Britney Griner deal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We should not be negotiating for hostages. This just puts a target on the back of all Americans when they travel. Bad actors have been reminded yet again that we have a price.

Should we return Trevor Reed? Or do we have a duty to our citizens regardless of circumstances and what they may have done. Let’s leave the Otto Warmblers to die abroad (we may never know if Trump authorized a $2 million payment). Even Pompeo managed to negotiate the release of 3 Americans from the DPRK in 2019. Does it matter if Bergdahl was a US combatant, or just Whelan?

FWIW I don’t think Whelan was ever in combat.

You are under the misunderstanding that this is some sort of partisan issue. Yes, these are all sad situations and my heart goes out to the folks who have been taken hostage and their families. It’s horrible.

But as a policy matter, it is weak to overturn judicial decisions rendered by our courts because a nutcase has sanctioned grabbing our citizens. It undermines both rule of law as well as the international order.

Private U.S. citizens should pay greater attention to the laws and mores of the countries they visit. If there is a travel warning, it’s there for a reason. There is a bilateral cost to issuing a travel warning, so it only happens if there are compelling reasons.

USG employees know the risks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We should not be negotiating for hostages. This just puts a target on the back of all Americans when they travel. Bad actors have been reminded yet again that we have a price.

Should we return Trevor Reed? Or do we have a duty to our citizens regardless of circumstances and what they may have done. Let’s leave the Otto Warmblers to die abroad (we may never know if Trump authorized a $2 million payment). Even Pompeo managed to negotiate the release of 3 Americans from the DPRK in 2019. Does it matter if Bergdahl was a US combatant, or just Whelan?

FWIW I don’t think Whelan was ever in combat.

You are under the misunderstanding that this is some sort of partisan issue. Yes, these are all sad situations and my heart goes out to the folks who have been taken hostage and their families. It’s horrible.

But as a policy matter, it is weak to overturn judicial decisions rendered by our courts because a nutcase has sanctioned grabbing our citizens. It undermines both rule of law as well as the international order.

Private U.S. citizens should pay greater attention to the laws and mores of the countries they visit. If there is a travel warning, it’s there for a reason. There is a bilateral cost to issuing a travel warning, so it only happens if there are compelling reasons.

USG employees know the risks.

Oh it is a partisan. You maga people talking about rule of law. What a joke you are.

[Anonymous]

Whelan is a disgraced Marine. That the GOP machine is hyping him is an abomination.

Whelan was taken when Trump was President. Not only did he not help get him released, he didn't even acknowledge his arrest.

There was never an offer to release Whelan. Biden had a 'take it or leave it" to get Griner out. What, he should have left her in a Russian Penal Colony?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whelan is a disgraced Marine. That the GOP machine is hyping him is an abomination.

Whelan was taken when Trump was President. Not only did he not help get him released, he didn't even acknowledge his arrest.

There was never an offer to release Whelan. Biden had a 'take it or leave it" to get Griner out. What, he should have left her in a Russian Penal Colony?

It’s being reported today that this is incorrect, but Russia was only willing to trade Whelan for Vadim Krasikov, a Russian spy/assassin convicted and sentenced to life in prison in Germany last year in connection with a 2019 assassination in Berlin. This was an understandable non-starter for Germany. The US reportedly offered multiple other Russian prisoners in its own custody in exchange for Whelan, but Russia refused.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good for Griner for getting out, but there is no need to lionize her as a great American. She has a horrible history and track record, apart from this incident.

She’s a two-time Olympic Gold Medalist for the United States. I’m sure you’ve made equally significant contributions and will share them with us here.

NP
An Olympia. Guilty of domestic abuse and bringing an illegal substance into Russia hardly makes her a role model?

She abandoned her pregnant wife and babies and was involved in domestic abuse. If she were a man people would be less charitable. She’s a talented athlete but not a very good person.

Neither is he. So we should just leave them there, I guess? Is that what you're advocating?

Man are you obtuse. I’m simply pointing out that those who are lionizing her would not likely be as charitable to a man who had conducted himself the same way. Of course she should be home but the amount of adulation and excuses we make for people with athletic talents is disgusting. I think Whalen was probably up to some dodgy stuff. Fogel should have come home before her but teachers aren’t as cool as athletes I guess.

No, I'm not obtuse. I see right through you.

