Handmaid’s Tale season 4

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Nick being a good guy is wishful thinking. At what point do you imagine he turned spy — before or after he killed Americans and overthrew his own government? I think it’s clear he loves June and regrets his role in creating and maintaining Gilead, but let’s not forget that he was a Gilead soldier long before there was a Gilead. If this show suddenly decides to say “Oh, he was a plant from even before the rebellion,” I will lose it because it’s so very unrealistic and just pandering to viewers who want to think the cute enemy soldier really is a good guy.

I think that Nick was very malleable and apathetic when he was younger. He wanted money to take care of his family, and joined the “cause” in order to do that- a soldier for hire. Once he was in there was no getting out. I hope that his relationship with June changed him. Obviously she sees something more than a moral void in him. I don’t think the show in general presents people as just good or bad, though; most of the characters are morally complicated.

I think there are a lot of identity issues in play as well. Everyone has been brainwashed and manipulated, stripped down to nothing but what Gilead had made them.

Lydia stands out. I don’t think she particularly enjoys her role, but she’s good at it and it’s her identity. What other choice does she have? There is so much psychologically at play, too (Stockholm Syndrome, etc.) What would she do if she left? How difficult would reintegration be, especially considering her past. This sort of forced moral complexity is so interesting to watch.

I feel like we are all going to be disappointed in Nick's end story unless a lot more is revealed during the rest of this season. They started out strong with implying Nick had some contact with Mayday (he was hiding June at the Boston Globe), but it's really dropped off since then.

I don't think he's a bad guy, but perhaps like Luke, is a passive guy. I don't know.

Lydia is an interesting one. I don't think she is at all motivated by a sense of purpose around Gilead. Maybe initially. She wants power. And no spoilers, but her origin story in the show is very different from her origin story in the Testaments. So her fate could be anything.

Interesting! I’ve yet to read the book, but it’s on my list. But from what we see of Lydia (on the show) it almost feels as though there are moments when you can tell she has a conscience, but she’s too far in (maybe too old or scared to escape?) to do anything about it. I even sense she’s envious of June and projecting. That’s just how it feels to me as a viewer with no knowledge of the books.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nick being a good guy is wishful thinking. At what point do you imagine he turned spy — before or after he killed Americans and overthrew his own government? I think it’s clear he loves June and regrets his role in creating and maintaining Gilead, but let’s not forget that he was a Gilead soldier long before there was a Gilead. If this show suddenly decides to say “Oh, he was a plant from even before the rebellion,” I will lose it because it’s so very unrealistic and just pandering to viewers who want to think the cute enemy soldier really is a good guy.

I think that Nick was very malleable and apathetic when he was younger. He wanted money to take care of his family, and joined the “cause” in order to do that- a soldier for hire. Once he was in there was no getting out. I hope that his relationship with June changed him. Obviously she sees something more than a moral void in him. I don’t think the show in general presents people as just good or bad, though; most of the characters are morally complicated.

I think there are a lot of identity issues in play as well. Everyone has been brainwashed and manipulated, stripped down to nothing but what Gilead had made them.

Lydia stands out. I don’t think she particularly enjoys her role, but she’s good at it and it’s her identity. What other choice does she have? There is so much psychologically at play, too (Stockholm Syndrome, etc.) What would she do if she left? How difficult would reintegration be, especially considering her past. This sort of forced moral complexity is so interesting to watch.

I feel like we are all going to be disappointed in Nick's end story unless a lot more is revealed during the rest of this season. They started out strong with implying Nick had some contact with Mayday (he was hiding June at the Boston Globe), but it's really dropped off since then.

I don't think he's a bad guy, but perhaps like Luke, is a passive guy. I don't know.

Lydia is an interesting one. I don't think she is at all motivated by a sense of purpose around Gilead. Maybe initially. She wants power. And no spoilers, but her origin story in the show is very different from her origin story in the Testaments. So her fate could be anything.

Interesting! I’ve yet to read the book, but it’s on my list. But from what we see of Lydia (on the show) it almost feels as though there are moments when you can tell she has a conscience, but she’s too far in (maybe too old or scared to escape?) to do anything about it. I even sense she’s envious of June and projecting. That’s just how it feels to me as a viewer with no knowledge of the books.

I think you're picking up on inconsistencies in the writing on Lydia and Nick, to be fair.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Samira Wiley’s performance was so strong that I wish they’d gone deeper into her story with her girlfriend in Canada and the aide organization rather than reverse engineering old drama between Luke, June, and Moira.

I don’t care about the GF but agree SW was wonderful. The old drama was dumb and unnecessarily dilated the storyline. Could have been compressed to 1/2 the allotted screen time so we could have seen more action elsewhere. I think this may have been the single worst written episode of the series.

