Is Karen considered a racial slur?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:All this fuss makes me want to use it more. Maybe if more white women feel the oppression they are both perpetrators and victims of, they'll stop aligning themselves with white supremacy and actually help us dismantle it.

White women will just report you to the manager for your micro aggressions and perhaps call the police on you if you escalate. What comes around goes around. Hope you don't get caught doing it at work.

I'm not dumb enough to think white women are my friends, at work or otherwise. Beware of the Karens is potentially life saving advice I will continue to give my kids. Those ladies may seem nice enough, but crossing them could get you killed. Learn to identify and avoid.

What would you say if a white person was teaching their kids that “be aware of young black men” is potentially life saving advice?

You really don’t know what racism is, do you?

Are you really suggesting that teaching your kids to fear and “stay the hell away” from white women is not racist?

Not just white women. Fussy power tripping white women. Fussy power tripping white women are dangerous. You refuse to see the difference and acknowledge reality.

+1 million

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Yes. It's only used with regard to white women. If its not racist, please let me know what I can call a similarly situated black, hispanic, asian, etc. woman.

It's not racist, and you can call them Karen if they're being a Karen. You can even call a dude Karen. Everyone will understand what you mean. Can we get back to real problems now?

+1

Ok, just to be clear, you are all for racist stereotyping. And it is ok as long as it is an unsympathetic group of people you are targeting. All those middle-aged white women deserve to be disparaged as a group.

I'm not passing laws lady. I'm using a word in my private life to blow off steam, because in real life I have to kowtow to these fools. No one is oppressing you.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I hate the term Karen, but the way the word "entitled" has come to be used bothers me more. The connotation of that word is negative, usually used when someone thinks they deserve special privileges or treatment for no reason. Acting as of you are deserving of special treatment is entitled and annoying.

Asking for the food you ordered, for basic rules to be observed (like quiet hours or no smoking at a hotel), or to not have someone screaming in your face is not entitled.

It's funny to me that people hate Karens who complain about rules that apply to everyone being broken. Isn't it more entitled to think the rules don't apply to you?

The lording over people is the entitlement bit. You have designated yourself hall monitor to tell others what to do.

Doesn't that depend on the situation? If you are in a hotel with your kids trying to sleep and the person next to you is partying loudly at 3 a.m., you actually are entitled to quiet, and the people partying are not. If you ask for quiet, either directly or by calling the front desk, does that make you a Karen?

You can ask them nicely to be quieter or call the front desk and nicely ask them to help.

That goes for all skin tones and genders.

If someone is keeping me awake until 3am because of their loud partying at a hotel that I am also paying to stay it, I will not be nice.

Perfect example of a Karen. We don’t know your age, gender, or race. Just your attitude and self-professed likely behavior.

Again, can’t you just call out the bad behavior? Easier for you to have a nasty term to use? Put it all in the same bucket and use the middle-aged white women as your shorthand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate the term Karen, but the way the word "entitled" has come to be used bothers me more. The connotation of that word is negative, usually used when someone thinks they deserve special privileges or treatment for no reason. Acting as of you are deserving of special treatment is entitled and annoying.

Asking for the food you ordered, for basic rules to be observed (like quiet hours or no smoking at a hotel), or to not have someone screaming in your face is not entitled.

It's funny to me that people hate Karens who complain about rules that apply to everyone being broken. Isn't it more entitled to think the rules don't apply to you?

The lording over people is the entitlement bit. You have designated yourself hall monitor to tell others what to do.

Doesn't that depend on the situation? If you are in a hotel with your kids trying to sleep and the person next to you is partying loudly at 3 a.m., you actually are entitled to quiet, and the people partying are not. If you ask for quiet, either directly or by calling the front desk, does that make you a Karen?

You can ask them nicely to be quieter or call the front desk and nicely ask them to help.

That goes for all skin tones and genders.

If someone is keeping me awake until 3am because of their loud partying at a hotel that I am also paying to stay it, I will not be nice.

Perfect example of a Karen. We don’t know your age, gender, or race. Just your attitude and self-professed likely behavior.

How is this being a Karen?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate the term Karen, but the way the word "entitled" has come to be used bothers me more. The connotation of that word is negative, usually used when someone thinks they deserve special privileges or treatment for no reason. Acting as of you are deserving of special treatment is entitled and annoying.

Asking for the food you ordered, for basic rules to be observed (like quiet hours or no smoking at a hotel), or to not have someone screaming in your face is not entitled.

