Midwife charged in DC? Karen Carr, CPM...

Anonymous
Poetic = posting
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Because the Dutch system is one of the few that is midwife led -- low risk women are presumed to see midwives, and only women who are determined to be high-risk by midwives get to see OBs.

What I think this issue shows is that a number of women who appear to be low risk on the surface are actually high risk and that the system for working out risk needs to be more effective. Or, perhaps, the training of Dutch midwives (which is light years beyond that of CPMs like Karen Carr) needs to be improved.


I read the Dutch study a few months ago, and as I recall, two things jumped out at me: (1) the midwives are not typically with the women throughout labor, and often are only checking fetal heart tones every 2-4 hours, which is very different from how midwives here practice; (2) their concept of low-risk and high-risk seemed pretty rigid ... i.e., it seems as though they are slow to see complications arising in a low-risk woman because of her low-risk status. Also very different from how things are handled here. Those two things could certainly explain the difference in perinatal mortality. I don't think that training is the issue, necessarily -- it sounded to me like it was more about attitude, things being more lackadaisical there.
Anonymous
So everyone is talking. There is a Facebook link to donate money and a blog where one can donate money to help the lay midwife's defense. Dr.Momma blogger has called upon all the homebirthers to describe the joy in their butterfly-ridden-and-rain-softly-falling-upon-the-outdoor-birthpool-during-the-druid-chants experience. But no one can point to one media report or one hard fact or even the city this occurred in? I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but is it possible this is all made up? Personally, it seems like a matter of time until a lay midwife kills a child, but why is there not one hard fact about the circumstances? A date? A city? The name of a court this is filed in? She faces trial in June, but there is no record of it anywhere? Sorry, I'm not buying this.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:So everyone is talking. There is a Facebook link to donate money and a blog where one can donate money to help the lay midwife's defense. Dr.Momma blogger has called upon all the homebirthers to describe the joy in their butterfly-ridden-and-rain-softly-falling-upon-the-outdoor-birthpool-during-the-druid-chants experience. But no one can point to one media report or one hard fact or even the city this occurred in? I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but is it possible this is all made up? Personally, it seems like a matter of time until a lay midwife kills a child, but why is there not one hard fact about the circumstances? A date? A city? The name of a court this is filed in? She faces trial in June, but there is no record of it anywhere? Sorry, I'm not buying this.


Have you been reading the thread? Several of us have found the court records online. It's not that hard. Go back a few pages and find the link, whacko.
Anonymous
Not the conspiracy theorist PP, but I note that there appear to be two cases against Ms. Carr. One is for involuntary manslaughter, and the other is for causing cruelty and injuring a child. I don't have access to the actual indictments because I am not a paid subscriber to the Alexandria court sites. Do these cases arise out of the same incident? They have different trial dates.
Anonymous
I can't believe all of the nuts who have come out of the woodwork! All of these experts who know what is best and how we should all go to hospitals instead of listening to our Vags. In March a lovely midwife was charged with manslaughter in North Carolina because of a dead child. Now, Karen, who is the closest thing to Jesus Christ and Mohammad that I have ever met, is being cruelly and harshly punished just because a child died. Think of all the children she has helped birth. My own DS was born on the summer solstice outside in a birth pool and lulled with crickets. I think the saddest thing to come out of this whole story is this unjust prosecution. Karen Carr is the real victim in this whole scenario. I think the mother of that kid should just go grieve privately and not drag Karen into this.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I can't believe all of the nuts who have come out of the woodwork! All of these experts who know what is best and how we should all go to hospitals instead of listening to our Vags. In March a lovely midwife was charged with manslaughter in North Carolina because of a dead child. Now, Karen, who is the closest thing to Jesus Christ and Mohammad that I have ever met, is being cruelly and harshly punished just because a child died. Think of all the children she has helped birth. My own DS was born on the summer solstice outside in a birth pool and lulled with crickets. I think the saddest thing to come out of this whole story is this unjust prosecution. Karen Carr is the real victim in this whole scenario. I think the mother of that kid should just go grieve privately and not drag Karen into this.


