APS DHMS walk zone nuclear option

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh look. We should have done a Rosslyn MS after all.

+1

Why do people keep talking about a Rosslyn middle school? How would have helped this situation? Truly don’t understand the point.

Not sure because the kids who live near Hamm would have been bused there, so I am not sure how that would have been better for them than busing to WMS. Some ppl just like to complain. And also they don't get it.

The PP who say we should have built at Rosslyn are NOT current Hamm/Taylor parents, that was clear from other parts of the post.

I just don’t see why anyone is lamenting that option, unless they mean abolish HBW so that middle schools would have more capacity (1100 sear Hamm, 1100 seat Heights), but no Taylor/Hamm parent would consider that? So really confused who is advocating for Rosslyn?

One take away I have from the Rosslyn point is that APS staff planners are really terrible. How could they locate a “neighborhood” MS so far away from the needed seats? That is, they justified spending millions on building DHMS as a neighborhood school and just in a heartbeat APS is now saying, woops, we don’t need those seats there.

Same argument re: Cardinal/closing Nottingham.

Bottom line for me is they are wholly incompetent and so parents should fight for what they want. This is not a do what’s best for the system when it’s comes to your own children/family. And that’s Ok.

They need seats in S Arlington, so neither site was a fix

Right, we get it. But, the argument is the Rosslyn is a heck of a lot closer to where the needed seats are than the leafy SFH neighborhood off Lorcom. It’s moot, though, because APS made its bed and now it has to lie in it.

Rosslyn is closer to Gunston than DHMS?

More or less, but it depends where the population distribution is within the Gunston/Kenmore /Jefferson zones.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/04/Map_Middle_School_2022_23-1.pdf

Probably what should have been done is to expand HBW when they had the new site. If they had expanded to the 1100 seats as originally planned for a neighborhood school, HBW would have provided 150 more middle school seats and 250 more high school seats. As an option program, anyone who didn't like the facilities would be welcome to head back to their home school.

I know HBW claims "small school" is part of its pedagogy, but that's a luxury we can ill afford in our urban out of space district. I thought it was supposed to be about independence and self direction?

Independence and self direction don't work in a huge school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh look. We should have done a Rosslyn MS after all.

+1

Why do people keep talking about a Rosslyn middle school? How would have helped this situation? Truly don’t understand the point.

Not sure because the kids who live near Hamm would have been bused there, so I am not sure how that would have been better for them than busing to WMS. Some ppl just like to complain. And also they don't get it.

The PP who say we should have built at Rosslyn are NOT current Hamm/Taylor parents, that was clear from other parts of the post.

I just don’t see why anyone is lamenting that option, unless they mean abolish HBW so that middle schools would have more capacity (1100 sear Hamm, 1100 seat Heights), but no Taylor/Hamm parent would consider that? So really confused who is advocating for Rosslyn?

One take away I have from the Rosslyn point is that APS staff planners are really terrible. How could they locate a “neighborhood” MS so far away from the needed seats? That is, they justified spending millions on building DHMS as a neighborhood school and just in a heartbeat APS is now saying, woops, we don’t need those seats there.

Same argument re: Cardinal/closing Nottingham.

Bottom line for me is they are wholly incompetent and so parents should fight for what they want. This is not a do what’s best for the system when it’s comes to your own children/family. And that’s Ok.

NOPE! It was the local community that wanted its "walkable" middle school and insisted on the Stratford site becoming the neighborhood middle school. Per usual, APS gave in.

Community didn’t care if it was walkable; they just didn’t want the ridiculous dreg of land that is the heights site for 1100 students. I know people who could walk to the Heights who wanted the Hamm site because the whole “warehouse” model was obscene.

That's fine, in fact I get it. Just don't complain now about what you got.

They aren’t complaining! Quite the opposite - current Hamm families love the school and want to stay. That is what they are advocating for.

They are complaining about the very foreseeable results of putting two middle schools too close to each other. Which is exactly what they wanted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh look. We should have done a Rosslyn MS after all.

+1

Why do people keep talking about a Rosslyn middle school? How would have helped this situation? Truly don’t understand the point.

Not sure because the kids who live near Hamm would have been bused there, so I am not sure how that would have been better for them than busing to WMS. Some ppl just like to complain. And also they don't get it.

The PP who say we should have built at Rosslyn are NOT current Hamm/Taylor parents, that was clear from other parts of the post.

I just don’t see why anyone is lamenting that option, unless they mean abolish HBW so that middle schools would have more capacity (1100 sear Hamm, 1100 seat Heights), but no Taylor/Hamm parent would consider that? So really confused who is advocating for Rosslyn?

