Wilson / Jackson-Reed Teacher saying slurs

[Anonymous]

In what world is it correct to keep a repeat offender like this student in the class and prevent everyone else from learning all year??

This is messed up. The system is dysfunctional.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I saw the video. Black student angrily calls a White teacher the N-word. Teacher replies, "I'm not a n---." Student then tells the teacher, who happens to be gay, "Your life don't matter. You're a f-- [homophobic slur]." Teacher lost composure but it's not like the teacher called anyone the term. The student called him the term and he just repeated it to reject it. Lots of smoke but hardly any fire.

The student should be expelled. The teacher should get free counseling for having to deal with this abuse at work.

Sure. I’m sure if the student was white you’d have more empathy. No this student shouldn’t be expelled. They should have to write a minimum 6 page essay on why homophobia is wrong and the history of it. Plus counseling from the school.
Notice how I didn’t add suspension or expulsion, that crap doesn’t work. As a teacher myself, I have gotten a student suspended who said he’d rape me but ha. He was happy to miss school and came back worse. Luckily his parents were actually upset and started getting him counseling and they finally listened when I told them he may be bipolar.

This is a student, not a teacher. Expulsion is for extreme circumstances like real physical hard. Words hurt but I’m sure that teacher has heard worse. Some of these kids have zero boundaries.

Your argument is about as cogent as the current arguments against gun laws because "outlaws don't follow laws". We should then eliminate all laws I guess? Setting aside that I don't agree that suspensions don't work, the question I have for everyone who parrots that line is, don't work for whom? Even if suspensions and expulsions don't work for the perpetrator they surely work (i) to dissuade kids who otherwise might engage in behaviors but for actual consequences and (ii) to allow the other kids to have an environment appropriate for learning.

I think where you and I differ is in where our focus ought to be. I'm more worried about the other kids in the class than an unrepentant asshole who has engaged in the same disruptive behaviors for extended periods of time. I also call bullshit on this idea that the fact that minority kids are suspended and expelled at higher rates means we can't suspend or expel anyone. Those aren't binary choices, we only pretend they are because (i) it is hard to fix and (ii) the idea of "equity" and accusations of racism have made reform efforts untenable. I'd also call bullshit on the idea that only white parents want their kids in a stable educational environment. There's this idea that keeps surfacing that black parents want violent or disruptive black kids to remain in class because it is "antiracist". Black parents and kids have to live in America; by and large they don't have time for this kind of virtue signaling and they don't feel empowered when an asshole, disruptive, violent black student remains.

Sigh, way to take it to an extreme. It doesn’t work for anyone, so stop your implied ‘it just doesn’t work for POC kids.’
The US incarcerates at an extremely high rate and yet we have some of the most rampant crime in the world. You want punishments that make YOU feel better, they will not change the behavior. Sure, it could work for some children as a fear tactic but it will not change their mindset, their character.

These are children, wtf is the point of doling out a punishment to just be like, ‘you did a bad thing, here’s your punishment.’ Suspension and expulsion offer no reflection, no mindset change, no understanding.

Expulsion is the worse because all it does is help create criminals, if they are not in school to learn that their actions are wrong then what do you think they’ll be doing as an alternative? Do you actually understand the school to prison pipeline?

It is not just about the students who can follow the rules, it is about students with difficult home lives, trauma, ELL, sped, homeless, etc. students too. If you don’t want to deal then send your child to a private school.

The problem is DCPS does not actually make these students reflect in any meaningful way, they just allow them to continue to disrupt the class, which I am not for. This student obviously cannot regulate their emotions, how will suspension teach him that?

But you want to sit here and be as lazy as possible because that is what that is. Lazy, negligent, and using bad practices because YOU think it’s a black issue. Perhaps you did not mean it as such but I never said Black families do not care, you implied that’s what my stance is about.

No, white children from ‘good families’ can have awful kids, White kids are the ones mostly shooting up schools.

this is fresh bullsh*t and I say that as the mother of a child with an IEP and sometimes severely disruptive behavior. A child like this one needs to be assessed for disabilities and given clear consequences, including suspension and transfer to an alternative setting. If the school doesn’t have the ability or resources to implement a successful FBA then the child needs to go to a more restrictive environment. One child cannot disrupt learning for the rest. And miss me with the complaints of racism. Why do you think black parents enroll their kids in KIPP?

Oh wow! You have a child with an IEP so you’re the expert? LMAO.
Is your child at KIPP? Or an ‘alternative setting.’ Don’t answer, even if they are you’re not an expert.

Do you not get why I mentioned connecting to a BES teacher?

Gah. This is why parents who are not teachers need not chime in. This school does have the resources, I legit listed them.