It's funny to me that people hate Karens who complain about rules that apply to everyone being broken. Isn't it more entitled to think the rules don't apply to you?

The lording over people is the entitlement bit. You have designated yourself hall monitor to tell others what to do.

Exactly. It's a perceived sense of power that they get some sick joy out of lording over everyone. For example, the biddies in my neighborhood currently up in arms over a few kids selling cold water at the park. How is it hurting you? Why can't you keep your nose in your own business?

How do you know what their business is? Maybe they had to buy permits to sell water and these kids are doing it without the permit thus hurting their business? It's not just a few sweet kids doing no harm. If it's a permit issue why are they entitled to sell water with out a permit?

What are the chances they are actually affected by a few kids selling waters? They aren't. Yet you justify their behavior. THIS is white entitlement and this is why people chafe at it. Just mind your own damn business! The days of you being the ultimate authority are over, no matter how loudly you screech about it.

Oh I see. Entitlement only applies to some. The kids weren't being entitled by operating outside the law? Do laws not apply to all? The women were obviously minding their own business until this came along. I reject your lawless society.

You better call the manager, Karen.

Why not? I'm calling out the bad behavior of others. It's allowed.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s break it down, and to do so we have to start with Becky first, then Karen second.

Merriam-Webster defines “Becky” as “a white woman who is ignorant of both her privilege and her prejudice.”

A Becky is “a white woman who uses her privilege as a weapon, a ladder or an excuse”—and there are five distinct categories of them.

Notable Beckys include Taylor Swift, each Kardashian, and every white woman named ‘Amber.’ Not every white woman is a Becky, of course. But all Beckys are white women.

A “Karen” is basically a graduated Becky who’s extremely aware of her privilege and weaponizes it. A Becky convinces herself—and attempts to convince others—that her whiteness doesn’t matter. A Karen doesn’t even bother to fake it. She knows it’s her Big Joker and plays it whenever necessary.

Karen is, at it’s heart, just the word people use for someone bossy and entitled. Someone authoritarian and nosy and far too involved with other people’s business.

Racial slur, eh nope. Focus on the behavior.

If you don’t understand this definition, you are most likely a Becky.

A “Karen” is basically a graduated Becky who’s extremely aware of her privilege and weaponizes it. A Becky convinces herself—and attempts to convince others—that her whiteness doesn’t matter. A Karen doesn’t even bother to fake it. She knows it’s her Big Joker and plays it whenever necessary.

Great example is the Central Park woman who called the police on the black birdwatcher last year because he asked her to leash her dog.

The problem is that people then apply it to situations that don't fit it as well as the woman in Central Park (whose name is Amy!). Yes, she was weaponizing white womanhood to try and get a black man in trouble (and therefore put him in danger because of what we all understand about police violence towards black men). But then you have people in this thread saying a Karen is just someone who acts entitle or complains to the manager.

So the result is that people equate a white woman complaining to the manager of Starbucks about her coffee order with a woman who is using her whiteness to endanger a black man. And then the sight of a middle aged white woman complaining (or asserting herself) is deemed de facto racist even if she's justified in her complaint, even if no one is in danger.

The case of the nurse who got "Karen'ed" because of a video showing her arguing with a young black man over a bike rental is a perfect example. I get not everyone knows about it, but it's a perfect example of the problem with using Karen in this way. It got trumped up as "racist Karen tries to steal Citibike from young black man" but it turns out that it was a way more nuanced situation. She'd actually rented the bike, and he was arguing that it was "his" because he'd rented it earlier. He and his friends verbally abused the nurse, who was 6 months pregnant at the time and getting off a long shift at the hospital (and wanted an e-bike for her commute home). The video that got labeled a "Karen" video actually shows the men forcibly redocking the bike she'd rented and then renting it on their own phone while she was still on it. But an online mob doxed the nurse and she wound up on leave from her job and having to temporarily move because of the incident.

So maybe the term is not as useful as you thought. Maybe we should use real words to describe actual behavior, instead of vague epithets.

"So the result is that people equate a white woman complaining to the manager of Starbucks about her coffee order with a woman who is using her whiteness to endanger a black man. And then the sight of a middle aged white woman complaining (or asserting herself) is deemed de facto racist even if she's justified in her complaint, even if no one is in danger."