Check your facts. The parents are not suing Karen. The city of Alexandria is charging her.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Not the conspiracy theorist PP, but I note that there appear to be two cases against Ms. Carr. One is for involuntary manslaughter, and the other is for causing cruelty and injuring a child. I don't have access to the actual indictments because I am not a paid subscriber to the Alexandria court sites. Do these cases arise out of the same incident? They have different trial dates.


Can't say for sure without seeing the actual indictments, but I wouldn't be surprised if they threw multiple charges at her in hopes of getting something to stick.
Anonymous
There are two charges, although I do see that the causing cruelty & injury to a child charge has a date of 4/21 listed, not the same as the trial date of 6/7-6/9 for the involuntary manslaughter charge. However, the "offense date" is the same -- 9/11/10 -- so almost certainly the same incident. Yes, conspiracy theorist, this is a real criminal case initiated by the state. Commonwealth of Virginia v. Karen Carr, file no. CF 11001066, initiated 3/14/11. Arrest took place on 3/21, bond filed two days later. The Alexandria court system charges like $300 a year for a subscription to their online pleadings database. My DH's firm sometimes practices there but they do not purchase the subscription to the online pleadings so I was only able to look at the docket sheet and the charges page, which are available without the subscription. That is where the above information came from.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Not the conspiracy theorist PP, but I note that there appear to be two cases against Ms. Carr. One is for involuntary manslaughter, and the other is for causing cruelty and injuring a child. I don't have access to the actual indictments because I am not a paid subscriber to the Alexandria court sites. Do these cases arise out of the same incident? They have different trial dates.


Can't say for sure without seeing the actual indictments, but I wouldn't be surprised if they threw multiple charges at her in hopes of getting something to stick.


Yes, they are from the same incident.
Anonymous
I heard about this site and just read through all 25 pages (!!!) of comments. There is some good provocative and thoughtful discussion for the most part. There was a web site listed way back that made a claim that someone who obtains a "Certified Professional Midwife" certificate gets it from NARM, which operates its applications center from a "mobile home on a Tennessee commune." Is this for real? Is that accurate?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I heard about this site and just read through all 25 pages (!!!) of comments. There is some good provocative and thoughtful discussion for the most part. There was a web site listed way back that made a claim that someone who obtains a "Certified Professional Midwife" certificate gets it from NARM, which operates its applications center from a "mobile home on a Tennessee commune." Is this for real? Is that accurate?


I haven't bothered to look into any of the claims from that website and it's obviously an anti-midwife propaganda site. Not worth the time.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I heard about this site and just read through all 25 pages (!!!) of comments. There is some good provocative and thoughtful discussion for the most part. There was a web site listed way back that made a claim that someone who obtains a "Certified Professional Midwife" certificate gets it from NARM, which operates its applications center from a "mobile home on a Tennessee commune." Is this for real? Is that accurate?


You are on the Internet right now so I assume you know how to use it. Why not try to do your own research on what it means to be a CPM?

Here is the website for NARM:
http://narm.org/

It is not just "obtaining a certificate." It is close to 10 years of study, training, apprenticeship, and you have to sit for a tough exam. No different than the study done by a RN or NP, and we can all trust them, right?
Anonymous
...a "Certified Professional Midwife" certificate gets it from NARM, which operates its applications center from a "mobile home on a Tennessee commune." Is this for real? Is that accurate?

What? You haven't heard of that site of homebirther pilgrimmage -- the Farm and Ina May Gaskin (who, as we are reminded repeatedly, is the only midwife to have a manuever named after her)?

Anonymous
Here is the clinical training requirements to become a CPM per NARM's website:

I. As an active participant, the applicant must attend a
minimum of 20 births.

II. Functioning in the role of primary midwife under
supervision, the applicant must attend a minimum of an
additional 20 births:

A. A minimum of ten of the 20 births attended as
primary under supervision must be in homes or other
out-of-hospital settings; and

B. A minimum of three of the 20 births attended as
primary under supervision must be with women for
whom the applicant has provided primary care during
at least four prenatal visits, birth, newborn exam and
one postpartum exam.

C. At least ten of the 20 primary births must have
occurred within three years of application submission.

III. Functioning in the role of primary midwife under
supervision, the applicant must document:
A. 75 prenatal exams, including 20 initial exams;
B. 20 newborn exams; and
C. 40 postpartum exams.
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