Also you have no clue if this child has a disability, stop. You can get a BIP without an IEP.

I am likely more of an expert in IEPs, FBAs, and BIPs than you are.

The point is - discipline and removal of a highly disruptive child is necessary for that child and for the school as whole. If my child acted like this one, and the behavior showed no sign of abating despite implementing the IEP, he would have to be removed from general ed. I have faced that down and hate it, but it’s the right thing. and if he called his gay teacher a fag … I would want him to be suspended.

What are your credentials?

I am a special education teacher with a bachelor’s in psychology/a teacher credentialing program
Master’s in special education/ABA certification
And in my final year for PhD in behavioral psyc.
I am also a BCBA
Last, I’m an avid learner of conscious discipline and emotional regulation practices.

So no, no I do not think you are more of an expert. And at no point did I ever say, the child should just stay in the classroom. I said no to out of school suspension and expulsion, unless it was harmful physical violence.

You may need to remove the student, that is a given. No one asked what you’d ‘want’ for your personal child, it is about what this student needs and what supports have actually been given to him and the teacher. If you have a child with a disability you should also know you cannot force a child into sped, self contained, or an alt placement without parent permission.

Also why are you jumping? We have no idea if this student has an IEP or a BIP! If he does it’s a piss poor one.

Anyway I need to stop replying, it’s not like I can personally help this student or this teacher by talking to parents on here. I jumped in to offer another perspective as someone who works with students who choke others, break glass windows, spit on you, purposely try and throw up because they know you may have to clean it, if you are at a school with slow on nonexistent custodians, etc.

Teachers deal with some vile sh*t sometimes but at the end of the day these are kids who need serious help. I will concede that sometimes they do need another placement, just don’t know this kid and neither do you.

Have you not read this thread??? There is no supports for the teachers at JR. They are on their own. Bu yea, let’s support the kid and do everything we can for him.

Screw the teacher and the other 30 kids.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The teacher must have been very stressed out and couldn't think properly how to handle this. Hindsight is everything and it is clear that he was being baited into a trap by the student.

Teachers are required to take abuse from students, and that's why this job is so terrible. I feel very bad for the teacher, and it is pointless to say after the fact, but he should have walked away from this behavior. Call the admins to come in and deal with the situation. But he should not have engaged because this is exactly the reaction that the student wanted to get from him. It is not fair to teachers - but I have witnessed violence against teachers by students and the teachers never fight back because they know they would be the ones to pay a heavy price. Think of all those teachers who have stories to tell about how they were kicked, hit and bitten by students. They have to take the abuse and call admin for help. They're not allowed to "fight back." That's why they're running away from the profession. The stress and constant disrespect is not worth it.

That’s if the admin actually shows up when called. It’s really sad and there is no consequences or accountability for kids. DC’s ‘flagship’ middle school Deal is bleeding teachers every year.

This exactly. I teach at JR and had a student curse me out in class. I immediately called admin. No one showed up.
Teachers are on their own.

Then it is not a school you want to teach at.

While teaching is a terrible career, there are schools where students do not act this way. Teachers are in demand everywhere, you don't have to stay at a place where you're not supported against students abusing you.

Many all-Black schools would come down on that behavior like a ton of bricks. No way in hell would that be tolerated.

That's not true at all. Not in DCPS.

It’s true at the successful ones. See: KIPP, Banneker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I saw the video. Black student angrily calls a White teacher the N-word. Teacher replies, "I'm not a n---." Student then tells the teacher, who happens to be gay, "Your life don't matter. You're a f-- [homophobic slur]." Teacher lost composure but it's not like the teacher called anyone the term. The student called him the term and he just repeated it to reject it. Lots of smoke but hardly any fire.

How and why is this being put on video?

Whichever student or students videoed this exchange should be held accountable.

The students who SAID it should be held accountable.

Absolutely! More power to whomever videoed it. Instagram may have been too public as a distribution choice, but it likely would have gotten little traction without the receipts.

Do receipts legitimize how awful the student is? Try to finish high school and get a career, hun.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The teacher must have been very stressed out and couldn't think properly how to handle this. Hindsight is everything and it is clear that he was being baited into a trap by the student.

Teachers are required to take abuse from students, and that's why this job is so terrible. I feel very bad for the teacher, and it is pointless to say after the fact, but he should have walked away from this behavior. Call the admins to come in and deal with the situation. But he should not have engaged because this is exactly the reaction that the student wanted to get from him. It is not fair to teachers - but I have witnessed violence against teachers by students and the teachers never fight back because they know they would be the ones to pay a heavy price. Think of all those teachers who have stories to tell about how they were kicked, hit and bitten by students. They have to take the abuse and call admin for help. They're not allowed to "fight back." That's why they're running away from the profession. The stress and constant disrespect is not worth it.

