Hill Middle Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One big problem for the Hill middle schools is that 5th is the only significant entry year for Latin and Basis. You can always “try” Latin or Basis for a year or two and then switch back to your in-bound middle school. But you cannot do the reverse. This results in a lot of people with some inclination to attend the nearby school gradually deciding to at least participate in the 5th grade charter school lottery and then further deciding to try Latin/Basis for 5th grade. Repeat.

100%. The biggest change I’d like to see to DC schools is ending DCPS & charter ESes in the same year. The current model is absurd and terrible for DCPS, which should frankly be the priority.

That said, this is exactly us. Our IB is SH and we’re actually not sure if we’d prefer it or BASIS, but will send our kid to BASIS if we lottery in, because if she hates it, she could still not only go to SH but start on time.

Yes, and? It is called school choice, not design your own school. You have an option to match at BASIS or Latin in 5th. You also have an option to return to SH if you are unhappy. What is laughable is the ignorance of your unbridled privilege in having SH as a fall back and objecting to BASIS and Latin having the audacity to cater to all kids in DC, and not just those privileged enough to be IB for SH.

The point is that it's a bad design for school choice for what's best for DC overall. It creates an added incentive for kids to leave their IB schools that is bad for DC overall. My whole point is that I will take advantage of it and it is, in fact, good for me personally (i.e., despite what you say, it *does* cater for SH families with good lottery luck). But it is not good for DC. In any case, I don't fault BASIS or Latin at all for starting in 5th when it's an available option. I fault the city for setting it up that way. (And FWIW I would also be fine with all DCPS / DCPCS middle schools starting in 5th instead, I just think the two different entry years is a bad model. DC *has* moved towards standardizing entry and exit years at DCPSes, they should just do it for DCPCSes as well.)

Your self-centeredness astounds. You view the world through the prism of your own experience and opportunity. BASIS and Latin do NOT exist for the benefit and pleasure of SH. You want kids to remain in 5th at their ES because your ES is good (for you). There are a lot of ES in DC that kids cannot escape fast enough. You can't see that with your "me" blinders on. You see only your path, your ES, your SH path.

You are also ignorant of actual enrollment data. Yes, there are a lot of SH catchment kids at BASIS and Latin. But, notwithstanding what your neighbors tell you, it isn't remotely comprised of all those kids. Not remotely. I find it amusing that you and the Deal/JR/W3 fool both have impressions of BASIS and Latin that don't reflect reality. Yet you both speak with certainty formed from your own experience and and hubris and ignorance that simply won't let you for a moment consider that not everyone is you or your similalry situated neighbors.

You don't seem great at reading comprehension. The part you bolded and what you replied with have almost nothing to do with each other. I said that the current approach *was* good for families w/ passable DCPS MS options (including, FWIW, Deal) & good lottery luck, but not for others. You appear to think I said the opposite. Schools having 50% turnover in the final year of ES are good for no one, least of all the students left behind. I also noted that I'd be equally happy with DCPSes ending in 4th, so I'm not looking to necessarily keep kids in DCPS ES longer. That said, you don't even once think about the kids who want to "escape" to charter MSes and can't, so if anyone has blinders it's you. There is literally not a single word in what you wrote that explains why it benefits they system to have different starting years for MSes.

Nope. Yet again you chime in to prove to us that you understand only your own experience and ES school options. There are a LOT of kids in ES in DC who benefit greatly from getting out ASAP. This is what you seem unable to comprehend. We get it; YOUR school is harmed by kids leaving in 5th. YOUR school would be filled with kids at or above grade level if those kids remained. That it not how it is for everyone and BASIS and Latin are not designed merely for people with your options and privilege.

This has now been explained to you several times, yet you cannot see it or anything beyond your world view and experience. It is sad and funny. But mostly sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I realize this may be a moot point since everybody seems to be fiercely defending their choices in their corners. I feel strongly that parents can share their personal experiences and reasons if they so choose, but generalizing about decisions of all public school parents, all charter parents, all private parents, or all parents of certain backgrounds isn't just unhelpful, but it is not ever accurate. It would help everybody (not to mention the kids, who overhear adults saying these things and say them to each other at sports, camps etc -- the things my child has come home saying other kids have said is not good). Anyway - as a parent who has enrolled her rising 6th grader at EH, I don't need to read all these posts about 'all people who send their kids to DCPS middles are sacrificing their kids, holier than thou, and will supplement, etc'. I do not generalize about all of the families who choose to go charter or private, I know families make their decisions for a variety of reasons. We did not strike out in the lottery, we did not do the lottery, nor did many of my child's classmates. Based on conversations we have had with current families at the middle school, and learning about the programs, clubs, etc - we chose this school intentionally. My son has done well with strong teachers during the past 8 years, and despite there being a range of scores/grade levels in his classes in later elementary, his teachers were still able to meet and push students from different levels. I know not every teacher will be perfect and some may struggle more with the differentiation, but I also know that as a child in a sought after public school district in IL, I had some less than stellar teachers, it happens everywhere.
Anyway - again this will probably not change the tone on this forum, but it would be great if we could all be genuinely interested in all of the students and schools instead of pitting people/schools against each other.