This is a really good way of putting it, with the same logic, I would also say that "then the sight of a middle aged white woman compaining or asserting ehrself is deemed de facto AS BAD AS BEING racist, even if she is justifyed in her complaint, which is another way of shutting down women's ability to advocate for themselves or have any rights, because it's just another way that women in general are being told they don't matter and shouldn't ever protest

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Yes. It's only used with regard to white women. If its not racist, please let me know what I can call a similarly situated black, hispanic, asian, etc. woman.

It's not racist, and you can call them Karen if they're being a Karen. You can even call a dude Karen. Everyone will understand what you mean. Can we get back to real problems now?

+1

Ok, just to be clear, you are all for racist stereotyping. And it is ok as long as it is an unsympathetic group of people you are targeting. All those middle-aged white women deserve to be disparaged as a group.

I'm not passing laws lady. I'm using a word in my private life to blow off steam, because in real life I have to kowtow to these fools. No one is oppressing you.

Cool. So expressing your anger using a racist stereotype works for you. As long as it’s private, all good.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate the term Karen, but the way the word "entitled" has come to be used bothers me more. The connotation of that word is negative, usually used when someone thinks they deserve special privileges or treatment for no reason. Acting as of you are deserving of special treatment is entitled and annoying.

Asking for the food you ordered, for basic rules to be observed (like quiet hours or no smoking at a hotel), or to not have someone screaming in your face is not entitled.

It's funny to me that people hate Karens who complain about rules that apply to everyone being broken. Isn't it more entitled to think the rules don't apply to you?

The lording over people is the entitlement bit. You have designated yourself hall monitor to tell others what to do.

Exactly. It's a perceived sense of power that they get some sick joy out of lording over everyone. For example, the biddies in my neighborhood currently up in arms over a few kids selling cold water at the park. How is it hurting you? Why can't you keep your nose in your own business?

How do you know what their business is? Maybe they had to buy permits to sell water and these kids are doing it without the permit thus hurting their business? It's not just a few sweet kids doing no harm. If it's a permit issue why are they entitled to sell water with out a permit?

What are the chances they are actually affected by a few kids selling waters? They aren't. Yet you justify their behavior. THIS is white entitlement and this is why people chafe at it. Just mind your own damn business! The days of you being the ultimate authority are over, no matter how loudly you screech about it.

Oh I see. Entitlement only applies to some. The kids weren't being entitled by operating outside the law? Do laws not apply to all? The women were obviously minding their own business until this came along. I reject your lawless society.

You better call the manager, Karen.

Why not? I'm calling out the bad behavior of others. It's allowed.

Sure, do what you want. Keep throwing around that white privilege Karen. Show em who's boss!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All this fuss makes me want to use it more. Maybe if more white women feel the oppression they are both perpetrators and victims of, they'll stop aligning themselves with white supremacy and actually help us dismantle it.

White women will just report you to the manager for your micro aggressions and perhaps call the police on you if you escalate. What comes around goes around. Hope you don't get caught doing it at work.

I'm not dumb enough to think white women are my friends, at work or otherwise. Beware of the Karens is potentially life saving advice I will continue to give my kids. Those ladies may seem nice enough, but crossing them could get you killed. Learn to identify and avoid.

What would you say if a white person was teaching their kids that “be aware of young black men” is potentially life saving advice?

You really don’t know what racism is, do you?

Are you really suggesting that teaching your kids to fear and “stay the hell away” from white women is not racist?

Not just white women. Fussy power tripping white women. Fussy power tripping white women are dangerous. You refuse to see the difference and acknowledge reality.

A black man tried to rob me. A black man followed me to my house after I got off the night shift at a restaurant. Multiple black me have said scary, aggressive sexual things to me, include one black man who told me who graphically threatened to rape me when I was walking down the street in Columbia Heights (he was surrounded by several of his friends at that time, and I was walking alone). Yet, I will not tell my children to fear black men. Because I have hope. I have hope that in the future there will be less racism. And I know that a few bad men don't make a whole race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All this fuss makes me want to use it more. Maybe if more white women feel the oppression they are both perpetrators and victims of, they'll stop aligning themselves with white supremacy and actually help us dismantle it.

White women will just report you to the manager for your micro aggressions and perhaps call the police on you if you escalate. What comes around goes around. Hope you don't get caught doing it at work.

I'm not dumb enough to think white women are my friends, at work or otherwise. Beware of the Karens is potentially life saving advice I will continue to give my kids. Those ladies may seem nice enough, but crossing them could get you killed. Learn to identify and avoid.

