Unvaxxed child in Texas just died of the measles

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone here informed about “shedding”?

Viral shedding?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0264410X16300895

"There is no documented evidence of measles vaccine virus transmission."

we may need this in capital letters for the nutjob that posted that prior comment.

While yes, scant attenuated measles virus can be isolated from someone recently vaccinated for up to a few weeks after vaccination, with very high cycle times (meaning the lab equipment repeatedly looks for the virus and keeps cycling over and over again - the higher the cycle time, the less virus is present)

"THERE IS NO DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE OF MEASLES VACCINE VIRUS TRANSMISSION"

In other words, the verrrrrrry tiny bit of weakened vaccine derived virus shed by a person recently vaccinated does not actually lead to infection of others in the real world.

Shedding is a general term referring to the virion shedding from an infected host. The reason why this is an uncomfortable conversation is because it also refers to vaccinated people shedding the virus they are infected with with or without any symptoms. Vaccines can blunt the symptoms and make the infection milder but may not always prevent transmission. It's possible for people vaccinated against Measles to spread (e.g. shed measles virus) to others. They may not show characteristic symptoms.

I get that. But in vaccine conspiracy theory circles, social media, etc., they will point to shedding of measles being caused by the vaccine itself, implying that vaccination causes outbreaks. And yes there is research that shows that scant amounts of vaccine type measles can identified for a few weeks after vaccination via PCR testing of nasal specimens. However, most importantly, shedding of the vaccine type virus (which is an attenuated, weakened form) is not associated with transmission or outbreak nor is it associated with the TX outbreak. Social media posta implying overwise are false.

Ok, This isn't what is automatically implied by "shedding", anyone can look up this term and what it means. The controversy is that vaccinated aren't automatically excluded from the equation of transmission/outbreak even when it's proven to be wild virus and they show no symptoms. In other words, transmission cannot be blamed on the unvaxxed only. If you received your vaccines (my kids did) or you had the virus, then you should be protected enough from the ill effects of this virus and especially and most importantly, complications. So, I am not worried and I think this is politicized.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone here informed about “shedding”?

Viral shedding?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0264410X16300895

"There is no documented evidence of measles vaccine virus transmission."

we may need this in capital letters for the nutjob that posted that prior comment.

While yes, scant attenuated measles virus can be isolated from someone recently vaccinated for up to a few weeks after vaccination, with very high cycle times (meaning the lab equipment repeatedly looks for the virus and keeps cycling over and over again - the higher the cycle time, the less virus is present)

"THERE IS NO DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE OF MEASLES VACCINE VIRUS TRANSMISSION"

In other words, the verrrrrrry tiny bit of weakened vaccine derived virus shed by a person recently vaccinated does not actually lead to infection of others in the real world.

Shedding is a general term referring to the virion shedding from an infected host. The reason why this is an uncomfortable conversation is because it also refers to vaccinated people shedding the virus they are infected with with or without any symptoms. Vaccines can blunt the symptoms and make the infection milder but may not always prevent transmission. It's possible for people vaccinated against Measles to spread (e.g. shed measles virus) to others. They may not show characteristic symptoms.

I get that. But in vaccine conspiracy theory circles, social media, etc., they will point to shedding of measles being caused by the vaccine itself, implying that vaccination causes outbreaks. And yes there is research that shows that scant amounts of vaccine type measles can identified for a few weeks after vaccination via PCR testing of nasal specimens. However, most importantly, shedding of the vaccine type virus (which is an attenuated, weakened form) is not associated with transmission or outbreak nor is it associated with the TX outbreak. Social media posta implying overwise are false.

Ok, This isn't what is automatically implied by "shedding", anyone can look up this term and what it means. The controversy is that vaccinated aren't automatically excluded from the equation of transmission/outbreak even when it's proven to be wild virus and they show no symptoms. In other words, transmission cannot be blamed on the unvaxxed only. If you received your vaccines (my kids did) or you had the virus, then you should be protected enough from the ill effects of this virus and especially and most importantly, complications. So, I am not worried and I think this is politicized.

I was not addressing my own personal fears for measles. I have none for myself or my kids, we are vaccinated. I was addressing conspiracy theories about the TX outbreak being caused by vaccination. We are talking the same things.

