AAP Center Elimination Rumors

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Jealous GenEd parents never give up. First it was changing the name to AAP from G&T now this.

LOL!! I have a child in AAP and even I know it is not a Gifted & Talented program. If it was, the vast majority of kids would not qualify.

Anyway, it's my understanding that G&T was an entirely different program than AAP.

+1
Oh, it absolutely was. GT was a very tiny and extremely selective program for the few gifted kids who truly needed a separate learning environment. They changed the name to AAP when they opened it up and lowered the admissions standards. Weird that the PP thinks it was parents who made them change the name, but typical.

+1
When it was GT, an elementary school with "prestige" was likely to send 7 or 8 kids of a grade level to a center--at most. Now the same elementary school has over 50 (likely more) in an AAP center.
And, there were certainly no "twice exceptional" kids included.

Have you ever been around actual GT kids? It would be mostly the "2e" kids - exceptionally bright but with asynchronous social development.

2E means gifted plus learning disability, not just quirky kid with poor social skills.

ADHD and Autism are counted in 2e - there's a huge overlap between both and GT students.

And anxiety, which is rampant in GT kids. Any 504 or IEP counts as 2E, even if it's a physical disability.

Wonder how much anxiety they would have in a GenEd class if family didn't put such pressure on them?

100% this

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree that there is not that much difference between Gen Ed and AAP other than math, I type that a lot. We deferred AAP in favor of LI. Our school had a separate Advanced Math class that started in 5th grade that was great. DS joined the AAP program in MS and had no problem walking into the classes and getting As. Math gives you the one grade jump and then the opportunity for a two grade jump if you take Algebra 1H in 7th grade. I was worried that DS might struggle in the other classes since he was not in a AAP class but nope. AAP just isn't that deep.

Most people want AAP for the guarentee of the Advanced Math, it removes the possibility of your kid being dropped from the Advanced Math group.

I think Centers for the AAP kids out of Title 1 schools make sense. There are fewer kids who are advanced and pooling that population to give that group of kids a legit cohort makes sense.

We do have friends at our LI program that have commented that the Center made a world of difference for their LIV kids in Gen Ed because the Gen Ed classes were smaller and there was a smaller cohort of kids who were ahead in the course material. The LI classes were maxed and half of the LI kids were in Advanced Math. There were 5 kids in Advanced Math in the Gen Ed grouping. Being able to move to the Center made a huge difference for the kids ahead in the Gen Ed program. We would have had a strong LLIV class if you combined the LI and Gen Ed kids in the school but that is not how the school worked.

I don't think Centers are needed at most other schools. Any school that has more than 10 kids selected for AAP has enough kids to make a LLIV class. You can add in the kids in LIII and the Advanced Math kids and fill a class pretty easily. If being in the advanced group is that important to parents, they can decide if they are ok with the kid being in the same class for 4 years.

I don't know how much the bus savings would be, but I am guessing it is enough to pay for some of the monitors and aids that are beign cut because of the budget shortfall. Dropping MS Centers is an easy call to make, you should have enough AAP kids feeding into each of the MS that they can run their own AAP classes. Again, the savings on bus runs might not be massive but I would bet it is a few monitor and aid positions. We need those positions in the ES to give Teachers the time to plan and grade.

Let's get real, please. It's not even about advanced math, it's about people wanting their children in a "superior" cohort of kids. That's it. Nobody wants to admit it, but for 90% of AAP parents (the 90% whose children aren't children), they don't care about the academics, they care about their children's peers. For people like me at a high SES school, it really doesn't matter. I would love for my child to get advanced math, but it's fine, she'll take math honors in 7th and Algebra honors in 8th grade, and end up in all AP classes in high school. For families like mine in schools like ours, AAP really isn't a big deal at all. For my friend whose child is at a Title I school, IT MATTERS. She wants her kid out of that school and at the AAP Center and I absolutely DO NOT BLAME HER.

[Anonymous]

As someone who works in an FCPS middle school...the last PP is spot on. AAP classes are coveted because the kids in them mostly have more support and supervision at home, less outrageous and disruptive behavior, and more of a clue how to be students. The advanced content is minimal but nice. The difference of behavior/attitude of kids in the classes - not intelligence but behavior - is sadly significant.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Centers are needed in schools where there aren’t enough level 4 kids to make a whole class.

Ok. But there are schools that have a large enough cohort. In my opinion, the centers should only be allowed if the cohort is too small. Why should we bus kids to a center when there is a large enough cohort with a designated class. I know our center pulls from two schools. Both of these schools including my own, has a designated AAP class (not cluster model) and routinely has enough kids (12-17 kids)

It's crazy that you are anti busing AAP kids but are just fine with a 1:12 teacher to student ratio only for AAP. Doubtful that general ed classes have that ratio.

