Why are people more sympathetic to Lindsay Clancy than Andrea Yates? (Child death mentioned)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have to say that whilst I almost never wish ill on others, there are some posters commenting in this thread who are so absent compassion that I almost wish they would wake up in a few years to a teenager with a diagnosis of schizophrenia so they could spend the next several decades learning what psychotic disorder can do to the brain of a person they love. Or would they still love them?

Blah, blah, blah. Stop defending and making excuses for baby murderers.

People like you are everything that’s wrong with this world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have to say that whilst I almost never wish ill on others, there are some posters commenting in this thread who are so absent compassion that I almost wish they would wake up in a few years to a teenager with a diagnosis of schizophrenia so they could spend the next several decades learning what psychotic disorder can do to the brain of a person they love. Or would they still love them?

How kind. I have mental illness in my family, possibly even my child, and I try my best to get them the help they need. My mentally ill family members are men though, so no one seems to give a crap. It’s a lifelong struggle for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have to say that whilst I almost never wish ill on others, there are some posters commenting in this thread who are so absent compassion that I almost wish they would wake up in a few years to a teenager with a diagnosis of schizophrenia so they could spend the next several decades learning what psychotic disorder can do to the brain of a person they love. Or would they still love them?

How kind. I have mental illness in my family, possibly even my child, and I try my best to get them the help they need. My mentally ill family members are men though, so no one seems to give a crap. It’s a lifelong struggle for them.

^that being said, I don’t think we can excuse and blame mental illness on Lindsay Clancy waiting until her husband left to commit murder. My mentally ill family members have no inhibitions and that’s what’s so difficult, they do embarrassing and wildly inappropriate things in front of anyone, anywhere. They don’t wait until they are alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have to say that whilst I almost never wish ill on others, there are some posters commenting in this thread who are so absent compassion that I almost wish they would wake up in a few years to a teenager with a diagnosis of schizophrenia so they could spend the next several decades learning what psychotic disorder can do to the brain of a person they love. Or would they still love them?

How kind. I have mental illness in my family, possibly even my child, and I try my best to get them the help they need. My mentally ill family members are men though, so no one seems to give a crap. It’s a lifelong struggle for them.

^that being said, I don’t think we can excuse and blame mental illness on Lindsay Clancy waiting until her husband left to commit murder. My mentally ill family members have no inhibitions and that’s what’s so difficult, they do embarrassing and wildly inappropriate things in front of anyone, anywhere. They don’t wait until they are alone.

Do you feel better having gotten out your rapid string of 7 low effort posts first thing in the morning? With a dose of “what about the mennnnnnn” in there too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have to say that whilst I almost never wish ill on others, there are some posters commenting in this thread who are so absent compassion that I almost wish they would wake up in a few years to a teenager with a diagnosis of schizophrenia so they could spend the next several decades learning what psychotic disorder can do to the brain of a person they love. Or would they still love them?

How kind. I have mental illness in my family, possibly even my child, and I try my best to get them the help they need. My mentally ill family members are men though, so no one seems to give a crap. It’s a lifelong struggle for them.

^that being said, I don’t think we can excuse and blame mental illness on Lindsay Clancy waiting until her husband left to commit murder. My mentally ill family members have no inhibitions and that’s what’s so difficult, they do embarrassing and wildly inappropriate things in front of anyone, anywhere. They don’t wait until they are alone.

Do you feel better having gotten out your rapid string of 7 low effort posts first thing in the morning? With a dose of “what about the mennnnnnn” in there too?

I have empathy for Lindsay’s kids and husband. I’m not really buying the mental illness excuse here. We need to go back and let many mass/school murderers out of jail and place them in mental hospitals if this is the case.

[Anonymous]

Even if she had premeditation and intentionally waited for him to leave (both of which I believe are true) that doesn’t mean that she didn’t have some kind of mental illness. I think we can all agree the L&D nurse who birthed these kids was not in the same mental state as the woman who killed them. Does that make her NG by reason of insanity? That is for the courts to decide. But she didn’t just wake up one day completely sane and say “eff this.” Was it brewing for a long time? Did she have too high expectations for herself and her family? Did she mask symptoms from others? All possible. And some of these questions may never been answered. My feelings are very mixed - I’m not all on one side or the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Even if she had premeditation and intentionally waited for him to leave (both of which I believe are true) that doesn’t mean that she didn’t have some kind of mental illness. I think we can all agree the L&D nurse who birthed these kids was not in the same mental state as the woman who killed them. Does that make her NG by reason of insanity? That is for the courts to decide. But she didn’t just wake up one day completely sane and say “eff this.” Was it brewing for a long time? Did she have too high expectations for herself and her family? Did she mask symptoms from others? All possible. And some of these questions may never been answered. My feelings are very mixed - I’m not all on one side or the other.