You should google "false equivalence" before you spend 5000 words to "both sides" this issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One big problem for the Hill middle schools is that 5th is the only significant entry year for Latin and Basis. You can always “try” Latin or Basis for a year or two and then switch back to your in-bound middle school. But you cannot do the reverse. This results in a lot of people with some inclination to attend the nearby school gradually deciding to at least participate in the 5th grade charter school lottery and then further deciding to try Latin/Basis for 5th grade. Repeat.

100%. The biggest change I’d like to see to DC schools is ending DCPS & charter ESes in the same year. The current model is absurd and terrible for DCPS, which should frankly be the priority.

That said, this is exactly us. Our IB is SH and we’re actually not sure if we’d prefer it or BASIS, but will send our kid to BASIS if we lottery in, because if she hates it, she could still not only go to SH but start on time.

Yes, and? It is called school choice, not design your own school. You have an option to match at BASIS or Latin in 5th. You also have an option to return to SH if you are unhappy. What is laughable is the ignorance of your unbridled privilege in having SH as a fall back and objecting to BASIS and Latin having the audacity to cater to all kids in DC, and not just those privileged enough to be IB for SH.

The point is that it's a bad design for school choice for what's best for DC overall. It creates an added incentive for kids to leave their IB schools that is bad for DC overall. My whole point is that I will take advantage of it and it is, in fact, good for me personally (i.e., despite what you say, it *does* cater for SH families with good lottery luck). But it is not good for DC. In any case, I don't fault BASIS or Latin at all for starting in 5th when it's an available option. I fault the city for setting it up that way. (And FWIW I would also be fine with all DCPS / DCPCS middle schools starting in 5th instead, I just think the two different entry years is a bad model. DC *has* moved towards standardizing entry and exit years at DCPSes, they should just do it for DCPCSes as well.)

Your self-centeredness astounds. You view the world through the prism of your own experience and opportunity. BASIS and Latin do NOT exist for the benefit and pleasure of SH. You want kids to remain in 5th at their ES because your ES is good (for you). There are a lot of ES in DC that kids cannot escape fast enough. You can't see that with your "me" blinders on. You see only your path, your ES, your SH path.

You are also ignorant of actual enrollment data. Yes, there are a lot of SH catchment kids at BASIS and Latin. But, notwithstanding what your neighbors tell you, it isn't remotely comprised of all those kids. Not remotely. I find it amusing that you and the Deal/JR/W3 fool both have impressions of BASIS and Latin that don't reflect reality. Yet you both speak with certainty formed from your own experience and and hubris and ignorance that simply won't let you for a moment consider that not everyone is you or your similalry situated neighbors.

You don't seem great at reading comprehension. The part you bolded and what you replied with have almost nothing to do with each other. I said that the current approach *was* good for families w/ passable DCPS MS options (including, FWIW, Deal) & good lottery luck, but not for others. You appear to think I said the opposite. Schools having 50% turnover in the final year of ES are good for no one, least of all the students left behind. I also noted that I'd be equally happy with DCPSes ending in 4th, so I'm not looking to necessarily keep kids in DCPS ES longer. That said, you don't even once think about the kids who want to "escape" to charter MSes and can't, so if anyone has blinders it's you. There is literally not a single word in what you wrote that explains why it benefits they system to have different starting years for MSes.

Nope. Yet again you chime in to prove to us that you understand only your own experience and ES school options. There are a LOT of kids in ES in DC who benefit greatly from getting out ASAP. This is what you seem unable to comprehend. We get it; YOUR school is harmed by kids leaving in 5th. YOUR school would be filled with kids at or above grade level if those kids remained. That it not how it is for everyone and BASIS and Latin are not designed merely for people with your options and privilege.

This has now been explained to you several times, yet you cannot see it or anything beyond your world view and experience. It is sad and funny. But mostly sad.

I don’t understand how changing the starting year for BASIS and Latin prevents kids from getting out of bad elementary schools in fifth grade. You could still lottery to a different school in 5th grade if you want, just not those two.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We know a bunch of Hill families of students who went through Stuart Hobson, now in HS (mostly at Walls) or college, who seem to be doing just fine. Some of these SH grads attend elite SLACs, Amherst, Middlebury, Swarthmore. We also know Brent students who went through Jefferson Academy and Maury students who went through Eliot-Hine, now top students at Walls or Banneker. These families coped and supplemented uncomplainingly, living their values by sending their children to neighborhood middle schools to stay in the community they love. More power to them. We've known these sweet kids since they were tiny tots. Come on, middle school is a tough age no matter where kids land. Our family isn't OK with DCPS after ES so we choose a parochial MS, but I'm not going to slam fellow Hill parents for having made a different choice, coming here to accuse them of poor parenting.

lol. they only “lived their values” because their kids got into Walls …

Seriously. When someone sends their kid to Dunbar I'll stop laughing at this idea.

