AAP Center Elimination Rumors

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Our base school is a center and I would fully support this! The kids who come from other schools are like outsiders, no connection to our neighborhood.

let me guess haycock...

No Lemon Road. The bussed in kids cause a lot of problems.

Seriously? They’re coming from Westgate and Shrevewood 🙄
What kind of “problems” do these kids pose?

If anything, I feel badly for the kids assigned to a center school that don’t qualify for AAP; truly an “us” vs “them” scenario.

Yes, it sucks to have a bright kid at a center but not in aap. Wish we had a choice. The kids see kids that they are smarter than getting to learn stuff that they don't get to learn and they don't understand why they don't get to. Man, and some of the aap families are jerks about how "gifted and talented" they are.

We specifically avoided looking at houses zoned to AAP Center schools for this reason - my kids were entering 2nd & 4th when we moved so I knew one was not going to be in AAP and I didn't want to subject her to what I knew from just being at an LLIV school was going to be so much cliquishness and pettiness from AAP girls.

DP. Unfortunately, our school became an AAP center only after we had moved to the neighborhood, so we had no choice but to stay. And yes, it was miserable.

A lot of this is presumed to be due to AAP but not necessarily. We are at a center school, my son is in AAP and at least between the athletic kids, it's a good mix of kids from AAP and gen ed. Now my kid had a best friend in the 2nd grade class, but moved on in third grade. I overheard the parent assuming it had to do with AAP snobbery, but really it was that that kid didn't participate in the soccer teams at recess! So they drifted apart due to different interests, not AAP status.

This is a one-off anecdote. In general, the kids who were friends before the Great AAP/GE Divide of 3rd Grade do not remain friends.

We've been in two very different elementary schools in FCPS and the "great divide" happened to my older child in the first school and younger child in the second school. Both LLIV schools. I get that mine is also an anecdote, but it seems common, unfortunately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jealous GenEd parents never give up. First it was changing the name to AAP from G&T now this.

LOL!! I have a child in AAP and even I know it is not a Gifted & Talented program. If it was, the vast majority of kids would not qualify.

Anyway, it's my understanding that G&T was an entirely different program than AAP.

+1
Oh, it absolutely was. GT was a very tiny and extremely selective program for the few gifted kids who truly needed a separate learning environment. They changed the name to AAP when they opened it up and lowered the admissions standards. Weird that the PP thinks it was parents who made them change the name, but typical.

+1
When it was GT, an elementary school with "prestige" was likely to send 7 or 8 kids of a grade level to a center--at most. Now the same elementary school has over 50 (likely more) in an AAP center.
And, there were certainly no "twice exceptional" kids included.

+2
Now what they have are two huge groups of mostly very similar kids. If AAP and GE was a Venn diagram, the overlap in the middle would take up most of the diagram. It's only the far edges on both ends that actually need special supports.

Sure, whatever you have to tell yourself to cope.

You're in denial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Centers are needed in schools where there aren’t enough level 4 kids to make a whole class.

Ok. But there are schools that have a large enough cohort. In my opinion, the centers should only be allowed if the cohort is too small. Why should we bus kids to a center when there is a large enough cohort with a designated class. I know our center pulls from two schools. Both of these schools including my own, has a designated AAP class (not cluster model) and routinely has enough kids (12-17 kids)

It's crazy that you are anti busing AAP kids but are just fine with a 1:12 teacher to student ratio only for AAP. Doubtful that general ed classes have that ratio.

Wow. No, mommy, principals place other smart students into the Level IV class to make sure it is a similar size to the other classrooms. Most of these kids would have gotten into AAP if they were in a Title I or lower SES school anyway, so it works out. Your little baby is not "gifted" as much as you want to think s/he is. Principal placed kids do just as well if not better than the kids who got into AAP because their 2nd grade teacher liked them.

Principal placed kids get there because parents suck up to them.
Second grade teachers of the student are not on the selection committee for full time AAP.
Principal placing kids who did not make the cut into classrooms are part of the reason people prefer centers. The peer group has all been selected by a neutral centralized committee rather than who sucks up to the principal.

AAP is an advanced program. It must be hard for you to accept that even with a lower standard than gifted your kid still didn't make the cut. It's not the end of the world.

You're absolutely right, it's not the end of the world, yet here you are getting suuuuper defensive and freaking out and insulting people that you 100% know are telling the truth but oh boy, you just can't handle the fact that your child isn't as precious as you think s/he is. Trust me, my kids are going to end up in the exact same AP classes as yours in high school and will probably blow them out of the water.

You were the first to bring up kids saying my "little baby isnt gifted as I think he is." Well it's a good thing there are tests that independently confirmed giftedness for them. No sucking up needed.

It's very weird that you are comparing your kids future academic success to that of strangers. You sound very insecure about needing that annual principal placement for your future academic rockstar.

Yeah some people are really bothered by their kids not being selected for AAP. I enjoy listening to them complain and denigrate others kids.