One take away I have from the Rosslyn point is that APS staff planners are really terrible. How could they locate a “neighborhood” MS so far away from the needed seats? That is, they justified spending millions on building DHMS as a neighborhood school and just in a heartbeat APS is now saying, woops, we don’t need those seats there.

Same argument re: Cardinal/closing Nottingham.

Bottom line for me is they are wholly incompetent and so parents should fight for what they want. This is not a do what’s best for the system when it’s comes to your own children/family. And that’s Ok.

NOPE! It was the local community that wanted its "walkable" middle school and insisted on the Stratford site becoming the neighborhood middle school. Per usual, APS gave in.

Community didn’t care if it was walkable; they just didn’t want the ridiculous dreg of land that is the heights site for 1100 students. I know people who could walk to the Heights who wanted the Hamm site because the whole “warehouse” model was obscene.

That's fine, in fact I get it. Just don't complain now about what you got.

They aren’t complaining! Quite the opposite - current Hamm families love the school and want to stay. That is what they are advocating for.

Someone is saying the Hamm families now want the HB Shriver building.

Not at all. Someone is misreading, misunderstanding or intentionally misrepresenting Taylor parents’ advocacy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh look. We should have done a Rosslyn MS after all.

+1

Why do people keep talking about a Rosslyn middle school? How would have helped this situation? Truly don’t understand the point.

Not sure because the kids who live near Hamm would have been bused there, so I am not sure how that would have been better for them than busing to WMS. Some ppl just like to complain. And also they don't get it.

The PP who say we should have built at Rosslyn are NOT current Hamm/Taylor parents, that was clear from other parts of the post.

I just don’t see why anyone is lamenting that option, unless they mean abolish HBW so that middle schools would have more capacity (1100 sear Hamm, 1100 seat Heights), but no Taylor/Hamm parent would consider that? So really confused who is advocating for Rosslyn?

One take away I have from the Rosslyn point is that APS staff planners are really terrible. How could they locate a “neighborhood” MS so far away from the needed seats? That is, they justified spending millions on building DHMS as a neighborhood school and just in a heartbeat APS is now saying, woops, we don’t need those seats there.

Same argument re: Cardinal/closing Nottingham.

Bottom line for me is they are wholly incompetent and so parents should fight for what they want. This is not a do what’s best for the system when it’s comes to your own children/family. And that’s Ok.

Bottom line for me is you're a selfish, opportunity-hoarding NArl elite who should be ignored as APS does the right thing for the system. So tired of snobs in the north claiming anything except more for themselves is somehow incompetent. Real incompetence is continuing to bow to NArl neighborhoods over the whole county.

Not the PP, but why should anyone believe that NOW is the time that APS is getting it right when they’ve gotten it so very wrong every other time before when it comes to ES and MS locations/boundaries? Color me skeptical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh look. We should have done a Rosslyn MS after all.

+1

Why do people keep talking about a Rosslyn middle school? How would have helped this situation? Truly don’t understand the point.

Not sure because the kids who live near Hamm would have been bused there, so I am not sure how that would have been better for them than busing to WMS. Some ppl just like to complain. And also they don't get it.

The PP who say we should have built at Rosslyn are NOT current Hamm/Taylor parents, that was clear from other parts of the post.

I just don’t see why anyone is lamenting that option, unless they mean abolish HBW so that middle schools would have more capacity (1100 sear Hamm, 1100 seat Heights), but no Taylor/Hamm parent would consider that? So really confused who is advocating for Rosslyn?

One take away I have from the Rosslyn point is that APS staff planners are really terrible. How could they locate a “neighborhood” MS so far away from the needed seats? That is, they justified spending millions on building DHMS as a neighborhood school and just in a heartbeat APS is now saying, woops, we don’t need those seats there.

Same argument re: Cardinal/closing Nottingham.

Bottom line for me is they are wholly incompetent and so parents should fight for what they want. This is not a do what’s best for the system when it’s comes to your own children/family. And that’s Ok.

They need seats in S Arlington, so neither site was a fix

Right, we get it. But, the argument is the Rosslyn is a heck of a lot closer to where the needed seats are than the leafy SFH neighborhood off Lorcom. It’s moot, though, because APS made its bed and now it has to lie in it.

Rosslyn is closer to Gunston than DHMS?

