More skills based grading at madison hs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the problem is that outside of the VA colleges the students will be compared by Country/ region. So my child who doesn’t get to take retakes at Madison will be compared to another student at McLean who does. As mentioned the practices are not similar to the assessments and are not graded so students don’t know what to expect or fully understand how much they know the content before they take the assessment. It really is pushing students to a B

Isn’t this being implemented across FCPS?

How does that help the current students?

The PP was saying students from other FCPS schools have an advantage over Madison students but this won’t be the case if it’s implemented everywhere.

Yes, I’m aware of what she was trying to say. The operative word is IF. This is unhelpful to any current students who have any any time with this garbage before it’s implemented elsewhere. All current students are disadvantaged.

Patently false. Current Madison students are not disadvantaged because colleges only compare Madison kids against other Madison kids. Not against any other kids from any other FCPS school. This is basic knowledge of the college application process. Comparing strength of course load among Madison kids is the primary factor.

Maybe at a few schools this is partly correct. For the others a complete no. There is no benefit to this system. None. I'm tired of arguing all the possible negatives. There is nothing positive from a student's perspective

This. There is seemingly one person who fails to confirm her kids currently attend Madison who says it isn’t based on equity (goes ballistic if you say it does), it’s great because kids are graded only on what they know, and kids aren’t disadvantaged.

Meanwhile, jmhs students, parents and teacher say the exact opposite. We have to move on from arguing with her. You’re right.

[Anonymous]

Maybe the person arguing for it is the principal?

[Anonymous]

I don't know..I have posted on here a few times in favor of the system. Tried to explain the upsides and was shouted down. I am not the principal. I have a junior in APs in Madison and so far, the kids seem to understand the system fine and do well.

I can see why some of you don't care for it, but it is beyond willfully ignorant to yell that those of who do are shills or don't have kids or whatever.

And insisting that ALL or even most JMHS parents are frothing mad is wrong

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know..I have posted on here a few times in favor of the system. Tried to explain the upsides and was shouted down. I am not the principal. I have a junior in APs in Madison and so far, the kids seem to understand the system fine and do well.

I can see why some of you don't care for it, but it is beyond willfully ignorant to yell that those of who do are shills or don't have kids or whatever.

And insisting that ALL or even most JMHS parents are frothing mad is wrong

So what upside do you see for your junior and what do they see? Tell us the positives since they were with the old system at least for a year.

[Anonymous]

^ His study habits have gotten way better; he realizes now he needs to more than the bare minimum (or only what is required); and he is actually mastering the material before moving on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does this lower grades? Only being assessed on major assignments is college-like. Someone said one mistake gives you a B on a test. That’s the part that’s confusing. And won’t colleges be comparing kids within the same school?

In my kid’s class 1 wrong is a B. 2 wrong is a C. Wrong in can be a paper where something underlined should have been italicized. Done once is a B. It goes down from there.

So they’ve raised the bar to get an A?

I have several kids at madison. Yes, in my experience, much harder now. There is no reason a small, technical issue done once should result in a B.

There is only one reason, equitable grading and closing the gap.

How is raising the bar “closing the gap” or eQuItAbLe grading?

Because when the poor performing students do well, say a C or B on a single assignment it sticks as their final grade. System intentionally confusing and convoluted to allow desired results.

If a student does well then what’s the issue with them getting a B or C?

Still waiting to hear from PP: if a student does well (AKA knows the content) why it’s an issue for them to get a B or C?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does this lower grades? Only being assessed on major assignments is college-like. Someone said one mistake gives you a B on a test. That’s the part that’s confusing. And won’t colleges be comparing kids within the same school?

In my kid’s class 1 wrong is a B. 2 wrong is a C. Wrong in can be a paper where something underlined should have been italicized. Done once is a B. It goes down from there.

So they’ve raised the bar to get an A?

I think with the broad rubrics, it’s more subjective than ever before. I wouldn’t call it raising the bar. If anything, expectations are lower.

If that were true wouldn’t it be easier to get an A?

And waiting to hear on this: if it’s lowering the bar shouldn’t it be easier to get a A?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does this lower grades? Only being assessed on major assignments is college-like. Someone said one mistake gives you a B on a test. That’s the part that’s confusing. And won’t colleges be comparing kids within the same school?

In my kid’s class 1 wrong is a B. 2 wrong is a C. Wrong in can be a paper where something underlined should have been italicized. Done once is a B. It goes down from there.

So they’ve raised the bar to get an A?

I have several kids at madison. Yes, in my experience, much harder now. There is no reason a small, technical issue done once should result in a B.

There is only one reason, equitable grading and closing the gap.

How is raising the bar “closing the gap” or eQuItAbLe grading?

Because when the poor performing students do well, say a C or B on a single assignment it sticks as their final grade. System intentionally confusing and convoluted to allow desired results.

If a student does well then what’s the issue with them getting a B or C?

Still waiting to hear from PP: if a student does well (AKA knows the content) why it’s an issue for them to get a B or C?