Wow. No, mommy, principals place other smart students into the Level IV class to make sure it is a similar size to the other classrooms. Most of these kids would have gotten into AAP if they were in a Title I or lower SES school anyway, so it works out. Your little baby is not "gifted" as much as you want to think s/he is. Principal placed kids do just as well if not better than the kids who got into AAP because their 2nd grade teacher liked them.

Principal placed kids get there because parents suck up to them.
Second grade teachers of the student are not on the selection committee for full time AAP.
Principal placing kids who did not make the cut into classrooms are part of the reason people prefer centers. The peer group has all been selected by a neutral centralized committee rather than who sucks up to the principal.

AAP is an advanced program. It must be hard for you to accept that even with a lower standard than gifted your kid still didn't make the cut. It's not the end of the world.

You're absolutely right, it's not the end of the world, yet here you are getting suuuuper defensive and freaking out and insulting people that you 100% know are telling the truth but oh boy, you just can't handle the fact that your child isn't as precious as you think s/he is. Trust me, my kids are going to end up in the exact same AP classes as yours in high school and will probably blow them out of the water.

You were the first to bring up kids saying my "little baby isnt gifted as I think he is." Well it's a good thing there are tests that independently confirmed giftedness for them. No sucking up needed.

It's very weird that you are comparing your kids future academic success to that of strangers. You sound very insecure about needing that annual principal placement for your future academic rockstar.

Yeah some people are really bothered by their kids not being selected for AAP. I enjoy listening to them complain and denigrate others kids.

If they stood back and took a second to breathe, they would understand that the kids are really where they need to be and should be happy the system allows this much flexibility for everyone’s learning needs.

Where is the flexibility for the remedial children? Where are their centers? Why do they have to be lumped in with all of the normal children while your special snowflake gets advanced math and extra special worksheets in AAP?

Blame the "push in" remedial parents for that. AAP parents have achieved what you want for your kids, and rather than do something to help your own all you do is insult the ones who succeeded. Try advocating to fix your problem instead of being jealous of others who have addressed theirs.

+1 it's the "push in" brigade and ESOL. Every time this is discussed we hear about studies saying it's best to "push in" for these types of learners but there is no discussion on how it impacts other average general education students. This is why people do anything to get their kids out of those classrooms and into AAP. They should be spending time trying to get a separate general education classroom instead of trying to ruin the AAP.

DP. Unfortunately, anytime someone complains about this and insists that remedial/SPED/ESOL kids be taught separately from the bright GE students, they're called all sorts of horrible names. Apparently, Gen Ed is just supposed to suck it up and accept that kids of much lower abilities are "mainstreamed," bright Gen Ed kids be damned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That's not very nice. I'm an AAP teacher and my kids went through the program at a different school. It absolutely is like a Venn Diagram, with most kids in the middle - they would do fine in either GE or AAP.

+100

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I agree that there is not that much difference between Gen Ed and AAP other than math, I type that a lot. We deferred AAP in favor of LI. Our school had a separate Advanced Math class that started in 5th grade that was great. DS joined the AAP program in MS and had no problem walking into the classes and getting As. Math gives you the one grade jump and then the opportunity for a two grade jump if you take Algebra 1H in 7th grade. I was worried that DS might struggle in the other classes since he was not in a AAP class but nope. AAP just isn't that deep.

Most people want AAP for the guarentee of the Advanced Math, it removes the possibility of your kid being dropped from the Advanced Math group.

I think Centers for the AAP kids out of Title 1 schools make sense. There are fewer kids who are advanced and pooling that population to give that group of kids a legit cohort makes sense.

We do have friends at our LI program that have commented that the Center made a world of difference for their LIV kids in Gen Ed because the Gen Ed classes were smaller and there was a smaller cohort of kids who were ahead in the course material. The LI classes were maxed and half of the LI kids were in Advanced Math. There were 5 kids in Advanced Math in the Gen Ed grouping. Being able to move to the Center made a huge difference for the kids ahead in the Gen Ed program. We would have had a strong LLIV class if you combined the LI and Gen Ed kids in the school but that is not how the school worked.

I don't think Centers are needed at most other schools. Any school that has more than 10 kids selected for AAP has enough kids to make a LLIV class. You can add in the kids in LIII and the Advanced Math kids and fill a class pretty easily. If being in the advanced group is that important to parents, they can decide if they are ok with the kid being in the same class for 4 years.

I don't know how much the bus savings would be, but I am guessing it is enough to pay for some of the monitors and aids that are beign cut because of the budget shortfall. Dropping MS Centers is an easy call to make, you should have enough AAP kids feeding into each of the MS that they can run their own AAP classes. Again, the savings on bus runs might not be massive but I would bet it is a few monitor and aid positions. We need those positions in the ES to give Teachers the time to plan and grade.

