DA vs ECNL vs everything else

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
And you might be one of them with your emotional reactions. Just sayin.

You're ridiculous. There was nothing "emotional" about the PP's comments. There is, however, something manipulative about calling any post you disagree with as an "emotional reaction" to try and shut that person down.

Calling people "crazy" is not an attempt to shut down and discredit?

The PP didn't call any specific poster crazy, so no. You however specifically went after him/her.

Oh, calling people on the board in general "crazy" is better than calling out a particular post? Got it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious, how many of you actually played soccer, watch soccer regularly and really understand what is involved. Just curious that is all.

Please teach us o wise one!

(Not sure playing soccer, watching soccer or even coaching winning soccer teams qualifies someone to judge a player's future potential.)

So what does? Enlighten me mighty one. You know how ridiculous your comment is. I fell off my chair. Slapped myself to make sure what i just read made no damn sense whatsoever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious, how many of you actually played soccer, watch soccer regularly and really understand what is involved. Just curious that is all.

Please teach us o wise one!

(Not sure playing soccer, watching soccer or even coaching winning soccer teams qualifies someone to judge a player's future potential.)

Not knowing how to do something or having any relevant experience with the topic at hand may work if you want to currently be a President but I'm not sure how not having played, coached or watched soccer makes someone better at evaluating talent or anything soccer related.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious, how many of you actually played soccer, watch soccer regularly and really understand what is involved. Just curious that is all.

I did (and still do). I watch it as well. I like to watch multiple pro leagues, because of the differences in style, tactics, and even talent level.

But I get your point. I would wager most of these people didn't and don't. Like hearing the ridiculous parent comments (even within my own club) to refs at games.

Same here. I watch religiously, especially analysis of the games after a specific match. I think most people are in over their heads, not really knowing what they talk about. I been in soccer for long time. I constantly hear and see parents that haven't a clue, especially when they try to coach from the sideline. It is literally comical. What they are doing is detrimental to their kids. They think they are helping, but instead harming development of their kids. If they know SO MUCH, why don't you coach? Right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious, how many of you actually played soccer, watch soccer regularly and really understand what is involved. Just curious that is all.

I did (and still do). I watch it as well. I like to watch multiple pro leagues, because of the differences in style, tactics, and even talent level.

But I get your point. I would wager most of these people didn't and don't. Like hearing the ridiculous parent comments (even within my own club) to refs at games.

Same here. I watch religiously, especially analysis of the games after a specific match. I think most people are in over their heads, not really knowing what they talk about. I been in soccer for long time. I constantly hear and see parents that haven't a clue, especially when they try to coach from the sideline. It is literally comical. What they are doing is detrimental to their kids. They think they are helping, but instead harming development of their kids. If they know SO MUCH, why don't you coach? Right?

How would you rate premiere league vs La Liga?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want to know if a club really develops talent all you have to do is look at the teams current make up and figure out where they came from.

Lets take FCV for example. Their 1st ever U9, U10, U11, U12, and U13 group started five years ago. Everything up until that time at FCV was only ECNL (U14 and above). That aforementioned group is now U14, U15, U16, U17, U18.

How many of those kids on the current DA teams do you think came from the original age group pools?

Answer: Very Few.

Like 15% to 20%? I guess stealing kids from other clubs is their forte. However, with other DA's and ECNL teams within close proximity, it will likely hurt their ability to woo parents/kids to their club.

Never said they stole kids. Parents bring their kids to them. In search of the winning team. FCV has pick of the litter. That's why they can discard talent left and right. It get replenished. It will continue to get replenished. That's why parents and players get emotionally drained in these hyper competitive environments. Always on the chopping block.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A star player wil not sit behind a star player. They will go elsewhere and be a star player.

People lose sight of the fact that it's a game meant to be played.

This is my point about development. It's not right or wrong to be more focused on just wanting to play the game as opposed to being the best possible player you can be when you're 20. But those two goals require VERY DIFFERENT decisions year to year, season to season. You parents jump around clubs all the time due this star player mentality. It's like if your kid was learning to ride a bike and fell, you'd put the training wheels back on. It's fine if the kid is having fun. But it's not making them a better player or better able to deal with adversity.