We need to know the circumstances prior to the husband leaving to supposedly pick up food. How was her mental state before he left? Was there an argument? Was she calmly sitting there feeding the baby? This is very pertinent information imo, to help determine the line between mental illness and just evil.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have to say that whilst I almost never wish ill on others, there are some posters commenting in this thread who are so absent compassion that I almost wish they would wake up in a few years to a teenager with a diagnosis of schizophrenia so they could spend the next several decades learning what psychotic disorder can do to the brain of a person they love. Or would they still love them?

How kind. I have mental illness in my family, possibly even my child, and I try my best to get them the help they need. My mentally ill family members are men though, so no one seems to give a crap. It’s a lifelong struggle for them.

^that being said, I don’t think we can excuse and blame mental illness on Lindsay Clancy waiting until her husband left to commit murder. My mentally ill family members have no inhibitions and that’s what’s so difficult, they do embarrassing and wildly inappropriate things in front of anyone, anywhere. They don’t wait until they are alone.

There are a range of mental illnesses and a range of typical behaviors in mental illness. Lack of inhibition is one of them. One could argue that succumbing to psychotic symptoms and killing your kids exhibits a lack of inhibition. Hmm?

Andrea Yates was psychotic when she drowned her five children, waiting until her husband left for work to accomplish the task. The state acknowledges that she was seriously mentally ill and not criminally culpable. I don’t know how to explain it further to help you understand that psychotic disorder does not render a person incapable of evaluating circumstances and overcoming obstacles, the issue is that the brain is LYING to the person and the person has a good faith belief that their actions are appropriate having accepted the lie as the truth.

Please, read some reputable sources on psychosis and try to get beyond your limitations.

[Anonymous]

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/understanding-psychosis#part_6513

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have to say that whilst I almost never wish ill on others, there are some posters commenting in this thread who are so absent compassion that I almost wish they would wake up in a few years to a teenager with a diagnosis of schizophrenia so they could spend the next several decades learning what psychotic disorder can do to the brain of a person they love. Or would they still love them?

How kind. I have mental illness in my family, possibly even my child, and I try my best to get them the help they need. My mentally ill family members are men though, so no one seems to give a crap. It’s a lifelong struggle for them.

^that being said, I don’t think we can excuse and blame mental illness on Lindsay Clancy waiting until her husband left to commit murder. My mentally ill family members have no inhibitions and that’s what’s so difficult, they do embarrassing and wildly inappropriate things in front of anyone, anywhere. They don’t wait until they are alone.

Do you feel better having gotten out your rapid string of 7 low effort posts first thing in the morning? With a dose of “what about the mennnnnnn” in there too?

I have empathy for Lindsay’s kids and husband. I’m not really buying the mental illness excuse here. We need to go back and let many mass/school murderers out of jail and place them in mental hospitals if this is the case.

The law differentiates between mental illness and the legal definition of insanity.

[Anonymous]

This thread and the comments in it is bringing to mind the case of that poor kid in Florida who descended into psychosis while his parents tried to ‘tough love’ his symptoms into nonexistence. He became floridly psychotic and murdered two innocent bystanders while he walked down the street one night. There is no real question as to his insanity at the time of the attack, but not ten minutes earlier he was totally lucid in conversation with his father at dinner. Psychosis is unpredictable and in some ways inexplicable.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/11/30/florida-man-insane-killed-couple-not-guilty-ate-face/10803097002/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread and the comments in it is bringing to mind the case of that poor kid in Florida who descended into psychosis while his parents tried to ‘tough love’ his symptoms into nonexistence. He became floridly psychotic and murdered two innocent bystanders while he walked down the street one night. There is no real question as to his insanity at the time of the attack, but not ten minutes earlier he was totally lucid in conversation with his father at dinner. Psychosis is unpredictable and in some ways inexplicable.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/11/30/florida-man-insane-killed-couple-not-guilty-ate-face/10803097002/

But here’s the issue with this. If we can’t ever predict when it’s going to occur, then these people can never be free again because we never know if or when they could snap into psychosis again. We can’t rely on experts to say they are safe, because clearly the experts thought Lindsay was.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread and the comments in it is bringing to mind the case of that poor kid in Florida who descended into psychosis while his parents tried to ‘tough love’ his symptoms into nonexistence. He became floridly psychotic and murdered two innocent bystanders while he walked down the street one night. There is no real question as to his insanity at the time of the attack, but not ten minutes earlier he was totally lucid in conversation with his father at dinner. Psychosis is unpredictable and in some ways inexplicable.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/11/30/florida-man-insane-killed-couple-not-guilty-ate-face/10803097002/

But here’s the issue with this. If we can’t ever predict when it’s going to occur, then these people can never be free again because we never know if or when they could snap into psychosis again. We can’t rely on experts to say they are safe, because clearly the experts thought Lindsay was.