Let's get real, please. It's not even about advanced math, it's about people wanting their children in a "superior" cohort of kids. That's it. Nobody wants to admit it, but for 90% of AAP parents (the 90% whose children aren't children), they don't care about the academics, they care about their children's peers. For people like me at a high SES school, it really doesn't matter. I would love for my child to get advanced math, but it's fine, she'll take math honors in 7th and Algebra honors in 8th grade, and end up in all AP classes in high school. For families like mine in schools like ours, AAP really isn't a big deal at all. For my friend whose child is at a Title I school, IT MATTERS. She wants her kid out of that school and at the AAP Center and I absolutely DO NOT BLAME HER.

Just noticed my typo "the 90% whose children aren't gifted" is what that should say, LOL! Obviously all of your children are children. They're just not gifted children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that there is not that much difference between Gen Ed and AAP other than math, I type that a lot. We deferred AAP in favor of LI. Our school had a separate Advanced Math class that started in 5th grade that was great. DS joined the AAP program in MS and had no problem walking into the classes and getting As. Math gives you the one grade jump and then the opportunity for a two grade jump if you take Algebra 1H in 7th grade. I was worried that DS might struggle in the other classes since he was not in a AAP class but nope. AAP just isn't that deep.

Most people want AAP for the guarentee of the Advanced Math, it removes the possibility of your kid being dropped from the Advanced Math group.

I think Centers for the AAP kids out of Title 1 schools make sense. There are fewer kids who are advanced and pooling that population to give that group of kids a legit cohort makes sense.

We do have friends at our LI program that have commented that the Center made a world of difference for their LIV kids in Gen Ed because the Gen Ed classes were smaller and there was a smaller cohort of kids who were ahead in the course material. The LI classes were maxed and half of the LI kids were in Advanced Math. There were 5 kids in Advanced Math in the Gen Ed grouping. Being able to move to the Center made a huge difference for the kids ahead in the Gen Ed program. We would have had a strong LLIV class if you combined the LI and Gen Ed kids in the school but that is not how the school worked.

I don't think Centers are needed at most other schools. Any school that has more than 10 kids selected for AAP has enough kids to make a LLIV class. You can add in the kids in LIII and the Advanced Math kids and fill a class pretty easily. If being in the advanced group is that important to parents, they can decide if they are ok with the kid being in the same class for 4 years.

I don't know how much the bus savings would be, but I am guessing it is enough to pay for some of the monitors and aids that are beign cut because of the budget shortfall. Dropping MS Centers is an easy call to make, you should have enough AAP kids feeding into each of the MS that they can run their own AAP classes. Again, the savings on bus runs might not be massive but I would bet it is a few monitor and aid positions. We need those positions in the ES to give Teachers the time to plan and grade.

Let's get real, please. It's not even about advanced math, it's about people wanting their children in a "superior" cohort of kids. That's it. Nobody wants to admit it, but for 90% of AAP parents (the 90% whose children aren't children), they don't care about the academics, they care about their children's peers. For people like me at a high SES school, it really doesn't matter. I would love for my child to get advanced math, but it's fine, she'll take math honors in 7th and Algebra honors in 8th grade, and end up in all AP classes in high school. For families like mine in schools like ours, AAP really isn't a big deal at all. For my friend whose child is at a Title I school, IT MATTERS. She wants her kid out of that school and at the AAP Center and I absolutely DO NOT BLAME HER.

Haha that's hilarious. My DD at a title 1 school chose to stay for local level 4. Two of the kids from her 2nd grade cohort, one of which cried all the time and another who would act out and get in trouble every day both went to the center school. Thinking going to a center school is going to solve any problems when in reality all it does is increase the amount of time it takes to get to and from school.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Centers are needed in schools where there aren’t enough level 4 kids to make a whole class.

Ok. But there are schools that have a large enough cohort. In my opinion, the centers should only be allowed if the cohort is too small. Why should we bus kids to a center when there is a large enough cohort with a designated class. I know our center pulls from two schools. Both of these schools including my own, has a designated AAP class (not cluster model) and routinely has enough kids (12-17 kids)

It's crazy that you are anti busing AAP kids but are just fine with a 1:12 teacher to student ratio only for AAP. Doubtful that general ed classes have that ratio.

Wow. No, mommy, principals place other smart students into the Level IV class to make sure it is a similar size to the other classrooms. Most of these kids would have gotten into AAP if they were in a Title I or lower SES school anyway, so it works out. Your little baby is not "gifted" as much as you want to think s/he is. Principal placed kids do just as well if not better than the kids who got into AAP because their 2nd grade teacher liked them.

