More skills based grading at madison hs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does this lower grades? Only being assessed on major assignments is college-like. Someone said one mistake gives you a B on a test. That’s the part that’s confusing. And won’t colleges be comparing kids within the same school?

In my kid’s class 1 wrong is a B. 2 wrong is a C. Wrong in can be a paper where something underlined should have been italicized. Done once is a B. It goes down from there.

So they’ve raised the bar to get an A?

I have several kids at madison. Yes, in my experience, much harder now. There is no reason a small, technical issue done once should result in a B.

There is only one reason, equitable grading and closing the gap.

How is raising the bar “closing the gap” or eQuItAbLe grading?

Because when the poor performing students do well, say a C or B on a single assignment it sticks as their final grade. System intentionally confusing and convoluted to allow desired results.

If a student does well then what’s the issue with them getting a B or C?

Still waiting to hear from PP: if a student does well (AKA knows the content) why it’s an issue for them to get a B or C?

Because no one understands your question. Are you asking what’s wrong with getting a 2.0 or 3.0? Having a kid who recently applied to college, I can tell you that you’re not getting into VT or any similar school with that type of gpa

Recap of convo:
Q: How is this “closing the gap”?
A: Poor performing students might do well and get a B or C
Q: why is this an issue?

?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know..I have posted on here a few times in favor of the system. Tried to explain the upsides and was shouted down. I am not the principal. I have a junior in APs in Madison and so far, the kids seem to understand the system fine and do well.

I can see why some of you don't care for it, but it is beyond willfully ignorant to yell that those of who do are shills or don't have kids or whatever.

And insisting that ALL or even most JMHS parents are frothing mad is wrong

+1

There's more than one person on this thread who thinks the negative reactions to SBG are over-stated; or at least not representative of everyone. The posters who hate SBG are unwilling to consider that possibility.

Plenty of kids are able to adjust to it. Also, as a parent, I don't get involved in knowing what the rubric is for each assignment. That's my kids' job. I give teachers enough respect to allow them to do their job (teaching and assessing), and I don't feel the need to micromanage what the teacher is doing or what my kids are getting for grades. We are o.k. with the outcomes. Grades are not controlling our household or mental health. It's freeing, really.

So maybe the micromanaging parents are the people who are So Furious! about this change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know..I have posted on here a few times in favor of the system. Tried to explain the upsides and was shouted down. I am not the principal. I have a junior in APs in Madison and so far, the kids seem to understand the system fine and do well.

I can see why some of you don't care for it, but it is beyond willfully ignorant to yell that those of who do are shills or don't have kids or whatever.

And insisting that ALL or even most JMHS parents are frothing mad is wrong

+1

There's more than one person on this thread who thinks the negative reactions to SBG are over-stated; or at least not representative of everyone. The posters who hate SBG are unwilling to consider that possibility.

Plenty of kids are able to adjust to it. Also, as a parent, I don't get involved in knowing what the rubric is for each assignment. That's my kids' job. I give teachers enough respect to allow them to do their job (teaching and assessing), and I don't feel the need to micromanage what the teacher is doing or what my kids are getting for grades. We are o.k. with the outcomes. Grades are not controlling our household or mental health. It's freeing, really.

But why make this change at all?

Based on what the HS has put out, the goal is to emphasize the progressive nature of learning, and de-emphasize the impact of one-and-done learning and grades. The message of the old grading system is that you are assessed on a skill/concept once and then you either get feedback (grade) that you learned it or you didn't, and the class moves on to the next topic. The message that teens get if they didn't do well on that test is that it's behind them and they missed their chance to learn it or show it, so just move on.

SBG's big picture is that students should have more than one chance to show that they learned something, and schools should incentivize continuing to try to master a skill/concept. Therefore, if they do show improvement on a skill at a later test, that effort and accomplishment should be rewarded (with the later grade being used to replace one earlier grade on the same skill).

I'm sure there will be someone who says "this isn't how it works irl" or "it's not fair to someone who learned it well the first time..." Etc.

I'm just answering the question of "why" a change was made (based on the materials the HS has provided).

I'll be the first to say this isn't how it works. Before retake were allowed. You could retake a unit. Now you can't. Now it's one and done. So the complete opposite of the goal.

