Thomas Jefferson High School drops to 5th in latest US News ranking

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What really happened? How much of this is FCPS' own doing?

https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/thomas-jefferson-high-school-drops-to-5th-in-latest-us-news-ranking/article_b4ce2886-4692-11ee-a98b-4b0dbcb840c2.html

Once the admissions process was corrupted by all the prep centers making average kids appear gifted it was just a matter of time.

Stop using "prep centers" as the scapegoat.
If prep centers are the real problem, the solution will be simple.
We could just provide free prep services for any URMs who are interested.
Then, the TJ student population will resemble the US population.

I'm just curious - because I delight in giving people enough rope to hang themselves - what do YOU think the real problem is?

The problem is we can't simply spend $20k on Cuire classes to guarantee our children entry like the good old days. You have to actually be talented now. It's so crazy and unfair!

Either you are paid by Curie or a fool to repeatedly mention their name on these forums and unaware of free publicity it provides them

Go to prep class still need to study and practice. Why do prep if we can just change the admission process to get it?
Why pay back the student loan if other taxpayers pay for it?
Why work if the welfare check is coming?
Why buy if we can steal?

What point were you trying to make with this incoherent word salad?

Some people just want the prestige of being students of TJ. They do not really want to study hard and learn advanced STEM education. They don't even want to prepare for the admission exams.

And how do you know how hard they work?

Seriously - how do you know what those kids do when they’re at home?

If they can get in by merit, they don't need this new admission process that favors them unethically.

DP, but the old system favored those who could pay for prep classes and game the system. Not by merit.
Now I see why you protest.

There are many admitted students who did not have prep classes under the old system.
The new system just unfairly hurt this group of students.

I don't have any issue with banning all the prep centers.

A merit-based system should be used.

Waiiiiiit a minute.

How does the new process unfairly hurt kids who were admitted by the old system without prep? They got into the school, didn’t they? It’s not like they were retroactively kicked out of the school after the admissions process changed.

Explain it to me like I’m five.

Because they got into the school under the old system without prep. Now the reputation of the school is falling (and everyone is following this nationwide). So they, as TJ students, won't get the national awards and/or college placements they might have under the old system where TJ was no. 1 and everyone knew it. It's like watching the rearrangement of deck chairs on the Titanic.

Oh no just the opposite. It's those kids admitted from test buying under the old system that have dragged down TJ. The new crop of admittees are head and shoulders above the older generation.

Self-affirmation bias.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What really happened? How much of this is FCPS' own doing?

https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/thomas-jefferson-high-school-drops-to-5th-in-latest-us-news-ranking/article_b4ce2886-4692-11ee-a98b-4b0dbcb840c2.html

Once the admissions process was corrupted by all the prep centers making average kids appear gifted it was just a matter of time.

Stop using "prep centers" as the scapegoat.
If prep centers are the real problem, the solution will be simple.
We could just provide free prep services for any URMs who are interested.
Then, the TJ student population will resemble the US population.

I'm just curious - because I delight in giving people enough rope to hang themselves - what do YOU think the real problem is?

The problem is we can't simply spend $20k on Cuire classes to guarantee our children entry like the good old days. You have to actually be talented now. It's so crazy and unfair!

Either you are paid by Curie or a fool to repeatedly mention their name on these forums and unaware of free publicity it provides them

Go to prep class still need to study and practice. Why do prep if we can just change the admission process to get it?
Why pay back the student loan if other taxpayers pay for it?
Why work if the welfare check is coming?
Why buy if we can steal?

What point were you trying to make with this incoherent word salad?

Some people just want the prestige of being students of TJ. They do not really want to study hard and learn advanced STEM education. They don't even want to prepare for the admission exams.

And how do you know how hard they work?

Seriously - how do you know what those kids do when they’re at home?

If they can get in by merit, they don't need this new admission process that favors them unethically.

DP, but the old system favored those who could pay for prep classes and game the system. Not by merit.
Now I see why you protest.

There are many admitted students who did not have prep classes under the old system.
The new system just unfairly hurt this group of students.

I don't have any issue with banning all the prep centers.

A merit-based system should be used.

Waiiiiiit a minute.

How does the new process unfairly hurt kids who were admitted by the old system without prep? They got into the school, didn’t they? It’s not like they were retroactively kicked out of the school after the admissions process changed.