Principal placed kids get there because parents suck up to them.
Second grade teachers of the student are not on the selection committee for full time AAP.
Principal placing kids who did not make the cut into classrooms are part of the reason people prefer centers. The peer group has all been selected by a neutral centralized committee rather than who sucks up to the principal.

AAP is an advanced program. It must be hard for you to accept that even with a lower standard than gifted your kid still didn't make the cut. It's not the end of the world.

You're absolutely right, it's not the end of the world, yet here you are getting suuuuper defensive and freaking out and insulting people that you 100% know are telling the truth but oh boy, you just can't handle the fact that your child isn't as precious as you think s/he is. Trust me, my kids are going to end up in the exact same AP classes as yours in high school and will probably blow them out of the water.

You were the first to bring up kids saying my "little baby isnt gifted as I think he is." Well it's a good thing there are tests that independently confirmed giftedness for them. No sucking up needed.

It's very weird that you are comparing your kids future academic success to that of strangers. You sound very insecure about needing that annual principal placement for your future academic rockstar.

Yeah some people are really bothered by their kids not being selected for AAP. I enjoy listening to them complain and denigrate others kids.

If they stood back and took a second to breathe, they would understand that the kids are really where they need to be and should be happy the system allows this much flexibility for everyone’s learning needs.

+1000

The parents who moan and groan are doing a greater disservice to their kids than anything else.

Um, you realize this is a parents' discussion board and no one is "moaning and groaning" to their own kids, right? This is a place to vent. I'm sure you come here and vent about issues that are important to you. And you and the PP you're agreeing with epitomize smug condescension in your erroneous claim that "the kids are really where they need to be and (we) should be happy the system allows this much flexibility for everyone's learning needs." Sorry, no. The "system" is a failure because it sees fit to label kids at the age of seven and lock them into two separate groups with ZERO flexibility. Applying every year isn't "flexible." You've wasted an entire year in the meantime.

Flexible groupings are actually flexible because kids can cycle into and out of the appropriate group - per subject - FOR THEM, at any time.

Actually, I do think plenty of parents are feeding these ideas of exclusion to their kids, filling their heads with ideas that the AAP kids are no longer their friends. It's toxic, and my experience is that it's more parent-driven than anything.

Your child's year isn't "wasted" unless you let it be while you wallow in your own hatred over children who have something your kids don't.

It's clear you have no idea whatsoever - or rather, refuse to acknowledge - what's really going on here. Many AAP kids become absolutely insufferable, starting as early as 2nd grade when they're first told they'll be in AAP the following year. They will often cut out their Gen Ed kids right then, though some wait until a little later to do so. The Gen Ed kids then come home devasted because Larla has told them they're "just not smart enough to be in AAP" with all the other Larlas. At that point, parents have to address the situation at home.

That you think it's the *parents* bringing all of this up to their kids makes you sound idiotic. I would have preferred my kids never experienced any of this ridiculous division, but that wasn't to be.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Jealous GenEd parents never give up. First it was changing the name to AAP from G&T now this.

LOL!! I have a child in AAP and even I know it is not a Gifted & Talented program. If it was, the vast majority of kids would not qualify.

Anyway, it's my understanding that G&T was an entirely different program than AAP.

+1
Oh, it absolutely was. GT was a very tiny and extremely selective program for the few gifted kids who truly needed a separate learning environment. They changed the name to AAP when they opened it up and lowered the admissions standards. Weird that the PP thinks it was parents who made them change the name, but typical.

+1
When it was GT, an elementary school with "prestige" was likely to send 7 or 8 kids of a grade level to a center--at most. Now the same elementary school has over 50 (likely more) in an AAP center.
And, there were certainly no "twice exceptional" kids included.

+2
Now what they have are two huge groups of mostly very similar kids. If AAP and GE was a Venn diagram, the overlap in the middle would take up most of the diagram. It's only the far edges on both ends that actually need special supports.

Sure, whatever you have to tell yourself to cope.

You're in denial.

+100
These parents want so desperately to have whatever perceived cache they think a center bestows on them/their kids that they refuse to admit just how similar these huge groups of kids are, for the most part. I agree with the poster who said perhaps centers are needed in Title I areas, but they are most definitely not needed in the majority of areas where there are tons of kids who leave their base school for a center. They need to end centers in those areas as they are redundant and inequitable.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Centers are needed in schools where there aren’t enough level 4 kids to make a whole class.

Ok. But there are schools that have a large enough cohort. In my opinion, the centers should only be allowed if the cohort is too small. Why should we bus kids to a center when there is a large enough cohort with a designated class. I know our center pulls from two schools. Both of these schools including my own, has a designated AAP class (not cluster model) and routinely has enough kids (12-17 kids)

It's crazy that you are anti busing AAP kids but are just fine with a 1:12 teacher to student ratio only for AAP. Doubtful that general ed classes have that ratio.