Because no one understands your question. Are you asking what’s wrong with getting a 2.0 or 3.0? Having a kid who recently applied to college, I can tell you that you’re not getting into VT or any similar school with that type of gpa

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know..I have posted on here a few times in favor of the system. Tried to explain the upsides and was shouted down. I am not the principal. I have a junior in APs in Madison and so far, the kids seem to understand the system fine and do well.

I can see why some of you don't care for it, but it is beyond willfully ignorant to yell that those of who do are shills or don't have kids or whatever.

And insisting that ALL or even most JMHS parents are frothing mad is wrong

+1

There's more than one person on this thread who thinks the negative reactions to SBG are over-stated; or at least not representative of everyone. The posters who hate SBG are unwilling to consider that possibility.

Plenty of kids are able to adjust to it. Also, as a parent, I don't get involved in knowing what the rubric is for each assignment. That's my kids' job. I give teachers enough respect to allow them to do their job (teaching and assessing), and I don't feel the need to micromanage what the teacher is doing or what my kids are getting for grades. We are o.k. with the outcomes. Grades are not controlling our household or mental health. It's freeing, really.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the problem is that outside of the VA colleges the students will be compared by Country/ region. So my child who doesn’t get to take retakes at Madison will be compared to another student at McLean who does. As mentioned the practices are not similar to the assessments and are not graded so students don’t know what to expect or fully understand how much they know the content before they take the assessment. It really is pushing students to a B

Isn’t this being implemented across FCPS?

How does that help the current students?

The PP was saying students from other FCPS schools have an advantage over Madison students but this won’t be the case if it’s implemented everywhere.

Yes, I’m aware of what she was trying to say. The operative word is IF. This is unhelpful to any current students who have any any time with this garbage before it’s implemented elsewhere. All current students are disadvantaged.

Patently false. Current Madison students are not disadvantaged because colleges only compare Madison kids against other Madison kids. Not against any other kids from any other FCPS school. This is basic knowledge of the college application process. Comparing strength of course load among Madison kids is the primary factor.

Colleges like to promote their entry class average GPA and if the Madison GPAs are lower they are less likely to be admitted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know..I have posted on here a few times in favor of the system. Tried to explain the upsides and was shouted down. I am not the principal. I have a junior in APs in Madison and so far, the kids seem to understand the system fine and do well.

I can see why some of you don't care for it, but it is beyond willfully ignorant to yell that those of who do are shills or don't have kids or whatever.

And insisting that ALL or even most JMHS parents are frothing mad is wrong

+1

There's more than one person on this thread who thinks the negative reactions to SBG are over-stated; or at least not representative of everyone. The posters who hate SBG are unwilling to consider that possibility.

Plenty of kids are able to adjust to it. Also, as a parent, I don't get involved in knowing what the rubric is for each assignment. That's my kids' job. I give teachers enough respect to allow them to do their job (teaching and assessing), and I don't feel the need to micromanage what the teacher is doing or what my kids are getting for grades. We are o.k. with the outcomes. Grades are not controlling our household or mental health. It's freeing, really.

But why make this change at all?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know..I have posted on here a few times in favor of the system. Tried to explain the upsides and was shouted down. I am not the principal. I have a junior in APs in Madison and so far, the kids seem to understand the system fine and do well.

I can see why some of you don't care for it, but it is beyond willfully ignorant to yell that those of who do are shills or don't have kids or whatever.

And insisting that ALL or even most JMHS parents are frothing mad is wrong

+1

There's more than one person on this thread who thinks the negative reactions to SBG are over-stated; or at least not representative of everyone. The posters who hate SBG are unwilling to consider that possibility.

Plenty of kids are able to adjust to it. Also, as a parent, I don't get involved in knowing what the rubric is for each assignment. That's my kids' job. I give teachers enough respect to allow them to do their job (teaching and assessing), and I don't feel the need to micromanage what the teacher is doing or what my kids are getting for grades. We are o.k. with the outcomes. Grades are not controlling our household or mental health. It's freeing, really.

But why make this change at all?

Based on what the HS has put out, the goal is to emphasize the progressive nature of learning, and de-emphasize the impact of one-and-done learning and grades. The message of the old grading system is that you are assessed on a skill/concept once and then you either get feedback (grade) that you learned it or you didn't, and the class moves on to the next topic. The message that teens get if they didn't do well on that test is that it's behind them and they missed their chance to learn it or show it, so just move on.

SBG's big picture is that students should have more than one chance to show that they learned something, and schools should incentivize continuing to try to master a skill/concept. Therefore, if they do show improvement on a skill at a later test, that effort and accomplishment should be rewarded (with the later grade being used to replace one earlier grade on the same skill).

I'm sure there will be someone who says "this isn't how it works irl" or "it's not fair to someone who learned it well the first time..." Etc.

I'm just answering the question of "why" a change was made (based on the materials the HS has provided).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know..I have posted on here a few times in favor of the system. Tried to explain the upsides and was shouted down. I am not the principal. I have a junior in APs in Madison and so far, the kids seem to understand the system fine and do well.

I can see why some of you don't care for it, but it is beyond willfully ignorant to yell that those of who do are shills or don't have kids or whatever.