If they stood back and took a second to breathe, they would understand that the kids are really where they need to be and should be happy the system allows this much flexibility for everyone’s learning needs.

Where is the flexibility for the remedial children? Where are their centers? Why do they have to be lumped in with all of the normal children while your special snowflake gets advanced math and extra special worksheets in AAP?

Blame the "push in" remedial parents for that. AAP parents have achieved what you want for your kids, and rather than do something to help your own all you do is insult the ones who succeeded. Try advocating to fix your problem instead of being jealous of others who have addressed theirs.

I love how you're taking full credit for your child being in AAP, thank you for admitting what we all already know. You prepped your child for the tests, you helped your child with their "work samples," and you chatted up the AART and classroom teacher. Everybody knows that only a small percentage of the kids in AAP are truly gifted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Centers are needed in schools where there aren’t enough level 4 kids to make a whole class.

Ok. But there are schools that have a large enough cohort. In my opinion, the centers should only be allowed if the cohort is too small. Why should we bus kids to a center when there is a large enough cohort with a designated class. I know our center pulls from two schools. Both of these schools including my own, has a designated AAP class (not cluster model) and routinely has enough kids (12-17 kids)

It's crazy that you are anti busing AAP kids but are just fine with a 1:12 teacher to student ratio only for AAP. Doubtful that general ed classes have that ratio.

Wow. No, mommy, principals place other smart students into the Level IV class to make sure it is a similar size to the other classrooms. Most of these kids would have gotten into AAP if they were in a Title I or lower SES school anyway, so it works out. Your little baby is not "gifted" as much as you want to think s/he is. Principal placed kids do just as well if not better than the kids who got into AAP because their 2nd grade teacher liked them.

Principal placed kids get there because parents suck up to them.
Second grade teachers of the student are not on the selection committee for full time AAP.
Principal placing kids who did not make the cut into classrooms are part of the reason people prefer centers. The peer group has all been selected by a neutral centralized committee rather than who sucks up to the principal.

AAP is an advanced program. It must be hard for you to accept that even with a lower standard than gifted your kid still didn't make the cut. It's not the end of the world.

You're absolutely right, it's not the end of the world, yet here you are getting suuuuper defensive and freaking out and insulting people that you 100% know are telling the truth but oh boy, you just can't handle the fact that your child isn't as precious as you think s/he is. Trust me, my kids are going to end up in the exact same AP classes as yours in high school and will probably blow them out of the water.

You were the first to bring up kids saying my "little baby isnt gifted as I think he is." Well it's a good thing there are tests that independently confirmed giftedness for them. No sucking up needed.

It's very weird that you are comparing your kids future academic success to that of strangers. You sound very insecure about needing that annual principal placement for your future academic rockstar.

Yeah some people are really bothered by their kids not being selected for AAP. I enjoy listening to them complain and denigrate others kids.

If they stood back and took a second to breathe, they would understand that the kids are really where they need to be and should be happy the system allows this much flexibility for everyone’s learning needs.

Where is the flexibility for the remedial children? Where are their centers? Why do they have to be lumped in with all of the normal children while your special snowflake gets advanced math and extra special worksheets in AAP?

Blame the "push in" remedial parents for that. AAP parents have achieved what you want for your kids, and rather than do something to help your own all you do is insult the ones who succeeded. Try advocating to fix your problem instead of being jealous of others who have addressed theirs.

I love how you're taking full credit for your child being in AAP, thank you for admitting what we all already know. You prepped your child for the tests, you helped your child with their "work samples," and you chatted up the AART and classroom teacher. Everybody knows that only a small percentage of the kids in AAP are truly gifted.

Actually I take no personal credit for my child being in AAP, nor for being one of the "AAP parents have achieved" in my quote you posted. The hard work to create and defend AAP from people like you was done long before I had kids to benefit from it. As for my child in particular, no matter what I say you'll take offense that either I prepped or I'm bragging - neither is true. They've never done any outside enrichment and scored extremely high on every Cogat / SOL / IReady / IAAT. They belong there all on their own.
How about instead of focusing on tearing down my kid and calling them names, you start putting in some work on your own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Centers are needed in schools where there aren’t enough level 4 kids to make a whole class.

Ok. But there are schools that have a large enough cohort. In my opinion, the centers should only be allowed if the cohort is too small. Why should we bus kids to a center when there is a large enough cohort with a designated class. I know our center pulls from two schools. Both of these schools including my own, has a designated AAP class (not cluster model) and routinely has enough kids (12-17 kids)

It's crazy that you are anti busing AAP kids but are just fine with a 1:12 teacher to student ratio only for AAP. Doubtful that general ed classes have that ratio.

Wow. No, mommy, principals place other smart students into the Level IV class to make sure it is a similar size to the other classrooms. Most of these kids would have gotten into AAP if they were in a Title I or lower SES school anyway, so it works out. Your little baby is not "gifted" as much as you want to think s/he is. Principal placed kids do just as well if not better than the kids who got into AAP because their 2nd grade teacher liked them.