I'd proposed that if you're on this thread "ECNL vs. DA vs. ..." that you are at least someone subscribed to the idea that you want your DS / DD to be the best they can be at age 20. If that is true, you'd have a better chance at getting him or her there if you'd listen to some professionals once in a while. "The game is meant to be played", "Winning does matter", "I pay too much to watch them sit on the bench", "I'm not paying for them to be on anyone's B team" are all things parents say who should not be anywhere near a conversation about player development.

It's fine. Just keep the perspective once in a while if you can please. The teachers might actually know what's best for your kid. What you're seeing at any youth soccer level really isn't true soccer. You have no perspective. You do not know what you do not know in other words. The mistakes and bad decisions and lack of specific skills needed to succeed at the higher levels are more common not in every game. The kids just aren't there yet, not matter what teams they're beating at other youth events. Dozens of full scholarship D1 athletes get drafted then cut every year in MLS and NWSL, and MLS at least is barely in the global top 20 of leagues.

If you want to pay to watch your kid win and play all the time when they're kids, these clubs will take your money. But if you don't buy into the development plan it doesn't mean they "wronged" you. It more likely means you think you know better than the professionals.

This is a fine, idealistic point and some of it rings true even in practice.

However, many here have undoubtedly seen "the teachers" promote kids who just happen to have relatives coaching for the club, older brothers/sisters (more financial weight), buddies with coaching staff/TDs, etc... These promoted kids often play at a lower level or aren't as athletically gifted and those who deserve more of a challenge but aren't promoted. This is still a developmental concern and NOT about playing with the A team or just winning in many cases, sorry; it's about seeking out a developmentally appropriate level for your kid, for whom you are the only true champion. In fact, you know you are in one of these situations when the "teachers" tell you exactly what you said: "you don't know what you are seeing" aka don't believe your lyin' eyes, despite your knowledge of the game/background (or even the opinion of other professionals, for that matter).

Wish it all were as simple as you paint, but that just isn't so.

I definitely wasn't saying all the coaches out there know what they're doing or do the right thing. This is where club leadership comes in. Is the club run top to bottom with vertical integration preached and practiced? Do they spread playing time around? Do they run good training sessions with maximum touches on the ball at younger ages and actually working on issues seen in games at older ages? Do coaches from all teams know and help and attend games at least monthly of the other teams? Does the head coach actually run the team and only has 2 teams at most? Does the technical director / director of coaching coach no more than 1 team themselves, if any at all and do they show up at the other teams sessions and evaluate their coaches and review training plans? Does every player have a personalized plan in place and reviewed regularly? Can your TD / DOC even name 75% of players in the top 2 teams in each age group?

Or, are you playing in a club where a couple of guys are doing 3 or more teams full time, show up half the time if you're lucky, are on their phones at the beginning of training, barely email, don't have time to talk after practice because they're hustling to the next gig, and you never see anyone actually in charge of the club's player development attending training or overseeing things? Or worse, outsourced coaches from some company wearing gear from 3 different clubs or brands who are literally only doing this as a job.

I proposed that only the DC and WS pro academies, and a few really big clubs like Bethesda, Loudoun, Pipeline, PWSI, Richmond Strikers and Kickers are anywhere near the "right" way to do things with a bigger picture somewhat in mind and without needing to hire outside "trainers" or constantly recruit entire teams to come to their club just to have a decent level of competitiveness. Everyone else is pretending and hustling every day to put food on the table or for their own egos, or they very admirably just focus on providing a solid service to their community without trying to be Barcelona or City.

Would like to know if there is a single club does such?

It's required in the DA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want to know if a club really develops talent all you have to do is look at the teams current make up and figure out where they came from.

Lets take FCV for example. Their 1st ever U9, U10, U11, U12, and U13 group started five years ago. Everything up until that time at FCV was only ECNL (U14 and above). That aforementioned group is now U14, U15, U16, U17, U18.

How many of those kids on the current DA teams do you think came from the original age group pools?

