What happened to this California family?

[Anonymous]

It’s s just odd that they alll were found sitting. Even the wife who went ahead was sitting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s s just odd that they alll were found sitting. Even the wife who went ahead was sitting?

You get so hot that you aren’t thinking straight.

They walk until they sit and then they die

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All of the people saying the "white guy went crazy and killed his family" are awfully quiet now..

All of the “Asian gold-digger, lazy, depressed, narcissistic, drug-using, orgy-participating party animal who killed her family” PP are no where to be found. What happened to Jonny’s friend who had inside info that his parents were burying their son and granddaughter but not Ellen.

[Anonymous]

Well, here's an interesting article.

https://www.insider.com/heat-dehydration-kill-family-hike-common-tragedy-survival-expert-2021-10

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of the people saying the "white guy went crazy and killed his family" are awfully quiet now..

All of the “Asian gold-digger, lazy, depressed, narcissistic, drug-using, orgy-participating party animal who killed her family” PP are no where to be found. What happened to Jonny’s friend who had inside info that his parents were burying their son and granddaughter but not Ellen.

Their still over on websleuths arguing over manner versus cause of death. They have accepted that heatstroke is the cause, but not the manner, i.e., Mariposa is full of murderers luring hikers to trails so they die of heatstroke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s s just odd that they alll were found sitting. Even the wife who went ahead was sitting?

You get so hot that you aren’t thinking straight.

They walk until they sit and then they die

Not usually how it happens, hence the initial mystery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s s just odd that they alll were found sitting. Even the wife who went ahead was sitting?

I have seen no reports that the wife was discovered in a sitting position.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Well, here's an interesting article.

https://www.insider.com/heat-dehydration-kill-family-hike-common-tragedy-survival-expert-2021-10

I feel like this article says what the experienced hikers and people from hot climates were saying in the first 50 pages of this thread, once the details about this trail were released. If you go to the Grand Canyon, there are a ton of signs warning people about water, etc. As you go down into the canyon, the temps rise by 20 degrees or more, and then of course the return trip is MUCH harder than the trip in, because the return is uphill. People always underestimate that. The rule of thumb at the GC is that if you want a 3 hour hike, turn around before you hit the end of the first hour, because it will take you more than 2x as long to hike back out.
And when my kid goes on Boy Scout hikes around here (so not extreme heat), I think they tell him to bring two 2-liter water bottles just for himself. I seriously wonder whether this was one of those situations where each parent thought the other one had packed an additional bottle or two, and by the time they realized it, they were already there and didn't want to cancel the hike. Let's be honest -- we've all had the experience where you get there and realize the water bottle was left on the kitchen counter, or you both say "I thought you were bringing it." Its so sad, all around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Well, here's an interesting article.

https://www.insider.com/heat-dehydration-kill-family-hike-common-tragedy-survival-expert-2021-10

I feel like this article says what the experienced hikers and people from hot climates were saying in the first 50 pages of this thread, once the details about this trail were released. If you go to the Grand Canyon, there are a ton of signs warning people about water, etc. As you go down into the canyon, the temps rise by 20 degrees or more, and then of course the return trip is MUCH harder than the trip in, because the return is uphill. People always underestimate that. The rule of thumb at the GC is that if you want a 3 hour hike, turn around before you hit the end of the first hour, because it will take you more than 2x as long to hike back out.
And when my kid goes on Boy Scout hikes around here (so not extreme heat), I think they tell him to bring two 2-liter water bottles just for himself. I seriously wonder whether this was one of those situations where each parent thought the other one had packed an additional bottle or two, and by the time they realized it, they were already there and didn't want to cancel the hike. Let's be honest -- we've all had the experience where you get there and realize the water bottle was left on the kitchen counter, or you both say "I thought you were bringing it." Its so sad, all around.

Funny you mention the Grand Canyon. My 22 yo DS went on a road trip this summer to western National Parks with college friends, and they hiked partially down into the Grand Canyon. One of the girls - very fit, cross country runner - got heat exhaustion and DS and his friends had to carry her up and she was Medavaced to the hospital, where she spent 2 days recovering. He said she was completely incoherent, spasming, vomiting - they were trying to cool her down with water, but she passed out as they were carrying her and they kept checking her pulse because they thought she had died.

It is so sad. May they RIP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The mom’s IG page: https://instagram.com/echungster?utm_medium=copy_link

The doggy even had its own hashtag: #oskipup

I’ve been reading the Websleuths forum plus comments on the local media covering the case. People are really thinking it may have been heat exhaustion. The weather was absolutely brutal that day and they were in the process of climbing very steep, unshaded switchbacks to get back to their car. Water alone can’t save you from heat stroke, so they were probably trying to conserve some for the moment they got into the car.

Hard to imagine a couple that hiked all across California on weekends and did a 10-day hike in the Gobi Desert of Mongolia being overcome by heat exhaustion in their own backyard.

Just saying.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BkhLD4khDUY/

Here's the temps from the nearest town, which is a higher elevation than where they were located (I took this from WebSleuths):

As there has been some discussion about temperatures in the area I thought I would post what the weather station in El Portal was recording for Temp/ Humidity that day.

6:51AM 53°F 49%
7:51AM 77°F 47%
8:51AM 85°F 37%
9:51AM 92°F 28%
10:51AM 99°F 22%
11:51AM 103°F 20%
12:51PM 107°F 17%
1:51PM 108°F 16%
2:51PM 109°F 16%
3:51PM 107°F 18%
4:51PM 105°F 19%
5:51PM 101°F 22%
6:51PM 98°F 24%
7:51PM 94°F 28%

This town is at a higher elevation than where the couple was found. The canyon they were in unshaded from the sun was probably even warmer temps.