And insisting that ALL or even most JMHS parents are frothing mad is wrong

+1

There's more than one person on this thread who thinks the negative reactions to SBG are over-stated; or at least not representative of everyone. The posters who hate SBG are unwilling to consider that possibility.

Plenty of kids are able to adjust to it. Also, as a parent, I don't get involved in knowing what the rubric is for each assignment. That's my kids' job. I give teachers enough respect to allow them to do their job (teaching and assessing), and I don't feel the need to micromanage what the teacher is doing or what my kids are getting for grades. We are o.k. with the outcomes. Grades are not controlling our household or mental health. It's freeing, really.

But why make this change at all?

Exactly. No one can point to an actual positive of the program. It's freeing not to worry about grades and learning is a goal of school? These aren't school goals. Maybe for a parent or student that doesn't care about school that much and is more into something like football where I'm sure then they care about metrics. I bet football parents care very much about their winning record so people like that can't say that grades and learning shouldnt matter when its a huge sports school that people are extremely competitive with on sports and even other activities like band and orchestra. It's not a reason to overhaul school grading when the primary purpose of the school is education. There are no good reasons to implement this system. No one has said a single positive to kids actually learning more or achieving more because of it. There are no records of kids doing better on SOLs because of it. Many negatives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the problem is that outside of the VA colleges the students will be compared by Country/ region. So my child who doesn’t get to take retakes at Madison will be compared to another student at McLean who does. As mentioned the practices are not similar to the assessments and are not graded so students don’t know what to expect or fully understand how much they know the content before they take the assessment. It really is pushing students to a B

Isn’t this being implemented across FCPS?

How does that help the current students?

The PP was saying students from other FCPS schools have an advantage over Madison students but this won’t be the case if it’s implemented everywhere.

Yes, I’m aware of what she was trying to say. The operative word is IF. This is unhelpful to any current students who have any any time with this garbage before it’s implemented elsewhere. All current students are disadvantaged.

Patently false. Current Madison students are not disadvantaged because colleges only compare Madison kids against other Madison kids. Not against any other kids from any other FCPS school. This is basic knowledge of the college application process. Comparing strength of course load among Madison kids is the primary factor.

I just don’t believe this. I don’t see how admissions officers have time to understand the inner workings of each fcps high school against another when the number of applications just keeps going up and up. It is a five second look at GPA and course load.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know..I have posted on here a few times in favor of the system. Tried to explain the upsides and was shouted down. I am not the principal. I have a junior in APs in Madison and so far, the kids seem to understand the system fine and do well.

I can see why some of you don't care for it, but it is beyond willfully ignorant to yell that those of who do are shills or don't have kids or whatever.

And insisting that ALL or even most JMHS parents are frothing mad is wrong

+1

There's more than one person on this thread who thinks the negative reactions to SBG are over-stated; or at least not representative of everyone. The posters who hate SBG are unwilling to consider that possibility.

Plenty of kids are able to adjust to it. Also, as a parent, I don't get involved in knowing what the rubric is for each assignment. That's my kids' job. I give teachers enough respect to allow them to do their job (teaching and assessing), and I don't feel the need to micromanage what the teacher is doing or what my kids are getting for grades. We are o.k. with the outcomes. Grades are not controlling our household or mental health. It's freeing, really.

But why make this change at all?

Based on what the HS has put out, the goal is to emphasize the progressive nature of learning, and de-emphasize the impact of one-and-done learning and grades. The message of the old grading system is that you are assessed on a skill/concept once and then you either get feedback (grade) that you learned it or you didn't, and the class moves on to the next topic. The message that teens get if they didn't do well on that test is that it's behind them and they missed their chance to learn it or show it, so just move on.

SBG's big picture is that students should have more than one chance to show that they learned something, and schools should incentivize continuing to try to master a skill/concept. Therefore, if they do show improvement on a skill at a later test, that effort and accomplishment should be rewarded (with the later grade being used to replace one earlier grade on the same skill).

I'm sure there will be someone who says "this isn't how it works irl" or "it's not fair to someone who learned it well the first time..." Etc.

I'm just answering the question of "why" a change was made (based on the materials the HS has provided).

I'll be the first to say this isn't how it works. Before retake were allowed. You could retake a unit. Now you can't. Now it's one and done. So the complete opposite of the goal.

Second. Homework used to be a way to get a grade for effort and for practice and be a source of study. If you did it all and got an 80 percent or better you got a 100 percent on your homework grade worth about 10 percent. In math there were even retake of the practice. Now homework counts for nothing and isn't graded so no feedback for the student. So if we are trying to have teens have more chances to demonstrate mastery and learning why would homework not be counted anymore?

And then the quizzes the same thing. They are graded now but then those grades go away leaving only the summarive. So again less chances to actually demonstrate mastery with a grade.

Then there is the removal of pluses and minuses. So now grades aren't really measuring anything with accuracy.

So the old system allowed multiple times for learning and practice and demonstrating skill and was more accurate on quizzes and summatives and gave more feedback to the student during the unit and even on the summaritives. Old system was a win win for SBG objectives. New system fail for SBG objectives.