There's a HUGE difference between schools like Eliot-Hine and Jefferson and schools like Dunbar. Not all Title I schools that serve a majority population of students of color are the same quality. Leadership and teachers matter a lot. As a middle income educated parent, I would absolutely consider both Eliot Hine and Jefferson - don't have enough experience with either to say if I'd actually choose them - but Dunbar, as it is now, is a no go.

To be fair, I don't run around advertising myself as "living my values." I'm not trying to change the world or the city or even a school. I'm looking out for the quality of my own child's education first and foremost. Part of that is exposing them to diversity, but not at the expense of attending a well run school.

This gets away from the middle school discussion, but I'm sending my kid out-of-bounds to a Title I ES where they are in a very small minority of white kids. But I wouldn't go to my in-bound ES, which is also Title I, and also overwhelmingly students of color. I visited both schools and the differences were stark. I have friends who work in top administrative positions in DCPS who said they would not send to my inbound, but would absolutely choose the ES we picked.

I think many DCUM posters/DC parents get that there are big distinctions between schools that seem to serve similar demographics on paper, but then I see comments like this and I just want to remind everyone that the picture out there is a lot more nuanced than some seem to think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One big problem for the Hill middle schools is that 5th is the only significant entry year for Latin and Basis. You can always “try” Latin or Basis for a year or two and then switch back to your in-bound middle school. But you cannot do the reverse. This results in a lot of people with some inclination to attend the nearby school gradually deciding to at least participate in the 5th grade charter school lottery and then further deciding to try Latin/Basis for 5th grade. Repeat.

100%. The biggest change I’d like to see to DC schools is ending DCPS & charter ESes in the same year. The current model is absurd and terrible for DCPS, which should frankly be the priority.

That said, this is exactly us. Our IB is SH and we’re actually not sure if we’d prefer it or BASIS, but will send our kid to BASIS if we lottery in, because if she hates it, she could still not only go to SH but start on time.

Yes, and? It is called school choice, not design your own school. You have an option to match at BASIS or Latin in 5th. You also have an option to return to SH if you are unhappy. What is laughable is the ignorance of your unbridled privilege in having SH as a fall back and objecting to BASIS and Latin having the audacity to cater to all kids in DC, and not just those privileged enough to be IB for SH.

The point is that it's a bad design for school choice for what's best for DC overall. It creates an added incentive for kids to leave their IB schools that is bad for DC overall. My whole point is that I will take advantage of it and it is, in fact, good for me personally (i.e., despite what you say, it *does* cater for SH families with good lottery luck). But it is not good for DC. In any case, I don't fault BASIS or Latin at all for starting in 5th when it's an available option. I fault the city for setting it up that way. (And FWIW I would also be fine with all DCPS / DCPCS middle schools starting in 5th instead, I just think the two different entry years is a bad model. DC *has* moved towards standardizing entry and exit years at DCPSes, they should just do it for DCPCSes as well.)

Your self-centeredness astounds. You view the world through the prism of your own experience and opportunity. BASIS and Latin do NOT exist for the benefit and pleasure of SH. You want kids to remain in 5th at their ES because your ES is good (for you). There are a lot of ES in DC that kids cannot escape fast enough. You can't see that with your "me" blinders on. You see only your path, your ES, your SH path.

You are also ignorant of actual enrollment data. Yes, there are a lot of SH catchment kids at BASIS and Latin. But, notwithstanding what your neighbors tell you, it isn't remotely comprised of all those kids. Not remotely. I find it amusing that you and the Deal/JR/W3 fool both have impressions of BASIS and Latin that don't reflect reality. Yet you both speak with certainty formed from your own experience and and hubris and ignorance that simply won't let you for a moment consider that not everyone is you or your similalry situated neighbors.

You don't seem great at reading comprehension. The part you bolded and what you replied with have almost nothing to do with each other. I said that the current approach *was* good for families w/ passable DCPS MS options (including, FWIW, Deal) & good lottery luck, but not for others. You appear to think I said the opposite. Schools having 50% turnover in the final year of ES are good for no one, least of all the students left behind. I also noted that I'd be equally happy with DCPSes ending in 4th, so I'm not looking to necessarily keep kids in DCPS ES longer. That said, you don't even once think about the kids who want to "escape" to charter MSes and can't, so if anyone has blinders it's you. There is literally not a single word in what you wrote that explains why it benefits they system to have different starting years for MSes.

Nope. Yet again you chime in to prove to us that you understand only your own experience and ES school options. There are a LOT of kids in ES in DC who benefit greatly from getting out ASAP. This is what you seem unable to comprehend. We get it; YOUR school is harmed by kids leaving in 5th. YOUR school would be filled with kids at or above grade level if those kids remained. That it not how it is for everyone and BASIS and Latin are not designed merely for people with your options and privilege.

This has now been explained to you several times, yet you cannot see it or anything beyond your world view and experience. It is sad and funny. But mostly sad.

I don’t understand how changing the starting year for BASIS and Latin prevents kids from getting out of bad elementary schools in fifth grade. You could still lottery to a different school in 5th grade if you want, just not those two.