But I do work in healthcare, literally in a role where I am involved in addressing exposures to infectious diseases. Thinking about the odds of a single measles case in a packed ER is my literal reality. From that perspective, I do have broader concerns with US vaccination rate trends and laissez faire attitudes toward vaccination as a personal choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone here informed about “shedding”?

Viral shedding?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0264410X16300895

"There is no documented evidence of measles vaccine virus transmission."

we may need this in capital letters for the nutjob that posted that prior comment.

While yes, scant attenuated measles virus can be isolated from someone recently vaccinated for up to a few weeks after vaccination, with very high cycle times (meaning the lab equipment repeatedly looks for the virus and keeps cycling over and over again - the higher the cycle time, the less virus is present)

"THERE IS NO DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE OF MEASLES VACCINE VIRUS TRANSMISSION"

In other words, the verrrrrrry tiny bit of weakened vaccine derived virus shed by a person recently vaccinated does not actually lead to infection of others in the real world.

Shedding is a general term referring to the virion shedding from an infected host. The reason why this is an uncomfortable conversation is because it also refers to vaccinated people shedding the virus they are infected with with or without any symptoms. Vaccines can blunt the symptoms and make the infection milder but may not always prevent transmission. It's possible for people vaccinated against Measles to spread (e.g. shed measles virus) to others. They may not show characteristic symptoms.

I get that. But in vaccine conspiracy theory circles, social media, etc., they will point to shedding of measles being caused by the vaccine itself, implying that vaccination causes outbreaks. And yes there is research that shows that scant amounts of vaccine type measles can identified for a few weeks after vaccination via PCR testing of nasal specimens. However, most importantly, shedding of the vaccine type virus (which is an attenuated, weakened form) is not associated with transmission or outbreak nor is it associated with the TX outbreak. Social media posta implying overwise are false.

Ok, This isn't what is automatically implied by "shedding", anyone can look up this term and what it means. The controversy is that vaccinated aren't automatically excluded from the equation of transmission/outbreak even when it's proven to be wild virus and they show no symptoms. In other words, transmission cannot be blamed on the unvaxxed only. If you received your vaccines (my kids did) or you had the virus, then you should be protected enough from the ill effects of this virus and especially and most importantly, complications. So, I am not worried and I think this is politicized.

I was not addressing my own personal fears for measles. I have none for myself or my kids, we are vaccinated. I was addressing conspiracy theories about the TX outbreak being caused by vaccination. We are talking the same things.

But I do work in healthcare, literally in a role where I am involved in addressing exposures to infectious diseases. Thinking about the odds of a single measles case in a packed ER is my literal reality. From that perspective, I do have broader concerns with US vaccination rate trends and laissez faire attitudes toward vaccination as a personal choice.

*Not talking about the same things

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just stop with all the fearmongering. There is no information about the health of the child who died. I've posted before that I had measles as a child as did my parents and their parents and all my friends and relatives and not anyone we knew or anyone they knew died. This child must have been very sick. It's quite sad that he wasn't vaccinated, but he might have died from something else if he were very sick. Measles is not polio. It's not going to spark a pandemic. All will be well. Calm down.

Yes, there is information. They died from measles, a wholly preventable disease.

Preexisting conditions?

Let's pretend the child had diabetes. What is your next step, after obtaining that information? I'm genuinely confused about why you need this information.

I'm not the anti-vax PP you were responding to but I came to this thread to figure out why I'm seeing people online talk about this child who died.

They seem to be saying the child who died of measles, actually was hospitalized with RSV AND Pneumonia as well and then picked up measles in the hospital.

I've seen that two places now. But they won't cite their source of that information. I came here to see if anyone was also saying that? But apparently not.

Anyhow - that's what is going around the anti-vax, measles isn't that big a deal TikTok world - the child had "pre existing conditions" of RSV and Pneumonio, and then acquired measles while in the hospital. So they didn't die "of measles".

Even *if* that information were true (again - no source for it) -- STILL -- they would have died of the measles. Because a sick child in the hospital should not be getting measles - which could kill him in his weakened state. That's exactly why you vaccinate your kids - so if they are sick with other things, vaccine preventable diseases don't kill them.

This is what people don’t seem to understand.

What you don't understand is that pneumonia is deadly in and of its own. In fact it's very dangerous for you to not understand it because vaccination against respiratory viruses isn't going to guarantee protection from bacterial pneumonia that can kill you. You should always get an xray after you feel like you cannot get better fast enough from a bad respiratory virus case and not count on it to go away on its own. Antibiotics are effective and save lives if diagnosed early enough. Most people dying from flu die from pneumonia that gets too advanced. it's likely RSV that's created this complication . RSV vaccine is not mandatory.