More or less, but it depends where the population distribution is within the Gunston/Kenmore /Jefferson zones.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/04/Map_Middle_School_2022_23-1.pdf

Probably what should have been done is to expand HBW when they had the new site. If they had expanded to the 1100 seats as originally planned for a neighborhood school, HBW would have provided 150 more middle school seats and 250 more high school seats. As an option program, anyone who didn't like the facilities would be welcome to head back to their home school.

I know HBW claims "small school" is part of its pedagogy, but that's a luxury we can ill afford in our urban out of space district. I thought it was supposed to be about independence and self direction?

Independence and self direction don't work in a huge school.

Why in the world not? That’s essentially college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh look. We should have done a Rosslyn MS after all.

+1

Why do people keep talking about a Rosslyn middle school? How would have helped this situation? Truly don’t understand the point.

Not sure because the kids who live near Hamm would have been bused there, so I am not sure how that would have been better for them than busing to WMS. Some ppl just like to complain. And also they don't get it.

The PP who say we should have built at Rosslyn are NOT current Hamm/Taylor parents, that was clear from other parts of the post.

I just don’t see why anyone is lamenting that option, unless they mean abolish HBW so that middle schools would have more capacity (1100 sear Hamm, 1100 seat Heights), but no Taylor/Hamm parent would consider that? So really confused who is advocating for Rosslyn?

One take away I have from the Rosslyn point is that APS staff planners are really terrible. How could they locate a “neighborhood” MS so far away from the needed seats? That is, they justified spending millions on building DHMS as a neighborhood school and just in a heartbeat APS is now saying, woops, we don’t need those seats there.

Same argument re: Cardinal/closing Nottingham.

Bottom line for me is they are wholly incompetent and so parents should fight for what they want. This is not a do what’s best for the system when it’s comes to your own children/family. And that’s Ok.

NOPE! It was the local community that wanted its "walkable" middle school and insisted on the Stratford site becoming the neighborhood middle school. Per usual, APS gave in.

Community didn’t care if it was walkable; they just didn’t want the ridiculous dreg of land that is the heights site for 1100 students. I know people who could walk to the Heights who wanted the Hamm site because the whole “warehouse” model was obscene.

That's fine, in fact I get it. Just don't complain now about what you got.

They aren’t complaining! Quite the opposite - current Hamm families love the school and want to stay. That is what they are advocating for.

They are complaining about the very foreseeable results of putting two middle schools too close to each other. Which is exactly what they wanted.

If they had Hamm in Rosslyn, we would have the same exact disruption and split schools all the same — just wouldn’t have the added advantage of walkability

There aren’t any middle schools living in Rosslyn — they ALL have to be bused. No idea how that would have addressed any of current challenges?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh look. We should have done a Rosslyn MS after all.

+1

Why do people keep talking about a Rosslyn middle school? How would have helped this situation? Truly don’t understand the point.

Not sure because the kids who live near Hamm would have been bused there, so I am not sure how that would have been better for them than busing to WMS. Some ppl just like to complain. And also they don't get it.

The PP who say we should have built at Rosslyn are NOT current Hamm/Taylor parents, that was clear from other parts of the post.

I just don’t see why anyone is lamenting that option, unless they mean abolish HBW so that middle schools would have more capacity (1100 sear Hamm, 1100 seat Heights), but no Taylor/Hamm parent would consider that? So really confused who is advocating for Rosslyn?

One take away I have from the Rosslyn point is that APS staff planners are really terrible. How could they locate a “neighborhood” MS so far away from the needed seats? That is, they justified spending millions on building DHMS as a neighborhood school and just in a heartbeat APS is now saying, woops, we don’t need those seats there.

Same argument re: Cardinal/closing Nottingham.

Bottom line for me is they are wholly incompetent and so parents should fight for what they want. This is not a do what’s best for the system when it’s comes to your own children/family. And that’s Ok.

NOPE! It was the local community that wanted its "walkable" middle school and insisted on the Stratford site becoming the neighborhood middle school. Per usual, APS gave in.

Community didn’t care if it was walkable; they just didn’t want the ridiculous dreg of land that is the heights site for 1100 students. I know people who could walk to the Heights who wanted the Hamm site because the whole “warehouse” model was obscene.

That's fine, in fact I get it. Just don't complain now about what you got.

They aren’t complaining! Quite the opposite - current Hamm families love the school and want to stay. That is what they are advocating for.

They are complaining about the very foreseeable results of putting two middle schools too close to each other. Which is exactly what they wanted.

If they had Hamm in Rosslyn, we would have the same exact disruption and split schools all the same — just wouldn’t have the added advantage of walkability

There aren’t any middle schools living in Rosslyn — they ALL have to be bused. No idea how that would have addressed any of current challenges?