Principal placed kids get there because parents suck up to them.
Second grade teachers of the student are not on the selection committee for full time AAP.
Principal placing kids who did not make the cut into classrooms are part of the reason people prefer centers. The peer group has all been selected by a neutral centralized committee rather than who sucks up to the principal.

AAP is an advanced program. It must be hard for you to accept that even with a lower standard than gifted your kid still didn't make the cut. It's not the end of the world.

You're absolutely right, it's not the end of the world, yet here you are getting suuuuper defensive and freaking out and insulting people that you 100% know are telling the truth but oh boy, you just can't handle the fact that your child isn't as precious as you think s/he is. Trust me, my kids are going to end up in the exact same AP classes as yours in high school and will probably blow them out of the water.

You were the first to bring up kids saying my "little baby isnt gifted as I think he is." Well it's a good thing there are tests that independently confirmed giftedness for them. No sucking up needed.

It's very weird that you are comparing your kids future academic success to that of strangers. You sound very insecure about needing that annual principal placement for your future academic rockstar.

Yeah some people are really bothered by their kids not being selected for AAP. I enjoy listening to them complain and denigrate others kids.

If they stood back and took a second to breathe, they would understand that the kids are really where they need to be and should be happy the system allows this much flexibility for everyone’s learning needs.

Where is the flexibility for the remedial children? Where are their centers? Why do they have to be lumped in with all of the normal children while your special snowflake gets advanced math and extra special worksheets in AAP?

Blame the "push in" remedial parents for that. AAP parents have achieved what you want for your kids, and rather than do something to help your own all you do is insult the ones who succeeded. Try advocating to fix your problem instead of being jealous of others who have addressed theirs.

I love how you're taking full credit for your child being in AAP, thank you for admitting what we all already know. You prepped your child for the tests, you helped your child with their "work samples," and you chatted up the AART and classroom teacher. Everybody knows that only a small percentage of the kids in AAP are truly gifted.

You're misreading the post you're responding to - whether wilfully or not I have no way of knowing. They aren't taking credit for their kid's achievement, they're referencing AAP being established as a program. The suggestion is that other parents can similarly advocate for their students' collective needs rather than tearing down a program that exists.

FWIW, we didn't do any prepping nor do we do any enrichment. Nor did I speak to the principal or the AART, nor did I join the PTA or otherwise volunteer. My kid was just bored mindless in class and scores in the high 99th percentile on everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our base school is a center and I would fully support this! The kids who come from other schools are like outsiders, no connection to our neighborhood.

let me guess haycock...

No Lemon Road. The bussed in kids cause a lot of problems.

Seriously? They’re coming from Westgate and Shrevewood 🙄
What kind of “problems” do these kids pose?

If anything, I feel badly for the kids assigned to a center school that don’t qualify for AAP; truly an “us” vs “them” scenario.

Yes, it sucks to have a bright kid at a center but not in aap. Wish we had a choice. The kids see kids that they are smarter than getting to learn stuff that they don't get to learn and they don't understand why they don't get to. Man, and some of the aap families are jerks about how "gifted and talented" they are.

We specifically avoided looking at houses zoned to AAP Center schools for this reason - my kids were entering 2nd & 4th when we moved so I knew one was not going to be in AAP and I didn't want to subject her to what I knew from just being at an LLIV school was going to be so much cliquishness and pettiness from AAP girls.

DP. Unfortunately, our school became an AAP center only after we had moved to the neighborhood, so we had no choice but to stay. And yes, it was miserable.

A lot of this is presumed to be due to AAP but not necessarily. We are at a center school, my son is in AAP and at least between the athletic kids, it's a good mix of kids from AAP and gen ed. Now my kid had a best friend in the 2nd grade class, but moved on in third grade. I overheard the parent assuming it had to do with AAP snobbery, but really it was that that kid didn't participate in the soccer teams at recess! So they drifted apart due to different interests, not AAP status.

This is a one-off anecdote. In general, the kids who were friends before the Great AAP/GE Divide of 3rd Grade do not remain friends.

We've been in two very different elementary schools in FCPS and the "great divide" happened to my older child in the first school and younger child in the second school. Both LLIV schools. I get that mine is also an anecdote, but it seems common, unfortunately.

This point I was trying to make was that mom was SO sure it was "great divide" related as well and... it just wasn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our base school is a center and I would fully support this! The kids who come from other schools are like outsiders, no connection to our neighborhood.

let me guess haycock...

No Lemon Road. The bussed in kids cause a lot of problems.

Seriously? They’re coming from Westgate and Shrevewood 🙄
What kind of “problems” do these kids pose?

If anything, I feel badly for the kids assigned to a center school that don’t qualify for AAP; truly an “us” vs “them” scenario.