I thought turnover at 5th grade was bad for EVERYONE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We know a bunch of Hill families of students who went through Stuart Hobson, now in HS (mostly at Walls) or college, who seem to be doing just fine. Some of these SH grads attend elite SLACs, Amherst, Middlebury, Swarthmore. We also know Brent students who went through Jefferson Academy and Maury students who went through Eliot-Hine, now top students at Walls or Banneker. These families coped and supplemented uncomplainingly, living their values by sending their children to neighborhood middle schools to stay in the community they love. More power to them. We've known these sweet kids since they were tiny tots. Come on, middle school is a tough age no matter where kids land. Our family isn't OK with DCPS after ES so we choose a parochial MS, but I'm not going to slam fellow Hill parents for having made a different choice, coming here to accuse them of poor parenting.

lol. they only “lived their values” because their kids got into Walls …

Seriously. When someone sends their kid to Dunbar I'll stop laughing at this idea.

There's a HUGE difference between schools like Eliot-Hine and Jefferson and schools like Dunbar. Not all Title I schools that serve a majority population of students of color are the same quality. Leadership and teachers matter a lot. As a middle income educated parent, I would absolutely consider both Eliot Hine and Jefferson - don't have enough experience with either to say if I'd actually choose them - but Dunbar, as it is now, is a no go.

To be fair, I don't run around advertising myself as "living my values." I'm not trying to change the world or the city or even a school. I'm looking out for the quality of my own child's education first and foremost. Part of that is exposing them to diversity, but not at the expense of attending a well run school.

This gets away from the middle school discussion, but I'm sending my kid out-of-bounds to a Title I ES where they are in a very small minority of white kids. But I wouldn't go to my in-bound ES, which is also Title I, and also overwhelmingly students of color. I visited both schools and the differences were stark. I have friends who work in top administrative positions in DCPS who said they would not send to my inbound, but would absolutely choose the ES we picked.

I think many DCUM posters/DC parents get that there are big distinctions between schools that seem to serve similar demographics on paper, but then I see comments like this and I just want to remind everyone that the picture out there is a lot more nuanced than some seem to think.

Agreed! As a DCPS teacher and parent, have to fully agree with this. My child did not go to Eliot-Hine or Jefferson, but did go to a different Title 1 middle school (not our IB).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s obvious that many people on here don’t know the history of DCPS.

Charters benefitted the city immensely because of school choice and it kept middle class families in the city. Otherwise they would move to the burbs once they had kids.

If Basis, Latin, DCI was not an option, the majority of these families, such as ours, would move to the burbs and not stay for failing DCPS middle and high school.

Charters are what’s keeping alot if families in the city. If not for then, they would move, not go to their IB DCPS school.

Agreed. There are a lot of newbies around who seem to think charters came on the scene and “ruined DCPS middle schools”.

Hahaha…ha.

People. You should have seen DCPS before charters. Hellscape.

The out of boundary enrollments were unreal. Overnight lines, shady dealings you name it. That was how families without means for parochial/private exercised school choice before charters.

Charters came and, among other benefits, halted the rapid loss of public school students from DC—INCLUDING DCPS. Neighborhood schools are doing better since charters started, in terms of enrollment and academic outcomes.

Something about the idea that families can make public education work in DC one way or another invigorated both public sectors. We may now be at a juncture where the role and size of the charter sector needs to be revisited, but get out of with the “charters are the problem everything was great before” bs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One big problem for the Hill middle schools is that 5th is the only significant entry year for Latin and Basis. You can always “try” Latin or Basis for a year or two and then switch back to your in-bound middle school. But you cannot do the reverse. This results in a lot of people with some inclination to attend the nearby school gradually deciding to at least participate in the 5th grade charter school lottery and then further deciding to try Latin/Basis for 5th grade. Repeat.

100%. The biggest change I’d like to see to DC schools is ending DCPS & charter ESes in the same year. The current model is absurd and terrible for DCPS, which should frankly be the priority.

That said, this is exactly us. Our IB is SH and we’re actually not sure if we’d prefer it or BASIS, but will send our kid to BASIS if we lottery in, because if she hates it, she could still not only go to SH but start on time.

Yes, and? It is called school choice, not design your own school. You have an option to match at BASIS or Latin in 5th. You also have an option to return to SH if you are unhappy. What is laughable is the ignorance of your unbridled privilege in having SH as a fall back and objecting to BASIS and Latin having the audacity to cater to all kids in DC, and not just those privileged enough to be IB for SH.

The point is that it's a bad design for school choice for what's best for DC overall. It creates an added incentive for kids to leave their IB schools that is bad for DC overall. My whole point is that I will take advantage of it and it is, in fact, good for me personally (i.e., despite what you say, it *does* cater for SH families with good lottery luck). But it is not good for DC. In any case, I don't fault BASIS or Latin at all for starting in 5th when it's an available option. I fault the city for setting it up that way. (And FWIW I would also be fine with all DCPS / DCPCS middle schools starting in 5th instead, I just think the two different entry years is a bad model. DC *has* moved towards standardizing entry and exit years at DCPSes, they should just do it for DCPCSes as well.)