That’s if the admin actually shows up when called. It’s really sad and there is no consequences or accountability for kids. DC’s ‘flagship’ middle school Deal is bleeding teachers every year.

This exactly. I teach at JR and had a student curse me out in class. I immediately called admin. No one showed up.
Teachers are on their own.

Then it is not a school you want to teach at.

While teaching is a terrible career, there are schools where students do not act this way. Teachers are in demand everywhere, you don't have to stay at a place where you're not supported against students abusing you.

Many all-Black schools would come down on that behavior like a ton of bricks. No way in hell would that be tolerated.

That's not true at all. Not in DCPS.

It’s true at the successful ones. See: KIPP, Banneker.

Banneker counsels out students that don’t toe the line. Can’t comment in KIPP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The teacher must have been very stressed out and couldn't think properly how to handle this. Hindsight is everything and it is clear that he was being baited into a trap by the student.

Teachers are required to take abuse from students, and that's why this job is so terrible. I feel very bad for the teacher, and it is pointless to say after the fact, but he should have walked away from this behavior. Call the admins to come in and deal with the situation. But he should not have engaged because this is exactly the reaction that the student wanted to get from him. It is not fair to teachers - but I have witnessed violence against teachers by students and the teachers never fight back because they know they would be the ones to pay a heavy price. Think of all those teachers who have stories to tell about how they were kicked, hit and bitten by students. They have to take the abuse and call admin for help. They're not allowed to "fight back." That's why they're running away from the profession. The stress and constant disrespect is not worth it.

That’s if the admin actually shows up when called. It’s really sad and there is no consequences or accountability for kids. DC’s ‘flagship’ middle school Deal is bleeding teachers every year.

This exactly. I teach at JR and had a student curse me out in class. I immediately called admin. No one showed up.
Teachers are on their own.

Then it is not a school you want to teach at.

While teaching is a terrible career, there are schools where students do not act this way. Teachers are in demand everywhere, you don't have to stay at a place where you're not supported against students abusing you.

Many all-Black schools would come down on that behavior like a ton of bricks. No way in hell would that be tolerated.

That's not true at all. Not in DCPS.

It’s true at the successful ones. See: KIPP, Banneker.

Banneker counsels out students that don’t toe the line. Can’t comment in KIPP

KIPP is not DCPS, which is what the initial assertion was about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The teacher must have been very stressed out and couldn't think properly how to handle this. Hindsight is everything and it is clear that he was being baited into a trap by the student.

Teachers are required to take abuse from students, and that's why this job is so terrible. I feel very bad for the teacher, and it is pointless to say after the fact, but he should have walked away from this behavior. Call the admins to come in and deal with the situation. But he should not have engaged because this is exactly the reaction that the student wanted to get from him. It is not fair to teachers - but I have witnessed violence against teachers by students and the teachers never fight back because they know they would be the ones to pay a heavy price. Think of all those teachers who have stories to tell about how they were kicked, hit and bitten by students. They have to take the abuse and call admin for help. They're not allowed to "fight back." That's why they're running away from the profession. The stress and constant disrespect is not worth it.

That’s if the admin actually shows up when called. It’s really sad and there is no consequences or accountability for kids. DC’s ‘flagship’ middle school Deal is bleeding teachers every year.

This exactly. I teach at JR and had a student curse me out in class. I immediately called admin. No one showed up.
Teachers are on their own.

Then it is not a school you want to teach at.

While teaching is a terrible career, there are schools where students do not act this way. Teachers are in demand everywhere, you don't have to stay at a place where you're not supported against students abusing you.

Many all-Black schools would come down on that behavior like a ton of bricks. No way in hell would that be tolerated.

That's not true at all. Not in DCPS.

It’s true at the successful ones. See: KIPP, Banneker.

Banneker counsels out students that don’t toe the line. Can’t comment in KIPP

Who then come to us…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The teacher must have been very stressed out and couldn't think properly how to handle this. Hindsight is everything and it is clear that he was being baited into a trap by the student.

Teachers are required to take abuse from students, and that's why this job is so terrible. I feel very bad for the teacher, and it is pointless to say after the fact, but he should have walked away from this behavior. Call the admins to come in and deal with the situation. But he should not have engaged because this is exactly the reaction that the student wanted to get from him. It is not fair to teachers - but I have witnessed violence against teachers by students and the teachers never fight back because they know they would be the ones to pay a heavy price. Think of all those teachers who have stories to tell about how they were kicked, hit and bitten by students. They have to take the abuse and call admin for help. They're not allowed to "fight back." That's why they're running away from the profession. The stress and constant disrespect is not worth it.

