Started working at an elementary school last week. Shocked and sad. AMA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yea, this is why I spend a small fortune for my kids to go to a private school wtih classroom sizes no larger than 12 kids of which NONE are special needs or emotionally disturbed. Its all about having them in a peaceful learning environment and not having to be subjecte to kids who really should be in a contained classroom.

Inclusion classrooms are disrubtive.

Exhibit A of the intolerance and bigotry against all SN kids. Not just behavior issues, she said it directly here. Special needs.

To PP, shame on you.

DP.

“Your liberty to swing your fist ends just where my nose begins.”

We don’t have to de okay with SN accommodations having a negative affect on other children. Of that is what happens every day, and we are allowed to balk. If that offends you, IDGAF.

You're all very brave behind your anonymous posts. Bravo, warrior.

Bring it bubba

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yea, this is why I spend a small fortune for my kids to go to a private school wtih classroom sizes no larger than 12 kids of which NONE are special needs or emotionally disturbed. Its all about having them in a peaceful learning environment and not having to be subjecte to kids who really should be in a contained classroom.

Inclusion classrooms are disrubtive.

Exhibit A of the intolerance and bigotry against all SN kids. Not just behavior issues, she said it directly here. Special needs.

To PP, shame on you.

DP.

“Your liberty to swing your fist ends just where my nose begins.”

We don’t have to de okay with SN accommodations having a negative affect on other children. Of that is what happens every day, and we are allowed to balk. If that offends you, IDGAF.

You're all very brave behind your anonymous posts. Bravo, warrior.

Bring it bubba

What? LOL. Grow up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No child left behind REALLY screwed so many kids. It hasn't helped kids avoid being academically left behind. And "least restrictive environment" isn't helpful when the kid is verbally disruptive.

+1 Very rarely will non-teachers admit this. But NCLB/IDEA/FAPE ruined public schools in the US. The Federal Government and Congress like the publicity of “helping everyone” but provided no funding. So then all children suffer.

I’m so sick of people claiming there’s “no funding” or “not enough funding” in our schools. Schools in DC spend literally more than $22k per year per kid, average. Some are obviously a lot more. Schools in Florida spend $9k and that’s still high, relatively speaking. Other Western countries spend WAY less than we do in the US. People need to start acknowledging that if an average of $22k/year isn’t enough to get all students meeting a basic grade level standard then money is NOT the problem and more money is NOT the answer.

They can start by getting all the disruptive kids out of our classrooms and back into special facilities that are equipped (no scissors, yes metal detectors, yes guards) and trained (staff with personal defense training plus deescalation techniques etc plus aides floating around) to handle them.

The problem is the students and the parents. Not the schools. Schools don’t need more money or more anything. They need less of the thing that’s destroying them, which is disruptive students.

I'm from Europe. Part of the reason why I stayed here for good (or until I retire, at least) is that my first child was born with special needs and I knew my home country's education system had nothing for him. NOTHING. Parents of autistic kids in my country often become indigent because they cannot go to work because their kids cannot go to school!!! Please let that sink in. OF COURSE PUBLIC EDUCATION COSTS ARE LOWER WHEN YOU DON'T ACCOMMODATE THE CHILDREN WHO NEED MORE CARE. European public school systems are narrowly focused on the middle range of achievers. There is no gifted education. No special needs education. Teachers are rigid and expect children to adapt to their teaching style. Here in America it's the opposite, where teachers are trained to adapt to children's learning styles. It's a completely different philosophy. If only we could have the best of both worlds: European educational rigor, with American child-centered focus and attention paid to both extremes of development.

Americans do not realize how economically-sound their public school system really is, thanks to IDEA. It allows parents of kids with special needs to place them safely where there is the least likelihood of abuse (institutions and special schools are notorious for that), harbor some hope they will progress and become independent one day, and it allows them to contribute to the economy and maintain a certain level of dignity. I am incredibly grateful for that federal law, its particular implementation in Montgomery County, and our professional ability to get visas to stay here. We pay all of our taxes in the US, thanks to an agreement between my home country and the USA, so we are stakeholders too, despite not being citizens. We pay into the system just like you.