I think you're saying there are no middle schoolers living in the Heights walkzone - that's not true. The walkzone includes all Innovation zone and some of ASFS. If you filter the latest Planning Unit Level Data document they released this summer for Innovation it shows there are 209 students attending the planning unit middle school (ie Hamm). If you then filter for ASFS and then filter further for Lyon Village and Clarendon/Courthouse you find another 119 students for a total of approximately 328 potential walkzone students.

It's a moot point because the building is not and probably should not become neighborhood because of the way it's built, but saying there are no walkable students is 100% false.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh look. We should have done a Rosslyn MS after all.

+1

Why do people keep talking about a Rosslyn middle school? How would have helped this situation? Truly don’t understand the point.

Not sure because the kids who live near Hamm would have been bused there, so I am not sure how that would have been better for them than busing to WMS. Some ppl just like to complain. And also they don't get it.

The PP who say we should have built at Rosslyn are NOT current Hamm/Taylor parents, that was clear from other parts of the post.

I just don’t see why anyone is lamenting that option, unless they mean abolish HBW so that middle schools would have more capacity (1100 sear Hamm, 1100 seat Heights), but no Taylor/Hamm parent would consider that? So really confused who is advocating for Rosslyn?

One take away I have from the Rosslyn point is that APS staff planners are really terrible. How could they locate a “neighborhood” MS so far away from the needed seats? That is, they justified spending millions on building DHMS as a neighborhood school and just in a heartbeat APS is now saying, woops, we don’t need those seats there.

Same argument re: Cardinal/closing Nottingham.

Bottom line for me is they are wholly incompetent and so parents should fight for what they want. This is not a do what’s best for the system when it’s comes to your own children/family. And that’s Ok.

They need seats in S Arlington, so neither site was a fix

Right, we get it. But, the argument is the Rosslyn is a heck of a lot closer to where the needed seats are than the leafy SFH neighborhood off Lorcom. It’s moot, though, because APS made its bed and now it has to lie in it.

Rosslyn is closer to Gunston than DHMS?

More or less, but it depends where the population distribution is within the Gunston/Kenmore /Jefferson zones.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/04/Map_Middle_School_2022_23-1.pdf

Probably what should have been done is to expand HBW when they had the new site. If they had expanded to the 1100 seats as originally planned for a neighborhood school, HBW would have provided 150 more middle school seats and 250 more high school seats. As an option program, anyone who didn't like the facilities would be welcome to head back to their home school.

I know HBW claims "small school" is part of its pedagogy, but that's a luxury we can ill afford in our urban out of space district. I thought it was supposed to be about independence and self direction?

Independence and self direction don't work in a huge school.

Why in the world not? That’s essentially college.

Adults go to college. Children in middle and high school go to HB. See the difference?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh look. We should have done a Rosslyn MS after all.

+1

Why do people keep talking about a Rosslyn middle school? How would have helped this situation? Truly don’t understand the point.

Not sure because the kids who live near Hamm would have been bused there, so I am not sure how that would have been better for them than busing to WMS. Some ppl just like to complain. And also they don't get it.

The PP who say we should have built at Rosslyn are NOT current Hamm/Taylor parents, that was clear from other parts of the post.

I just don’t see why anyone is lamenting that option, unless they mean abolish HBW so that middle schools would have more capacity (1100 sear Hamm, 1100 seat Heights), but no Taylor/Hamm parent would consider that? So really confused who is advocating for Rosslyn?

One take away I have from the Rosslyn point is that APS staff planners are really terrible. How could they locate a “neighborhood” MS so far away from the needed seats? That is, they justified spending millions on building DHMS as a neighborhood school and just in a heartbeat APS is now saying, woops, we don’t need those seats there.

Same argument re: Cardinal/closing Nottingham.

Bottom line for me is they are wholly incompetent and so parents should fight for what they want. This is not a do what’s best for the system when it’s comes to your own children/family. And that’s Ok.

NOPE! It was the local community that wanted its "walkable" middle school and insisted on the Stratford site becoming the neighborhood middle school. Per usual, APS gave in.

Community didn’t care if it was walkable; they just didn’t want the ridiculous dreg of land that is the heights site for 1100 students. I know people who could walk to the Heights who wanted the Hamm site because the whole “warehouse” model was obscene.

That's fine, in fact I get it. Just don't complain now about what you got.

They aren’t complaining! Quite the opposite - current Hamm families love the school and want to stay. That is what they are advocating for.

They are complaining about the very foreseeable results of putting two middle schools too close to each other. Which is exactly what they wanted.