Answer: Very Few.

Like 15% to 20%? I guess stealing kids from other clubs is their forte. However, with other DA's and ECNL teams within close proximity, it will likely hurt their ability to woo parents/kids to their club.

Never said they stole kids. Parents bring their kids to them. In search of the winning team. FCV has pick of the litter. That's why they can discard talent left and right. It get replenished. It will continue to get replenished. That's why parents and players get emotionally drained in these hyper competitive environments. Always on the chopping block.

Their ability to recruit will be put to the test in the coming seasons as many clubs around them also offer pathways that were once far more limited when there was only ECNL and McLean was the only other choice. With talent spread across more clubs than ever FCV, as well as other clubs, will actually have to develop and retain talent. It will remain to be seen if FCV can have continued success in this new landscape.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A star player wil not sit behind a star player. They will go elsewhere and be a star player.

People lose sight of the fact that it's a game meant to be played.

This is my point about development. It's not right or wrong to be more focused on just wanting to play the game as opposed to being the best possible player you can be when you're 20. But those two goals require VERY DIFFERENT decisions year to year, season to season. You parents jump around clubs all the time due this star player mentality. It's like if your kid was learning to ride a bike and fell, you'd put the training wheels back on. It's fine if the kid is having fun. But it's not making them a better player or better able to deal with adversity.

I'd proposed that if you're on this thread "ECNL vs. DA vs. ..." that you are at least someone subscribed to the idea that you want your DS / DD to be the best they can be at age 20. If that is true, you'd have a better chance at getting him or her there if you'd listen to some professionals once in a while. "The game is meant to be played", "Winning does matter", "I pay too much to watch them sit on the bench", "I'm not paying for them to be on anyone's B team" are all things parents say who should not be anywhere near a conversation about player development.

It's fine. Just keep the perspective once in a while if you can please. The teachers might actually know what's best for your kid. What you're seeing at any youth soccer level really isn't true soccer. You have no perspective. You do not know what you do not know in other words. The mistakes and bad decisions and lack of specific skills needed to succeed at the higher levels are more common not in every game. The kids just aren't there yet, not matter what teams they're beating at other youth events. Dozens of full scholarship D1 athletes get drafted then cut every year in MLS and NWSL, and MLS at least is barely in the global top 20 of leagues.

If you want to pay to watch your kid win and play all the time when they're kids, these clubs will take your money. But if you don't buy into the development plan it doesn't mean they "wronged" you. It more likely means you think you know better than the professionals.

+10000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A star player wil not sit behind a star player. They will go elsewhere and be a star player.

People lose sight of the fact that it's a game meant to be played.

This is my point about development. It's not right or wrong to be more focused on just wanting to play the game as opposed to being the best possible player you can be when you're 20. But those two goals require VERY DIFFERENT decisions year to year, season to season. You parents jump around clubs all the time due this star player mentality. It's like if your kid was learning to ride a bike and fell, you'd put the training wheels back on. It's fine if the kid is having fun. But it's not making them a better player or better able to deal with adversity.

I'd proposed that if you're on this thread "ECNL vs. DA vs. ..." that you are at least someone subscribed to the idea that you want your DS / DD to be the best they can be at age 20. If that is true, you'd have a better chance at getting him or her there if you'd listen to some professionals once in a while. "The game is meant to be played", "Winning does matter", "I pay too much to watch them sit on the bench", "I'm not paying for them to be on anyone's B team" are all things parents say who should not be anywhere near a conversation about player development.

It's fine. Just keep the perspective once in a while if you can please. The teachers might actually know what's best for your kid. What you're seeing at any youth soccer level really isn't true soccer. You have no perspective. You do not know what you do not know in other words. The mistakes and bad decisions and lack of specific skills needed to succeed at the higher levels are more common not in every game. The kids just aren't there yet, not matter what teams they're beating at other youth events. Dozens of full scholarship D1 athletes get drafted then cut every year in MLS and NWSL, and MLS at least is barely in the global top 20 of leagues.