Now does the current system always work? No. I have witnessed massive disruption to classes when one child has behaviors that stop instruction and bother other children. The push for LRE is misguided. I know many parents of kids with special needs WHO DO NOT WANT LEAST RESTRICTIVE EDUCATION. It is applied to the extreme in cases where a child could never hope to gain anything from a mainstream classroom, because it is the least expensive option. I personally know parents who have fought their public school system to place their kids in more restrictive environments, but there are limited in seats and some are very expensive for the County, if they need specialized private schools that the County pays for. Some reasonably well-off parents choose to homeschool instead.

The American philosophy of meeting each child where they are is in my mind the pinnacle of a civilized society. You should be proud of your country in that regard. No other country in the world has pushed as far as the USA to include every child in its public education effort. It has lifted many families out of poverty because they could finally go to work, and it has trained children who might otherwise never had received a degree to be functional and employable. PLEASE FACTOR THIS INTO YOUR FINANCIAL CALCULATIONS.

We just need to tweak it. Surely we can do that.

It's very true that the US educational system is great compared to most others when it comes to significant disabilities, like autism. However, that's a pretty small subset of children, and you need to understand that serving special needs populations as well as we do results in negative effects for the majority of other children.

Surely you're intelligent enough to understand that the inclusion of all children benefits more than the autistic subset. We're talking about all sorts of developmental delays, the giant ADHD group, the dyslexics, dyscalculics, dysgraphics, the kids with impaired hearing or impaired sight, those in wheelchairs, the giant anxiety group, those with depression, bipolar disorders, and other psychiatric ailments. There are a kids with chronic physical diseases whose treatment needs perturb their education, there are kids with cancer, particularly around NIH, because their families have the right to enroll their kids in nearby MCPS schools while their child is being treated there. I knew of a child with a specific short-term memory issue. There are so many children with varying needs!!!

Please realize that special needs come in all sorts of future options: there are kids with mild special needs who will go on to be very traditionally successful; those with moderate needs that can be perfectly functional and independent as adults; and those that will never be independent but who can be socialized and taught to advocate for themselves in some measure to make their lives safer (always a critical issue with the latter cohort). The range of functionality and futures runs the gamut!

Educating these children is making sure they are not a burden, or as light a burden as possible, to YOUR children when they're all adults and paying taxes. You've got to stop being so short-sighted and selfish, PP.

I completely agree with you that the current system can be detrimental to certain kids if they're unlucky enough to be in the class with a habitual disrupter. My kids have been in those classes. But despite one of them having an IEP himself, my kids are both functional enough to power through and be successful no matter who is in their class. The burden they bear is NOTHING compared to the burden the disrupter bears.

I support efforts to change the system just enough that children and teachers can be protected and shielded from the worse behaviors of certain perturbed children - everyone in that situation deserves better, most of all, the perturbed child themselves!

But DO NOT imply that our society should stop including and helping the immense numbers of children with special needs. One of them might cure your cancer one day. They are not all cognitively impaired, you know. Some of them are very bright indeed. My husband has ADHD/Asperger's, he has an MD and a PhD and works in cancer research. I know what I'm talking about.

::Standing ovation::

+1 Agree with all of this. I think we need to do two core things: 1) Prioritize universal design in all classrooms supporting the vast array of disabilities/needs, 2) streamline a process to get students who are very disruptive the care they need in a more restrictive environment. I think we need to work the budgets so that they payment and decision for that are not from the school but from a different fund. There are too many pressures to not pay for significant needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a bunch of dishonest fear mongering. I'm a mom who volunteers a lot in my kids schools. One of my kids has learning disabilities, they are mild. In 1st grade there was a mom who was so angry that a child with disabilities would be in her child's class, that she pulled her daughter out to homeschool her. She told me to my face that her kid shouldn't have to be in class with mine. My kid isn't intellectually disabled and doesn't have behavior issues. That shouldn't matter any way. You all are that mom.

You people who hate kids with disabilities need therapy.

So you met one nasty mom when your child was in first - and that’s awful. However, your argument is utterly without foundation if we’re talking about disruptions and evacuations. No one is “hating kids with disabilities” if they point out that a child that barricades themselves or makes violent threats is a problem and shouldn’t be ruining the school experience of many OTHER kids who are ALSO entitled to an education. It - and you - are so dishonest on that point!