This is not some double standard against the "poor men" would would have been treated differently. Go away with your BS. I've not seen anyone engage in "adulation" for her. Quite the opposite, I've seen very little positive about her even from the people who supported her coming home. If you think this is about "coolness" you are an even bigger fool than your posts demonstrates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whelan is a disgraced Marine. That the GOP machine is hyping him is an abomination.

Whelan was taken when Trump was President. Not only did he not help get him released, he didn't even acknowledge his arrest.

There was never an offer to release Whelan. Biden had a 'take it or leave it" to get Griner out. What, he should have left her in a Russian Penal Colony?

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whelan is a disgraced Marine. That the GOP machine is hyping him is an abomination.

Whelan was taken when Trump was President. Not only did he not help get him released, he didn't even acknowledge his arrest.

There was never an offer to release Whelan. Biden had a 'take it or leave it" to get Griner out. What, he should have left her in a Russian Penal Colony?

It’s being reported today that this is incorrect, but Russia was only willing to trade Whelan for Vadim Krasikov, a Russian spy/assassin convicted and sentenced to life in prison in Germany last year in connection with a 2019 assassination in Berlin. This was an understandable non-starter for Germany. The US reportedly offered multiple other Russian prisoners in its own custody in exchange for Whelan, but Russia refused.

So there was never an offer to release Whelan because we can’t control what Germany does. Putin should grab himself a German if he wants that guy back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whelan is a disgraced Marine. That the GOP machine is hyping him is an abomination.

Whelan was taken when Trump was President. Not only did he not help get him released, he didn't even acknowledge his arrest.

There was never an offer to release Whelan. Biden had a 'take it or leave it" to get Griner out. What, he should have left her in a Russian Penal Colony?

It’s being reported today that this is incorrect, but Russia was only willing to trade Whelan for Vadim Krasikov, a Russian spy/assassin convicted and sentenced to life in prison in Germany last year in connection with a 2019 assassination in Berlin. This was an understandable non-starter for Germany. The US reportedly offered multiple other Russian prisoners in its own custody in exchange for Whelan, but Russia refused.

So there was never an offer to release Whelan because we can’t control what Germany does. Putin should grab himself a German if he wants that guy back.

m
I agree with the spirit of your comment, that there wasn’t a realistic opportunity to eat Whelan back. I was simply providing updated information that, if anything, reinforces what I understand your point to be, and takes it a step further because it’s now known that Biden actively tried to negotiate for Whelan’s release but it was impossible to achieve because Russia didn’t want anything the US had to offer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whelan is a disgraced Marine. That the GOP machine is hyping him is an abomination.

Whelan was taken when Trump was President. Not only did he not help get him released, he didn't even acknowledge his arrest.

There was never an offer to release Whelan. Biden had a 'take it or leave it" to get Griner out. What, he should have left her in a Russian Penal Colony?

It’s being reported today that this is incorrect, but Russia was only willing to trade Whelan for Vadim Krasikov, a Russian spy/assassin convicted and sentenced to life in prison in Germany last year in connection with a 2019 assassination in Berlin. This was an understandable non-starter for Germany. The US reportedly offered multiple other Russian prisoners in its own custody in exchange for Whelan, but Russia refused.

I saw this story today. It indicates, sadly, that Russia was never serious about considering Whelan in this trade. Germany would never agree, and while the US certainly had to do its due diligence and ask, there's no surprise that the answer was a flat no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good for Griner for getting out, but there is no need to lionize her as a great American. She has a horrible history and track record, apart from this incident.

She’s a two-time Olympic Gold Medalist for the United States. I’m sure you’ve made equally significant contributions and will share them with us here.

NP
An Olympia. Guilty of domestic abuse and bringing an illegal substance into Russia hardly makes her a role model?

She abandoned her pregnant wife and babies and was involved in domestic abuse. If she were a man people would be less charitable. She’s a talented athlete but not a very good person.

Neither is he. So we should just leave them there, I guess? Is that what you're advocating?

Man are you obtuse. I’m simply pointing out that those who are lionizing her would not likely be as charitable to a man who had conducted himself the same way. Of course she should be home but the amount of adulation and excuses we make for people with athletic talents is disgusting. I think Whalen was probably up to some dodgy stuff. Fogel should have come home before her but teachers aren’t as cool as athletes I guess.

