The subtle micro aggressions of islamophobia

[Muslima]

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

OMG, this again!!!!! I have not read/followed this discussion and just clicked on the last page to see this ridiculous statement. Muslim women do not want western feminism. I appreciate your concerns that we are 2nd class citizens, but do know that those concerns are only existent in your mind. As a Muslim woman living a muslim life, believing in my faith 100%, I have never felt I was a second class citizen, I have never felt men were worth more than me. Why on earth are you blatantly making these ridiculous statements? Whenever women have been treated as less than, whenever women have gotten less than they deserved, it has never been because of Islam, to the contrary, it has always been because of a lack of Islam. I do not know of any institution, any religion, any organization that treats women, loves women, adore women, give a higher status to women than Islam. I feel blessed, lucky, happy to be a Muslim woman every single day of my life alhamdulillah( praised be to God) for Islam.

Your problem is the same as anyone else - inability to imagine that someone may have experiences, feelings and convictions other than your own. You don't speak for all Muslim women. You are just one person in a sea of them. Islam is not an institution or an organization, and when it tried to become one, less than enviable results ensued, much like any other religion that forgot its place.

I guess you failed to read the last paragraph of my response where I stated that sexism does exist in Muslim countries, yes there are Muslim women that are being abused, mistreated, being cheated on their rights every single day, just like there are non-muslim women being abused and killed every single day in America. What I'm not going to accept is your simplification that these realities, events are the results of Islam. Correlation doesn't imply causation

[Anonymous]

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

OMG, this again!!!!! I have not read/followed this discussion and just clicked on the last page to see this ridiculous statement. Muslim women do not want western feminism. I appreciate your concerns that we are 2nd class citizens, but do know that those concerns are only existent in your mind. As a Muslim woman living a muslim life, believing in my faith 100%, I have never felt I was a second class citizen, I have never felt men were worth more than me. Why on earth are you blatantly making these ridiculous statements? Whenever women have been treated as less than, whenever women have gotten less than they deserved, it has never been because of Islam, to the contrary, it has always been because of a lack of Islam. I do not know of any institution, any religion, any organization that treats women, loves women, adore women, give a higher status to women than Islam. I feel blessed, lucky, happy to be a Muslim woman every single day of my life alhamdulillah( praised be to God) for Islam.

Your problem is the same as anyone else - inability to imagine that someone may have experiences, feelings and convictions other than your own. You don't speak for all Muslim women. You are just one person in a sea of them. Islam is not an institution or an organization, and when it tried to become one, less than enviable results ensued, much like any other religion that forgot its place.

I guess you failed to read the last paragraph of my response where I stated that sexism does exist in Muslim countries, yes there are Muslim women that are being abused, mistreated, being cheated on their rights every single day, just like there are non-muslim women being abused and killed every single day in America. What I'm not going to accept is your simplification that these realities, events are the results of Islam. Correlation doesn't imply causation

Of course it doesn't. What I take objection to is your statement that every single Muslim woman feels exactly the way you do. There are Muslim women out there that are less than happy about what their birth religion has provided for them - not human practice or country-based sexist, but actual letter of law. You imply they don't exist. That's not true. I am not begrudging you your love and devotion to Islam. If you are happy and content, good for you. I am simply pointing out that you have no grounds to state that all Muslim women feel the way you do.

[Muslima]

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

OMG, this again!!!!! I have not read/followed this discussion and just clicked on the last page to see this ridiculous statement. Muslim women do not want western feminism. I appreciate your concerns that we are 2nd class citizens, but do know that those concerns are only existent in your mind. As a Muslim woman living a muslim life, believing in my faith 100%, I have never felt I was a second class citizen, I have never felt men were worth more than me. Why on earth are you blatantly making these ridiculous statements? Whenever women have been treated as less than, whenever women have gotten less than they deserved, it has never been because of Islam, to the contrary, it has always been because of a lack of Islam. I do not know of any institution, any religion, any organization that treats women, loves women, adore women, give a higher status to women than Islam. I feel blessed, lucky, happy to be a Muslim woman every single day of my life alhamdulillah( praised be to God) for Islam.

Your problem is the same as anyone else - inability to imagine that someone may have experiences, feelings and convictions other than your own. You don't speak for all Muslim women. You are just one person in a sea of them. Islam is not an institution or an organization, and when it tried to become one, less than enviable results ensued, much like any other religion that forgot its place.