If they had Hamm in Rosslyn, we would have the same exact disruption and split schools all the same — just wouldn’t have the added advantage of walkability

There aren’t any middle schools living in Rosslyn — they ALL have to be bused. No idea how that would have addressed any of current challenges?

I think you're saying there are no middle schoolers living in the Heights walkzone - that's not true. The walkzone includes all Innovation zone and some of ASFS. If you filter the latest Planning Unit Level Data document they released this summer for Innovation it shows there are 209 students attending the planning unit middle school (ie Hamm). If you then filter for ASFS and then filter further for Lyon Village and Clarendon/Courthouse you find another 119 students for a total of approximately 328 potential walkzone students.

It's a moot point because the building is not and probably should not become neighborhood because of the way it's built, but saying there are no walkable students is 100% false.

There is no way that the Heights would work for a neighborhood middle school. We covered that pages ago. I am not sure the site could even have even worked even ore building but it certainly won’t work now as it’s built. It’s a cool building but it has its challenges and Taylor parents would revolt. Also you don’t just kick out the HB and Shrivet kids every few years ad whims change. They had to move once from their longtime home. That’s enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh look. We should have done a Rosslyn MS after all.

+1

Why do people keep talking about a Rosslyn middle school? How would have helped this situation? Truly don’t understand the point.

Not sure because the kids who live near Hamm would have been bused there, so I am not sure how that would have been better for them than busing to WMS. Some ppl just like to complain. And also they don't get it.

The PP who say we should have built at Rosslyn are NOT current Hamm/Taylor parents, that was clear from other parts of the post.

I just don’t see why anyone is lamenting that option, unless they mean abolish HBW so that middle schools would have more capacity (1100 sear Hamm, 1100 seat Heights), but no Taylor/Hamm parent would consider that? So really confused who is advocating for Rosslyn?

One take away I have from the Rosslyn point is that APS staff planners are really terrible. How could they locate a “neighborhood” MS so far away from the needed seats? That is, they justified spending millions on building DHMS as a neighborhood school and just in a heartbeat APS is now saying, woops, we don’t need those seats there.

Same argument re: Cardinal/closing Nottingham.

Bottom line for me is they are wholly incompetent and so parents should fight for what they want. This is not a do what’s best for the system when it’s comes to your own children/family. And that’s Ok.

They need seats in S Arlington, so neither site was a fix

Right, we get it. But, the argument is the Rosslyn is a heck of a lot closer to where the needed seats are than the leafy SFH neighborhood off Lorcom. It’s moot, though, because APS made its bed and now it has to lie in it.

Rosslyn is closer to Gunston than DHMS?

More or less, but it depends where the population distribution is within the Gunston/Kenmore /Jefferson zones.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/04/Map_Middle_School_2022_23-1.pdf

Probably what should have been done is to expand HBW when they had the new site. If they had expanded to the 1100 seats as originally planned for a neighborhood school, HBW would have provided 150 more middle school seats and 250 more high school seats. As an option program, anyone who didn't like the facilities would be welcome to head back to their home school.

I know HBW claims "small school" is part of its pedagogy, but that's a luxury we can ill afford in our urban out of space district. I thought it was supposed to be about independence and self direction?

Independence and self direction don't work in a huge school.

Why in the world not? That’s essentially college.

Adults go to college. Children in middle and high school go to HB. See the difference?

How convenient that HB pedagogy is need a small school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh look. We should have done a Rosslyn MS after all.

+1

Why do people keep talking about a Rosslyn middle school? How would have helped this situation? Truly don’t understand the point.

Not sure because the kids who live near Hamm would have been bused there, so I am not sure how that would have been better for them than busing to WMS. Some ppl just like to complain. And also they don't get it.

The PP who say we should have built at Rosslyn are NOT current Hamm/Taylor parents, that was clear from other parts of the post.

I just don’t see why anyone is lamenting that option, unless they mean abolish HBW so that middle schools would have more capacity (1100 sear Hamm, 1100 seat Heights), but no Taylor/Hamm parent would consider that? So really confused who is advocating for Rosslyn?

One take away I have from the Rosslyn point is that APS staff planners are really terrible. How could they locate a “neighborhood” MS so far away from the needed seats? That is, they justified spending millions on building DHMS as a neighborhood school and just in a heartbeat APS is now saying, woops, we don’t need those seats there.

Same argument re: Cardinal/closing Nottingham.

Bottom line for me is they are wholly incompetent and so parents should fight for what they want. This is not a do what’s best for the system when it’s comes to your own children/family. And that’s Ok.