Anyway, vast majority of kids are vaccinated, mine too and I am not worried. I am still trying to find out why all of you are so worried given that I am pretty sure your kids are vaccinated?

1. Children too young to be effectively vaccinated
- About 1.1% of the US population is <1 year old -- that's 3.74 million infants in the US
- https://www.americashealthrankings.org/explore/measures/pct_infant

2. People with genetic immunodeficiencies that prevent effective vaccination
- About 4.5/10,000 of the US population has a primary immunodeficiency (primary B-cell immunodeficiency, primary T-cell immunodeficiency, complement deficiency, or PMN deficiency) -- that's about 153,000 people in the US
- https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4009347/
-

3. People on chemotherapy and other chronic medical disease treatment(e.g., autoimmune disorders) that suppresses their immune resistance to measles
- If you really want a deep dive on this and it would make a difference to someone's beliefs, I will calculate, but it's certainly in the millions

4. A single dose of measles vaccine confers about 95% protection, and two doses gets it to "over 99%"
- Even if the vaccine effectiveness is 99.9%, that's not 100%
- When you are talking about large numbers of people, that adds up -- for 99.9% effectiveness, 0.1% of the US population is about 340,000 people across the US. If it's 99.5%, that would be about 1.7 million people across the US
- https://www.cdc.gov/pinkbook/hcp/table-of-contents/chapter-13-measles.html

You are talking about millions to tens of million vulnerable people across the country, even if every single person who can get vaccinated, does so. That is why herd immunity is important.

Don't forget about the risk to pregnant women

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone here informed about “shedding”?

Viral shedding?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0264410X16300895

"There is no documented evidence of measles vaccine virus transmission."

we may need this in capital letters for the nutjob that posted that prior comment.

While yes, scant attenuated measles virus can be isolated from someone recently vaccinated for up to a few weeks after vaccination, with very high cycle times (meaning the lab equipment repeatedly looks for the virus and keeps cycling over and over again - the higher the cycle time, the less virus is present)

"THERE IS NO DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE OF MEASLES VACCINE VIRUS TRANSMISSION"

In other words, the verrrrrrry tiny bit of weakened vaccine derived virus shed by a person recently vaccinated does not actually lead to infection of others in the real world.

Shedding is a general term referring to the virion shedding from an infected host. The reason why this is an uncomfortable conversation is because it also refers to vaccinated people shedding the virus they are infected with with or without any symptoms. Vaccines can blunt the symptoms and make the infection milder but may not always prevent transmission. It's possible for people vaccinated against Measles to spread (e.g. shed measles virus) to others. They may not show characteristic symptoms.

Another reason for everyone to be vaccinated. You don't know when you're going to be around an asymptomatic infected person.

Nobody says you shouldn't be vaccinated, ugh, it's getting tedious with you people. But you cannot possibly enforce 100% vaccination and it was never done, unvaxxed communities existed and will exist. Freaking out about this right now is purely political propaganda. What is the end goal of this freak out? How will you ensure every baby is vaxxed? You cannot.

Generally, rates have declined and we have gotten more lenient with allowing exemptions; it is concerning to have an HHS leader who leans into the idea of vaccination as a "personal choice" specifically for measles for how contagious it is and how easily one unvaxxed symptomatic individual can impact young babies.

We did actually used to be much more strict on the religious exemption front. I do not agree with a "personal choice" stance for measles vaccination.

DP to add, there was plenty of alarm, news articles, etc over the 2019 outbreak and we did not have a "personal choice" HHS leader back then.

Vaccinated can spread the virus. Young babies are dying of measles left and right because it's the unvaxxed (which are a tiny minority even with the choice..) are infecting them. I chose to vaccinate my kids even given a choice not to. I am pro-choice all around. I believe people should exercise the right of what substances they want and don't want INSIDE their bodies (things they cannot remove, e.g. bodily alterations). If we do away with the choice then beneficial vaccination can turn into something more nefarious in the future (given that we would have to use technology to force 100% vaccination), and you can count on some unhinged people to want to take advantage of this.

[Anonymous]

18:01, vaccinated can spread the virus?
How so?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:18:01, vaccinated can spread the virus?
How so?