Your self-centeredness astounds. You view the world through the prism of your own experience and opportunity. BASIS and Latin do NOT exist for the benefit and pleasure of SH. You want kids to remain in 5th at their ES because your ES is good (for you). There are a lot of ES in DC that kids cannot escape fast enough. You can't see that with your "me" blinders on. You see only your path, your ES, your SH path.

You are also ignorant of actual enrollment data. Yes, there are a lot of SH catchment kids at BASIS and Latin. But, notwithstanding what your neighbors tell you, it isn't remotely comprised of all those kids. Not remotely. I find it amusing that you and the Deal/JR/W3 fool both have impressions of BASIS and Latin that don't reflect reality. Yet you both speak with certainty formed from your own experience and and hubris and ignorance that simply won't let you for a moment consider that not everyone is you or your similalry situated neighbors.

You don't seem great at reading comprehension. The part you bolded and what you replied with have almost nothing to do with each other. I said that the current approach *was* good for families w/ passable DCPS MS options (including, FWIW, Deal) & good lottery luck, but not for others. You appear to think I said the opposite. Schools having 50% turnover in the final year of ES are good for no one, least of all the students left behind. I also noted that I'd be equally happy with DCPSes ending in 4th, so I'm not looking to necessarily keep kids in DCPS ES longer. That said, you don't even once think about the kids who want to "escape" to charter MSes and can't, so if anyone has blinders it's you. There is literally not a single word in what you wrote that explains why it benefits they system to have different starting years for MSes.

Nope. Yet again you chime in to prove to us that you understand only your own experience and ES school options. There are a LOT of kids in ES in DC who benefit greatly from getting out ASAP. This is what you seem unable to comprehend. We get it; YOUR school is harmed by kids leaving in 5th. YOUR school would be filled with kids at or above grade level if those kids remained. That it not how it is for everyone and BASIS and Latin are not designed merely for people with your options and privilege.

This has now been explained to you several times, yet you cannot see it or anything beyond your world view and experience. It is sad and funny. But mostly sad.

I don’t understand how changing the starting year for BASIS and Latin prevents kids from getting out of bad elementary schools in fifth grade. You could still lottery to a different school in 5th grade if you want, just not those two.

Also, the PP literally says they’d support all ESes ending in 4th, which you just entirely ignore? The question is whether there is any good reason for DCPS and charter MSes to start in different years. You ignore that question again. You also ignore again the effect on the kids who don’t get out. You seem unable to focus on anyone other than a small handful of kids with good lottery luck. That’s obviously not who the entire system should be designed around. They are already the lottery winners.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A better way for DCPS to compete for middle school students would be to limit access to DCPS selective high schools exclusively to graduates of DCPS middle school programs.

This is worth considering for the impact on UMC white families and Hill middle schools though I wonder what parents (mostly black families) who send their kids to places like the STEM charter at Howard, then to Banneker or McKinley would say. Anyone in that group have thoughts?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A better way for DCPS to compete for middle school students would be to limit access to DCPS selective high schools exclusively to graduates of DCPS middle school programs.

This is worth considering for the impact on UMC white families and Hill middle schools though I wonder what parents (mostly black families) who send their kids to places like the STEM charter at Howard, then to Banneker or McKinley would say. Anyone in that group have thoughts?

That school is a disaster academically, especially in math, and I have no idea why someone would choose it as prep for Banneker and McKinley.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We know a bunch of Hill families of students who went through Stuart Hobson, now in HS (mostly at Walls) or college, who seem to be doing just fine. Some of these SH grads attend elite SLACs, Amherst, Middlebury, Swarthmore. We also know Brent students who went through Jefferson Academy and Maury students who went through Eliot-Hine, now top students at Walls or Banneker. These families coped and supplemented uncomplainingly, living their values by sending their children to neighborhood middle schools to stay in the community they love. More power to them. We've known these sweet kids since they were tiny tots. Come on, middle school is a tough age no matter where kids land. Our family isn't OK with DCPS after ES so we choose a parochial MS, but I'm not going to slam fellow Hill parents for having made a different choice, coming here to accuse them of poor parenting.

lol. they only “lived their values” because their kids got into Walls …

Also, they "lived their values"...by having the money to pay for private as a backup in case Walls didn't work out.

I think it is great if people want to send their kids to SH, of Jefferson or any other school. What is just dumb is people who make that about some larger social point, instead of what it is: parents making the best decision for their kid in light of their individual circumstances. This is the same old DCUM two step:

Poster #1: I choose public schools because charter schools are evil and people who send their kids there are evil and intentionally destabilizing schools. Also, I am also morally superior.

Poster #2: I send my kid to [BASIS/Latin] because I want to guarantee them a quality HS education and I can't afford private schools. SH is not an option for me because it does not offer truly advanced classes and has no guaranteed HS feed.

Poster #1: SH is an excellent school. A great school. A fine school. As long as you supplement out of pocket to keep your kid on grade level. Never mind that though, because people like you who don't have money to supplement or to afford private HS are entitled and. In fact your unwillingness to put your kid's future at risk to improve schools for the greater good is responsible for the fact that SH and other schools aren't great. The only possible explanation for you wanting a guaranteed HS path is hatred of public schools. Why don't people less entitled than me understand how much damage they are doing by putting their kids first?