Our country has since the Reagan presidency deliberately undercut school and other social service funding so unfortunately are who send to public legitimately feel they’re in a zero-sum game. But it’s actually refreshing to see people admit, even anonymously, that ODD and future conduct disorder Dx kids have no place nor innate right to terrify and ruin the educational opportunities of those around them. I have a feeling OP felt dismayed about the Newport News case, where that 6 year old almost killed his teacher. Lo and behind, super mom and super dad claim that their little sniper had “severe emotional disabilities.” To hell with ALL OF THEM and the administration. The non future murderer children have been traumatized, terrorized, were routinely evacuated, and after witnessing a teacher they probably were attatched to almost die, they miss a full 2 weeks of instruction after. But hey, LRE!

NO ONE is talking about your DD. No one is talking about dyslexia or OTs in class! Come on.

The administration at the school in Newport News ignored the warnings from teachers. You aren't going to see that in most schools. You are so dishonest in your attempt to make it seem like kids with behavior issues are in every class terrorizing your perfect children. Your hysterical view point is a threat to children with disabilities. The point of the previous post is that you crazy parents don't want your special snowflakes around ANY kids who may be different or in your minds, might slow down the class.

Your ignorance is not just annoying but dangerous for children with sns. There is a process for dealing with children like the one in NN. You have no idea what the parents were or were not doing. That area is known for being horrible wrt sns kids and the administration was probably not providing the supports required in the child's iep. This is on the administration.

Admit it the whole point of these posts is to segregate children with needs you don't understand.

Elementary teacher here. You are misinformed, I’m afraid, PP. Administrators EVERYWHERE are overwhelmed these days. Whether they willfully ignore requests for help with a student, or simply don’t have enough manpower and hours to cope with the host of serious issues, this ignoring of teachers l’ safety concerns happens all over. There is pressure coming from all directions to keep these students in the classroom and it’s an extremely lengthy and difficult process to have them placed in an alternate classroom or school. Sometimes finding the right combo of meds, therapy and family support improves things. But there are often casualties along the way. I have personally experienced harm from students and seen the fear other students can experience in the name of having to prove the need for alternative placement. I nearly lost eyesight in one eye after a disturbed student who was in this lengthy evaluation process tried to stab my eye with scissors. That experience has made every day since a 50/50 on whether it might be my last day teaching. So far I’m hanging in there because I’m a good teacher and students NEED caring, competent adults. But it’s not always easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yea, this is why I spend a small fortune for my kids to go to a private school wtih classroom sizes no larger than 12 kids of which NONE are special needs or emotionally disturbed. Its all about having them in a peaceful learning environment and not having to be subjecte to kids who really should be in a contained classroom.

Inclusion classrooms are disrubtive.

Exhibit A of the intolerance and bigotry against all SN kids. Not just behavior issues, she said it directly here. Special needs.

To PP, shame on you.

DP.

“Your liberty to swing your fist ends just where my nose begins.”

We don’t have to de okay with SN accommodations having a negative affect on other children. Of that is what happens every day, and we are allowed to balk. If that offends you, IDGAF.

You're all very brave behind your anonymous posts. Bravo, warrior.

I know you’re getting angry that you can’t bully people anymore into agreeing with you or at least pretending to, but you will just need to deal with that loss of power because voting in this country is also anonymous. Most parents of school children have started to see what goes on in schools in this country, and we want things to change. You can stamp your feet all you want but you can’t bully people into voting the way you want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yea, this is why I spend a small fortune for my kids to go to a private school wtih classroom sizes no larger than 12 kids of which NONE are special needs or emotionally disturbed. Its all about having them in a peaceful learning environment and not having to be subjecte to kids who really should be in a contained classroom.

Inclusion classrooms are disrubtive.

Exhibit A of the intolerance and bigotry against all SN kids. Not just behavior issues, she said it directly here. Special needs.

To PP, shame on you.

DP.

“Your liberty to swing your fist ends just where my nose begins.”

We don’t have to de okay with SN accommodations having a negative affect on other children. Of that is what happens every day, and we are allowed to balk. If that offends you, IDGAF.

You're all very brave behind your anonymous posts. Bravo, warrior.

I know you’re getting angry that you can’t bully people anymore into agreeing with you or at least pretending to, but you will just need to deal with that loss of power because voting in this country is also anonymous. Most parents of school children have started to see what goes on in schools in this country, and we want things to change. You can stamp your feet all you want but you can’t bully people into voting the way you want.