Yes, it sucks to have a bright kid at a center but not in aap. Wish we had a choice. The kids see kids that they are smarter than getting to learn stuff that they don't get to learn and they don't understand why they don't get to. Man, and some of the aap families are jerks about how "gifted and talented" they are.

We specifically avoided looking at houses zoned to AAP Center schools for this reason - my kids were entering 2nd & 4th when we moved so I knew one was not going to be in AAP and I didn't want to subject her to what I knew from just being at an LLIV school was going to be so much cliquishness and pettiness from AAP girls.

DP. Unfortunately, our school became an AAP center only after we had moved to the neighborhood, so we had no choice but to stay. And yes, it was miserable.

A lot of this is presumed to be due to AAP but not necessarily. We are at a center school, my son is in AAP and at least between the athletic kids, it's a good mix of kids from AAP and gen ed. Now my kid had a best friend in the 2nd grade class, but moved on in third grade. I overheard the parent assuming it had to do with AAP snobbery, but really it was that that kid didn't participate in the soccer teams at recess! So they drifted apart due to different interests, not AAP status.

This is a one-off anecdote. In general, the kids who were friends before the Great AAP/GE Divide of 3rd Grade do not remain friends.

We've been in two very different elementary schools in FCPS and the "great divide" happened to my older child in the first school and younger child in the second school. Both LLIV schools. I get that mine is also an anecdote, but it seems common, unfortunately.

This point I was trying to make was that mom was SO sure it was "great divide" related as well and... it just wasn't.

Dp. Base school is a center school and the great divide definitely happened. Not everyone is that much of an ahole about it ..but it was definitely a noticable split, and a few kids and moms were bold enough to say the quiet part out loud, that my dc wasn't good enough to hang out with their dc since my kid was never going to be in the same classes with their kid. It was noticable in 3rd and 4th grade. By 5th and 6th the friend groups started to shift ( less mommy influence and more kid choice) and the divide started to become less noticeable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree that there is not that much difference between Gen Ed and AAP other than math, I type that a lot. We deferred AAP in favor of LI. Our school had a separate Advanced Math class that started in 5th grade that was great. DS joined the AAP program in MS and had no problem walking into the classes and getting As. Math gives you the one grade jump and then the opportunity for a two grade jump if you take Algebra 1H in 7th grade. I was worried that DS might struggle in the other classes since he was not in a AAP class but nope. AAP just isn't that deep.

Most people want AAP for the guarentee of the Advanced Math, it removes the possibility of your kid being dropped from the Advanced Math group.

I think Centers for the AAP kids out of Title 1 schools make sense. There are fewer kids who are advanced and pooling that population to give that group of kids a legit cohort makes sense.

We do have friends at our LI program that have commented that the Center made a world of difference for their LIV kids in Gen Ed because the Gen Ed classes were smaller and there was a smaller cohort of kids who were ahead in the course material. The LI classes were maxed and half of the LI kids were in Advanced Math. There were 5 kids in Advanced Math in the Gen Ed grouping. Being able to move to the Center made a huge difference for the kids ahead in the Gen Ed program. We would have had a strong LLIV class if you combined the LI and Gen Ed kids in the school but that is not how the school worked.

I don't think Centers are needed at most other schools. Any school that has more than 10 kids selected for AAP has enough kids to make a LLIV class. You can add in the kids in LIII and the Advanced Math kids and fill a class pretty easily. If being in the advanced group is that important to parents, they can decide if they are ok with the kid being in the same class for 4 years.

I don't know how much the bus savings would be, but I am guessing it is enough to pay for some of the monitors and aids that are beign cut because of the budget shortfall. Dropping MS Centers is an easy call to make, you should have enough AAP kids feeding into each of the MS that they can run their own AAP classes. Again, the savings on bus runs might not be massive but I would bet it is a few monitor and aid positions. We need those positions in the ES to give Teachers the time to plan and grade.

Expect more pressure on AAP, both for and against, in the future. The county is getting poorer. And as average ES approach 30-40% FARMs, more parents will be trying to get their kids into AAP and centers, not less. Meanwhile, that push will create concerns among the equity types.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that there is not that much difference between Gen Ed and AAP other than math, I type that a lot. We deferred AAP in favor of LI. Our school had a separate Advanced Math class that started in 5th grade that was great. DS joined the AAP program in MS and had no problem walking into the classes and getting As. Math gives you the one grade jump and then the opportunity for a two grade jump if you take Algebra 1H in 7th grade. I was worried that DS might struggle in the other classes since he was not in a AAP class but nope. AAP just isn't that deep.

Most people want AAP for the guarentee of the Advanced Math, it removes the possibility of your kid being dropped from the Advanced Math group.

I think Centers for the AAP kids out of Title 1 schools make sense. There are fewer kids who are advanced and pooling that population to give that group of kids a legit cohort makes sense.