Not really.

https://academic.oup.com/jid/article-abstract/189/Supplement_1/S165/821757?redirectedFrom=fulltext

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone here informed about “shedding”?

Viral shedding?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0264410X16300895

"There is no documented evidence of measles vaccine virus transmission."

we may need this in capital letters for the nutjob that posted that prior comment.

While yes, scant attenuated measles virus can be isolated from someone recently vaccinated for up to a few weeks after vaccination, with very high cycle times (meaning the lab equipment repeatedly looks for the virus and keeps cycling over and over again - the higher the cycle time, the less virus is present)

"THERE IS NO DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE OF MEASLES VACCINE VIRUS TRANSMISSION"

In other words, the verrrrrrry tiny bit of weakened vaccine derived virus shed by a person recently vaccinated does not actually lead to infection of others in the real world.

Shedding is a general term referring to the virion shedding from an infected host. The reason why this is an uncomfortable conversation is because it also refers to vaccinated people shedding the virus they are infected with with or without any symptoms. Vaccines can blunt the symptoms and make the infection milder but may not always prevent transmission. It's possible for people vaccinated against Measles to spread (e.g. shed measles virus) to others. They may not show characteristic symptoms.

Another reason for everyone to be vaccinated. You don't know when you're going to be around an asymptomatic infected person.

Nobody says you shouldn't be vaccinated, ugh, it's getting tedious with you people. But you cannot possibly enforce 100% vaccination and it was never done, unvaxxed communities existed and will exist. Freaking out about this right now is purely political propaganda. What is the end goal of this freak out? How will you ensure every baby is vaxxed? You cannot.

Generally, rates have declined and we have gotten more lenient with allowing exemptions; it is concerning to have an HHS leader who leans into the idea of vaccination as a "personal choice" specifically for measles for how contagious it is and how easily one unvaxxed symptomatic individual can impact young babies.

We did actually used to be much more strict on the religious exemption front. I do not agree with a "personal choice" stance for measles vaccination.

DP to add, there was plenty of alarm, news articles, etc over the 2019 outbreak and we did not have a "personal choice" HHS leader back then.

Vaccinated can spread the virus. Young babies are dying of measles left and right because it's the unvaxxed (which are a tiny minority even with the choice..) are infecting them. I chose to vaccinate my kids even given a choice not to. I am pro-choice all around. I believe people should exercise the right of what substances they want and don't want INSIDE their bodies (things they cannot remove, e.g. bodily alterations). If we do away with the choice then beneficial vaccination can turn into something more nefarious in the future (given that we would have to use technology to force 100% vaccination), and you can count on some unhinged people to want to take advantage of this.

Vaccinated do not spread the virus, not in any meaningful, impactful way. Where are you getting that from? Here is one study, for example. Vaccinated are not causing outbreaks.

https://academic.oup.com/jid/article-abstract/189/Supplement_1/S165/821757?redirectedFrom=fulltext

I am not following what you are saying but if MMR vaccination becomes a personal choice, we will sink even further from barely 90 percent immunity (when 95 percent is needed for herd immunity) and that puts others - ALL babies too young for vaccination, kids and adults on chemo, steroids organ transplant recipients, etc and more at higher risk because we end up with more idiots making poor choices and then walking around a grocery store.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just stop with all the fearmongering. There is no information about the health of the child who died. I've posted before that I had measles as a child as did my parents and their parents and all my friends and relatives and not anyone we knew or anyone they knew died. This child must have been very sick. It's quite sad that he wasn't vaccinated, but he might have died from something else if he were very sick. Measles is not polio. It's not going to spark a pandemic. All will be well. Calm down.

Yes, there is information. They died from measles, a wholly preventable disease.

Preexisting conditions?

Let's pretend the child had diabetes. What is your next step, after obtaining that information? I'm genuinely confused about why you need this information.

I'm not the anti-vax PP you were responding to but I came to this thread to figure out why I'm seeing people online talk about this child who died.

They seem to be saying the child who died of measles, actually was hospitalized with RSV AND Pneumonia as well and then picked up measles in the hospital.

I've seen that two places now. But they won't cite their source of that information. I came here to see if anyone was also saying that? But apparently not.

Anyhow - that's what is going around the anti-vax, measles isn't that big a deal TikTok world - the child had "pre existing conditions" of RSV and Pneumonio, and then acquired measles while in the hospital. So they didn't die "of measles".