I guess you failed to read the last paragraph of my response where I stated that sexism does exist in Muslim countries, yes there are Muslim women that are being abused, mistreated, being cheated on their rights every single day, just like there are non-muslim women being abused and killed every single day in America. What I'm not going to accept is your simplification that these realities, events are the results of Islam. Correlation doesn't imply causation

Of course it doesn't. What I take objection to is your statement that every single Muslim woman feels exactly the way you do. There are Muslim women out there that are less than happy about what their birth religion has provided for them - not human practice or country-based sexist, but actual letter of law. You imply they don't exist. That's not true. I am not begrudging you your love and devotion to Islam. If you are happy and content, good for you. I am simply pointing out that you have no grounds to state that all Muslim women feel the way you do.

Circle the part where I wrote every single woman feels the way I do???

[Anonymous]

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

OMG, this again!!!!! I have not read/followed this discussion and just clicked on the last page to see this ridiculous statement. Muslim women do not want western feminism. I appreciate your concerns that we are 2nd class citizens, but do know that those concerns are only existent in your mind. As a Muslim woman living a muslim life, believing in my faith 100%, I have never felt I was a second class citizen, I have never felt men were worth more than me. Why on earth are you blatantly making these ridiculous statements? Whenever women have been treated as less than, whenever women have gotten less than they deserved, it has never been because of Islam, to the contrary, it has always been because of a lack of Islam. I do not know of any institution, any religion, any organization that treats women, loves women, adore women, give a higher status to women than Islam. I feel blessed, lucky, happy to be a Muslim woman every single day of my life alhamdulillah( praised be to God) for Islam.

Your problem is the same as anyone else - inability to imagine that someone may have experiences, feelings and convictions other than your own. You don't speak for all Muslim women. You are just one person in a sea of them. Islam is not an institution or an organization, and when it tried to become one, less than enviable results ensued, much like any other religion that forgot its place.

I guess you failed to read the last paragraph of my response where I stated that sexism does exist in Muslim countries, yes there are Muslim women that are being abused, mistreated, being cheated on their rights every single day, just like there are non-muslim women being abused and killed every single day in America. What I'm not going to accept is your simplification that these realities, events are the results of Islam. Correlation doesn't imply causation

Of course it doesn't. What I take objection to is your statement that every single Muslim woman feels exactly the way you do. There are Muslim women out there that are less than happy about what their birth religion has provided for them - not human practice or country-based sexist, but actual letter of law. You imply they don't exist. That's not true. I am not begrudging you your love and devotion to Islam. If you are happy and content, good for you. I am simply pointing out that you have no grounds to state that all Muslim women feel the way you do.

Circle the part where I wrote every single woman feels the way I do???

Every time you start a sentence with "Muslim women."

If you didn't mean that and reported only your own experiences without claiming they are generic to all Muslim women, then I am wrong and I apologize.

[Muslima]

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

OMG, this again!!!!! I have not read/followed this discussion and just clicked on the last page to see this ridiculous statement. Muslim women do not want western feminism. I appreciate your concerns that we are 2nd class citizens, but do know that those concerns are only existent in your mind. As a Muslim woman living a muslim life, believing in my faith 100%, I have never felt I was a second class citizen, I have never felt men were worth more than me. Why on earth are you blatantly making these ridiculous statements? Whenever women have been treated as less than, whenever women have gotten less than they deserved, it has never been because of Islam, to the contrary, it has always been because of a lack of Islam. I do not know of any institution, any religion, any organization that treats women, loves women, adore women, give a higher status to women than Islam. I feel blessed, lucky, happy to be a Muslim woman every single day of my life alhamdulillah( praised be to God) for Islam.

Your problem is the same as anyone else - inability to imagine that someone may have experiences, feelings and convictions other than your own. You don't speak for all Muslim women. You are just one person in a sea of them. Islam is not an institution or an organization, and when it tried to become one, less than enviable results ensued, much like any other religion that forgot its place.

I guess you failed to read the last paragraph of my response where I stated that sexism does exist in Muslim countries, yes there are Muslim women that are being abused, mistreated, being cheated on their rights every single day, just like there are non-muslim women being abused and killed every single day in America. What I'm not going to accept is your simplification that these realities, events are the results of Islam. Correlation doesn't imply causation

Of course it doesn't. What I take objection to is your statement that every single Muslim woman feels exactly the way you do. There are Muslim women out there that are less than happy about what their birth religion has provided for them - not human practice or country-based sexist, but actual letter of law. You imply they don't exist. That's not true. I am not begrudging you your love and devotion to Islam. If you are happy and content, good for you. I am simply pointing out that you have no grounds to state that all Muslim women feel the way you do.

Circle the part where I wrote every single woman feels the way I do???

Every time you start a sentence with "Muslim women."

If you didn't mean that and reported only your own experiences without claiming they are generic to all Muslim women, then I am wrong and I apologize.