That’s if the admin actually shows up when called. It’s really sad and there is no consequences or accountability for kids. DC’s ‘flagship’ middle school Deal is bleeding teachers every year.

This exactly. I teach at JR and had a student curse me out in class. I immediately called admin. No one showed up.
Teachers are on their own.

Then it is not a school you want to teach at.

While teaching is a terrible career, there are schools where students do not act this way. Teachers are in demand everywhere, you don't have to stay at a place where you're not supported against students abusing you.

Many all-Black schools would come down on that behavior like a ton of bricks. No way in hell would that be tolerated.

That's not true at all. Not in DCPS.

It’s true at the successful ones. See: KIPP, Banneker.

Banneker counsels out students that don’t toe the line. Can’t comment in KIPP

KIPP is not DCPS, which is what the initial assertion was about.

No. The original assertion was: “Many all-Black schools would come down on that behavior like a ton of bricks.”

And it stands. Schools like KIPP and Banneker don’t tolerate this kind of behavior. There is no way that a student would be permitted to repeatedly disrupt everyone else’s learning like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The teacher must have been very stressed out and couldn't think properly how to handle this. Hindsight is everything and it is clear that he was being baited into a trap by the student.

Teachers are required to take abuse from students, and that's why this job is so terrible. I feel very bad for the teacher, and it is pointless to say after the fact, but he should have walked away from this behavior. Call the admins to come in and deal with the situation. But he should not have engaged because this is exactly the reaction that the student wanted to get from him. It is not fair to teachers - but I have witnessed violence against teachers by students and the teachers never fight back because they know they would be the ones to pay a heavy price. Think of all those teachers who have stories to tell about how they were kicked, hit and bitten by students. They have to take the abuse and call admin for help. They're not allowed to "fight back." That's why they're running away from the profession. The stress and constant disrespect is not worth it.

That’s if the admin actually shows up when called. It’s really sad and there is no consequences or accountability for kids. DC’s ‘flagship’ middle school Deal is bleeding teachers every year.

This exactly. I teach at JR and had a student curse me out in class. I immediately called admin. No one showed up.
Teachers are on their own.

Then it is not a school you want to teach at.

While teaching is a terrible career, there are schools where students do not act this way. Teachers are in demand everywhere, you don't have to stay at a place where you're not supported against students abusing you.

Many all-Black schools would come down on that behavior like a ton of bricks. No way in hell would that be tolerated.

That's not true at all. Not in DCPS.

It’s true at the successful ones. See: KIPP, Banneker.

Banneker counsels out students that don’t toe the line. Can’t comment in KIPP

KIPP is not DCPS, which is what the initial assertion was about.

No. The original assertion was: “Many all-Black schools would come down on that behavior like a ton of bricks.”

And it stands. Schools like KIPP and Banneker don’t tolerate this kind of behavior. There is no way that a student would be permitted to repeatedly disrupt everyone else’s learning like this.

What do they do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw the video. Black student angrily calls a White teacher the N-word. Teacher replies, "I'm not a n---." Student then tells the teacher, who happens to be gay, "Your life don't matter. You're a f-- [homophobic slur]." Teacher lost composure but it's not like the teacher called anyone the term. The student called him the term and he just repeated it to reject it. Lots of smoke but hardly any fire.

The student should be expelled. The teacher should get free counseling for having to deal with this abuse at work.

Sure. I’m sure if the student was white you’d have more empathy. No this student shouldn’t be expelled. They should have to write a minimum 6 page essay on why homophobia is wrong and the history of it. Plus counseling from the school.
Notice how I didn’t add suspension or expulsion, that crap doesn’t work. As a teacher myself, I have gotten a student suspended who said he’d rape me but ha. He was happy to miss school and came back worse. Luckily his parents were actually upset and started getting him counseling and they finally listened when I told them he may be bipolar.

This is a student, not a teacher. Expulsion is for extreme circumstances like real physical hard. Words hurt but I’m sure that teacher has heard worse. Some of these kids have zero boundaries.

Your argument is about as cogent as the current arguments against gun laws because "outlaws don't follow laws". We should then eliminate all laws I guess? Setting aside that I don't agree that suspensions don't work, the question I have for everyone who parrots that line is, don't work for whom? Even if suspensions and expulsions don't work for the perpetrator they surely work (i) to dissuade kids who otherwise might engage in behaviors but for actual consequences and (ii) to allow the other kids to have an environment appropriate for learning.