Even *if* that information were true (again - no source for it) -- STILL -- they would have died of the measles. Because a sick child in the hospital should not be getting measles - which could kill him in his weakened state. That's exactly why you vaccinate your kids - so if they are sick with other things, vaccine preventable diseases don't kill them.

This is what people don’t seem to understand.

What you don't understand is that pneumonia is deadly in and of its own. In fact it's very dangerous for you to not understand it because vaccination against respiratory viruses isn't going to guarantee protection from bacterial pneumonia that can kill you. You should always get an xray after you feel like you cannot get better fast enough from a bad respiratory virus case and not count on it to go away on its own. Antibiotics are effective and save lives if diagnosed early enough. Most people dying from flu die from pneumonia that gets too advanced. it's likely RSV that's created this complication . RSV vaccine is not mandatory.

Anyway, vast majority of kids are vaccinated, mine too and I am not worried. I am still trying to find out why all of you are so worried given that I am pretty sure your kids are vaccinated?

1. Children too young to be effectively vaccinated
- About 1.1% of the US population is <1 year old -- that's 3.74 million infants in the US
- https://www.americashealthrankings.org/explore/measures/pct_infant

2. People with genetic immunodeficiencies that prevent effective vaccination
- About 4.5/10,000 of the US population has a primary immunodeficiency (primary B-cell immunodeficiency, primary T-cell immunodeficiency, complement deficiency, or PMN deficiency) -- that's about 153,000 people in the US
- https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4009347/
-

3. People on chemotherapy and other chronic medical disease treatment(e.g., autoimmune disorders) that suppresses their immune resistance to measles
- If you really want a deep dive on this and it would make a difference to someone's beliefs, I will calculate, but it's certainly in the millions

4. A single dose of measles vaccine confers about 95% protection, and two doses gets it to "over 99%"
- Even if the vaccine effectiveness is 99.9%, that's not 100%
- When you are talking about large numbers of people, that adds up -- for 99.9% effectiveness, 0.1% of the US population is about 340,000 people across the US. If it's 99.5%, that would be about 1.7 million people across the US
- https://www.cdc.gov/pinkbook/hcp/table-of-contents/chapter-13-measles.html

You are talking about millions to tens of million vulnerable people across the country, even if every single person who can get vaccinated, does so. That is why herd immunity is important.

Don't forget about the risk to pregnant women

One of the active US cases is an infant who had traveled overseas and returned infected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just stop with all the fearmongering. There is no information about the health of the child who died. I've posted before that I had measles as a child as did my parents and their parents and all my friends and relatives and not anyone we knew or anyone they knew died. This child must have been very sick. It's quite sad that he wasn't vaccinated, but he might have died from something else if he were very sick. Measles is not polio. It's not going to spark a pandemic. All will be well. Calm down.

Yes, there is information. They died from measles, a wholly preventable disease.

Preexisting conditions?

Let's pretend the child had diabetes. What is your next step, after obtaining that information? I'm genuinely confused about why you need this information.

I'm not the anti-vax PP you were responding to but I came to this thread to figure out why I'm seeing people online talk about this child who died.

They seem to be saying the child who died of measles, actually was hospitalized with RSV AND Pneumonia as well and then picked up measles in the hospital.

I've seen that two places now. But they won't cite their source of that information. I came here to see if anyone was also saying that? But apparently not.

Anyhow - that's what is going around the anti-vax, measles isn't that big a deal TikTok world - the child had "pre existing conditions" of RSV and Pneumonio, and then acquired measles while in the hospital. So they didn't die "of measles".

Even *if* that information were true (again - no source for it) -- STILL -- they would have died of the measles. Because a sick child in the hospital should not be getting measles - which could kill him in his weakened state. That's exactly why you vaccinate your kids - so if they are sick with other things, vaccine preventable diseases don't kill them.

This is what people don’t seem to understand.

What you don't understand is that pneumonia is deadly in and of its own. In fact it's very dangerous for you to not understand it because vaccination against respiratory viruses isn't going to guarantee protection from bacterial pneumonia that can kill you. You should always get an xray after you feel like you cannot get better fast enough from a bad respiratory virus case and not count on it to go away on its own. Antibiotics are effective and save lives if diagnosed early enough. Most people dying from flu die from pneumonia that gets too advanced. it's likely RSV that's created this complication . RSV vaccine is not mandatory.