They need seats in S Arlington, so neither site was a fix

Right, we get it. But, the argument is the Rosslyn is a heck of a lot closer to where the needed seats are than the leafy SFH neighborhood off Lorcom. It’s moot, though, because APS made its bed and now it has to lie in it.

Rosslyn is closer to Gunston than DHMS?

More or less, but it depends where the population distribution is within the Gunston/Kenmore /Jefferson zones.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/04/Map_Middle_School_2022_23-1.pdf

Probably what should have been done is to expand HBW when they had the new site. If they had expanded to the 1100 seats as originally planned for a neighborhood school, HBW would have provided 150 more middle school seats and 250 more high school seats. As an option program, anyone who didn't like the facilities would be welcome to head back to their home school.

I know HBW claims "small school" is part of its pedagogy, but that's a luxury we can ill afford in our urban out of space district. I thought it was supposed to be about independence and self direction?

Independence and self direction don't work in a huge school.

.

You are being sarcastic right? I mean, that is the definition of a big school. You have to be independent and you have to have self direction or you get lost. It’s the focus on you at HB as a small school, teaching you to be independent that people want, not the actual independence required at W&L and YHS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh look. We should have done a Rosslyn MS after all.

+1

Why do people keep talking about a Rosslyn middle school? How would have helped this situation? Truly don’t understand the point.

Not sure because the kids who live near Hamm would have been bused there, so I am not sure how that would have been better for them than busing to WMS. Some ppl just like to complain. And also they don't get it.

The PP who say we should have built at Rosslyn are NOT current Hamm/Taylor parents, that was clear from other parts of the post.

I just don’t see why anyone is lamenting that option, unless they mean abolish HBW so that middle schools would have more capacity (1100 sear Hamm, 1100 seat Heights), but no Taylor/Hamm parent would consider that? So really confused who is advocating for Rosslyn?

One take away I have from the Rosslyn point is that APS staff planners are really terrible. How could they locate a “neighborhood” MS so far away from the needed seats? That is, they justified spending millions on building DHMS as a neighborhood school and just in a heartbeat APS is now saying, woops, we don’t need those seats there.

Same argument re: Cardinal/closing Nottingham.

Bottom line for me is they are wholly incompetent and so parents should fight for what they want. This is not a do what’s best for the system when it’s comes to your own children/family. And that’s Ok.

NOPE! It was the local community that wanted its "walkable" middle school and insisted on the Stratford site becoming the neighborhood middle school. Per usual, APS gave in.

Community didn’t care if it was walkable; they just didn’t want the ridiculous dreg of land that is the heights site for 1100 students. I know people who could walk to the Heights who wanted the Hamm site because the whole “warehouse” model was obscene.

That's fine, in fact I get it. Just don't complain now about what you got.

They aren’t complaining! Quite the opposite - current Hamm families love the school and want to stay. That is what they are advocating for.

They are complaining about the very foreseeable results of putting two middle schools too close to each other. Which is exactly what they wanted.

If they had Hamm in Rosslyn, we would have the same exact disruption and split schools all the same — just wouldn’t have the added advantage of walkability

There aren’t any middle schools living in Rosslyn — they ALL have to be bused. No idea how that would have addressed any of current challenges?

I think you're saying there are no middle schoolers living in the Heights walkzone - that's not true. The walkzone includes all Innovation zone and some of ASFS. If you filter the latest Planning Unit Level Data document they released this summer for Innovation it shows there are 209 students attending the planning unit middle school (ie Hamm). If you then filter for ASFS and then filter further for Lyon Village and Clarendon/Courthouse you find another 119 students for a total of approximately 328 potential walkzone students.

It's a moot point because the building is not and probably should not become neighborhood because of the way it's built, but saying there are no walkable students is 100% false.

There is no way that the Heights would work for a neighborhood middle school. We covered that pages ago. I am not sure the site could even have even worked even ore building but it certainly won’t work now as it’s built. It’s a cool building but it has its challenges and Taylor parents would revolt. Also you don’t just kick out the HB and Shrivet kids every few years ad whims change. They had to move once from their longtime home. That’s enough

You realize of course that is exactly what they are proposing to do right now to the Taylor kids at DHMS? Not a winner argument.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh look. We should have done a Rosslyn MS after all.

+1

Why do people keep talking about a Rosslyn middle school? How would have helped this situation? Truly don’t understand the point.

Not sure because the kids who live near Hamm would have been bused there, so I am not sure how that would have been better for them than busing to WMS. Some ppl just like to complain. And also they don't get it.