We do have friends at our LI program that have commented that the Center made a world of difference for their LIV kids in Gen Ed because the Gen Ed classes were smaller and there was a smaller cohort of kids who were ahead in the course material. The LI classes were maxed and half of the LI kids were in Advanced Math. There were 5 kids in Advanced Math in the Gen Ed grouping. Being able to move to the Center made a huge difference for the kids ahead in the Gen Ed program. We would have had a strong LLIV class if you combined the LI and Gen Ed kids in the school but that is not how the school worked.

I don't think Centers are needed at most other schools. Any school that has more than 10 kids selected for AAP has enough kids to make a LLIV class. You can add in the kids in LIII and the Advanced Math kids and fill a class pretty easily. If being in the advanced group is that important to parents, they can decide if they are ok with the kid being in the same class for 4 years.

I don't know how much the bus savings would be, but I am guessing it is enough to pay for some of the monitors and aids that are beign cut because of the budget shortfall. Dropping MS Centers is an easy call to make, you should have enough AAP kids feeding into each of the MS that they can run their own AAP classes. Again, the savings on bus runs might not be massive but I would bet it is a few monitor and aid positions. We need those positions in the ES to give Teachers the time to plan and grade.

Expect more pressure on AAP, both for and against, in the future. The county is getting poorer. And as average ES approach 30-40% FARMs, more parents will be trying to get their kids into AAP and centers, not less. Meanwhile, that push will create concerns among the equity types.

I don't know how to reconcile

Anonymous wrote:The county is getting poorer.

with all the other posts about how housing is too expensive and teachers (among other jobs) can't afford to live where they work. Which is it? Are the poor people priced out or moving in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that there is not that much difference between Gen Ed and AAP other than math, I type that a lot. We deferred AAP in favor of LI. Our school had a separate Advanced Math class that started in 5th grade that was great. DS joined the AAP program in MS and had no problem walking into the classes and getting As. Math gives you the one grade jump and then the opportunity for a two grade jump if you take Algebra 1H in 7th grade. I was worried that DS might struggle in the other classes since he was not in a AAP class but nope. AAP just isn't that deep.

Most people want AAP for the guarentee of the Advanced Math, it removes the possibility of your kid being dropped from the Advanced Math group.

I think Centers for the AAP kids out of Title 1 schools make sense. There are fewer kids who are advanced and pooling that population to give that group of kids a legit cohort makes sense.

We do have friends at our LI program that have commented that the Center made a world of difference for their LIV kids in Gen Ed because the Gen Ed classes were smaller and there was a smaller cohort of kids who were ahead in the course material. The LI classes were maxed and half of the LI kids were in Advanced Math. There were 5 kids in Advanced Math in the Gen Ed grouping. Being able to move to the Center made a huge difference for the kids ahead in the Gen Ed program. We would have had a strong LLIV class if you combined the LI and Gen Ed kids in the school but that is not how the school worked.

I don't think Centers are needed at most other schools. Any school that has more than 10 kids selected for AAP has enough kids to make a LLIV class. You can add in the kids in LIII and the Advanced Math kids and fill a class pretty easily. If being in the advanced group is that important to parents, they can decide if they are ok with the kid being in the same class for 4 years.

I don't know how much the bus savings would be, but I am guessing it is enough to pay for some of the monitors and aids that are beign cut because of the budget shortfall. Dropping MS Centers is an easy call to make, you should have enough AAP kids feeding into each of the MS that they can run their own AAP classes. Again, the savings on bus runs might not be massive but I would bet it is a few monitor and aid positions. We need those positions in the ES to give Teachers the time to plan and grade.

Expect more pressure on AAP, both for and against, in the future. The county is getting poorer. And as average ES approach 30-40% FARMs, more parents will be trying to get their kids into AAP and centers, not less. Meanwhile, that push will create concerns among the equity types.

I don't know how to reconcile

Anonymous wrote:The county is getting poorer.

with all the other posts about how housing is too expensive and teachers (among other jobs) can't afford to live where they work. Which is it? Are the poor people priced out or moving in?

Don’t know what to tell you other than FARMs rates have doubled in the last 15 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that there is not that much difference between Gen Ed and AAP other than math, I type that a lot. We deferred AAP in favor of LI. Our school had a separate Advanced Math class that started in 5th grade that was great. DS joined the AAP program in MS and had no problem walking into the classes and getting As. Math gives you the one grade jump and then the opportunity for a two grade jump if you take Algebra 1H in 7th grade. I was worried that DS might struggle in the other classes since he was not in a AAP class but nope. AAP just isn't that deep.

Most people want AAP for the guarentee of the Advanced Math, it removes the possibility of your kid being dropped from the Advanced Math group.

I think Centers for the AAP kids out of Title 1 schools make sense. There are fewer kids who are advanced and pooling that population to give that group of kids a legit cohort makes sense.