I think where you and I differ is in where our focus ought to be. I'm more worried about the other kids in the class than an unrepentant asshole who has engaged in the same disruptive behaviors for extended periods of time. I also call bullshit on this idea that the fact that minority kids are suspended and expelled at higher rates means we can't suspend or expel anyone. Those aren't binary choices, we only pretend they are because (i) it is hard to fix and (ii) the idea of "equity" and accusations of racism have made reform efforts untenable. I'd also call bullshit on the idea that only white parents want their kids in a stable educational environment. There's this idea that keeps surfacing that black parents want violent or disruptive black kids to remain in class because it is "antiracist". Black parents and kids have to live in America; by and large they don't have time for this kind of virtue signaling and they don't feel empowered when an asshole, disruptive, violent black student remains.

Sigh, way to take it to an extreme. It doesn’t work for anyone, so stop your implied ‘it just doesn’t work for POC kids.’
The US incarcerates at an extremely high rate and yet we have some of the most rampant crime in the world. You want punishments that make YOU feel better, they will not change the behavior. Sure, it could work for some children as a fear tactic but it will not change their mindset, their character.

These are children, wtf is the point of doling out a punishment to just be like, ‘you did a bad thing, here’s your punishment.’ Suspension and expulsion offer no reflection, no mindset change, no understanding.

Expulsion is the worse because all it does is help create criminals, if they are not in school to learn that their actions are wrong then what do you think they’ll be doing as an alternative? Do you actually understand the school to prison pipeline?

It is not just about the students who can follow the rules, it is about students with difficult home lives, trauma, ELL, sped, homeless, etc. students too. If you don’t want to deal then send your child to a private school.

The problem is DCPS does not actually make these students reflect in any meaningful way, they just allow them to continue to disrupt the class, which I am not for. This student obviously cannot regulate their emotions, how will suspension teach him that?

But you want to sit here and be as lazy as possible because that is what that is. Lazy, negligent, and using bad practices because YOU think it’s a black issue. Perhaps you did not mean it as such but I never said Black families do not care, you implied that’s what my stance is about.

No, white children from ‘good families’ can have awful kids, White kids are the ones mostly shooting up schools.

this is fresh bullsh*t and I say that as the mother of a child with an IEP and sometimes severely disruptive behavior. A child like this one needs to be assessed for disabilities and given clear consequences, including suspension and transfer to an alternative setting. If the school doesn’t have the ability or resources to implement a successful FBA then the child needs to go to a more restrictive environment. One child cannot disrupt learning for the rest. And miss me with the complaints of racism. Why do you think black parents enroll their kids in KIPP?

Oh wow! You have a child with an IEP so you’re the expert? LMAO.
Is your child at KIPP? Or an ‘alternative setting.’ Don’t answer, even if they are you’re not an expert.

Do you not get why I mentioned connecting to a BES teacher?

Gah. This is why parents who are not teachers need not chime in. This school does have the resources, I legit listed them.

Also you have no clue if this child has a disability, stop. You can get a BIP without an IEP.

I am likely more of an expert in IEPs, FBAs, and BIPs than you are.

The point is - discipline and removal of a highly disruptive child is necessary for that child and for the school as whole. If my child acted like this one, and the behavior showed no sign of abating despite implementing the IEP, he would have to be removed from general ed. I have faced that down and hate it, but it’s the right thing. and if he called his gay teacher a fag … I would want him to be suspended.

What are your credentials?

I am a special education teacher with a bachelor’s in psychology/a teacher credentialing program
Master’s in special education/ABA certification
And in my final year for PhD in behavioral psyc.
I am also a BCBA
Last, I’m an avid learner of conscious discipline and emotional regulation practices.

So no, no I do not think you are more of an expert. And at no point did I ever say, the child should just stay in the classroom. I said no to out of school suspension and expulsion, unless it was harmful physical violence.

You may need to remove the student, that is a given. No one asked what you’d ‘want’ for your personal child, it is about what this student needs and what supports have actually been given to him and the teacher. If you have a child with a disability you should also know you cannot force a child into sped, self contained, or an alt placement without parent permission.

Also why are you jumping? We have no idea if this student has an IEP or a BIP! If he does it’s a piss poor one.

Anyway I need to stop replying, it’s not like I can personally help this student or this teacher by talking to parents on here. I jumped in to offer another perspective as someone who works with students who choke others, break glass windows, spit on you, purposely try and throw up because they know you may have to clean it, if you are at a school with slow on nonexistent custodians, etc.

Teachers deal with some vile sh*t sometimes but at the end of the day these are kids who need serious help. I will concede that sometimes they do need another placement, just don’t know this kid and neither do you.

Have you not read this thread??? There is no supports for the teachers at JR. They are on their own. Bu yea, let’s support the kid and do everything we can for him.