No, I'm not obtuse. I see right through you.

This is not some double standard against the "poor men" would would have been treated differently. Go away with your BS. I've not seen anyone engage in "adulation" for her. Quite the opposite, I've seen very little positive about her even from the people who supported her coming home. If you think this is about "coolness" you are an even bigger fool than your posts demonstrates.

From the PP who’s comment started this portion of the discussion:

“She’s a two-time Olympic Gold Medalist for the United States. I’m sure you’ve made equally significant contributions and will share them with us here.”

Bill Richardson called her an American icon.

I can go on if you like. There are lots of people all over the country are showering her with adulation. Do you not get out much or what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whelan is a disgraced Marine. That the GOP machine is hyping him is an abomination.

Whelan was taken when Trump was President. Not only did he not help get him released, he didn't even acknowledge his arrest.

There was never an offer to release Whelan. Biden had a 'take it or leave it" to get Griner out. What, he should have left her in a Russian Penal Colony?

It’s being reported today that this is incorrect, but Russia was only willing to trade Whelan for Vadim Krasikov, a Russian spy/assassin convicted and sentenced to life in prison in Germany last year in connection with a 2019 assassination in Berlin. This was an understandable non-starter for Germany. The US reportedly offered multiple other Russian prisoners in its own custody in exchange for Whelan, but Russia refused.

Funny, we had this Russian spy in custody after Whelan was arrested and it never came up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whelan is a disgraced Marine. That the GOP machine is hyping him is an abomination.

Whelan was taken when Trump was President. Not only did he not help get him released, he didn't even acknowledge his arrest.

There was never an offer to release Whelan. Biden had a 'take it or leave it" to get Griner out. What, he should have left her in a Russian Penal Colony?

It’s being reported today that this is incorrect, but Russia was only willing to trade Whelan for Vadim Krasikov, a Russian spy/assassin convicted and sentenced to life in prison in Germany last year in connection with a 2019 assassination in Berlin. This was an understandable non-starter for Germany. The US reportedly offered multiple other Russian prisoners in its own custody in exchange for Whelan, but Russia refused.

Funny, we had this Russian spy in custody after Whelan was arrested and it never came up.

Or what about Trump agreeing to release 5,000 Taliban fighters from prison? https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2021/09/01/trump-taliban-peace-deal-afghanistan-prisoners/5673035001/

I mean, let's cast blame where it's due, Republicans. If you hate letting the bad guys go and want to drone on and on about this deal, then let's make sure to take a good hard look at what the Trump administration did BEFORE the pull out in Afghanistan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whelan is a disgraced Marine. That the GOP machine is hyping him is an abomination.

Whelan was taken when Trump was President. Not only did he not help get him released, he didn't even acknowledge his arrest.

There was never an offer to release Whelan. Biden had a 'take it or leave it" to get Griner out. What, he should have left her in a Russian Penal Colony?

It’s being reported today that this is incorrect, but Russia was only willing to trade Whelan for Vadim Krasikov, a Russian spy/assassin convicted and sentenced to life in prison in Germany last year in connection with a 2019 assassination in Berlin. This was an understandable non-starter for Germany. The US reportedly offered multiple other Russian prisoners in its own custody in exchange for Whelan, but Russia refused.

Funny, we had this Russian spy in custody after Whelan was arrested and it never came up.

Perhaps she could have been part of a deal, but there is a huge difference in the severity of the allegations between Butina and Whelan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whelan is a disgraced Marine. That the GOP machine is hyping him is an abomination.

Whelan was taken when Trump was President. Not only did he not help get him released, he didn't even acknowledge his arrest.

There was never an offer to release Whelan. Biden had a 'take it or leave it" to get Griner out. What, he should have left her in a Russian Penal Colony?

+1

[Anonymous]

Let’s just accept the reality that anything Biden accomplishes will be viewed in a negative light by a cabal of Americans who worship Trump and find more in common with Putin than their fellow Americans. They aren’t interested in honest debate. It’s shrill partisan noisemaking because securing the release of a black, lesbian isn’t something they choose to value while proclaiming their “Christian” values as supposed “patriots” who celebrate the insurrectionists attacking law enforcement with flagpoles on Jan 6. Deplorables 4 ever.