We do have friends at our LI program that have commented that the Center made a world of difference for their LIV kids in Gen Ed because the Gen Ed classes were smaller and there was a smaller cohort of kids who were ahead in the course material. The LI classes were maxed and half of the LI kids were in Advanced Math. There were 5 kids in Advanced Math in the Gen Ed grouping. Being able to move to the Center made a huge difference for the kids ahead in the Gen Ed program. We would have had a strong LLIV class if you combined the LI and Gen Ed kids in the school but that is not how the school worked.

I don't think Centers are needed at most other schools. Any school that has more than 10 kids selected for AAP has enough kids to make a LLIV class. You can add in the kids in LIII and the Advanced Math kids and fill a class pretty easily. If being in the advanced group is that important to parents, they can decide if they are ok with the kid being in the same class for 4 years.

I don't know how much the bus savings would be, but I am guessing it is enough to pay for some of the monitors and aids that are beign cut because of the budget shortfall. Dropping MS Centers is an easy call to make, you should have enough AAP kids feeding into each of the MS that they can run their own AAP classes. Again, the savings on bus runs might not be massive but I would bet it is a few monitor and aid positions. We need those positions in the ES to give Teachers the time to plan and grade.

Expect more pressure on AAP, both for and against, in the future. The county is getting poorer. And as average ES approach 30-40% FARMs, more parents will be trying to get their kids into AAP and centers, not less. Meanwhile, that push will create concerns among the equity types.

I don't know how to reconcile

Anonymous wrote:The county is getting poorer.

with all the other posts about how housing is too expensive and teachers (among other jobs) can't afford to live where they work. Which is it? Are the poor people priced out or moving in?

DP. There is a little nuance in it, but the homes that most people want to live in are getting a lot more expensive and there are lots of MFH and apartments going in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that there is not that much difference between Gen Ed and AAP other than math, I type that a lot. We deferred AAP in favor of LI. Our school had a separate Advanced Math class that started in 5th grade that was great. DS joined the AAP program in MS and had no problem walking into the classes and getting As. Math gives you the one grade jump and then the opportunity for a two grade jump if you take Algebra 1H in 7th grade. I was worried that DS might struggle in the other classes since he was not in a AAP class but nope. AAP just isn't that deep.

Most people want AAP for the guarentee of the Advanced Math, it removes the possibility of your kid being dropped from the Advanced Math group.

I think Centers for the AAP kids out of Title 1 schools make sense. There are fewer kids who are advanced and pooling that population to give that group of kids a legit cohort makes sense.

We do have friends at our LI program that have commented that the Center made a world of difference for their LIV kids in Gen Ed because the Gen Ed classes were smaller and there was a smaller cohort of kids who were ahead in the course material. The LI classes were maxed and half of the LI kids were in Advanced Math. There were 5 kids in Advanced Math in the Gen Ed grouping. Being able to move to the Center made a huge difference for the kids ahead in the Gen Ed program. We would have had a strong LLIV class if you combined the LI and Gen Ed kids in the school but that is not how the school worked.

I don't think Centers are needed at most other schools. Any school that has more than 10 kids selected for AAP has enough kids to make a LLIV class. You can add in the kids in LIII and the Advanced Math kids and fill a class pretty easily. If being in the advanced group is that important to parents, they can decide if they are ok with the kid being in the same class for 4 years.

I don't know how much the bus savings would be, but I am guessing it is enough to pay for some of the monitors and aids that are beign cut because of the budget shortfall. Dropping MS Centers is an easy call to make, you should have enough AAP kids feeding into each of the MS that they can run their own AAP classes. Again, the savings on bus runs might not be massive but I would bet it is a few monitor and aid positions. We need those positions in the ES to give Teachers the time to plan and grade.

Expect more pressure on AAP, both for and against, in the future. The county is getting poorer. And as average ES approach 30-40% FARMs, more parents will be trying to get their kids into AAP and centers, not less. Meanwhile, that push will create concerns among the equity types.

I don't know how to reconcile

Anonymous wrote:The county is getting poorer.

with all the other posts about how housing is too expensive and teachers (among other jobs) can't afford to live where they work. Which is it? Are the poor people priced out or moving in?

DP. There is a little nuance in it, but the homes that most people want to live in are getting a lot more expensive and there are lots of MFH and apartments going in.

There's also a growing population of families living in basement apartments or other house-sharing arrangements.

The area is a microcosm of the growing wealth divide in the nation. Both extremes are represented and the middle is faltering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that there is not that much difference between Gen Ed and AAP other than math, I type that a lot. We deferred AAP in favor of LI. Our school had a separate Advanced Math class that started in 5th grade that was great. DS joined the AAP program in MS and had no problem walking into the classes and getting As. Math gives you the one grade jump and then the opportunity for a two grade jump if you take Algebra 1H in 7th grade. I was worried that DS might struggle in the other classes since he was not in a AAP class but nope. AAP just isn't that deep.