Second. Homework used to be a way to get a grade for effort and for practice and be a source of study. If you did it all and got an 80 percent or better you got a 100 percent on your homework grade worth about 10 percent. In math there were even retake of the practice. Now homework counts for nothing and isn't graded so no feedback for the student. So if we are trying to have teens have more chances to demonstrate mastery and learning why would homework not be counted anymore?

And then the quizzes the same thing. They are graded now but then those grades go away leaving only the summarive. So again less chances to actually demonstrate mastery with a grade.

Then there is the removal of pluses and minuses. So now grades aren't really measuring anything with accuracy.

So the old system allowed multiple times for learning and practice and demonstrating skill and was more accurate on quizzes and summatives and gave more feedback to the student during the unit and even on the summaritives. Old system was a win win for SBG objectives. New system fail for SBG objectives.

Is this the SBG where your newer grade replaces your previous grade?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know..I have posted on here a few times in favor of the system. Tried to explain the upsides and was shouted down. I am not the principal. I have a junior in APs in Madison and so far, the kids seem to understand the system fine and do well.

I can see why some of you don't care for it, but it is beyond willfully ignorant to yell that those of who do are shills or don't have kids or whatever.

And insisting that ALL or even most JMHS parents are frothing mad is wrong

+1

There's more than one person on this thread who thinks the negative reactions to SBG are over-stated; or at least not representative of everyone. The posters who hate SBG are unwilling to consider that possibility.

Plenty of kids are able to adjust to it. Also, as a parent, I don't get involved in knowing what the rubric is for each assignment. That's my kids' job. I give teachers enough respect to allow them to do their job (teaching and assessing), and I don't feel the need to micromanage what the teacher is doing or what my kids are getting for grades. We are o.k. with the outcomes. Grades are not controlling our household or mental health. It's freeing, really.

But why make this change at all?

Based on what the HS has put out, the goal is to emphasize the progressive nature of learning, and de-emphasize the impact of one-and-done learning and grades. The message of the old grading system is that you are assessed on a skill/concept once and then you either get feedback (grade) that you learned it or you didn't, and the class moves on to the next topic. The message that teens get if they didn't do well on that test is that it's behind them and they missed their chance to learn it or show it, so just move on.

SBG's big picture is that students should have more than one chance to show that they learned something, and schools should incentivize continuing to try to master a skill/concept. Therefore, if they do show improvement on a skill at a later test, that effort and accomplishment should be rewarded (with the later grade being used to replace one earlier grade on the same skill).

I'm sure there will be someone who says "this isn't how it works irl" or "it's not fair to someone who learned it well the first time..." Etc.

I'm just answering the question of "why" a change was made (based on the materials the HS has provided).

I'll be the first to say this isn't how it works. Before retake were allowed. You could retake a unit. Now you can't. Now it's one and done. So the complete opposite of the goal.

Second. Homework used to be a way to get a grade for effort and for practice and be a source of study. If you did it all and got an 80 percent or better you got a 100 percent on your homework grade worth about 10 percent. In math there were even retake of the practice. Now homework counts for nothing and isn't graded so no feedback for the student. So if we are trying to have teens have more chances to demonstrate mastery and learning why would homework not be counted anymore?

And then the quizzes the same thing. They are graded now but then those grades go away leaving only the summarive. So again less chances to actually demonstrate mastery with a grade.

Then there is the removal of pluses and minuses. So now grades aren't really measuring anything with accuracy.

So the old system allowed multiple times for learning and practice and demonstrating skill and was more accurate on quizzes and summatives and gave more feedback to the student during the unit and even on the summaritives. Old system was a win win for SBG objectives. New system fail for SBG objectives.

Is this the SBG where your newer grade replaces your previous grade?

Yes. Replacing old grades is not the same as multiple practices. Sometimes it means growth like the child obtained a skill or practiced a lot. Other times it might mean more dedication to the task or it might mean the next test is easier. It's the same with sports. One week it might be that the person didn't prepare or did prepare. Another week they didn't have the skills and need to practice more or they just obtained a new skill or more confidence. Another week they may have an easy opponent and another week a more difficult opponent. There are many reasons why someone might fluctuate in points or grades. What makes no sense is replacing a grade or a sports point from the past and saying that constitutes learning more in the past. Nothing in life works this way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know..I have posted on here a few times in favor of the system. Tried to explain the upsides and was shouted down. I am not the principal. I have a junior in APs in Madison and so far, the kids seem to understand the system fine and do well.