When I shared my experiences, I said "I, as a Muslim woman". Yes, I've used the term Muslim women in general in my post sometimes because I feel like I Have met, lived with enough muslim women to know what/how they feel about some issues. Does it mean that this will be true for all millions of Muslim women? Of course not! We are a rainbow of sects, practices, values, beliefs... Under the umbrella of our general commonalities, we differ widely. I'm currently reading "I speak for myself' American women on being Muslim. Picked it up from the library, if you're in Va, it's available at the fairfax county libraries. It's an interesting read, and glimpse into the commonalities, differences and sisterhood that bond Muslim women of all walks of life who just happen to share the thread of Islam. I would recommend it to anyone who wants to know more about muslim women. It' s 40 short essays written by different Muslim women about what their identities mean to them, from their own perspectives

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
May I ask -- do you have Aspergers? You seem entirely disconnected to your audience, the vast majority of whom can not understand words like dawah wallah and, now, zabiha. Yet you continue to use such words. If you have Aspergers, forgive me, as it would be an understandable justification for your assumption that the majority of your audience understands your thinking as well as the foreign words you are choosing to use. If you do not have Aspergers, then think about this: There may be thousands of people viewing your posts and usage of foreign words. Out of the thousands, you draw attention to the two posters who said they correctly understand the terms you used. One was you. The other was a poster of British background who claimed dawah wallah is a word of British origin or background also. It's not at all. It is a word distinctly used by only Indians or Pakistani people.

Laughing to myself. How hard you try to find reasons for a perfectly reasonable set of beliefs. Look at you - who only uses English words - yet is universally rejected by the DCUM audience. I'd say I connect to them just fine.

Anonymous wrote:
It doesn't bother me in the least that I do not know your identity. However, I can most certainly draw a visual of your possible identity: a severely disgruntled, angry, Pakistani islamophobe bent on lying and twisting historical facts in a one person campaign to vilify Islam.

You'll never know what I look like.

Anonymous wrote:
In the same way as you said the jahiliyah period never occurred and was a lie created by Muslims, and it was shown by written testimony of historians and religious scholars to be a complete lie, the articles which I hope will be one day published about your islamophobia will be read by many more people than DCUM's readership.

More lies and distortions.

Anonymous wrote:
I am excited that we now have three writers across the country who have expressed an interest in investigating possible islamophobia organizations and writing an article using your posts.

I'm excited you'll have three opportunities to fall on your face.

Anonymous wrote:
I have not even begun to call all the contacts other Imams have provided of nonMuslim writers at major publications. Would I like to know your identity? Not really. It doesn't serve my purpose.

Actually you would, but you never will.

Anonymous wrote:
Finding out what organization you belong to does, however. Having major publications write about islamophobia does also serve my purpose.

You won't find out what organizations I belong to, because they don't exist. Major publications? Nah, that won't happen, and if it does, so what? There's a new issue coming out every day. Whatever you can write and place - in no doubt, third-rate outlets - will be utterly forgettable.

Anonymous wrote:
Despite your anonymity, it will still embarrass you privately. Regardless of what you may believe, I am sorry about that because it isn't my goal to embarrass anyone. My goal is to stop your islamophobic lies and propagating hate toward my religion.

It won't embarrass me - it will do nothing to me whatsoever. In your goal, you will fail.

The only person on DCUM who knows of one media outlet is Jeff himself, because I had to give him a heads up that these posts may be used and request his permission. The writer may also contact him. He knows which media outlet it is and, I assure you, it is not third rate. I will not say which it is, but would I lie knowing Jeff can refute me here? It has a high readership and the writer will be working with the information an Imam has provided.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP may be educated but she lacks critical thinking skills.

She routinely asks us to accept whatever her favorite scholars say, even when her snippets of their works contain no supporting evidence.

She routinely insists that you can't understand the Quran unless one knows Arabic, but she herself appears to not actually be able to read the Arabic herself as she been caught misconstruing Quranic passages multiple times--no compulsion in Islam instead of religion; saying the Quran censures a father for burying a female baby when it doesn't.

She routinely exhorts everyone to talk to Islamic scholars as those seem to be the sole source of all her knowledge and belief; there is no sign that she has ever attempted to deconstruct the Quran and understand it herself. Then, laughably, she will write many lines about the background of scholars she regurgitates and their elevated association with one institution or another to back up why we should accept whatever they say.

When we don't accept, she flings around names like Islamaphobe or personal insults and threatens to out the shadowy anti-Islamic organiztion we must belong to.

Thanks PPs for keeping up the heat on her sophistry and providing hours of amusement.