Most people want AAP for the guarentee of the Advanced Math, it removes the possibility of your kid being dropped from the Advanced Math group.

I think Centers for the AAP kids out of Title 1 schools make sense. There are fewer kids who are advanced and pooling that population to give that group of kids a legit cohort makes sense.

We do have friends at our LI program that have commented that the Center made a world of difference for their LIV kids in Gen Ed because the Gen Ed classes were smaller and there was a smaller cohort of kids who were ahead in the course material. The LI classes were maxed and half of the LI kids were in Advanced Math. There were 5 kids in Advanced Math in the Gen Ed grouping. Being able to move to the Center made a huge difference for the kids ahead in the Gen Ed program. We would have had a strong LLIV class if you combined the LI and Gen Ed kids in the school but that is not how the school worked.

I don't think Centers are needed at most other schools. Any school that has more than 10 kids selected for AAP has enough kids to make a LLIV class. You can add in the kids in LIII and the Advanced Math kids and fill a class pretty easily. If being in the advanced group is that important to parents, they can decide if they are ok with the kid being in the same class for 4 years.

I don't know how much the bus savings would be, but I am guessing it is enough to pay for some of the monitors and aids that are beign cut because of the budget shortfall. Dropping MS Centers is an easy call to make, you should have enough AAP kids feeding into each of the MS that they can run their own AAP classes. Again, the savings on bus runs might not be massive but I would bet it is a few monitor and aid positions. We need those positions in the ES to give Teachers the time to plan and grade.

Expect more pressure on AAP, both for and against, in the future. The county is getting poorer. And as average ES approach 30-40% FARMs, more parents will be trying to get their kids into AAP and centers, not less. Meanwhile, that push will create concerns among the equity types.

I don't know how to reconcile

Anonymous wrote:The county is getting poorer.

with all the other posts about how housing is too expensive and teachers (among other jobs) can't afford to live where they work. Which is it? Are the poor people priced out or moving in?

DP. There is a little nuance in it, but the homes that most people want to live in are getting a lot more expensive and there are lots of MFH and apartments going in.

There's also a growing population of families living in basement apartments or other house-sharing arrangements.

The area is a microcosm of the growing wealth divide in the nation. Both extremes are represented and the middle is faltering.

Partly due to Fairfax County's very generous support for poor residents (and ability to tax the rest of us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Centers are needed in schools where there aren’t enough level 4 kids to make a whole class.

Ok. But there are schools that have a large enough cohort. In my opinion, the centers should only be allowed if the cohort is too small. Why should we bus kids to a center when there is a large enough cohort with a designated class. I know our center pulls from two schools. Both of these schools including my own, has a designated AAP class (not cluster model) and routinely has enough kids (12-17 kids)

It's crazy that you are anti busing AAP kids but are just fine with a 1:12 teacher to student ratio only for AAP. Doubtful that general ed classes have that ratio.

Wow. No, mommy, principals place other smart students into the Level IV class to make sure it is a similar size to the other classrooms. Most of these kids would have gotten into AAP if they were in a Title I or lower SES school anyway, so it works out. Your little baby is not "gifted" as much as you want to think s/he is. Principal placed kids do just as well if not better than the kids who got into AAP because their 2nd grade teacher liked them.

Principal placed kids get there because parents suck up to them.
Second grade teachers of the student are not on the selection committee for full time AAP.
Principal placing kids who did not make the cut into classrooms are part of the reason people prefer centers. The peer group has all been selected by a neutral centralized committee rather than who sucks up to the principal.

AAP is an advanced program. It must be hard for you to accept that even with a lower standard than gifted your kid still didn't make the cut. It's not the end of the world.

You're absolutely right, it's not the end of the world, yet here you are getting suuuuper defensive and freaking out and insulting people that you 100% know are telling the truth but oh boy, you just can't handle the fact that your child isn't as precious as you think s/he is. Trust me, my kids are going to end up in the exact same AP classes as yours in high school and will probably blow them out of the water.

You were the first to bring up kids saying my "little baby isnt gifted as I think he is." Well it's a good thing there are tests that independently confirmed giftedness for them. No sucking up needed.

It's very weird that you are comparing your kids future academic success to that of strangers. You sound very insecure about needing that annual principal placement for your future academic rockstar.

Yeah some people are really bothered by their kids not being selected for AAP. I enjoy listening to them complain and denigrate others kids.

If they stood back and took a second to breathe, they would understand that the kids are really where they need to be and should be happy the system allows this much flexibility for everyone’s learning needs.

Where is the flexibility for the remedial children? Where are their centers? Why do they have to be lumped in with all of the normal children while your special snowflake gets advanced math and extra special worksheets in AAP?

A good number of people would love to have tracked classes so that kids are taught at the level that they need. I would love there to be remedial classes. I think they should be smaller classes, 15 kids, supported by reading and math specialists. That would give the teacher time to focus on helping the kids learn the skills they need and move into the regular track class.