Anyway, vast majority of kids are vaccinated, mine too and I am not worried. I am still trying to find out why all of you are so worried given that I am pretty sure your kids are vaccinated?

1. Children too young to be effectively vaccinated
- About 1.1% of the US population is <1 year old -- that's 3.74 million infants in the US
- https://www.americashealthrankings.org/explore/measures/pct_infant

2. People with genetic immunodeficiencies that prevent effective vaccination
- About 4.5/10,000 of the US population has a primary immunodeficiency (primary B-cell immunodeficiency, primary T-cell immunodeficiency, complement deficiency, or PMN deficiency) -- that's about 153,000 people in the US
- https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4009347/
-

3. People on chemotherapy and other chronic medical disease treatment(e.g., autoimmune disorders) that suppresses their immune resistance to measles
- If you really want a deep dive on this and it would make a difference to someone's beliefs, I will calculate, but it's certainly in the millions

4. A single dose of measles vaccine confers about 95% protection, and two doses gets it to "over 99%"
- Even if the vaccine effectiveness is 99.9%, that's not 100%
- When you are talking about large numbers of people, that adds up -- for 99.9% effectiveness, 0.1% of the US population is about 340,000 people across the US. If it's 99.5%, that would be about 1.7 million people across the US
- https://www.cdc.gov/pinkbook/hcp/table-of-contents/chapter-13-measles.html

You are talking about millions to tens of million vulnerable people across the country, even if every single person who can get vaccinated, does so. That is why herd immunity is important.

Don't forget about the risk to pregnant women

One of the active US cases is an infant who had traveled overseas and returned infected.

What country?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone here informed about “shedding”?

Viral shedding?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0264410X16300895

"There is no documented evidence of measles vaccine virus transmission."

we may need this in capital letters for the nutjob that posted that prior comment.

While yes, scant attenuated measles virus can be isolated from someone recently vaccinated for up to a few weeks after vaccination, with very high cycle times (meaning the lab equipment repeatedly looks for the virus and keeps cycling over and over again - the higher the cycle time, the less virus is present)

"THERE IS NO DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE OF MEASLES VACCINE VIRUS TRANSMISSION"

In other words, the verrrrrrry tiny bit of weakened vaccine derived virus shed by a person recently vaccinated does not actually lead to infection of others in the real world.

Shedding is a general term referring to the virion shedding from an infected host. The reason why this is an uncomfortable conversation is because it also refers to vaccinated people shedding the virus they are infected with with or without any symptoms. Vaccines can blunt the symptoms and make the infection milder but may not always prevent transmission. It's possible for people vaccinated against Measles to spread (e.g. shed measles virus) to others. They may not show characteristic symptoms.

I get that. But in vaccine conspiracy theory circles, social media, etc., they will point to shedding of measles being caused by the vaccine itself, implying that vaccination causes outbreaks. And yes there is research that shows that scant amounts of vaccine type measles can identified for a few weeks after vaccination via PCR testing of nasal specimens. However, most importantly, shedding of the vaccine type virus (which is an attenuated, weakened form) is not associated with transmission or outbreak nor is it associated with the TX outbreak. Social media posta implying overwise are false.

Ok, This isn't what is automatically implied by "shedding", anyone can look up this term and what it means. The controversy is that vaccinated aren't automatically excluded from the equation of transmission/outbreak even when it's proven to be wild virus and they show no symptoms. In other words, transmission cannot be blamed on the unvaxxed only. If you received your vaccines (my kids did) or you had the virus, then you should be protected enough from the ill effects of this virus and especially and most importantly, complications. So, I am not worried and I think this is politicized.

Unless you (or someone you love) are one of the tens of millions of people across the country who are infants too young to be vaccinated, or people on immunotherapy for cancer or autoimmune diseases, or who have a primary immunodeficiency, or who just happen to fall into the small (but real) failure rate even with two vaccines.

But for some reason you don't think they count. Why is that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just stop with all the fearmongering. There is no information about the health of the child who died. I've posted before that I had measles as a child as did my parents and their parents and all my friends and relatives and not anyone we knew or anyone they knew died. This child must have been very sick. It's quite sad that he wasn't vaccinated, but he might have died from something else if he were very sick. Measles is not polio. It's not going to spark a pandemic. All will be well. Calm down.

Yes, there is information. They died from measles, a wholly preventable disease.

Preexisting conditions?