I loved Moira always, but this episode was exceptional. Also, Samira Wiley and her wife just had a baby!

I was so mad that June stole that pitcher. I think that it shows her pettiness at times.

I thought that the pitcher stealing scene actually showed that she really valued her times with Moira.

I really hated the flashbacks in this episode. Dumb, petty, who cares. The convo on the steps with Luke and the baby Hannah flashback would have sufficed perfectly well. Give Moira something better to do.

I think the flashbacks were important to show why June was vehemently against going to Canada. Luke was the one who wanted a baby desperately, and Moira had put the idea in June’s head that she alone wasn’t enough for him, without a baby. Luke and Moira had both complained about June remaining in Gilead, but the truth is they both played a part in that decision.

This is all a new plant because a) there is zero inherent conflict with Luke and b) they need conflict to make it interesting

June sent that tape telling Luke that Nicole's father was Nick and that she loved both Luke and Nick.

Yes, and yet Luke was totally chill and started raising the child of June and Nick. So....zerio conflictio

Every significant relationship in HT features conflict. It’s one of the central themes of the show.

What is HT?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Samira Wiley’s performance was so strong that I wish they’d gone deeper into her story with her girlfriend in Canada and the aide organization rather than reverse engineering old drama between Luke, June, and Moira.

I don’t care about the GF but agree SW was wonderful. The old drama was dumb and unnecessarily dilated the storyline. Could have been compressed to 1/2 the allotted screen time so we could have seen more action elsewhere. I think this may have been the single worst written episode of the series.

I loved Moira always, but this episode was exceptional. Also, Samira Wiley and her wife just had a baby!

I was so mad that June stole that pitcher. I think that it shows her pettiness at times.

I thought that the pitcher stealing scene actually showed that she really valued her times with Moira.

I really hated the flashbacks in this episode. Dumb, petty, who cares. The convo on the steps with Luke and the baby Hannah flashback would have sufficed perfectly well. Give Moira something better to do.

I think the flashbacks were important to show why June was vehemently against going to Canada. Luke was the one who wanted a baby desperately, and Moira had put the idea in June’s head that she alone wasn’t enough for him, without a baby. Luke and Moira had both complained about June remaining in Gilead, but the truth is they both played a part in that decision.

This is all a new plant because a) there is zero inherent conflict with Luke and b) they need conflict to make it interesting

June sent that tape telling Luke that Nicole's father was Nick and that she loved both Luke and Nick.

Yes, and yet Luke was totally chill and started raising the child of June and Nick. So....zerio conflictio

Every significant relationship in HT features conflict. It’s one of the central themes of the show.

What is HT?

The... Handmaid’s Tale

[Anonymous]

So much time has gone by from the time Luke was separated from June and Hannah during their attempt to get to Canada to being picked up by Moira in Chicago?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So much time has gone by from the time Luke was separated from June and Hannah during their attempt to get to Canada to being picked up by Moira in Chicago?

I’m going to guess 3-4 years. Nicole is what, about a year? A few months at the Lawrences, another year for gestation and trying to conceive Nicole, a few months before that trying to conceive and miscarrying (do I remember that right?), however much time was needed for Handmaid brainwashing.

[Anonymous]

Trailer for the next episode is out:

Looks very June-centric, which is fine I guess.

I find it odd that they called it "Home" since they are all part of an American diaspora, but maybe that's also a nod to the new reality.

I do feel like we are owed a twist in this episode or the next.

And are we going to see McKenna Grace again? I tend to think she's one of Lydia's new Handmaids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So much time has gone by from the time Luke was separated from June and Hannah during their attempt to get to Canada to being picked up by Moira in Chicago?

I’m going to guess 3-4 years. Nicole is what, about a year? A few months at the Lawrences, another year for gestation and trying to conceive Nicole, a few months before that trying to conceive and miscarrying (do I remember that right?), however much time was needed for Handmaid brainwashing.

I think this is right. Hannah was in some level of school in the before times - I think she could have been between 5 or 6. The actress playing her is growing faster than the plot can keep up though!

[Anonymous]

I'm glad June got on the boat because if she was going to stay in Gilead again, I think I would've been done with this show.

I continue to be underwhelmed by Luke. In fact, the scene where they reunited was just off until June apologized for not having Hannah. That part was sad. But Luke just stood there. He didn't even say anything to her. And then when they were walking, he was 4 steps ahead of her. I get that it might be complicated for both of them, but he didn't even seem happy to see her.