Are you on the wrong thread? Nobody is voting children off the island.

I presume that not one of you would stand up in public, say at a PTA meeting, and say out loud that you don't want SN kids in your school. Not behavior issues, SN.

But I could be wrong. Most of you are probably just as awful IRL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yea, this is why I spend a small fortune for my kids to go to a private school wtih classroom sizes no larger than 12 kids of which NONE are special needs or emotionally disturbed. Its all about having them in a peaceful learning environment and not having to be subjecte to kids who really should be in a contained classroom.

Inclusion classrooms are disrubtive.

Exhibit A of the intolerance and bigotry against all SN kids. Not just behavior issues, she said it directly here. Special needs.

To PP, shame on you.

DP.

“Your liberty to swing your fist ends just where my nose begins.”

We don’t have to de okay with SN accommodations having a negative affect on other children. Of that is what happens every day, and we are allowed to balk. If that offends you, IDGAF.

You're all very brave behind your anonymous posts. Bravo, warrior.

I know you’re getting angry that you can’t bully people anymore into agreeing with you or at least pretending to, but you will just need to deal with that loss of power because voting in this country is also anonymous. Most parents of school children have started to see what goes on in schools in this country, and we want things to change. You can stamp your feet all you want but you can’t bully people into voting the way you want.

Are you on the wrong thread? Nobody is voting children off the island.

I presume that not one of you would stand up in public, say at a PTA meeting, and say out loud that you don't want SN kids in your school. Not behavior issues, SN.

But I could be wrong. Most of you are probably just as awful IRL.

I would stand up and say that I don’t want any kids (SN or otherwise) with serious behavioral issues in my school. I’m not sure what your point is or why you keep trying to make the claim that everyone is coming after all SN kids who have dyslexia or whatever. It’s just not true.

And since it’s apparently a law that is forcing schools to keep disruptive kids in the mainstream schools, then yes, it is a voting issue. It’s not a game of survivor but voting is how we get laws changed in this country.

[Anonymous]

I’d vote for a candidate that supports removing kids with violent behavioral issues from classrooms. Teachers should have a safe working environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
+1 Agree with all of this. I think we need to do two core things: 1) Prioritize universal design in all classrooms supporting the vast array of disabilities/needs,

When a school system did that there was a post on here about how XX schools forced a teacher to take down a poster of MLK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yea, this is why I spend a small fortune for my kids to go to a private school wtih classroom sizes no larger than 12 kids of which NONE are special needs or emotionally disturbed. Its all about having them in a peaceful learning environment and not having to be subjecte to kids who really should be in a contained classroom.

Inclusion classrooms are disrubtive.

Exhibit A of the intolerance and bigotry against all SN kids. Not just behavior issues, she said it directly here. Special needs.

To PP, shame on you.

DP.

“Your liberty to swing your fist ends just where my nose begins.”

We don’t have to de okay with SN accommodations having a negative affect on other children. Of that is what happens every day, and we are allowed to balk. If that offends you, IDGAF.

You're all very brave behind your anonymous posts. Bravo, warrior.

I know you’re getting angry that you can’t bully people anymore into agreeing with you or at least pretending to, but you will just need to deal with that loss of power because voting in this country is also anonymous. Most parents of school children have started to see what goes on in schools in this country, and we want things to change. You can stamp your feet all you want but you can’t bully people into voting the way you want.

Are you on the wrong thread? Nobody is voting children off the island.

I presume that not one of you would stand up in public, say at a PTA meeting, and say out loud that you don't want SN kids in your school. Not behavior issues, SN.

But I could be wrong. Most of you are probably just as awful IRL.

I would stand up and say that I don’t want any kids (SN or otherwise) with serious behavioral issues in my school. I’m not sure what your point is or why you keep trying to make the claim that everyone is coming after all SN kids who have dyslexia or whatever. It’s just not true.

And since it’s apparently a law that is forcing schools to keep disruptive kids in the mainstream schools, then yes, it is a voting issue. It’s not a game of survivor but voting is how we get laws changed in this country.