Wow. No, mommy, principals place other smart students into the Level IV class to make sure it is a similar size to the other classrooms. Most of these kids would have gotten into AAP if they were in a Title I or lower SES school anyway, so it works out. Your little baby is not "gifted" as much as you want to think s/he is. Principal placed kids do just as well if not better than the kids who got into AAP because their 2nd grade teacher liked them.

Principal placed kids get there because parents suck up to them.
Second grade teachers of the student are not on the selection committee for full time AAP.
Principal placing kids who did not make the cut into classrooms are part of the reason people prefer centers. The peer group has all been selected by a neutral centralized committee rather than who sucks up to the principal.

AAP is an advanced program. It must be hard for you to accept that even with a lower standard than gifted your kid still didn't make the cut. It's not the end of the world.

You're absolutely right, it's not the end of the world, yet here you are getting suuuuper defensive and freaking out and insulting people that you 100% know are telling the truth but oh boy, you just can't handle the fact that your child isn't as precious as you think s/he is. Trust me, my kids are going to end up in the exact same AP classes as yours in high school and will probably blow them out of the water.

You were the first to bring up kids saying my "little baby isnt gifted as I think he is." Well it's a good thing there are tests that independently confirmed giftedness for them. No sucking up needed.

It's very weird that you are comparing your kids future academic success to that of strangers. You sound very insecure about needing that annual principal placement for your future academic rockstar.

Yeah some people are really bothered by their kids not being selected for AAP. I enjoy listening to them complain and denigrate others kids.

If they stood back and took a second to breathe, they would understand that the kids are really where they need to be and should be happy the system allows this much flexibility for everyone’s learning needs.

Where is the flexibility for the remedial children? Where are their centers? Why do they have to be lumped in with all of the normal children while your special snowflake gets advanced math and extra special worksheets in AAP?

Blame the "push in" remedial parents for that. AAP parents have achieved what you want for your kids, and rather than do something to help your own all you do is insult the ones who succeeded. Try advocating to fix your problem instead of being jealous of others who have addressed theirs.

I love how you're taking full credit for your child being in AAP, thank you for admitting what we all already know. You prepped your child for the tests, you helped your child with their "work samples," and you chatted up the AART and classroom teacher. Everybody knows that only a small percentage of the kids in AAP are truly gifted.

Bingo.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Our base school is a center and I would fully support this! The kids who come from other schools are like outsiders, no connection to our neighborhood.

let me guess haycock...

No Lemon Road. The bussed in kids cause a lot of problems.

Seriously? They’re coming from Westgate and Shrevewood 🙄
What kind of “problems” do these kids pose?

If anything, I feel badly for the kids assigned to a center school that don’t qualify for AAP; truly an “us” vs “them” scenario.

Yes, it sucks to have a bright kid at a center but not in aap. Wish we had a choice. The kids see kids that they are smarter than getting to learn stuff that they don't get to learn and they don't understand why they don't get to. Man, and some of the aap families are jerks about how "gifted and talented" they are.

We specifically avoided looking at houses zoned to AAP Center schools for this reason - my kids were entering 2nd & 4th when we moved so I knew one was not going to be in AAP and I didn't want to subject her to what I knew from just being at an LLIV school was going to be so much cliquishness and pettiness from AAP girls.

DP. Unfortunately, our school became an AAP center only after we had moved to the neighborhood, so we had no choice but to stay. And yes, it was miserable.

A lot of this is presumed to be due to AAP but not necessarily. We are at a center school, my son is in AAP and at least between the athletic kids, it's a good mix of kids from AAP and gen ed. Now my kid had a best friend in the 2nd grade class, but moved on in third grade. I overheard the parent assuming it had to do with AAP snobbery, but really it was that that kid didn't participate in the soccer teams at recess! So they drifted apart due to different interests, not AAP status.

This is a one-off anecdote. In general, the kids who were friends before the Great AAP/GE Divide of 3rd Grade do not remain friends.

We've been in two very different elementary schools in FCPS and the "great divide" happened to my older child in the first school and younger child in the second school. Both LLIV schools. I get that mine is also an anecdote, but it seems common, unfortunately.

This point I was trying to make was that mom was SO sure it was "great divide" related as well and... it just wasn't.

Dp. Base school is a center school and the great divide definitely happened. Not everyone is that much of an ahole about it ..but it was definitely a noticable split, and a few kids and moms were bold enough to say the quiet part out loud, that my dc wasn't good enough to hang out with their dc since my kid was never going to be in the same classes with their kid. It was noticable in 3rd and 4th grade. By 5th and 6th the friend groups started to shift ( less mommy influence and more kid choice) and the divide started to become less noticeable.