If you want to pay to watch your kid win and play all the time when they're kids, these clubs will take your money. But if you don't buy into the development plan it doesn't mean they "wronged" you. It more likely means you think you know better than the professionals.

This is a fine, idealistic point and some of it rings true even in practice.

However, many here have undoubtedly seen "the teachers" promote kids who just happen to have relatives coaching for the club, older brothers/sisters (more financial weight), buddies with coaching staff/TDs, etc... These promoted kids often play at a lower level or aren't as athletically gifted and those who deserve more of a challenge but aren't promoted. This is still a developmental concern and NOT about playing with the A team or just winning in many cases, sorry; it's about seeking out a developmentally appropriate level for your kid, for whom you are the only true champion. In fact, you know you are in one of these situations when the "teachers" tell you exactly what you said: "you don't know what you are seeing" aka don't believe your lyin' eyes, despite your knowledge of the game/background (or even the opinion of other professionals, for that matter).

Wish it all were as simple as you paint, but that just isn't so.

I definitely wasn't saying all the coaches out there know what they're doing or do the right thing. This is where club leadership comes in. Is the club run top to bottom with vertical integration preached and practiced? Do they spread playing time around? Do they run good training sessions with maximum touches on the ball at younger ages and actually working on issues seen in games at older ages? Do coaches from all teams know and help and attend games at least monthly of the other teams? Does the head coach actually run the team and only has 2 teams at most? Does the technical director / director of coaching coach no more than 1 team themselves, if any at all and do they show up at the other teams sessions and evaluate their coaches and review training plans? Does every player have a personalized plan in place and reviewed regularly? Can your TD / DOC even name 75% of players in the top 2 teams in each age group?

Or, are you playing in a club where a couple of guys are doing 3 or more teams full time, show up half the time if you're lucky, are on their phones at the beginning of training, barely email, don't have time to talk after practice because they're hustling to the next gig, and you never see anyone actually in charge of the club's player development attending training or overseeing things? Or worse, outsourced coaches from some company wearing gear from 3 different clubs or brands who are literally only doing this as a job.

I proposed that only the DC and WS pro academies, and a few really big clubs like Bethesda, Loudoun, Pipeline, PWSI, Richmond Strikers and Kickers are anywhere near the "right" way to do things with a bigger picture somewhat in mind and without needing to hire outside "trainers" or constantly recruit entire teams to come to their club just to have a decent level of competitiveness. Everyone else is pretending and hustling every day to put food on the table or for their own egos, or they very admirably just focus on providing a solid service to their community without trying to be Barcelona or City.

Would like to know if there is a single club does such?

It's required in the DA

So no club does it below U12/U13

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious, how many of you actually played soccer, watch soccer regularly and really understand what is involved. Just curious that is all.

I did (and still do). I watch it as well. I like to watch multiple pro leagues, because of the differences in style, tactics, and even talent level.

But I get your point. I would wager most of these people didn't and don't. Like hearing the ridiculous parent comments (even within my own club) to refs at games.

Same here. I watch religiously, especially analysis of the games after a specific match. I think most people are in over their heads, not really knowing what they talk about. I been in soccer for long time. I constantly hear and see parents that haven't a clue, especially when they try to coach from the sideline. It is literally comical. What they are doing is detrimental to their kids. They think they are helping, but instead harming development of their kids. If they know SO MUCH, why don't you coach? Right?

I'm glad you all agree on the favoritism and nepotism on display in youth soccer in this area, given you all love to change the subject when you can't argue against a point. I find very funny the arrogance in assuming that no one else plays, has played, watches, or coaches/has coached. I also didn't realize there were so many club loyalists and coaches on this site. But it doesn't surprise me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want to know if a club really develops talent all you have to do is look at the teams current make up and figure out where they came from.

Lets take FCV for example. Their 1st ever U9, U10, U11, U12, and U13 group started five years ago. Everything up until that time at FCV was only ECNL (U14 and above). That aforementioned group is now U14, U15, U16, U17, U18.

How many of those kids on the current DA teams do you think came from the original age group pools?

Answer: Very Few.