The PP who say we should have built at Rosslyn are NOT current Hamm/Taylor parents, that was clear from other parts of the post.

I just don’t see why anyone is lamenting that option, unless they mean abolish HBW so that middle schools would have more capacity (1100 sear Hamm, 1100 seat Heights), but no Taylor/Hamm parent would consider that? So really confused who is advocating for Rosslyn?

One take away I have from the Rosslyn point is that APS staff planners are really terrible. How could they locate a “neighborhood” MS so far away from the needed seats? That is, they justified spending millions on building DHMS as a neighborhood school and just in a heartbeat APS is now saying, woops, we don’t need those seats there.

Same argument re: Cardinal/closing Nottingham.

Bottom line for me is they are wholly incompetent and so parents should fight for what they want. This is not a do what’s best for the system when it’s comes to your own children/family. And that’s Ok.

They need seats in S Arlington, so neither site was a fix

Right, we get it. But, the argument is the Rosslyn is a heck of a lot closer to where the needed seats are than the leafy SFH neighborhood off Lorcom. It’s moot, though, because APS made its bed and now it has to lie in it.

Rosslyn is closer to Gunston than DHMS?

More or less, but it depends where the population distribution is within the Gunston/Kenmore /Jefferson zones.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/04/Map_Middle_School_2022_23-1.pdf

Probably what should have been done is to expand HBW when they had the new site. If they had expanded to the 1100 seats as originally planned for a neighborhood school, HBW would have provided 150 more middle school seats and 250 more high school seats. As an option program, anyone who didn't like the facilities would be welcome to head back to their home school.

I know HBW claims "small school" is part of its pedagogy, but that's a luxury we can ill afford in our urban out of space district. I thought it was supposed to be about independence and self direction?

Independence and self direction don't work in a huge school.

Why in the world not? That’s essentially college.

Adults go to college. Children in middle and high school go to HB. See the difference?

How convenient that HB pedagogy is need a small school.

HB used to be used as an outlet for specific kinds of kids, identified by teachers and parents — but mostly teachers when parents weren’t so involved. It worked as an amazing outlet for kids who were really smart but struggled in a traditional classroom setting. And the students were sort of similar in the respect — lot of dsylexia, pot smoking, artsy types.

Unfortunately, it also meant it was really really white. And rightly APS fixed that with the lottery system. The result though is that it’s not a “type” of kid who gets sent there anymore, just parents who think smaller is better (which in education it often is). Meaning that a consistent pedagogy is really not realistic with a bunch of random HS kids with different expectations/needs/abilities. I can’t believe we still let it happen in light of the sheer numbers at the other HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh look. We should have done a Rosslyn MS after all.

+1

Why do people keep talking about a Rosslyn middle school? How would have helped this situation? Truly don’t understand the point.

Not sure because the kids who live near Hamm would have been bused there, so I am not sure how that would have been better for them than busing to WMS. Some ppl just like to complain. And also they don't get it.

The PP who say we should have built at Rosslyn are NOT current Hamm/Taylor parents, that was clear from other parts of the post.

I just don’t see why anyone is lamenting that option, unless they mean abolish HBW so that middle schools would have more capacity (1100 sear Hamm, 1100 seat Heights), but no Taylor/Hamm parent would consider that? So really confused who is advocating for Rosslyn?

One take away I have from the Rosslyn point is that APS staff planners are really terrible. How could they locate a “neighborhood” MS so far away from the needed seats? That is, they justified spending millions on building DHMS as a neighborhood school and just in a heartbeat APS is now saying, woops, we don’t need those seats there.

Same argument re: Cardinal/closing Nottingham.

Bottom line for me is they are wholly incompetent and so parents should fight for what they want. This is not a do what’s best for the system when it’s comes to your own children/family. And that’s Ok.

They need seats in S Arlington, so neither site was a fix

Right, we get it. But, the argument is the Rosslyn is a heck of a lot closer to where the needed seats are than the leafy SFH neighborhood off Lorcom. It’s moot, though, because APS made its bed and now it has to lie in it.

Rosslyn is closer to Gunston than DHMS?

More or less, but it depends where the population distribution is within the Gunston/Kenmore /Jefferson zones.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/04/Map_Middle_School_2022_23-1.pdf

Probably what should have been done is to expand HBW when they had the new site. If they had expanded to the 1100 seats as originally planned for a neighborhood school, HBW would have provided 150 more middle school seats and 250 more high school seats. As an option program, anyone who didn't like the facilities would be welcome to head back to their home school.