I could have written this, word for word. Except in our case, the divide only continued through 5th and 6th grades. By middle school, it was as if those long-ago friends didn't even know each other at all.

What's so sad about all of this is that it's all completely avoidable. If there were flexible groupings per subject, all the kids needing advanced math/LA/etc. would go to one classroom for their instruction; same for all the core subjects. The kids wouldn't be segregated into two giant monoliths that never meet or mix. They would all be switching groups for each subject and no one would be labeled as exclusively this or that. But of course, that would never fly with the AAP parents, who enjoy the labeling.
DP

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Centers are needed in schools where there aren’t enough level 4 kids to make a whole class.

Ok. But there are schools that have a large enough cohort. In my opinion, the centers should only be allowed if the cohort is too small. Why should we bus kids to a center when there is a large enough cohort with a designated class. I know our center pulls from two schools. Both of these schools including my own, has a designated AAP class (not cluster model) and routinely has enough kids (12-17 kids)

It's crazy that you are anti busing AAP kids but are just fine with a 1:12 teacher to student ratio only for AAP. Doubtful that general ed classes have that ratio.

Wow. No, mommy, principals place other smart students into the Level IV class to make sure it is a similar size to the other classrooms. Most of these kids would have gotten into AAP if they were in a Title I or lower SES school anyway, so it works out. Your little baby is not "gifted" as much as you want to think s/he is. Principal placed kids do just as well if not better than the kids who got into AAP because their 2nd grade teacher liked them.

Principal placed kids get there because parents suck up to them.
Second grade teachers of the student are not on the selection committee for full time AAP.
Principal placing kids who did not make the cut into classrooms are part of the reason people prefer centers. The peer group has all been selected by a neutral centralized committee rather than who sucks up to the principal.

AAP is an advanced program. It must be hard for you to accept that even with a lower standard than gifted your kid still didn't make the cut. It's not the end of the world.

You're absolutely right, it's not the end of the world, yet here you are getting suuuuper defensive and freaking out and insulting people that you 100% know are telling the truth but oh boy, you just can't handle the fact that your child isn't as precious as you think s/he is. Trust me, my kids are going to end up in the exact same AP classes as yours in high school and will probably blow them out of the water.

You were the first to bring up kids saying my "little baby isnt gifted as I think he is." Well it's a good thing there are tests that independently confirmed giftedness for them. No sucking up needed.

It's very weird that you are comparing your kids future academic success to that of strangers. You sound very insecure about needing that annual principal placement for your future academic rockstar.

Yeah some people are really bothered by their kids not being selected for AAP. I enjoy listening to them complain and denigrate others kids.

If they stood back and took a second to breathe, they would understand that the kids are really where they need to be and should be happy the system allows this much flexibility for everyone’s learning needs.

Where is the flexibility for the remedial children? Where are their centers? Why do they have to be lumped in with all of the normal children while your special snowflake gets advanced math and extra special worksheets in AAP?

Are you serious? The elimination of leveled classrooms/tracking and the mainstreaming of remedial and special ed students was the result of parents of those students pushing for mainstreaming. Parents of advanced and on-level kids didn't do any of this to you - point your finger at your own counterparts from the last decades.

Currently, you could advocate for more tracking in every school - but I'd be ready from blowback from other parents who don't want to see their kid in the remedial class, even if it would be the best fit.

LOLing at you saying AAP parents didn't cause this. PLEASE. Parents are absolutely the reason there is a bloated AAP program full of normal children who belong in GenEd.

+1
I blame FCPS for allowing this system to get so bloated and out of control. What a joke it is now, compared to when they had a tiny and excellent GT program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Centers are needed in schools where there aren’t enough level 4 kids to make a whole class.

Ok. But there are schools that have a large enough cohort. In my opinion, the centers should only be allowed if the cohort is too small. Why should we bus kids to a center when there is a large enough cohort with a designated class. I know our center pulls from two schools. Both of these schools including my own, has a designated AAP class (not cluster model) and routinely has enough kids (12-17 kids)

It's crazy that you are anti busing AAP kids but are just fine with a 1:12 teacher to student ratio only for AAP. Doubtful that general ed classes have that ratio.

Wow. No, mommy, principals place other smart students into the Level IV class to make sure it is a similar size to the other classrooms. Most of these kids would have gotten into AAP if they were in a Title I or lower SES school anyway, so it works out. Your little baby is not "gifted" as much as you want to think s/he is. Principal placed kids do just as well if not better than the kids who got into AAP because their 2nd grade teacher liked them.