Screw the teacher and the other 30 kids.

This student's disruptive antisocial behavior is likely harming students in his other classes as well. In total, the number of students harmed on a daily/weekly basis is likely well over a hundred.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is not just about an interaction between one adult and one child. The adult lost his cool and is sorry. …

This post from 06/04/2022 21:00 is the most accurate and comprehensive post I’ve read. I teach at JR and I largely agree with everything this poster wrote. This person is very knowledgeable. I would just add two additional points:

1) A lot of students and teachers at JR think there is a big divide between juniors/seniors and freshmen/sophomores, with virtual learning and social media negatively impacting the younger students in a uniquely bad way. I don’t think the sort of behavior from the video would happen in an upperclassmen class. Now whether this poor behavior more prevalent among the younger students will persist is anyone’s guess.

2) I love my students. There are definitely disruptive students but there are also many more wonderful, deeply-humane students. Overall, I feel very fortunate to be a part of this school community. That said, I feel this way AND still endorse what that previous poster wrote.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The teacher must have been very stressed out and couldn't think properly how to handle this. Hindsight is everything and it is clear that he was being baited into a trap by the student.

Teachers are required to take abuse from students, and that's why this job is so terrible. I feel very bad for the teacher, and it is pointless to say after the fact, but he should have walked away from this behavior. Call the admins to come in and deal with the situation. But he should not have engaged because this is exactly the reaction that the student wanted to get from him. It is not fair to teachers - but I have witnessed violence against teachers by students and the teachers never fight back because they know they would be the ones to pay a heavy price. Think of all those teachers who have stories to tell about how they were kicked, hit and bitten by students. They have to take the abuse and call admin for help. They're not allowed to "fight back." That's why they're running away from the profession. The stress and constant disrespect is not worth it.

That’s if the admin actually shows up when called. It’s really sad and there is no consequences or accountability for kids. DC’s ‘flagship’ middle school Deal is bleeding teachers every year.

This exactly. I teach at JR and had a student curse me out in class. I immediately called admin. No one showed up.
Teachers are on their own.

Then it is not a school you want to teach at.

While teaching is a terrible career, there are schools where students do not act this way. Teachers are in demand everywhere, you don't have to stay at a place where you're not supported against students abusing you.

Many all-Black schools would come down on that behavior like a ton of bricks. No way in hell would that be tolerated.

That's not true at all. Not in DCPS.

It’s true at the successful ones. See: KIPP, Banneker.

Banneker counsels out students that don’t toe the line. Can’t comment in KIPP

KIPP is not DCPS, which is what the initial assertion was about.

No. The original assertion was: “Many all-Black schools would come down on that behavior like a ton of bricks.”

And it stands. Schools like KIPP and Banneker don’t tolerate this kind of behavior. There is no way that a student would be permitted to repeatedly disrupt everyone else’s learning like this.

What do they do?

Banneker kicks out disruptive and low performing students. This means they have a much easier and more compliant cohort of students to manage. JR is not allowed to do that.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The teacher must have been very stressed out and couldn't think properly how to handle this. Hindsight is everything and it is clear that he was being baited into a trap by the student.

Teachers are required to take abuse from students, and that's why this job is so terrible. I feel very bad for the teacher, and it is pointless to say after the fact, but he should have walked away from this behavior. Call the admins to come in and deal with the situation. But he should not have engaged because this is exactly the reaction that the student wanted to get from him. It is not fair to teachers - but I have witnessed violence against teachers by students and the teachers never fight back because they know they would be the ones to pay a heavy price. Think of all those teachers who have stories to tell about how they were kicked, hit and bitten by students. They have to take the abuse and call admin for help. They're not allowed to "fight back." That's why they're running away from the profession. The stress and constant disrespect is not worth it.

That’s if the admin actually shows up when called. It’s really sad and there is no consequences or accountability for kids. DC’s ‘flagship’ middle school Deal is bleeding teachers every year.

This exactly. I teach at JR and had a student curse me out in class. I immediately called admin. No one showed up.
Teachers are on their own.

Then it is not a school you want to teach at.

While teaching is a terrible career, there are schools where students do not act this way. Teachers are in demand everywhere, you don't have to stay at a place where you're not supported against students abusing you.

Many all-Black schools would come down on that behavior like a ton of bricks. No way in hell would that be tolerated.

That's not true at all. Not in DCPS.

It’s true at the successful ones. See: KIPP, Banneker.

Banneker counsels out students that don’t toe the line. Can’t comment in KIPP

KIPP is not DCPS, which is what the initial assertion was about.

No. The original assertion was: “Many all-Black schools would come down on that behavior like a ton of bricks.”