Let's pretend the child had diabetes. What is your next step, after obtaining that information? I'm genuinely confused about why you need this information.

I'm not the anti-vax PP you were responding to but I came to this thread to figure out why I'm seeing people online talk about this child who died.

They seem to be saying the child who died of measles, actually was hospitalized with RSV AND Pneumonia as well and then picked up measles in the hospital.

I've seen that two places now. But they won't cite their source of that information. I came here to see if anyone was also saying that? But apparently not.

Anyhow - that's what is going around the anti-vax, measles isn't that big a deal TikTok world - the child had "pre existing conditions" of RSV and Pneumonio, and then acquired measles while in the hospital. So they didn't die "of measles".

Even *if* that information were true (again - no source for it) -- STILL -- they would have died of the measles. Because a sick child in the hospital should not be getting measles - which could kill him in his weakened state. That's exactly why you vaccinate your kids - so if they are sick with other things, vaccine preventable diseases don't kill them.

This is what people don’t seem to understand.

What you don't understand is that pneumonia is deadly in and of its own. In fact it's very dangerous for you to not understand it because vaccination against respiratory viruses isn't going to guarantee protection from bacterial pneumonia that can kill you. You should always get an xray after you feel like you cannot get better fast enough from a bad respiratory virus case and not count on it to go away on its own. Antibiotics are effective and save lives if diagnosed early enough. Most people dying from flu die from pneumonia that gets too advanced. it's likely RSV that's created this complication . RSV vaccine is not mandatory.

Anyway, vast majority of kids are vaccinated, mine too and I am not worried. I am still trying to find out why all of you are so worried given that I am pretty sure your kids are vaccinated?

1. Children too young to be effectively vaccinated
- About 1.1% of the US population is <1 year old -- that's 3.74 million infants in the US
- https://www.americashealthrankings.org/explore/measures/pct_infant

2. People with genetic immunodeficiencies that prevent effective vaccination
- About 4.5/10,000 of the US population has a primary immunodeficiency (primary B-cell immunodeficiency, primary T-cell immunodeficiency, complement deficiency, or PMN deficiency) -- that's about 153,000 people in the US
- https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4009347/
-

3. People on chemotherapy and other chronic medical disease treatment(e.g., autoimmune disorders) that suppresses their immune resistance to measles
- If you really want a deep dive on this and it would make a difference to someone's beliefs, I will calculate, but it's certainly in the millions

4. A single dose of measles vaccine confers about 95% protection, and two doses gets it to "over 99%"
- Even if the vaccine effectiveness is 99.9%, that's not 100%
- When you are talking about large numbers of people, that adds up -- for 99.9% effectiveness, 0.1% of the US population is about 340,000 people across the US. If it's 99.5%, that would be about 1.7 million people across the US
- https://www.cdc.gov/pinkbook/hcp/table-of-contents/chapter-13-measles.html

You are talking about millions to tens of million vulnerable people across the country, even if every single person who can get vaccinated, does so. That is why herd immunity is important.

Don't forget about the risk to pregnant women

One of the active US cases is an infant who had traveled overseas and returned infected.

What country?

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c99n18zlzg3o.amp

No idea.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c99n18zlzg3o.amp

Health Secretary Robert F Kennedy Jr has shifted his stance on the US measles outbreak, now calling it "serious" after previously describing it as "not unusual".
The outbreak has sickened over 140 children in western Texas, while several other states also are battling cases.
Last week, Kennedy - who has spread misinformation about childhood vaccinations - faced a backlash from public health experts after he appeared to minimize the outbreak, which killed an unvaccinated six-year-old for the first time in a decade.

As of last week, the US reported a total of 164 measles cases in nine states, including Texas, neighbouring New Mexico, California and Georgia. Washington state reported its first case in an infant over the weekend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:18:01, vaccinated can spread the virus?
How so?

Not really.

https://academic.oup.com/jid/article-abstract/189/Supplement_1/S165/821757?redirectedFrom=fulltext

That is more about showing that asymptomatic do not really shed. Breakthrough cases can rarely occur in vaccinated individuals (and would be related to exposure to a symptomatic unvaccinated infected person), but even then if asymptomatic or barely symptomatic, meaningful/impactful transmission would be minimal.

[Anonymous]

Is the MMR vaccine a one and done if you received it as a child?

[Anonymous]

We should be warned which countries are spreading these diseases.