What would you say if a white person was teaching their kids that “be aware of young black men” is potentially life saving advice?

You really don’t know what racism is, do you?

Are you really suggesting that teaching your kids to fear and “stay the hell away” from white women is not racist?

Not just white women. Fussy power tripping white women. Fussy power tripping white women are dangerous. You refuse to see the difference and acknowledge reality.

A black man tried to rob me. A black man followed me to my house after I got off the night shift at a restaurant. Multiple black me have said scary, aggressive sexual things to me, include one black man who told me who graphically threatened to rape me when I was walking down the street in Columbia Heights (he was surrounded by several of his friends at that time, and I was walking alone). Yet, I will not tell my children to fear black men. Because I have hope. I have hope that in the future there will be less racism. And I know that a few bad men don't make a whole race.

Sorry, I just don't buy this. I'm a woman who lives in that area too, and I think you're making shit up to try to prove some reverse racism BS, and it's trashy as hell.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All this fuss makes me want to use it more. Maybe if more white women feel the oppression they are both perpetrators and victims of, they'll stop aligning themselves with white supremacy and actually help us dismantle it.

White women will just report you to the manager for your micro aggressions and perhaps call the police on you if you escalate. What comes around goes around. Hope you don't get caught doing it at work.

I'm not dumb enough to think white women are my friends, at work or otherwise. Beware of the Karens is potentially life saving advice I will continue to give my kids. Those ladies may seem nice enough, but crossing them could get you killed. Learn to identify and avoid.

What would you say if a white person was teaching their kids that “be aware of young black men” is potentially life saving advice?

You really don’t know what racism is, do you?

Are you really suggesting that teaching your kids to fear and “stay the hell away” from white women is not racist?

Not just white women. Fussy power tripping white women. Fussy power tripping white women are dangerous. You refuse to see the difference and acknowledge reality.

A black man tried to rob me. A black man followed me to my house after I got off the night shift at a restaurant. Multiple black me have said scary, aggressive sexual things to me, include one black man who told me who graphically threatened to rape me when I was walking down the street in Columbia Heights (he was surrounded by several of his friends at that time, and I was walking alone). Yet, I will not tell my children to fear black men. Because I have hope. I have hope that in the future there will be less racism. And I know that a few bad men don't make a whole race.

Sorry, I just don't buy this. I'm a woman who lives in that area too, and I think you're making shit up to try to prove some reverse racism BS, and it's trashy as hell.

This actually happened to me, and it was super scary. But, okay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an UMC white woman. And, frankly, the elite and wealthy white women I'm around do not act like "karens" because they generally don't have to. When you predominately shop at expensive places, go on expensive vacations, and live in expensive neighborhoods, you don't have to fight.

I don't think this term silences or hurts wealthy, UC white women. Because those women DGAF. They are happy and protected in their bubbles and they can afford to live in nice neighborhoods, go on nice vacations, shop in nice stores and order everything online so that they can minimize unpleasantness. When someone is rude to them, they generally have the bandwidth to cope because their lives are relatively low stress.

I compare this to friends who are more MC or LWC, and those are the women I think would more likely be name "karens" because they are constantly having to fight for everything. I don't think they are trying to wield their privilege as much as they are trying to cope with a world that demands so much from them, while at the same time treating them with zero respect and sometimes open hostility bc they are no longer sexually valued and they dared to ask for anything.

These are the same women helping their parents, kids, spouses, working, and running their households, while generally being treated like crap in a lot of situations.

I agree with the pp who said "karen" silences women and we should stop using it.

Oh my god. Do you hear yourself?????
You're wrong.
Signed, a LMC middle aged white woman.

Say more. I thought it was useful. Or are you objecting to a UC woman representing you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate the term Karen, but the way the word "entitled" has come to be used bothers me more. The connotation of that word is negative, usually used when someone thinks they deserve special privileges or treatment for no reason. Acting as of you are deserving of special treatment is entitled and annoying.

Asking for the food you ordered, for basic rules to be observed (like quiet hours or no smoking at a hotel), or to not have someone screaming in your face is not entitled.

It's funny to me that people hate Karens who complain about rules that apply to everyone being broken. Isn't it more entitled to think the rules don't apply to you?

The lording over people is the entitlement bit. You have designated yourself hall monitor to tell others what to do.