I can see why some of you don't care for it, but it is beyond willfully ignorant to yell that those of who do are shills or don't have kids or whatever.

And insisting that ALL or even most JMHS parents are frothing mad is wrong

+1

There's more than one person on this thread who thinks the negative reactions to SBG are over-stated; or at least not representative of everyone. The posters who hate SBG are unwilling to consider that possibility.

Plenty of kids are able to adjust to it. Also, as a parent, I don't get involved in knowing what the rubric is for each assignment. That's my kids' job. I give teachers enough respect to allow them to do their job (teaching and assessing), and I don't feel the need to micromanage what the teacher is doing or what my kids are getting for grades. We are o.k. with the outcomes. Grades are not controlling our household or mental health. It's freeing, really.

So maybe the micromanaging parents are the people who are So Furious! about this change.

I think I care because I tend to be a person who values equity and fairness. So a system that disadvantages an entire high school in college admissions just irritates me. If this is extended to all of FCPS, I’d be fine with it. I just can’t stand that it is just a few schools in the county who are dealing with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know..I have posted on here a few times in favor of the system. Tried to explain the upsides and was shouted down. I am not the principal. I have a junior in APs in Madison and so far, the kids seem to understand the system fine and do well.

I can see why some of you don't care for it, but it is beyond willfully ignorant to yell that those of who do are shills or don't have kids or whatever.

And insisting that ALL or even most JMHS parents are frothing mad is wrong

+1

There's more than one person on this thread who thinks the negative reactions to SBG are over-stated; or at least not representative of everyone. The posters who hate SBG are unwilling to consider that possibility.

Plenty of kids are able to adjust to it. Also, as a parent, I don't get involved in knowing what the rubric is for each assignment. That's my kids' job. I give teachers enough respect to allow them to do their job (teaching and assessing), and I don't feel the need to micromanage what the teacher is doing or what my kids are getting for grades. We are o.k. with the outcomes. Grades are not controlling our household or mental health. It's freeing, really.

So maybe the micromanaging parents are the people who are So Furious! about this change.

You are saying nothing. Most parents arent so furious. They just dont want the change and see no benefit to it and in high school grades and classwork is a big deal. The classes are hard and so teachers teach less but have a lot more to teach students
There is more on the line to get right with each class. There is no positive to the system and SBG is supposed to be some sort of micromanage of admin to teacher to make sure SOLs are taught so at its core it's a type of micromanage of teachers but it doesn't even do that well. There is nothing that Madison can point to to say that SBG has helped disadvantaged or special needs students with AP tests and SOLs and its at best equal and at its worst harmful to general ed compared to the previous system. Still no positives to the system and no objective data to show any improvement that you can point to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know..I have posted on here a few times in favor of the system. Tried to explain the upsides and was shouted down. I am not the principal. I have a junior in APs in Madison and so far, the kids seem to understand the system fine and do well.

I can see why some of you don't care for it, but it is beyond willfully ignorant to yell that those of who do are shills or don't have kids or whatever.

And insisting that ALL or even most JMHS parents are frothing mad is wrong

+1

There's more than one person on this thread who thinks the negative reactions to SBG are over-stated; or at least not representative of everyone. The posters who hate SBG are unwilling to consider that possibility.

Plenty of kids are able to adjust to it. Also, as a parent, I don't get involved in knowing what the rubric is for each assignment. That's my kids' job. I give teachers enough respect to allow them to do their job (teaching and assessing), and I don't feel the need to micromanage what the teacher is doing or what my kids are getting for grades. We are o.k. with the outcomes. Grades are not controlling our household or mental health. It's freeing, really.

So maybe the micromanaging parents are the people who are So Furious! about this change.

I think I care because I tend to be a person who values equity and fairness. So a system that disadvantages an entire high school in college admissions just irritates me. If this is extended to all of FCPS, I’d be fine with it. I just can’t stand that it is just a few schools in the county who are dealing with this.

Well I wouldn't. The Wakefield High teachers advocated against it and said it would be detrimental and I believe them. I am not interested in bringing down an entire school system because some parent who says they aren't even affected by the program wants to kiss up to admin or something.