I don’t entirely disagree with your assessment.

When I was a prosecutor one of my most interesting experiences was presenting the states case in a hearing on whether to release a patient from the state mental hospital who had committed a double murder in my jurisdiction twenty years previously and had been adjudicated not guilty by reason of insanity. She killed her father and stepmother as they slept in their bed one night - the pictures were heartbreaking - and she was captured by police in another state fleeing from the same people she thought were out to get her when she killed her dad and stepmom. She was floridly psychotic and there was no evidence she had any motive to kill her dad. After ~twenty years at the state hospital the psychiatrists had determined she was no longer a danger to herself or others and was recovered from her mental illness sufficiently to be released into the world subject to the requirement that she take a monthly injection of an antipsychotic drug. I argued that there were insufficient protections in place to ensure she got that shot every month because if she skipped it could take the state weeks or months to find her (any given day there are hundreds of people out on active warrants) and she could become floridly psychotic and homicidal in the interim.

I didn’t disagree with the judge who determined she should be released. Ultimately if we believe in treatment and rehabilitation we have to put our money where our mouth is. There are risks of danger from many things in life and we have to balance the risks with other societal benefits, including preserving and protecting the civil liberties of people who have suffered mental illness and recovered.

So far John Hinckley hasn’t put a foot wrong. Should he still be at St. Elizabeth’s? Forever?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lindsay Clancy chose to have three children, that is one major difference between her and Andrea Yates. Andrea Yates was in a dysfunctional, abusive relationship, as far as we know Pat Clancy was not an abusive husband. I have trouble feeling empathy towards Lindsay Clancy especially if she had PPD with her previous pregnancies. If she had issues with the first two, why risk it a third time? At the very least, this is poor decision making. I strongly feel she was a victim of our appearance obsessed society. She didn’t need three babies, who really does honestly? Especially, especially, if she suffered from PPD with the first or second. It makes zero sense. They were the super couple, super parents, like most of us on social media like to portray. It’s dangerous, we aren’t really present in our lives and making rational, thought out decisions. I believe both parents, Lindsay and Patrick were delusional. Not solely due to PPD but due to our filtered, sugar coated image obsessed society. They don’t know any different. She was living a lie so to speak and when reality hit her she snapped.

+1 I agree that social media contributed and it’s telling that her husband seems so worried about what complete strangers on the internet think. He is begging random strangers to “forgive” her because she really is the perfect wife and mother. Give me a break. She really isn’t different from any psychotic murderer except that she brutally killed her children in probably the most horrific way imaginable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread and the comments in it is bringing to mind the case of that poor kid in Florida who descended into psychosis while his parents tried to ‘tough love’ his symptoms into nonexistence. He became floridly psychotic and murdered two innocent bystanders while he walked down the street one night. There is no real question as to his insanity at the time of the attack, but not ten minutes earlier he was totally lucid in conversation with his father at dinner. Psychosis is unpredictable and in some ways inexplicable.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/11/30/florida-man-insane-killed-couple-not-guilty-ate-face/10803097002/

But here’s the issue with this. If we can’t ever predict when it’s going to occur, then these people can never be free again because we never know if or when they could snap into psychosis again. We can’t rely on experts to say they are safe, because clearly the experts thought Lindsay was.

I don’t entirely disagree with your assessment.

When I was a prosecutor one of my most interesting experiences was presenting the states case in a hearing on whether to release a patient from the state mental hospital who had committed a double murder in my jurisdiction twenty years previously and had been adjudicated not guilty by reason of insanity. She killed her father and stepmother as they slept in their bed one night - the pictures were heartbreaking - and she was captured by police in another state fleeing from the same people she thought were out to get her when she killed her dad and stepmom. She was floridly psychotic and there was no evidence she had any motive to kill her dad. After ~twenty years at the state hospital the psychiatrists had determined she was no longer a danger to herself or others and was recovered from her mental illness sufficiently to be released into the world subject to the requirement that she take a monthly injection of an antipsychotic drug. I argued that there were insufficient protections in place to ensure she got that shot every month because if she skipped it could take the state weeks or months to find her (any given day there are hundreds of people out on active warrants) and she could become floridly psychotic and homicidal in the interim.

I didn’t disagree with the judge who determined she should be released. Ultimately if we believe in treatment and rehabilitation we have to put our money where our mouth is. There are risks of danger from many things in life and we have to balance the risks with other societal benefits, including preserving and protecting the civil liberties of people who have suffered mental illness and recovered.

So far John Hinckley hasn’t put a foot wrong. Should he still be at St. Elizabeth’s? Forever?

But does a monthly shot of haldol make one recovered? We are lazy and too lenient when it comes to mental illness. Please, bring back the mental institutions, sadly some people never should be free. They are a danger to others and themselves until they no longer roam this earth.