No matter! If Jeff is good enough to keep these threads open, I will publish the links to the published articles. I think when people read the articles, complete with quotes from the historians and scholars, it will be enough. Who would reasonable minded people believe? A disgruntled, islamophobic Pakistani or historians and scholars that teach at Harvard, Oxford, or Cambridge? At that point, I will ask Jeff to shut this thread down to prevent you from continuing on with your islamophobic campaign. Looking forward...

Who would reasonable-minded people believe? Clearly not a wannabe dawwah-wallah who makes up stories about people based on nothing but weird commitment to an idea that a common word known to every single person in London, every single person who reads Salman Rushdie and probably a million others, is somehow a clear-cut indication of ethnic background. The fact that you failed to find even one sympathetic listener on DCUM, methinks, is an excellent predictor of how much credibility your future efforts will gain.

I think the reality is that your combative posts turn people off and they think the only way to get you to stop talking is for them to stop talking to you. The fact that at least three writers now are interested in investigating your posts and the subject of islamophobia says there is a sympathetic audience out there, or at least that the subject of islamophobia is important enough to address.

[Anonymous]

Jeff, three writers, now one, CAIR, imams - you're making me yawn with all the tales you are spinning.

No one needs permission to quote a post on a public forum. They are quotable by definition. Jeff doesn't own copyright over them so it's not up to him to give permission. But since you seem to be concerned with legalities, here it is - I give you blanket permission to quote anything I ever wrote. Print it out, frame it and hang it in your house for all I care.

[Anonymous]

Y'all keep talking about "subtle micro-agressions." In the meantime, your fellow Muslims cut the head off another aid worker and released a video this morning.

When Muslims stop blatant aggression and violence against non-Muslims, maybe we can talk about "subtle micro-aggressions."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I think the reality is that your combative posts turn people off and they think the only way to get you to stop talking is for them to stop talking to you. The fact that at least three writers now are interested in investigating your posts and the subject of islamophobia says there is a sympathetic audience out there, or at least that the subject of islamophobia is important enough to address.

That's your theory. In actuality, a number of people supported what I wrote, and not a single one supported you. My theory is that my posts make sense and yours don't.

Investigate away. Who cares?

Sure, I'm combative - at least I never called anyone an STD-infested granny or an evangelical crusader. I got that much going on for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Y'all keep talking about "subtle micro-agressions." In the meantime, your fellow Muslims cut the head off another aid worker and released a video this morning.

When Muslims stop blatant aggression and violence against non-Muslims, maybe we can talk about "subtle micro-aggressions."

Well you know, in all fairness, she has nothing to do with this, so I don't see the need to bring it up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think the reality is that your combative posts turn people off and they think the only way to get you to stop talking is for them to stop talking to you. The fact that at least three writers now are interested in investigating your posts and the subject of islamophobia says there is a sympathetic audience out there, or at least that the subject of islamophobia is important enough to address.

That's your theory. In actuality, a number of people supported what I wrote, and not a single one supported you. My theory is that my posts make sense and yours don't.

Investigate away. Who cares?

Sure, I'm combative - at least I never called anyone an STD-infested granny or an evangelical crusader. I got that much going on for me.

You're talking about readers like me. I'm appreciative of the heavy lifting you've done. 1st PP has not convinced me that inquality=equality, or that disagreeing with this makes one an islamophobe.

As for all her threats - that legions of pulitzer-prize winning investigative journalists are waiting in the wings to write about this - phhht! There's nothing here to write about. These threats are her latest attempt to bully people, since the STC-infested granny thing didn't work out so well for her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Y'all keep talking about "subtle micro-agressions." In the meantime, your fellow Muslims cut the head off another aid worker and released a video this morning.

When Muslims stop blatant aggression and violence against non-Muslims, maybe we can talk about "subtle micro-aggressions."

Well you know, in all fairness, she has nothing to do with this, so I don't see the need to bring it up.

+1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jeff, three writers, now one, CAIR, imams - you're making me yawn with all the tales you are spinning.

No one needs permission to quote a post on a public forum. They are quotable by definition. Jeff doesn't own copyright over them so it's not up to him to give permission. But since you seem to be concerned with legalities, here it is - I give you blanket permission to quote anything I ever wrote. Print it out, frame it and hang it in your house for all I care.

OP's story sounds like "I contacted 3 writers I know" and, if she actually did contact anyone, maybe they were polite to her because she told them horror stories about these threads and/or they are polite people. Undoubtedly it will be different matter if any of them reads these threads and realizes there's no "there" there.

Or, this whole thing is just a new form of her bullying. Given that her first impulse, to call us STD-ridden gap-toothed Pakistani grannies who can't cook because they're on the Crusades, backfired so badly.

[Anonymous]

Anywhere in this world where there is man made trouble it's because of muslims