly gifted are swept away and the struggling kids get extra help. The middle are ignored and sink to the bottom or find a way out. Everyone loses with this new trend.

I agree with this. We wanted to like MCPS but the closer we looked the less we liked. So, in addition to paying a lot of taxes to support public schools (which I don't mind doing), we're paying tuition (albeit affordable). I think this system is living off of its reputation from the past 20 years and is in no hurry to change even though it must.

Another poster in agreement with this.



Gotta agree. The more time we spent in a DCC school the less we liked MCPS and the administrators that seem to be kind of kicked off into the DCC. The way admins assume that you must be uninformed or lacking in education to live in the DCC was the last straw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Right - I am among the countless middle class families that finally gave up on MCPS. Most of my neighbors went parochial. For every one of our children that left the system, I'm sure they were replaced by children in the neighboring apartment complex. Enrollment is certainly going up, but at least where I'm from, middle class participation is on the decline. That may not be the case in the green zone, but things are getting bad enough in certain parts of the red zone. I may not have hard data, but I've seen it in action. MCPS turns a blind eye to this trend. Caring about what will bring middle class families back to declining red zone schools should be part of their plan, but it's not. I think MCPS has lost its way.

I keep saying this but feel like it falls on deaf ears. How is MCPS so clueless? The middle class is always the key to stability. The economy is most problematic when the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. MCPS seems to be playing along with this. Resources should be allocated to children who need it. However, when MCPS policy ignores the hard working kid who is doing well, they have changed the pace of learning. This new grading system doesn't help any either. When these kids in the middle (or upper middle) slow down to wait for those who are struggling, they either adopt a consistently lower standard or most likely - their family finds some way to get them out of that environment. The rest of the school suffers because these kids are the backbone of the school. These are kids who have the ability and the resources to do well but still need some attention from MCPS to do so. The highly gifted are swept away and the struggling kids get extra help. The middle are ignored and sink to the bottom or find a way out. Everyone loses with this new trend.

I agree with this. We wanted to like MCPS but the closer we looked the less we liked. So, in addition to paying a lot of taxes to support public schools (which I don't mind doing), we're paying tuition (albeit affordable). I think this system is living off of its reputation from the past 20 years and is in no hurry to change even though it must.

Another poster in agreement with this.

Gotta agree. The more time we spent in a DCC school the less we liked MCPS and the administrators that seem to be kind of kicked off into the DCC. The way admins assume that you must be uninformed or lacking in education to live in the DCC was the last straw.


Amazing how widely varied experiences in DCC can be! It is also such a huge cluster of schools so it is so hard to generalize to DCC what might be one school or one parent/admin interaction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Right - I am among the countless middle class families that finally gave up on MCPS. Most of my neighbors went parochial. For every one of our children that left the system, I'm sure they were replaced by children in the neighboring apartment complex. Enrollment is certainly going up, but at least where I'm from, middle class participation is on the decline. That may not be the case in the green zone, but things are getting bad enough in certain parts of the red zone. I may not have hard data, but I've seen it in action. MCPS turns a blind eye to this trend. Caring about what will bring middle class families back to declining red zone schools should be part of their plan, but it's not. I think MCPS has lost its way.

I keep saying this but feel like it falls on deaf ears. How is MCPS so clueless? The middle class is always the key to stability. The economy is most problematic when the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. MCPS seems to be playing along with this. Resources should be allocated to children who need it. However, when MCPS policy ignores the hard working kid who is doing well, they have changed the pace of learning. This new grading system doesn't help any either. When these kids in the middle (or upper middle) slow down to wait for those who are struggling, they either adopt a consistently lower standard or most likely - their family finds some way to get them out of that environment. The rest of the school suffers because these kids are the backbone of the school. These are kids who have the ability and the resources to do well but still need some attention from MCPS to do so. The highly gifted are swept away and the struggling kids get extra help. The middle are ignored and sink to the bottom or find a way out. Everyone loses with this new trend.

I agree with this. We wanted to like MCPS but the closer we looked the less we liked. So, in addition to paying a lot of taxes to support public schools (which I don't mind doing), we're paying tuition (albeit affordable). I think this system is living off of its reputation from the past 20 years and is in no hurry to change even though it must.

Another poster in agreement with this.

Gotta agree. The more time we spent in a DCC school the less we liked MCPS and the administrators that seem to be kind of kicked off into the DCC. The way admins assume that you must be uninformed or lacking in education to live in the DCC was the last straw.

Amazing how widely varied experiences in DCC can be! It is also such a huge cluster of schools so it is so hard to generalize to DCC what might be one school or one parent/admin interaction.

Nice save effort. Reading the County Council report on the gap. Accurate generalization: DCC = schools experiencing middle class flight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Right - I am among the countless middle class families that finally gave up on MCPS. Most of my neighbors went parochial. For every one of our children that left the system, I'm sure they were replaced by children in the neighboring apartment complex. Enrollment is certainly going up, but at least where I'm from, middle class participation is on the decline. That may not be the case in the green zone, but things are getting bad enough in certain parts of the red zone. I may not have hard data, but I've seen it in action. MCPS turns a blind eye to this trend. Caring about what will bring middle class families back to declining red zone schools should be part of their plan, but it's not. I think MCPS has lost its way.

I keep saying this but feel like it falls on deaf ears. How is MCPS so clueless? The middle class is always the key to stability. The economy is most problematic when the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. MCPS seems to be playing along with this. Resources should be allocated to children who need it. However, when MCPS policy ignores the hard working kid who is doing well, they have changed the pace of learning. This new grading system doesn't help any either. When these kids in the middle (or upper middle) slow down to wait for those who are struggling, they either adopt a consistently lower standard or most likely - their family finds some way to get them out of that environment. The rest of the school suffers because these kids are the backbone of the school. These are kids who have the ability and the resources to do well but still need some attention from MCPS to do so. The highly gifted are swept away and the struggling kids get extra help. The middle are ignored and sink to the bottom or find a way out. Everyone loses with this new trend.

I agree with this. We wanted to like MCPS but the closer we looked the less we liked. So, in addition to paying a lot of taxes to support public schools (which I don't mind doing), we're paying tuition (albeit affordable). I think this system is living off of its reputation from the past 20 years and is in no hurry to change even though it must.

Another poster in agreement with this.

Gotta agree. The more time we spent in a DCC school the less we liked MCPS and the administrators that seem to be kind of kicked off into the DCC. The way admins assume that you must be uninformed or lacking in education to live in the DCC was the last straw.

Amazing how widely varied experiences in DCC can be! It is also such a huge cluster of schools so it is so hard to generalize to DCC what might be one school or one parent/admin interaction.

Nice save effort. Reading the County Council report on the gap. Accurate generalization: DCC = schools experiencing middle class flight.

Wow I must mention that to all those young families that bought and moved into my SS neighborhood in the last few months. And the one on the other side of Colesville rd. Do you realize that if you pull data their is a white flight from all mcps schools. The 2% population change can me attributed to flight from DCC AND so much more

[Anonymous]

So let me get this straight.

Many DCUM-ers, especially those in green zone schools are outraged that 2.0 is focusing on closing the achievement gap and not pushing the best and brightest ahead - and hence the fleeing to private, parochial, heavily tutoring and/or HOCO!

The people in school districts where the closing the gap would have the most impact, if given a chance to roll out fully and implement, are fleeing prematurely to take the place of the earlier group that fled their supposedly better schools.

Insanity

[Anonymous]

Income disparity leads to achievement disparity. Check out the thread on tutoring of mcps students