[Anonymous]

What evidence do you have that anyone has been So Furious anyway? People have left the system and taken their kids elsewhere. People have complained. There is a group studying SBG so even Reid understands there are issues. There is a discussion here. Teachers have put in complaints. This is a typical response to something unpopular and not over the top backlash with police presence. This is how people make a complaint about a change. For the most part it's been very respectful and it's administration that just isn't listening. Unless you have proof it's slander to say that anyone has displayed outlandish behavior. For all its unpopularity, people have been very civil.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does this lower grades? Only being assessed on major assignments is college-like. Someone said one mistake gives you a B on a test. That’s the part that’s confusing. And won’t colleges be comparing kids within the same school?

In my kid’s class 1 wrong is a B. 2 wrong is a C. Wrong in can be a paper where something underlined should have been italicized. Done once is a B. It goes down from there.

So they’ve raised the bar to get an A?

I have several kids at madison. Yes, in my experience, much harder now. There is no reason a small, technical issue done once should result in a B.

There is only one reason, equitable grading and closing the gap.

How is raising the bar “closing the gap” or eQuItAbLe grading?

Because when the poor performing students do well, say a C or B on a single assignment it sticks as their final grade. System intentionally confusing and convoluted to allow desired results.

If a student does well then what’s the issue with them getting a B or C?

Still waiting to hear from PP: if a student does well (AKA knows the content) why it’s an issue for them to get a B or C?

Because no one understands your question. Are you asking what’s wrong with getting a 2.0 or 3.0? Having a kid who recently applied to college, I can tell you that you’re not getting into VT or any similar school with that type of gpa

Recap of convo:
Q: How is this “closing the gap”?
A: Poor performing students might do well and get a B or C
Q: why is this an issue?

?

You’re an idiot. No one can answer your idiocy and expect you to not be an idiot. Here is a better recap:

Recap of convo:
A: Poor performing students might do well and get a B or C
Q: why is this an issue?

Kids who deserve As do not always get those deserved As at JMHS. Kids who deserve As at other FCPS locations, get As. And, kids at most FCPS locations all get to add buffers to grades, boosting up scores from B+ to an A, but not at JMHS.

This excludes those kids from better schools when that won’t happen to other FCPS students.

Yeah, why does this matter, indeed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the problem is that outside of the VA colleges the students will be compared by Country/ region. So my child who doesn’t get to take retakes at Madison will be compared to another student at McLean who does. As mentioned the practices are not similar to the assessments and are not graded so students don’t know what to expect or fully understand how much they know the content before they take the assessment. It really is pushing students to a B

Isn’t this being implemented across FCPS?

How does that help the current students?

The PP was saying students from other FCPS schools have an advantage over Madison students but this won’t be the case if it’s implemented everywhere.

Yes, I’m aware of what she was trying to say. The operative word is IF. This is unhelpful to any current students who have any any time with this garbage before it’s implemented elsewhere. All current students are disadvantaged.

Patently false. Current Madison students are not disadvantaged because colleges only compare Madison kids against other Madison kids. Not against any other kids from any other FCPS school. This is basic knowledge of the college application process. Comparing strength of course load among Madison kids is the primary factor.

I just don’t believe this. I don’t see how admissions officers have time to understand the inner workings of each fcps high school against another when the number of applications just keeps going up and up. It is a five second look at GPA and course load.

Exactly -- admissions officers don't try to understand the differences between all of the different high schools. That's an impossible task. They simply compare applications only against kids from the same high school as if they are in their own bubble. That's how differences between schools are normalized and removed as a variable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What evidence do you have that anyone has been So Furious anyway? People have left the system and taken their kids elsewhere. People have complained. There is a group studying SBG so even Reid understands there are issues. There is a discussion here. Teachers have put in complaints. This is a typical response to something unpopular and not over the top backlash with police presence. This is how people make a complaint about a change. For the most part it's been very respectful and it's administration that just isn't listening. Unless you have proof it's slander to say that anyone has displayed outlandish behavior. For all its unpopularity, people have been very civil.

what evidence? this thread is full of hysterics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know..I have posted on here a few times in favor of the system. Tried to explain the upsides and was shouted down. I am not the principal. I have a junior in APs in Madison and so far, the kids seem to understand the system fine and do well.

I can see why some of you don't care for it, but it is beyond willfully ignorant to yell that those of who do are shills or don't have kids or whatever.

And insisting that ALL or even most JMHS parents are frothing mad is wrong

+1

There's more than one person on this thread who thinks the negative reactions to SBG are over-stated; or at least not representative of everyone. The posters who hate SBG are unwilling to consider that possibility.