Exactly. It's a perceived sense of power that they get some sick joy out of lording over everyone. For example, the biddies in my neighborhood currently up in arms over a few kids selling cold water at the park. How is it hurting you? Why can't you keep your nose in your own business?

How do you know what their business is? Maybe they had to buy permits to sell water and these kids are doing it without the permit thus hurting their business? It's not just a few sweet kids doing no harm. If it's a permit issue why are they entitled to sell water with out a permit?

What are the chances they are actually affected by a few kids selling waters? They aren't. Yet you justify their behavior. THIS is white entitlement and this is why people chafe at it. Just mind your own damn business! The days of you being the ultimate authority are over, no matter how loudly you screech about it.

Everyone "minding their own damn business" is why inner-cities are looking like they do. You may not like it, but enforcement of rules and laws is why we used to have "nice things" and why people around the world (including black and brown people) want to move to the U.S. Personally, I welcome a little societal stigma keeping people's behaviors in line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All this fuss makes me want to use it more. Maybe if more white women feel the oppression they are both perpetrators and victims of, they'll stop aligning themselves with white supremacy and actually help us dismantle it.

White women will just report you to the manager for your micro aggressions and perhaps call the police on you if you escalate. What comes around goes around. Hope you don't get caught doing it at work.

I'm not dumb enough to think white women are my friends, at work or otherwise. Beware of the Karens is potentially life saving advice I will continue to give my kids. Those ladies may seem nice enough, but crossing them could get you killed. Learn to identify and avoid.

What would you say if a white person was teaching their kids that “be aware of young black men” is potentially life saving advice?

You really don’t know what racism is, do you?

Are you really suggesting that teaching your kids to fear and “stay the hell away” from white women is not racist?

Not just white women. Fussy power tripping white women. Fussy power tripping white women are dangerous. You refuse to see the difference and acknowledge reality.

+1 million

Ironic that people can’t see any parallels about subjugating and suppressing a group of people (not the group that’s in power btw) for getting uppity. Karen is not used to describe only racist dangerous white women. It’s used to describe white women you disagree with and want to silence. The fact that so many women use this slur too is evidence of how deep misogyny runs in this country.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m a middle aged white woman and do not consider it a racial slur. Karens are busybodies and misdemeanor vigilantes against minorities. Not sure why other middle age women want to defend this behavior and label it racist?

When did this become part of the Karen stereotype? I’m a middle aged white woman and when I first started hearing the term, I took it as a light hearted stereotype of a certain type of demanding woman. It always seemed as if the term were meant to be comical and not taken too seriously. All of a sudden it morphed into something much more sinister. That Karen was a racist who went after minorities. This wasn’t part of the original use was it?

It’s not a demanding woman. It is a woman asserting her privilege(many times it’s white woman privilege) and putting others around her in their place. It’s the contempt and distain for anyone who they view as lesser(which is everyone).

*disdain

Why attach a common name to this? Because it is an easy way to denigrate middle-aged women who simply don’t matter anymore. Why can’t you see this?

Dp. They can’t see it because they are too ingrained in a system that diminishes women, while denying it’s happening. Kinda like systemic racism.. systemic misogyny is alive and well, but apparently more tolerated by DCUM.

Please if you don’t matter and are displaced why are you comfortable acting like you have special privileges vs everyone else? People are not calling a random white woman “Karen”. They are calling out the(usually) white, upper class woman who is going out of her way to enforce her privilege and entitlement.

Exactly. It’s about the bad behavior.

Then use a word describing the behavior. How hard is this?

There isn’t a word for that specific behavior.

Oh please. That’s just stupid. There are 600,000 words in the English language. If you can’t come up with anything other than “Karen”, you’re just not very bright.

I can make something up but the point was the word doesn’t exist today.

“ call the manager ” is too long.

Wow so disparaging women is just easier than using three words, so why not do it. You people have really bought in to your misogyny. It’s startling.

Oh no, are you going to call the manager?

See - it’s just too awkward and doesn’t work in all scenarios.

It’s not misogyny. It’s not racism. It’s calling out bad behavior.

I wouldn't ask this in real life, but -- isn't it sometimes appropriate to call a manager? If something isn't getting resolved, and it needs to be? I get that it's not true in a situation in which someone is saying -- say, I want a free coffee and you aren't giving it to me, so I am going to call your manager and tell him you stole my coffee & because you are black the manager will believe me -- but what would happen if I pay for a coffee and the barista refuses to give it to me? I am not allowed to call the manager because if I do that makes me entitled (in a bad way)?