And why is it all on June to bring Hannah back? Luke escaped years ago yet June is the one risking her life time and again to rescue Hannah and apologizing to Luke for not having her. Her mom guilt is so relatable yet it makes me really angry at Luke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm glad June got on the boat because if she was going to stay in Gilead again, I think I would've been done with this show.

I continue to be underwhelmed by Luke. In fact, the scene where they reunited was just off until June apologized for not having Hannah. That part was sad. But Luke just stood there. He didn't even say anything to her. And then when they were walking, he was 4 steps ahead of her. I get that it might be complicated for both of them, but he didn't even seem happy to see her.

And why is it all on June to bring Hannah back? Luke escaped years ago yet June is the one risking her life time and again to rescue Hannah and apologizing to Luke for not having her. Her mom guilt is so relatable yet it makes me really angry at Luke.

I guess I'm one of the few who is sympathetic to Luke. My take is that he was solicitous, leading the way and checking in to see that she was following and okay, but completely overwhelmed. Your traumatized wife returns years later, and you've been caring for the child she had with a man she's told you she also loves. Just a tad overwhelming! Yes, he was passive pre-Gilead but I don't know what anyone expected of him once he was stuck in Canada. He was loyal, waited, cared for Nichole, confronted Waterford when he had the chance. Grappling with the knowledge his wife chose to stay in Gilead when she could have escaped to be with him and, again, knowing she was involved with someone else. What else would you have him do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm glad June got on the boat because if she was going to stay in Gilead again, I think I would've been done with this show.

I continue to be underwhelmed by Luke. In fact, the scene where they reunited was just off until June apologized for not having Hannah. That part was sad. But Luke just stood there. He didn't even say anything to her. And then when they were walking, he was 4 steps ahead of her. I get that it might be complicated for both of them, but he didn't even seem happy to see her.

And why is it all on June to bring Hannah back? Luke escaped years ago yet June is the one risking her life time and again to rescue Hannah and apologizing to Luke for not having her. Her mom guilt is so relatable yet it makes me really angry at Luke.

I guess I'm one of the few who is sympathetic to Luke. My take is that he was solicitous, leading the way and checking in to see that she was following and okay, but completely overwhelmed. Your traumatized wife returns years later, and you've been caring for the child she had with a man she's told you she also loves. Just a tad overwhelming! Yes, he was passive pre-Gilead but I don't know what anyone expected of him once he was stuck in Canada. He was loyal, waited, cared for Nichole, confronted Waterford when he had the chance. Grappling with the knowledge his wife chose to stay in Gilead when she could have escaped to be with him and, again, knowing she was involved with someone else. What else would you have him do?

Agree. And despite the fact that June somehow turned into a badass tactician/has survived requires some suspension of disbelief on our part. What exactly was Luke going to do? Storm INTO Gilead and...get killed? And I also think back to episode 2 of this season - when the US official tells Luke they may never know what happens to June. We have the benefit of knowing what's happening in both Gilead and Canada, but the characters are effectively blind in that respect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Damn I need to catch up. DH and I enjoyed season 1 but got behind and never started season 2. Then 2020 happened and it just seemed too depressing. I might go back and start season 2!

Now that we have Dems running both WH and Congress, it's less scary! Good time to catch up. (I had to take a break for a couple of years from Man in the High Castle after Trump was elected.)

Way to ruin a harmless, fun thread. Stop being so one-dimensional.

Sorry you’re sad you can’t wear your maga hat anymore. Fascism isn’t a good look spring 21

+1

[Anonymous]

I saw speculation on the interwebs that if Serena is sent back to Gilead she could become a handmaid, now that she has “sinned” and is proven fertile. I thought of that when June says “I want them to hurt like we hurt” in the preview for the next episode. Maybe she wants them shipped back to Gilead for harsher punishment than Canada will dole out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm glad June got on the boat because if she was going to stay in Gilead again, I think I would've been done with this show.

I continue to be underwhelmed by Luke. In fact, the scene where they reunited was just off until June apologized for not having Hannah. That part was sad. But Luke just stood there. He didn't even say anything to her. And then when they were walking, he was 4 steps ahead of her. I get that it might be complicated for both of them, but he didn't even seem happy to see her.

And why is it all on June to bring Hannah back? Luke escaped years ago yet June is the one risking her life time and again to rescue Hannah and apologizing to Luke for not having her. Her mom guilt is so relatable yet it makes me really angry at Luke.

That struck me as really, really odd. I couldn't figure out what to make of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I saw speculation on the interwebs that if Serena is sent back to Gilead she could become a handmaid, now that she has “sinned” and is proven fertile. I thought of that when June says “I want them to hurt like we hurt” in the preview for the next episode. Maybe she wants them shipped back to Gilead for harsher punishment than Canada will dole out.

They will probably do a people exchange.