Principal placed kids get there because parents suck up to them.
Second grade teachers of the student are not on the selection committee for full time AAP.
Principal placing kids who did not make the cut into classrooms are part of the reason people prefer centers. The peer group has all been selected by a neutral centralized committee rather than who sucks up to the principal.

AAP is an advanced program. It must be hard for you to accept that even with a lower standard than gifted your kid still didn't make the cut. It's not the end of the world.

You're absolutely right, it's not the end of the world, yet here you are getting suuuuper defensive and freaking out and insulting people that you 100% know are telling the truth but oh boy, you just can't handle the fact that your child isn't as precious as you think s/he is. Trust me, my kids are going to end up in the exact same AP classes as yours in high school and will probably blow them out of the water.

You were the first to bring up kids saying my "little baby isnt gifted as I think he is." Well it's a good thing there are tests that independently confirmed giftedness for them. No sucking up needed.

It's very weird that you are comparing your kids future academic success to that of strangers. You sound very insecure about needing that annual principal placement for your future academic rockstar.

Yeah some people are really bothered by their kids not being selected for AAP. I enjoy listening to them complain and denigrate others kids.

If they stood back and took a second to breathe, they would understand that the kids are really where they need to be and should be happy the system allows this much flexibility for everyone’s learning needs.

Where is the flexibility for the remedial children? Where are their centers? Why do they have to be lumped in with all of the normal children while your special snowflake gets advanced math and extra special worksheets in AAP?

Blame the "push in" remedial parents for that. AAP parents have achieved what you want for your kids, and rather than do something to help your own all you do is insult the ones who succeeded. Try advocating to fix your problem instead of being jealous of others who have addressed theirs.

+1 it's the "push in" brigade and ESOL. Every time this is discussed we hear about studies saying it's best to "push in" for these types of learners but there is no discussion on how it impacts other average general education students. This is why people do anything to get their kids out of those classrooms and into AAP. They should be spending time trying to get a separate general education classroom instead of trying to ruin the AAP.

DP. Unfortunately, anytime someone complains about this and insists that remedial/SPED/ESOL kids be taught separately from the bright GE students, they're called all sorts of horrible names. Apparently, Gen Ed is just supposed to suck it up and accept that kids of much lower abilities are "mainstreamed," bright Gen Ed kids be damned.

No one cares about name calling at this point. It has gotten real old. General education parents should fight for their own classrooms. Of course Reid is more likely to dismantle AAP than separate ESOL and special education students but it's worth a try

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Centers are needed in schools where there aren’t enough level 4 kids to make a whole class.

Ok. But there are schools that have a large enough cohort. In my opinion, the centers should only be allowed if the cohort is too small. Why should we bus kids to a center when there is a large enough cohort with a designated class. I know our center pulls from two schools. Both of these schools including my own, has a designated AAP class (not cluster model) and routinely has enough kids (12-17 kids)

It's crazy that you are anti busing AAP kids but are just fine with a 1:12 teacher to student ratio only for AAP. Doubtful that general ed classes have that ratio.

Wow. No, mommy, principals place other smart students into the Level IV class to make sure it is a similar size to the other classrooms. Most of these kids would have gotten into AAP if they were in a Title I or lower SES school anyway, so it works out. Your little baby is not "gifted" as much as you want to think s/he is. Principal placed kids do just as well if not better than the kids who got into AAP because their 2nd grade teacher liked them.

Principal placed kids get there because parents suck up to them.
Second grade teachers of the student are not on the selection committee for full time AAP.
Principal placing kids who did not make the cut into classrooms are part of the reason people prefer centers. The peer group has all been selected by a neutral centralized committee rather than who sucks up to the principal.

AAP is an advanced program. It must be hard for you to accept that even with a lower standard than gifted your kid still didn't make the cut. It's not the end of the world.

You're absolutely right, it's not the end of the world, yet here you are getting suuuuper defensive and freaking out and insulting people that you 100% know are telling the truth but oh boy, you just can't handle the fact that your child isn't as precious as you think s/he is. Trust me, my kids are going to end up in the exact same AP classes as yours in high school and will probably blow them out of the water.

You were the first to bring up kids saying my "little baby isnt gifted as I think he is." Well it's a good thing there are tests that independently confirmed giftedness for them. No sucking up needed.

It's very weird that you are comparing your kids future academic success to that of strangers. You sound very insecure about needing that annual principal placement for your future academic rockstar.

Yeah some people are really bothered by their kids not being selected for AAP. I enjoy listening to them complain and denigrate others kids.

If they stood back and took a second to breathe, they would understand that the kids are really where they need to be and should be happy the system allows this much flexibility for everyone’s learning needs.

+1000

The parents who moan and groan are doing a greater disservice to their kids than anything else.