Poster #2: So with all your moral superiority and commitment to public schools, are you going to send your kid to Eastern if they aren't admitted to Walls?

Poster #1: H*LL NO! If we don't get into walls we'll pay for private or move to a new state. Now let me lecture you some more about how you are destabilizing public education.

[Scene]

Spot on parody!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One big problem for the Hill middle schools is that 5th is the only significant entry year for Latin and Basis. You can always “try” Latin or Basis for a year or two and then switch back to your in-bound middle school. But you cannot do the reverse. This results in a lot of people with some inclination to attend the nearby school gradually deciding to at least participate in the 5th grade charter school lottery and then further deciding to try Latin/Basis for 5th grade. Repeat.

100%. The biggest change I’d like to see to DC schools is ending DCPS & charter ESes in the same year. The current model is absurd and terrible for DCPS, which should frankly be the priority.

That said, this is exactly us. Our IB is SH and we’re actually not sure if we’d prefer it or BASIS, but will send our kid to BASIS if we lottery in, because if she hates it, she could still not only go to SH but start on time.

Yes, and? It is called school choice, not design your own school. You have an option to match at BASIS or Latin in 5th. You also have an option to return to SH if you are unhappy. What is laughable is the ignorance of your unbridled privilege in having SH as a fall back and objecting to BASIS and Latin having the audacity to cater to all kids in DC, and not just those privileged enough to be IB for SH.

The point is that it's a bad design for school choice for what's best for DC overall. It creates an added incentive for kids to leave their IB schools that is bad for DC overall. My whole point is that I will take advantage of it and it is, in fact, good for me personally (i.e., despite what you say, it *does* cater for SH families with good lottery luck). But it is not good for DC. In any case, I don't fault BASIS or Latin at all for starting in 5th when it's an available option. I fault the city for setting it up that way. (And FWIW I would also be fine with all DCPS / DCPCS middle schools starting in 5th instead, I just think the two different entry years is a bad model. DC *has* moved towards standardizing entry and exit years at DCPSes, they should just do it for DCPCSes as well.)

Your self-centeredness astounds. You view the world through the prism of your own experience and opportunity. BASIS and Latin do NOT exist for the benefit and pleasure of SH. You want kids to remain in 5th at their ES because your ES is good (for you). There are a lot of ES in DC that kids cannot escape fast enough. You can't see that with your "me" blinders on. You see only your path, your ES, your SH path.

You are also ignorant of actual enrollment data. Yes, there are a lot of SH catchment kids at BASIS and Latin. But, notwithstanding what your neighbors tell you, it isn't remotely comprised of all those kids. Not remotely. I find it amusing that you and the Deal/JR/W3 fool both have impressions of BASIS and Latin that don't reflect reality. Yet you both speak with certainty formed from your own experience and and hubris and ignorance that simply won't let you for a moment consider that not everyone is you or your similalry situated neighbors.

You don't seem great at reading comprehension. The part you bolded and what you replied with have almost nothing to do with each other. I said that the current approach *was* good for families w/ passable DCPS MS options (including, FWIW, Deal) & good lottery luck, but not for others. You appear to think I said the opposite. Schools having 50% turnover in the final year of ES are good for no one, least of all the students left behind. I also noted that I'd be equally happy with DCPSes ending in 4th, so I'm not looking to necessarily keep kids in DCPS ES longer. That said, you don't even once think about the kids who want to "escape" to charter MSes and can't, so if anyone has blinders it's you. There is literally not a single word in what you wrote that explains why it benefits they system to have different starting years for MSes.

Nope. Yet again you chime in to prove to us that you understand only your own experience and ES school options. There are a LOT of kids in ES in DC who benefit greatly from getting out ASAP. This is what you seem unable to comprehend. We get it; YOUR school is harmed by kids leaving in 5th. YOUR school would be filled with kids at or above grade level if those kids remained. That it not how it is for everyone and BASIS and Latin are not designed merely for people with your options and privilege.

This has now been explained to you several times, yet you cannot see it or anything beyond your world view and experience. It is sad and funny. But mostly sad.

I don’t understand how changing the starting year for BASIS and Latin prevents kids from getting out of bad elementary schools in fifth grade. You could still lottery to a different school in 5th grade if you want, just not those two.

I thought turnover at 5th grade was bad for EVERYONE.

Awww, you beat me to it! Funny how they went from "bad for everyone" to "they can just leave for 5th somewhere else". The reason, as we all can see, that they are ok with kids leaving for 5th grade from other schools but not their own is that they like their 5th grade option, so they want to leave the option to get the benefit of BASIS/Latin without having to forego their 5th grade ES. Also, would they care to tell us which excellent 5th grade options are available to people in failing ES if BASIS/Latin are not available? I'll wait.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A better way for DCPS to compete for middle school students would be to limit access to DCPS selective high schools exclusively to graduates of DCPS middle school programs.