And it stands. Schools like KIPP and Banneker don’t tolerate this kind of behavior. There is no way that a student would be permitted to repeatedly disrupt everyone else’s learning like this.

What do they do?

Banneker kicks out disruptive and low performing students. This means they have a much easier and more compliant cohort of students to manage. JR is not allowed to do that.

This. They also have no support for these kids or IEP kids. They basically have no IEP kids so there you go,

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The teacher must have been very stressed out and couldn't think properly how to handle this. Hindsight is everything and it is clear that he was being baited into a trap by the student.

Teachers are required to take abuse from students, and that's why this job is so terrible. I feel very bad for the teacher, and it is pointless to say after the fact, but he should have walked away from this behavior. Call the admins to come in and deal with the situation. But he should not have engaged because this is exactly the reaction that the student wanted to get from him. It is not fair to teachers - but I have witnessed violence against teachers by students and the teachers never fight back because they know they would be the ones to pay a heavy price. Think of all those teachers who have stories to tell about how they were kicked, hit and bitten by students. They have to take the abuse and call admin for help. They're not allowed to "fight back." That's why they're running away from the profession. The stress and constant disrespect is not worth it.

That’s if the admin actually shows up when called. It’s really sad and there is no consequences or accountability for kids. DC’s ‘flagship’ middle school Deal is bleeding teachers every year.

This exactly. I teach at JR and had a student curse me out in class. I immediately called admin. No one showed up.
Teachers are on their own.

Then it is not a school you want to teach at.

While teaching is a terrible career, there are schools where students do not act this way. Teachers are in demand everywhere, you don't have to stay at a place where you're not supported against students abusing you.

Many all-Black schools would come down on that behavior like a ton of bricks. No way in hell would that be tolerated.

That's not true at all. Not in DCPS.

It’s true at the successful ones. See: KIPP, Banneker.

Banneker counsels out students that don’t toe the line. Can’t comment in KIPP

KIPP is not DCPS, which is what the initial assertion was about.

No. The original assertion was: “Many all-Black schools would come down on that behavior like a ton of bricks.”

And it stands. Schools like KIPP and Banneker don’t tolerate this kind of behavior. There is no way that a student would be permitted to repeatedly disrupt everyone else’s learning like this.

What do they do?

Banneker kicks out disruptive and low performing students. This means they have a much easier and more compliant cohort of students to manage. JR is not allowed to do that.

No, JR has not bothered to figure out a way to do that within the bounds of federal special education law. If I had six months, I could set up a process to get kids like this one sent to a private placement or an alternative school in an expedient manner, as well as allowing for legal suspensions.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I saw the video. Black student angrily calls a White teacher the N-word. Teacher replies, "I'm not a n---." Student then tells the teacher, who happens to be gay, "Your life don't matter. You're a f-- [homophobic slur]." Teacher lost composure but it's not like the teacher called anyone the term. The student called him the term and he just repeated it to reject it. Lots of smoke but hardly any fire.

The student should be expelled. The teacher should get free counseling for having to deal with this abuse at work.

Sure. I’m sure if the student was white you’d have more empathy. No this student shouldn’t be expelled. They should have to write a minimum 6 page essay on why homophobia is wrong and the history of it. Plus counseling from the school.
Notice how I didn’t add suspension or expulsion, that crap doesn’t work. As a teacher myself, I have gotten a student suspended who said he’d rape me but ha. He was happy to miss school and came back worse. Luckily his parents were actually upset and started getting him counseling and they finally listened when I told them he may be bipolar.

This is a student, not a teacher. Expulsion is for extreme circumstances like real physical hard. Words hurt but I’m sure that teacher has heard worse. Some of these kids have zero boundaries.

Your argument is about as cogent as the current arguments against gun laws because "outlaws don't follow laws". We should then eliminate all laws I guess? Setting aside that I don't agree that suspensions don't work, the question I have for everyone who parrots that line is, don't work for whom? Even if suspensions and expulsions don't work for the perpetrator they surely work (i) to dissuade kids who otherwise might engage in behaviors but for actual consequences and (ii) to allow the other kids to have an environment appropriate for learning.

I think where you and I differ is in where our focus ought to be. I'm more worried about the other kids in the class than an unrepentant asshole who has engaged in the same disruptive behaviors for extended periods of time. I also call bullshit on this idea that the fact that minority kids are suspended and expelled at higher rates means we can't suspend or expel anyone. Those aren't binary choices, we only pretend they are because (i) it is hard to fix and (ii) the idea of "equity" and accusations of racism have made reform efforts untenable. I'd also call bullshit on the idea that only white parents want their kids in a stable educational environment. There's this idea that keeps surfacing that black parents want violent or disruptive black kids to remain in class because it is "antiracist". Black parents and kids have to live in America; by and large they don't have time for this kind of virtue signaling and they don't feel empowered when an asshole, disruptive, violent black student remains.