+1. Seriously, I couldn't care less what, if any, diagnosis a kid has. If they're threatening to kill other children, punching, stabbing with pencils and scissors, and clearing the classrooms, they need to be OUT of mainstream classrooms. It is absurd to expect teachers to work in that environment, and absurd to subject CHILDREN to that type of abuse. It would get a CPS referral if it was happening in the home, but it is impossible to address in schools. That's a failure of the law and takes an emotional toll on children and teachers every day. And teachers can quit when they get too burned out, but what about the children?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yea, this is why I spend a small fortune for my kids to go to a private school wtih classroom sizes no larger than 12 kids of which NONE are special needs or emotionally disturbed. Its all about having them in a peaceful learning environment and not having to be subjecte to kids who really should be in a contained classroom.

Inclusion classrooms are disrubtive.

Exhibit A of the intolerance and bigotry against all SN kids. Not just behavior issues, she said it directly here. Special needs.

To PP, shame on you.

DP.

“Your liberty to swing your fist ends just where my nose begins.”

We don’t have to de okay with SN accommodations having a negative affect on other children. Of that is what happens every day, and we are allowed to balk. If that offends you, IDGAF.

You're all very brave behind your anonymous posts. Bravo, warrior.

I know you’re getting angry that you can’t bully people anymore into agreeing with you or at least pretending to, but you will just need to deal with that loss of power because voting in this country is also anonymous. Most parents of school children have started to see what goes on in schools in this country, and we want things to change. You can stamp your feet all you want but you can’t bully people into voting the way you want.

Are you on the wrong thread? Nobody is voting children off the island.

I presume that not one of you would stand up in public, say at a PTA meeting, and say out loud that you don't want SN kids in your school. Not behavior issues, SN.

But I could be wrong. Most of you are probably just as awful IRL.

I would stand up and say that I don’t want any kids (SN or otherwise) with serious behavioral issues in my school. I’m not sure what your point is or why you keep trying to make the claim that everyone is coming after all SN kids who have dyslexia or whatever. It’s just not true.

And since it’s apparently a law that is forcing schools to keep disruptive kids in the mainstream schools, then yes, it is a voting issue. It’s not a game of survivor but voting is how we get laws changed in this country.

+1. Seriously, I couldn't care less what, if any, diagnosis a kid has. If they're threatening to kill other children, punching, stabbing with pencils and scissors, and clearing the classrooms, they need to be OUT of mainstream classrooms. It is absurd to expect teachers to work in that environment, and absurd to subject CHILDREN to that type of abuse. It would get a CPS referral if it was happening in the home, but it is impossible to address in schools. That's a failure of the law and takes an emotional toll on children and teachers every day. And teachers can quit when they get too burned out, but what about the children?

Yes, not only is the trauma to other children a massive concern, but while the schools look like a circus it’s really hard for teachers to get any respect. There are always people on here complaining that teachers don’t get serious respect, but seriously, schools today are just not serious places. They aren’t for learning (apparently), they’re just daycare. And sometimes not even great daycare since physical safety is a real concern.

[Anonymous]

Are there any statistics on how often this is happening in schools? Like is it once per week, or twice per day in every grade? My daughter is in 5th and I never hear anything like this happening. We're in a mid-size, high-SES/UPC public school. FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
+1 Agree with all of this. I think we need to do two core things: 1) Prioritize universal design in all classrooms supporting the vast array of disabilities/needs,

When a school system did that there was a post on here about how XX schools forced a teacher to take down a poster of MLK.

huh? Universal design is about having tools for special needs incorporated into classroom practices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are there any statistics on how often this is happening in schools? Like is it once per week, or twice per day in every grade? My daughter is in 5th and I never hear anything like this happening. We're in a mid-size, high-SES/UPC public school. FCPS.

I'm a teacher and would love to know this. We are able to submit discipline referrals via our online system but we can't see what happens after that. Administrators do not like to have a high number of referrals so we're actively discouraged from submitting anything unless it's really serious. There's a lot of shaming at some schools and teachers are made to feel inadequate if they continuously refer students, even if it is egregious behavior. I suspect parents would be livid if they realized how often it's happening though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it possible to get an iep requiring a calm environment?

My kid has an accommodation for testing that requires a calm environment. They put him in the hallway for testing with all the other kids who require a calm environment for testing. Guess what's not actually calm? The hallway with all the others.

We've tried to turn this down and my DS asked his teacher to turn this down. They pull him into the hallway regardless.

Cool story