This is worth considering for the impact on UMC white families and Hill middle schools though I wonder what parents (mostly black families) who send their kids to places like the STEM charter at Howard, then to Banneker or McKinley would say. Anyone in that group have thoughts?

That school is a disaster academically, especially in math, and I have no idea why someone would choose it as prep for Banneker and McKinley.

Yes, as someone "in that group," I would imagine sending to your DCPS middle would be better and just making sure they are prepared for high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One big problem for the Hill middle schools is that 5th is the only significant entry year for Latin and Basis. You can always “try” Latin or Basis for a year or two and then switch back to your in-bound middle school. But you cannot do the reverse. This results in a lot of people with some inclination to attend the nearby school gradually deciding to at least participate in the 5th grade charter school lottery and then further deciding to try Latin/Basis for 5th grade. Repeat.

100%. The biggest change I’d like to see to DC schools is ending DCPS & charter ESes in the same year. The current model is absurd and terrible for DCPS, which should frankly be the priority.

That said, this is exactly us. Our IB is SH and we’re actually not sure if we’d prefer it or BASIS, but will send our kid to BASIS if we lottery in, because if she hates it, she could still not only go to SH but start on time.

Yes, and? It is called school choice, not design your own school. You have an option to match at BASIS or Latin in 5th. You also have an option to return to SH if you are unhappy. What is laughable is the ignorance of your unbridled privilege in having SH as a fall back and objecting to BASIS and Latin having the audacity to cater to all kids in DC, and not just those privileged enough to be IB for SH.

The point is that it's a bad design for school choice for what's best for DC overall. It creates an added incentive for kids to leave their IB schools that is bad for DC overall. My whole point is that I will take advantage of it and it is, in fact, good for me personally (i.e., despite what you say, it *does* cater for SH families with good lottery luck). But it is not good for DC. In any case, I don't fault BASIS or Latin at all for starting in 5th when it's an available option. I fault the city for setting it up that way. (And FWIW I would also be fine with all DCPS / DCPCS middle schools starting in 5th instead, I just think the two different entry years is a bad model. DC *has* moved towards standardizing entry and exit years at DCPSes, they should just do it for DCPCSes as well.)

Your self-centeredness astounds. You view the world through the prism of your own experience and opportunity. BASIS and Latin do NOT exist for the benefit and pleasure of SH. You want kids to remain in 5th at their ES because your ES is good (for you). There are a lot of ES in DC that kids cannot escape fast enough. You can't see that with your "me" blinders on. You see only your path, your ES, your SH path.

You are also ignorant of actual enrollment data. Yes, there are a lot of SH catchment kids at BASIS and Latin. But, notwithstanding what your neighbors tell you, it isn't remotely comprised of all those kids. Not remotely. I find it amusing that you and the Deal/JR/W3 fool both have impressions of BASIS and Latin that don't reflect reality. Yet you both speak with certainty formed from your own experience and and hubris and ignorance that simply won't let you for a moment consider that not everyone is you or your similalry situated neighbors.

You don't seem great at reading comprehension. The part you bolded and what you replied with have almost nothing to do with each other. I said that the current approach *was* good for families w/ passable DCPS MS options (including, FWIW, Deal) & good lottery luck, but not for others. You appear to think I said the opposite. Schools having 50% turnover in the final year of ES are good for no one, least of all the students left behind. I also noted that I'd be equally happy with DCPSes ending in 4th, so I'm not looking to necessarily keep kids in DCPS ES longer. That said, you don't even once think about the kids who want to "escape" to charter MSes and can't, so if anyone has blinders it's you. There is literally not a single word in what you wrote that explains why it benefits they system to have different starting years for MSes.

Nope. Yet again you chime in to prove to us that you understand only your own experience and ES school options. There are a LOT of kids in ES in DC who benefit greatly from getting out ASAP. This is what you seem unable to comprehend. We get it; YOUR school is harmed by kids leaving in 5th. YOUR school would be filled with kids at or above grade level if those kids remained. That it not how it is for everyone and BASIS and Latin are not designed merely for people with your options and privilege.

This has now been explained to you several times, yet you cannot see it or anything beyond your world view and experience. It is sad and funny. But mostly sad.

I don’t understand how changing the starting year for BASIS and Latin prevents kids from getting out of bad elementary schools in fifth grade. You could still lottery to a different school in 5th grade if you want, just not those two.

I thought turnover at 5th grade was bad for EVERYONE.

Awww, you beat me to it! Funny how they went from "bad for everyone" to "they can just leave for 5th somewhere else". The reason, as we all can see, that they are ok with kids leaving for 5th grade from other schools but not their own is that they like their 5th grade option, so they want to leave the option to get the benefit of BASIS/Latin without having to forego their 5th grade ES. Also, would they care to tell us which excellent 5th grade options are available to people in failing ES if BASIS/Latin are not available? I'll wait.

There are no wait lists at any of the Stuart Hobson feeders in fifth grade. You could go to Watkins, Ludlow Taylor or JO Wilson and have a guarantee for Stuart Hobson.