Um, you realize this is a parents' discussion board and no one is "moaning and groaning" to their own kids, right? This is a place to vent. I'm sure you come here and vent about issues that are important to you. And you and the PP you're agreeing with epitomize smug condescension in your erroneous claim that "the kids are really where they need to be and (we) should be happy the system allows this much flexibility for everyone's learning needs." Sorry, no. The "system" is a failure because it sees fit to label kids at the age of seven and lock them into two separate groups with ZERO flexibility. Applying every year isn't "flexible." You've wasted an entire year in the meantime.

Flexible groupings are actually flexible because kids can cycle into and out of the appropriate group - per subject - FOR THEM, at any time.

Actually, I do think plenty of parents are feeding these ideas of exclusion to their kids, filling their heads with ideas that the AAP kids are no longer their friends. It's toxic, and my experience is that it's more parent-driven than anything.

Your child's year isn't "wasted" unless you let it be while you wallow in your own hatred over children who have something your kids don't.

It's clear you have no idea whatsoever - or rather, refuse to acknowledge - what's really going on here. Many AAP kids become absolutely insufferable, starting as early as 2nd grade when they're first told they'll be in AAP the following year. They will often cut out their Gen Ed kids right then, though some wait until a little later to do so. The Gen Ed kids then come home devasted because Larla has told them they're "just not smart enough to be in AAP" with all the other Larlas. At that point, parents have to address the situation at home.

That you think it's the *parents* bringing all of this up to their kids makes you sound idiotic. I would have preferred my kids never experienced any of this ridiculous division, but that wasn't to be.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Centers are needed in schools where there aren’t enough level 4 kids to make a whole class.

Ok. But there are schools that have a large enough cohort. In my opinion, the centers should only be allowed if the cohort is too small. Why should we bus kids to a center when there is a large enough cohort with a designated class. I know our center pulls from two schools. Both of these schools including my own, has a designated AAP class (not cluster model) and routinely has enough kids (12-17 kids)

It's crazy that you are anti busing AAP kids but are just fine with a 1:12 teacher to student ratio only for AAP. Doubtful that general ed classes have that ratio.

Wow. No, mommy, principals place other smart students into the Level IV class to make sure it is a similar size to the other classrooms. Most of these kids would have gotten into AAP if they were in a Title I or lower SES school anyway, so it works out. Your little baby is not "gifted" as much as you want to think s/he is. Principal placed kids do just as well if not better than the kids who got into AAP because their 2nd grade teacher liked them.

Principal placed kids get there because parents suck up to them.
Second grade teachers of the student are not on the selection committee for full time AAP.
Principal placing kids who did not make the cut into classrooms are part of the reason people prefer centers. The peer group has all been selected by a neutral centralized committee rather than who sucks up to the principal.

AAP is an advanced program. It must be hard for you to accept that even with a lower standard than gifted your kid still didn't make the cut. It's not the end of the world.

You're absolutely right, it's not the end of the world, yet here you are getting suuuuper defensive and freaking out and insulting people that you 100% know are telling the truth but oh boy, you just can't handle the fact that your child isn't as precious as you think s/he is. Trust me, my kids are going to end up in the exact same AP classes as yours in high school and will probably blow them out of the water.

You were the first to bring up kids saying my "little baby isnt gifted as I think he is." Well it's a good thing there are tests that independently confirmed giftedness for them. No sucking up needed.

It's very weird that you are comparing your kids future academic success to that of strangers. You sound very insecure about needing that annual principal placement for your future academic rockstar.

Yeah some people are really bothered by their kids not being selected for AAP. I enjoy listening to them complain and denigrate others kids.

If they stood back and took a second to breathe, they would understand that the kids are really where they need to be and should be happy the system allows this much flexibility for everyone’s learning needs.

Where is the flexibility for the remedial children? Where are their centers? Why do they have to be lumped in with all of the normal children while your special snowflake gets advanced math and extra special worksheets in AAP?

Are you serious? The elimination of leveled classrooms/tracking and the mainstreaming of remedial and special ed students was the result of parents of those students pushing for mainstreaming. Parents of advanced and on-level kids didn't do any of this to you - point your finger at your own counterparts from the last decades.

Currently, you could advocate for more tracking in every school - but I'd be ready from blowback from other parents who don't want to see their kid in the remedial class, even if it would be the best fit.

LOLing at you saying AAP parents didn't cause this. PLEASE. Parents are absolutely the reason there is a bloated AAP program full of normal children who belong in GenEd.

+1
I blame FCPS for allowing this system to get so bloated and out of control. What a joke it is now, compared to when they had a tiny and excellent GT program.

So your kid didn't make it into AAP but you're arguing to reduce the number of other kids' access to AAP.
What do you get out of this? Your kid isn't getting in either way. Is it spite that drives this behavior?