Like 15% to 20%? I guess stealing kids from other clubs is their forte. However, with other DA's and ECNL teams within close proximity, it will likely hurt their ability to woo parents/kids to their club.

Never said they stole kids. Parents bring their kids to them. In search of the winning team. FCV has pick of the litter. That's why they can discard talent left and right. It get replenished. It will continue to get replenished. That's why parents and players get emotionally drained in these hyper competitive environments. Always on the chopping block.

Their ability to recruit will be put to the test in the coming seasons as many clubs around them also offer pathways that were once far more limited when there was only ECNL and McLean was the only other choice. With talent spread across more clubs than ever FCV, as well as other clubs, will actually have to develop and retain talent. It will remain to be seen if FCV can have continued success in this new landscape.

Winning team always attracts the top talent. ALWAYS! As long as they are winning, everyone is happy. You are overplaying the draw of ECNL in this area. It will not do what you think it will do. DA is the top option in NOVA going forward. The ECNL teams next year will be weaker then they were this year...and this year was weaker than last year. That's the trend going forward. In my humble opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you want to know if a club really develops talent all you have to do is look at the teams current make up and figure out where they came from.

Lets take FCV for example. Their 1st ever U9, U10, U11, U12, and U13 group started five years ago. Everything up until that time at FCV was only ECNL (U14 and above). That aforementioned group is now U14, U15, U16, U17, U18.

How many of those kids on the current DA teams do you think came from the original age group pools?

Answer: Very Few.

So would it be better if 90% of the kids that were on the teammate U9 remain at U17? Wouldn't there be charges of favoritism then? Would that just mean that the players lucky enough to make it at U9 are top team players for life? Sometimes kids develop slower or faster than others. The training environment, the league and the player pool are just part of what makes up development. You also have the player's drive and ambition, induing how much work they put in outside of practice, the player's intelligence and their physical development once they hit puberty. Expecting the same bunch of kids to make up the team from U9 to U17 is foolish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious, how many of you actually played soccer, watch soccer regularly and really understand what is involved. Just curious that is all.

I did (and still do). I watch it as well. I like to watch multiple pro leagues, because of the differences in style, tactics, and even talent level.

But I get your point. I would wager most of these people didn't and don't. Like hearing the ridiculous parent comments (even within my own club) to refs at games.

Same here. I watch religiously, especially analysis of the games after a specific match. I think most people are in over their heads, not really knowing what they talk about. I been in soccer for long time. I constantly hear and see parents that haven't a clue, especially when they try to coach from the sideline. It is literally comical. What they are doing is detrimental to their kids. They think they are helping, but instead harming development of their kids. If they know SO MUCH, why don't you coach? Right?

I'm glad you all agree on the favoritism and nepotism on display in youth soccer in this area, given you all love to change the subject when you can't argue against a point. I find very funny the arrogance in assuming that no one else plays, has played, watches, or coaches/has coached. I also didn't realize there were so many club loyalists and coaches on this site. But it doesn't surprise me.

Wow, what a great post. Very helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious, how many of you actually played soccer, watch soccer regularly and really understand what is involved. Just curious that is all.

I did (and still do). I watch it as well. I like to watch multiple pro leagues, because of the differences in style, tactics, and even talent level.

But I get your point. I would wager most of these people didn't and don't. Like hearing the ridiculous parent comments (even within my own club) to refs at games.

Same here. I watch religiously, especially analysis of the games after a specific match. I think most people are in over their heads, not really knowing what they talk about. I been in soccer for long time. I constantly hear and see parents that haven't a clue, especially when they try to coach from the sideline. It is literally comical. What they are doing is detrimental to their kids. They think they are helping, but instead harming development of their kids. If they know SO MUCH, why don't you coach? Right?

I'm glad you all agree on the favoritism and nepotism on display in youth soccer in this area, given you all love to change the subject when you can't argue against a point. I find very funny the arrogance in assuming that no one else plays, has played, watches, or coaches/has coached. I also didn't realize there were so many club loyalists and coaches on this site. But it doesn't surprise me.

Wow, what a great post. Very helpful.

LOL-just like the post he responded to. Lots of bullcrap in this thread