I'm not saying the weather wasn't horrible. I'm saying they both have extensive experience as hikers, as California residents, and with extreme temperatures in unfriendly arid environments.

Do I believe baby would have been overcome? Sure.

But the parents? Not likely.

Even the dog has been traveling with them in the desert since at least 2016.

I told you it was the baby!! The weather was too much for the little girl, she perished, parents got delirious trying to save her. And the dog was tied to them and couldn't escape.

A survival trainer involved with the case wrote an email to detectives that the young couple likely died while attempting to save their infant daughter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I still think it was heatstroke.

https://www.healthing.ca/news/heat-wave-linked-to-massive-spike-in-sudden-deaths-in-b-c

I just hope that poor baby didn’t die all alone.

Baby died first. Parents made mistakes trying to save her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After reading through all the information, it doesn't sound like they intended to do a day long hike. And if the dog didn't have protection for it's feet, Jonathan probably found himself trying to carry the dog AND the baby. With the scorching temperatures, he reached a point where he simply couldn't go any further. He was probably also developing heat stroke. And that's why he was found in the sitting position with the dog and baby next to him.
Then his wife was also succumbing to heat stroke. I gather they were trying to stick together as a group, but when Jonathan couldn't go any further she ventured ahead to seek help. Maybe due to her health issues she couldn't take the baby with her. By then it was too late. Soon after she also collapsed.
Very heartbreaking and tragic.

I think this is right, and I’ve been posting on this thread since the 3rd page.

At the end, sticking together is what killed them. At a certain point, you need to ditch the “fur baby” if you’re struggling to physically save yourself or a child. I know it’s terrible, but the best course of action was to leave the dog behind tied up in a shady location. That older dog with the heavy fur likely began having trouble first, either thru burned paws or heat exhaustion. I’m willing to bet money on it. They then killed themselves struggling to help the dog.

Had they managed to get back to safety and cell phone reception, they could’ve called the park service and gotten the fire gate unlocked. The rancher could then drive the fire road to rescue the dog.

I think the big story here is that people need to be a lot more careful when taking their pets on outdoor adventures. If something bad happens, you need to face the fact that you may be put in a situation where you will need to sacrifice your animal. This recently happened to a friend of mine who was involved in a sinking sailboat incident off the coast of California - his dog was left on the boat and lost at sea.

Well you ended up blaming the dog when its the only one that didn't conclusively die of heat stroke. In fact - it died because the parents had it tied to them as they desperately tried to save the dying child who succumbed to the heat elements first.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the baby died. The father sat down in shock. The mother ran off in panic then heat exhaustion + heat stroke took her out.

The timing just doesn't make sense to me, that they'd all die within a minute or two of each other.

We don't know that they did. They might have all collapsed within minutes of each other (baby dying first - maybe she was too quiet and when they finally checked her they realized she wasn't breathing) and then the adults died were they fell. Could have taken hours. But since they weren't discovered until Tuesday (48 hours later) - it would be possible they were still alive but exhausted and dehydrated on Sunday/Monday.

You can survive without water for three days but you can't survive without water that long in such extreme temperatures. And their cell phones had no reception to call for aid.

Hello - this is it. They didn't realize the baby was in trouble before it was too late. By the time they realized she was in distress from heat exhaustion, it was too late.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the baby died. The father sat down in shock. The mother ran off in panic then heat exhaustion + heat stroke took her out.

The timing just doesn't make sense to me, that they'd all die within a minute or two of each other.

We don't know that they did. They might have all collapsed within minutes of each other (baby dying first - maybe she was too quiet and when they finally checked her they realized she wasn't breathing) and then the adults died were they fell. Could have taken hours. But since they weren't discovered until Tuesday (48 hours later) - it would be possible they were still alive but exhausted and dehydrated on Sunday/Monday.

You can survive without water for three days but you can't survive without water that long in such extreme temperatures. And their cell phones had no reception to call for aid.

Hello - this is it. They didn't realize the baby was in trouble before it was too late. By the time they realized she was in distress from heat exhaustion, it was too late.

You left out an important part,

survival trainer involved with the case wrote an email to detectives that the young couple likely died while attempting to save their infant

Likely, "involved," and wrote an email. Yeah, that's iron clad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the baby died. The father sat down in shock. The mother ran off in panic then heat exhaustion + heat stroke took her out.

The timing just doesn't make sense to me, that they'd all die within a minute or two of each other.

We don't know that they did. They might have all collapsed within minutes of each other (baby dying first - maybe she was too quiet and when they finally checked her they realized she wasn't breathing) and then the adults died were they fell. Could have taken hours. But since they weren't discovered until Tuesday (48 hours later) - it would be possible they were still alive but exhausted and dehydrated on Sunday/Monday.

You can survive without water for three days but you can't survive without water that long in such extreme temperatures. And their cell phones had no reception to call for aid.

Hello - this is it. They didn't realize the baby was in trouble before it was too late. By the time they realized she was in distress from heat exhaustion, it was too late.

You left out an important part,

survival trainer involved with the case wrote an email to detectives that the young couple likely died while attempting to save their infant

Likely, "involved," and wrote an email. Yeah, that's iron clad.

Also, link?