I would like to have a class for kids who are on grade level and a class for kids who are ahead of grade level. These classes could be a bit bigger because the teachers have fewer groupings to worry about and are focused on teaching material at grade level or ahead of grade level. The kids are on track and should need less support then remedial kids, so the classes can be bigger.

That is never going to happen because people will flip out when they see remedial classes that are full of kids who some from families with little to know academic support at home, mainly poor families. In our area that will mean mainly Black kids who come from generational poverty and Hispanic kids who come from immigrant families. Both groups tend not to have a history of strong academics. Toss in that the class of advanced learners is likely to be mainly Asian families, where there is a culture that focuses on education as a tool for advancement through better jobs and positions, and White kids in the grade level and advanced group and, well, we can't have that.

The argument for the push in classes is that it is better for the kids who are behind so that they don't feel lesser and so that they are motivated to catch their peers. Never mind that it hasn't actually worked and kids are falling further behind, we have classes that include everybody and that is awesome.

We are asking schools to find a way to educate kids who go home to empty houses because parents are working with no books, because the parents don't read or can't read, with no support to practice skills they are learning at school. And when that doesn't work, because the kids don't have support at home, we tell teachers they can't give hoework, because some kids don't have parents who can help them so homework isn't fair. And now all the kids are hurt, the kids who don't have support but who are able to it on their own, the kids with parents who can help them if they need help, because there is a population that doesn't have help at home.

The answer shouldn't be hurt the kids who have a program because they are ahead and can participate in the program. The answer should be finding a way to work with all the kids while understanding that there are some kids who we can't help. Try and find a way to help those kids but don't hurt the rest of the kids. Right now it feels like we are slowing down 60% of the kids to benefit 15% of the kids and those 15% are not benefiting. The ones who are getting something out of school are the 15%-20% in AAP who are allowed to learn at a regular, slightly advanced pace.

I agree with this analysis 100%. I realize it's impolitic for the reasons cited, but it would be nice to strive for excellence in FCPS again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Centers are needed in schools where there aren’t enough level 4 kids to make a whole class.

Ok. But there are schools that have a large enough cohort. In my opinion, the centers should only be allowed if the cohort is too small. Why should we bus kids to a center when there is a large enough cohort with a designated class. I know our center pulls from two schools. Both of these schools including my own, has a designated AAP class (not cluster model) and routinely has enough kids (12-17 kids)

It's crazy that you are anti busing AAP kids but are just fine with a 1:12 teacher to student ratio only for AAP. Doubtful that general ed classes have that ratio.

Wow. No, mommy, principals place other smart students into the Level IV class to make sure it is a similar size to the other classrooms. Most of these kids would have gotten into AAP if they were in a Title I or lower SES school anyway, so it works out. Your little baby is not "gifted" as much as you want to think s/he is. Principal placed kids do just as well if not better than the kids who got into AAP because their 2nd grade teacher liked them.

Principal placed kids get there because parents suck up to them.
Second grade teachers of the student are not on the selection committee for full time AAP.
Principal placing kids who did not make the cut into classrooms are part of the reason people prefer centers. The peer group has all been selected by a neutral centralized committee rather than who sucks up to the principal.

AAP is an advanced program. It must be hard for you to accept that even with a lower standard than gifted your kid still didn't make the cut. It's not the end of the world.

You're absolutely right, it's not the end of the world, yet here you are getting suuuuper defensive and freaking out and insulting people that you 100% know are telling the truth but oh boy, you just can't handle the fact that your child isn't as precious as you think s/he is. Trust me, my kids are going to end up in the exact same AP classes as yours in high school and will probably blow them out of the water.

You were the first to bring up kids saying my "little baby isnt gifted as I think he is." Well it's a good thing there are tests that independently confirmed giftedness for them. No sucking up needed.

It's very weird that you are comparing your kids future academic success to that of strangers. You sound very insecure about needing that annual principal placement for your future academic rockstar.

Yeah some people are really bothered by their kids not being selected for AAP. I enjoy listening to them complain and denigrate others kids.

If they stood back and took a second to breathe, they would understand that the kids are really where they need to be and should be happy the system allows this much flexibility for everyone’s learning needs.

Where is the flexibility for the remedial children? Where are their centers? Why do they have to be lumped in with all of the normal children while your special snowflake gets advanced math and extra special worksheets in AAP?

Are you serious? The elimination of leveled classrooms/tracking and the mainstreaming of remedial and special ed students was the result of parents of those students pushing for mainstreaming. Parents of advanced and on-level kids didn't do any of this to you - point your finger at your own counterparts from the last decades.

Currently, you could advocate for more tracking in every school - but I'd be ready from blowback from other parents who don't want to see their kid in the remedial class, even if it would be the best fit.

LOLing at you saying AAP parents didn't cause this. PLEASE. Parents are absolutely the reason there is a bloated AAP program full of normal children who belong in GenEd.