I know HBW claims "small school" is part of its pedagogy, but that's a luxury we can ill afford in our urban out of space district. I thought it was supposed to be about independence and self direction?

Independence and self direction don't work in a huge school.

Why in the world not? That’s essentially college.

Adults go to college. Children in middle and high school go to HB. See the difference?

How convenient that HB pedagogy is need a small school.

HB used to be used as an outlet for specific kinds of kids, identified by teachers and parents — but mostly teachers when parents weren’t so involved. It worked as an amazing outlet for kids who were really smart but struggled in a traditional classroom setting. And the students were sort of similar in the respect — lot of dsylexia, pot smoking, artsy types.

Unfortunately, it also meant it was really really white. And rightly APS fixed that with the lottery system. The result though is that it’s not a “type” of kid who gets sent there anymore, just parents who think smaller is better (which in education it often is). Meaning that a consistent pedagogy is really not realistic with a bunch of random HS kids with different expectations/needs/abilities. I can’t believe we still let it happen in light of the sheer numbers at the other HS.

The lottery has been around for years. Before that it was first come first served which resulted in parents queuing several days in the early 1990s to get their kids on the list. That is why they introduced the lottery. There are some kids who might be placed there for special reasons, but that is not the majority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh look. We should have done a Rosslyn MS after all.

+1

Why do people keep talking about a Rosslyn middle school? How would have helped this situation? Truly don’t understand the point.

Not sure because the kids who live near Hamm would have been bused there, so I am not sure how that would have been better for them than busing to WMS. Some ppl just like to complain. And also they don't get it.

The PP who say we should have built at Rosslyn are NOT current Hamm/Taylor parents, that was clear from other parts of the post.

I just don’t see why anyone is lamenting that option, unless they mean abolish HBW so that middle schools would have more capacity (1100 sear Hamm, 1100 seat Heights), but no Taylor/Hamm parent would consider that? So really confused who is advocating for Rosslyn?

One take away I have from the Rosslyn point is that APS staff planners are really terrible. How could they locate a “neighborhood” MS so far away from the needed seats? That is, they justified spending millions on building DHMS as a neighborhood school and just in a heartbeat APS is now saying, woops, we don’t need those seats there.

Same argument re: Cardinal/closing Nottingham.

Bottom line for me is they are wholly incompetent and so parents should fight for what they want. This is not a do what’s best for the system when it’s comes to your own children/family. And that’s Ok.

They need seats in S Arlington, so neither site was a fix

Right, we get it. But, the argument is the Rosslyn is a heck of a lot closer to where the needed seats are than the leafy SFH neighborhood off Lorcom. It’s moot, though, because APS made its bed and now it has to lie in it.

Rosslyn is closer to Gunston than DHMS?

More or less, but it depends where the population distribution is within the Gunston/Kenmore /Jefferson zones.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/04/Map_Middle_School_2022_23-1.pdf

Probably what should have been done is to expand HBW when they had the new site. If they had expanded to the 1100 seats as originally planned for a neighborhood school, HBW would have provided 150 more middle school seats and 250 more high school seats. As an option program, anyone who didn't like the facilities would be welcome to head back to their home school.

I know HBW claims "small school" is part of its pedagogy, but that's a luxury we can ill afford in our urban out of space district. I thought it was supposed to be about independence and self direction?

Independence and self direction don't work in a huge school.

Why in the world not? That’s essentially college.

Adults go to college. Children in middle and high school go to HB. See the difference?

How convenient that HB pedagogy is need a small school.

HB used to be used as an outlet for specific kinds of kids, identified by teachers and parents — but mostly teachers when parents weren’t so involved. It worked as an amazing outlet for kids who were really smart but struggled in a traditional classroom setting. And the students were sort of similar in the respect — lot of dsylexia, pot smoking, artsy types.

Unfortunately, it also meant it was really really white. And rightly APS fixed that with the lottery system. The result though is that it’s not a “type” of kid who gets sent there anymore, just parents who think smaller is better (which in education it often is). Meaning that a consistent pedagogy is really not realistic with a bunch of random HS kids with different expectations/needs/abilities. I can’t believe we still let it happen in light of the sheer numbers at the other HS.

The lottery has been around for years. Before that it was first come first served which resulted in parents queuing several days in the early 1990s to get their kids on the list. That is why they introduced the lottery. There are some kids who might be placed there for special reasons, but that is not the majority.

Agreed about timeline. Are you disagreeing with what I said? Or do you just not know back that far?

I’m very curious about the kids “placed there for special reasons.” New idea to me that there is a lottery workaround. Fascinating, please explosive.