My kid went to BASIS, and I needed to get my kid out of a failing school in fifth grade, and I *still* think BASIS and Latin are benefiting be creaming at fifth grade in a crappy way. It disadvantages kids without savvy parents. I don’t have that opinion because I wanted to keep my kid in their elementary school for fifth, I definitely did not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One big problem for the Hill middle schools is that 5th is the only significant entry year for Latin and Basis. You can always “try” Latin or Basis for a year or two and then switch back to your in-bound middle school. But you cannot do the reverse. This results in a lot of people with some inclination to attend the nearby school gradually deciding to at least participate in the 5th grade charter school lottery and then further deciding to try Latin/Basis for 5th grade. Repeat.

100%. The biggest change I’d like to see to DC schools is ending DCPS & charter ESes in the same year. The current model is absurd and terrible for DCPS, which should frankly be the priority.

That said, this is exactly us. Our IB is SH and we’re actually not sure if we’d prefer it or BASIS, but will send our kid to BASIS if we lottery in, because if she hates it, she could still not only go to SH but start on time.

Yes, and? It is called school choice, not design your own school. You have an option to match at BASIS or Latin in 5th. You also have an option to return to SH if you are unhappy. What is laughable is the ignorance of your unbridled privilege in having SH as a fall back and objecting to BASIS and Latin having the audacity to cater to all kids in DC, and not just those privileged enough to be IB for SH.

The point is that it's a bad design for school choice for what's best for DC overall. It creates an added incentive for kids to leave their IB schools that is bad for DC overall. My whole point is that I will take advantage of it and it is, in fact, good for me personally (i.e., despite what you say, it *does* cater for SH families with good lottery luck). But it is not good for DC. In any case, I don't fault BASIS or Latin at all for starting in 5th when it's an available option. I fault the city for setting it up that way. (And FWIW I would also be fine with all DCPS / DCPCS middle schools starting in 5th instead, I just think the two different entry years is a bad model. DC *has* moved towards standardizing entry and exit years at DCPSes, they should just do it for DCPCSes as well.)

Your self-centeredness astounds. You view the world through the prism of your own experience and opportunity. BASIS and Latin do NOT exist for the benefit and pleasure of SH. You want kids to remain in 5th at their ES because your ES is good (for you). There are a lot of ES in DC that kids cannot escape fast enough. You can't see that with your "me" blinders on. You see only your path, your ES, your SH path.

You are also ignorant of actual enrollment data. Yes, there are a lot of SH catchment kids at BASIS and Latin. But, notwithstanding what your neighbors tell you, it isn't remotely comprised of all those kids. Not remotely. I find it amusing that you and the Deal/JR/W3 fool both have impressions of BASIS and Latin that don't reflect reality. Yet you both speak with certainty formed from your own experience and and hubris and ignorance that simply won't let you for a moment consider that not everyone is you or your similalry situated neighbors.

You don't seem great at reading comprehension. The part you bolded and what you replied with have almost nothing to do with each other. I said that the current approach *was* good for families w/ passable DCPS MS options (including, FWIW, Deal) & good lottery luck, but not for others. You appear to think I said the opposite. Schools having 50% turnover in the final year of ES are good for no one, least of all the students left behind. I also noted that I'd be equally happy with DCPSes ending in 4th, so I'm not looking to necessarily keep kids in DCPS ES longer. That said, you don't even once think about the kids who want to "escape" to charter MSes and can't, so if anyone has blinders it's you. There is literally not a single word in what you wrote that explains why it benefits they system to have different starting years for MSes.

Nope. Yet again you chime in to prove to us that you understand only your own experience and ES school options. There are a LOT of kids in ES in DC who benefit greatly from getting out ASAP. This is what you seem unable to comprehend. We get it; YOUR school is harmed by kids leaving in 5th. YOUR school would be filled with kids at or above grade level if those kids remained. That it not how it is for everyone and BASIS and Latin are not designed merely for people with your options and privilege.

This has now been explained to you several times, yet you cannot see it or anything beyond your world view and experience. It is sad and funny. But mostly sad.

I don’t understand how changing the starting year for BASIS and Latin prevents kids from getting out of bad elementary schools in fifth grade. You could still lottery to a different school in 5th grade if you want, just not those two.

I thought turnover at 5th grade was bad for EVERYONE.

Awww, you beat me to it! Funny how they went from "bad for everyone" to "they can just leave for 5th somewhere else". The reason, as we all can see, that they are ok with kids leaving for 5th grade from other schools but not their own is that they like their 5th grade option, so they want to leave the option to get the benefit of BASIS/Latin without having to forego their 5th grade ES. Also, would they care to tell us which excellent 5th grade options are available to people in failing ES if BASIS/Latin are not available? I'll wait.

That was a different poster. I do think the system should be designed to minimize turnover to the extent possible. That said, it’s different to leave a particular failing school than it is to design a system so lots of people leave schools they like. The latter is obviously a problem. For 5th, you can get into 2 of the 3 SH feeders for certain (JOW/Watkins); the other, usually (L-T).