Plenty of kids are able to adjust to it. Also, as a parent, I don't get involved in knowing what the rubric is for each assignment. That's my kids' job. I give teachers enough respect to allow them to do their job (teaching and assessing), and I don't feel the need to micromanage what the teacher is doing or what my kids are getting for grades. We are o.k. with the outcomes. Grades are not controlling our household or mental health. It's freeing, really.

So maybe the micromanaging parents are the people who are So Furious! about this change.

I think I care because I tend to be a person who values equity and fairness. So a system that disadvantages an entire high school in college admissions just irritates me. If this is extended to all of FCPS, I’d be fine with it. I just can’t stand that it is just a few schools in the county who are dealing with this.

That’s bizarre. If you think Liz Calvert is a dope trying to curry favor with Michelle Reid by embracing a grading policy at Madison you think is a bad idea, you should try to get her to reconsider or to get her fired. Instead, you just want everyone to be as miserable as you are and then call it “equity.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know..I have posted on here a few times in favor of the system. Tried to explain the upsides and was shouted down. I am not the principal. I have a junior in APs in Madison and so far, the kids seem to understand the system fine and do well.

I can see why some of you don't care for it, but it is beyond willfully ignorant to yell that those of who do are shills or don't have kids or whatever.

And insisting that ALL or even most JMHS parents are frothing mad is wrong

I’m curious to hear more. We put our oldest in private school and are following to see what happens before our younger kids get to Madison. Do your kid’s teachers give feedback beyond an A, B, C etc and a generic rubric? Maybe it’s changed. More likely, there’s no consistency between teachers. We did not have a good experience last year and it’s more than the grade. My kid never got feedback on actual learning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does this lower grades? Only being assessed on major assignments is college-like. Someone said one mistake gives you a B on a test. That’s the part that’s confusing. And won’t colleges be comparing kids within the same school?

In my kid’s class 1 wrong is a B. 2 wrong is a C. Wrong in can be a paper where something underlined should have been italicized. Done once is a B. It goes down from there.

So they’ve raised the bar to get an A?

I have several kids at madison. Yes, in my experience, much harder now. There is no reason a small, technical issue done once should result in a B.

There is only one reason, equitable grading and closing the gap.

How is raising the bar “closing the gap” or eQuItAbLe grading?

Because when the poor performing students do well, say a C or B on a single assignment it sticks as their final grade. System intentionally confusing and convoluted to allow desired results.

If a student does well then what’s the issue with them getting a B or C?

Still waiting to hear from PP: if a student does well (AKA knows the content) why it’s an issue for them to get a B or C?

Because no one understands your question. Are you asking what’s wrong with getting a 2.0 or 3.0? Having a kid who recently applied to college, I can tell you that you’re not getting into VT or any similar school with that type of gpa

Recap of convo:
Q: How is this “closing the gap”?
A: Poor performing students might do well and get a B or C
Q: why is this an issue?

?

You’re an idiot. No one can answer your idiocy and expect you to not be an idiot. Here is a better recap:

Recap of convo:
A: Poor performing students might do well and get a B or C
Q: why is this an issue?

Kids who deserve As do not always get those deserved As at JMHS. Kids who deserve As at other FCPS locations, get As. And, kids at most FCPS locations all get to add buffers to grades, boosting up scores from B+ to an A, but not at JMHS.

This excludes those kids from better schools when that won’t happen to other FCPS students.

Yeah, why does this matter, indeed.

No need for name calling.

So you want buffers for your kid because they can't perform at the A level?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What evidence do you have that anyone has been So Furious anyway? People have left the system and taken their kids elsewhere. People have complained. There is a group studying SBG so even Reid understands there are issues. There is a discussion here. Teachers have put in complaints. This is a typical response to something unpopular and not over the top backlash with police presence. This is how people make a complaint about a change. For the most part it's been very respectful and it's administration that just isn't listening. Unless you have proof it's slander to say that anyone has displayed outlandish behavior. For all its unpopularity, people have been very civil.

what evidence? this thread is full of hysterics.

I think it's been a very measured discussion with a lot of details. Many details against. Few for. Where do you see hysterics? I also haven't seen hysterics at the school board or in the school. People don't like it at all but they have been very respectful. They shouldn't have had to do anything though. Fcps should have proved this system was well thought out and evidence based before implementing it. People are tired of their kids being guinea pigs for FCPSs latest change.