Sigh, way to take it to an extreme. It doesn’t work for anyone, so stop your implied ‘it just doesn’t work for POC kids.’
The US incarcerates at an extremely high rate and yet we have some of the most rampant crime in the world. You want punishments that make YOU feel better, they will not change the behavior. Sure, it could work for some children as a fear tactic but it will not change their mindset, their character.

These are children, wtf is the point of doling out a punishment to just be like, ‘you did a bad thing, here’s your punishment.’ Suspension and expulsion offer no reflection, no mindset change, no understanding.

Expulsion is the worse because all it does is help create criminals, if they are not in school to learn that their actions are wrong then what do you think they’ll be doing as an alternative? Do you actually understand the school to prison pipeline?

It is not just about the students who can follow the rules, it is about students with difficult home lives, trauma, ELL, sped, homeless, etc. students too. If you don’t want to deal then send your child to a private school.

The problem is DCPS does not actually make these students reflect in any meaningful way, they just allow them to continue to disrupt the class, which I am not for. This student obviously cannot regulate their emotions, how will suspension teach him that?

But you want to sit here and be as lazy as possible because that is what that is. Lazy, negligent, and using bad practices because YOU think it’s a black issue. Perhaps you did not mean it as such but I never said Black families do not care, you implied that’s what my stance is about.

No, white children from ‘good families’ can have awful kids, White kids are the ones mostly shooting up schools.

this is fresh bullsh*t and I say that as the mother of a child with an IEP and sometimes severely disruptive behavior. A child like this one needs to be assessed for disabilities and given clear consequences, including suspension and transfer to an alternative setting. If the school doesn’t have the ability or resources to implement a successful FBA then the child needs to go to a more restrictive environment. One child cannot disrupt learning for the rest. And miss me with the complaints of racism. Why do you think black parents enroll their kids in KIPP?

Oh wow! You have a child with an IEP so you’re the expert? LMAO.
Is your child at KIPP? Or an ‘alternative setting.’ Don’t answer, even if they are you’re not an expert.

Do you not get why I mentioned connecting to a BES teacher?

Gah. This is why parents who are not teachers need not chime in. This school does have the resources, I legit listed them.

Also you have no clue if this child has a disability, stop. You can get a BIP without an IEP.

I am likely more of an expert in IEPs, FBAs, and BIPs than you are.

The point is - discipline and removal of a highly disruptive child is necessary for that child and for the school as whole. If my child acted like this one, and the behavior showed no sign of abating despite implementing the IEP, he would have to be removed from general ed. I have faced that down and hate it, but it’s the right thing. and if he called his gay teacher a fag … I would want him to be suspended.

What are your credentials?

I am a special education teacher with a bachelor’s in psychology/a teacher credentialing program
Master’s in special education/ABA certification
And in my final year for PhD in behavioral psyc.
I am also a BCBA
Last, I’m an avid learner of conscious discipline and emotional regulation practices.

So no, no I do not think you are more of an expert. And at no point did I ever say, the child should just stay in the classroom. I said no to out of school suspension and expulsion, unless it was harmful physical violence.

You may need to remove the student, that is a given. No one asked what you’d ‘want’ for your personal child, it is about what this student needs and what supports have actually been given to him and the teacher. If you have a child with a disability you should also know you cannot force a child into sped, self contained, or an alt placement without parent permission.

Also why are you jumping? We have no idea if this student has an IEP or a BIP! If he does it’s a piss poor one.

Anyway I need to stop replying, it’s not like I can personally help this student or this teacher by talking to parents on here. I jumped in to offer another perspective as someone who works with students who choke others, break glass windows, spit on you, purposely try and throw up because they know you may have to clean it, if you are at a school with slow on nonexistent custodians, etc.

Teachers deal with some vile sh*t sometimes but at the end of the day these are kids who need serious help. I will concede that sometimes they do need another placement, just don’t know this kid and neither do you.

Here is the bottom line. This student has ongoing and repeated abuse and behavior issues. He is not being removed from the class. He is disrupting the class, demeaning the teacher, and preventing learning happening in the classroom for all the other students.

You live in an ideal world with your lines of what “should” be happening. Reality is it’s obviously not happening. So until DCPS can rectify that problem, the teacher and the students, who are the overwhelming majority, should be supported and not excuses made for the student that the system has failed. That is if there is even a reason to explain his behavior.

It's not just DCPS, it is this school. Look at their budget. So what? All the SEL people get paid to do nothing?