Explain it to me like I’m five.

Because they got into the school under the old system without prep. Now the reputation of the school is falling (and everyone is following this nationwide). So they, as TJ students, won't get the national awards and/or college placements they might have under the old system where TJ was no. 1 and everyone knew it. It's like watching the rearrangement of deck chairs on the Titanic.

Oh no just the opposite. It's those kids admitted from test buying under the old system that have dragged down TJ. The new crop of admittees are head and shoulders above the older generation.

True, the new process should make this clear in a couple of years, but the pro-prep posters will say anything to get back their easily gameable selection process. It was easier to predict outcomes when you could simply buy test answers.

[Anonymous]

What are you talking about?
Kids from some middle schools are much dumber.

Good lord, this board is unhinged.

[Anonymous]

We paid attention to the TJ admission process this year because my 9th grader had a number of friends who he went through AAP with who applied. Having learned alongside the kids since 3rd grade, my son had a pretty good sense of who is academically strong and who struggles. The results seemed, at best, random, and at worst upside down with the weaker kids more likely to get in. The results didn't follow along racial lines -- brilliant accomplished math-focused kid from Ethiopia was waitlisted and the white kid who was the last one to get concepts in math did. It struck me that TJ is becoming a lottery school with a GPA cutoff. It will still be somewhat superior due to the prerequisites but plenty of kids meet those. My prediction is it slowly sinks, and then, on "equity" grounds, the school district will kill AAP and eliminate the TJ admission prerequisites.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We paid attention to the TJ admission process this year because my 9th grader had a number of friends who he went through AAP with who applied. Having learned alongside the kids since 3rd grade, my son had a pretty good sense of who is academically strong and who struggles. The results seemed, at best, random, and at worst upside down with the weaker kids more likely to get in. The results didn't follow along racial lines -- brilliant accomplished math-focused kid from Ethiopia was waitlisted and the white kid who was the last one to get concepts in math did. It struck me that TJ is becoming a lottery school with a GPA cutoff. It will still be somewhat superior due to the prerequisites but plenty of kids meet those. My prediction is it slowly sinks, and then, on "equity" grounds, the school district will kill AAP and eliminate the TJ admission prerequisites.

That's weird at our school all the top kids were selected, but I think most parents don't really know what's going on.

[Anonymous]

Wow close to 38% (165 students from class of 2024) qualified as National Merit semifinalists. Around 63% of the FCPS semifinalist are from TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What really happened? How much of this is FCPS' own doing?

https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/thomas-jefferson-high-school-drops-to-5th-in-latest-us-news-ranking/article_b4ce2886-4692-11ee-a98b-4b0dbcb840c2.html

Once the admissions process was corrupted by all the prep centers making average kids appear gifted it was just a matter of time.

Stop using "prep centers" as the scapegoat.
If prep centers are the real problem, the solution will be simple.
We could just provide free prep services for any URMs who are interested.
Then, the TJ student population will resemble the US population.

I'm just curious - because I delight in giving people enough rope to hang themselves - what do YOU think the real problem is?

The problem is we can't simply spend $20k on Cuire classes to guarantee our children entry like the good old days. You have to actually be talented now. It's so crazy and unfair!

Either you are paid by Curie or a fool to repeatedly mention their name on these forums and unaware of free publicity it provides them

Go to prep class still need to study and practice. Why do prep if we can just change the admission process to get it?
Why pay back the student loan if other taxpayers pay for it?
Why work if the welfare check is coming?
Why buy if we can steal?

What point were you trying to make with this incoherent word salad?

Some people just want the prestige of being students of TJ. They do not really want to study hard and learn advanced STEM education. They don't even want to prepare for the admission exams.

And how do you know how hard they work?

Seriously - how do you know what those kids do when they’re at home?

If they can get in by merit, they don't need this new admission process that favors them unethically.

DP, but the old system favored those who could pay for prep classes and game the system. Not by merit.
Now I see why you protest.

There are many admitted students who did not have prep classes under the old system.
The new system just unfairly hurt this group of students.

I don't have any issue with banning all the prep centers.

A merit-based system should be used.

Waiiiiiit a minute.

How does the new process unfairly hurt kids who were admitted by the old system without prep? They got into the school, didn’t they? It’s not like they were retroactively kicked out of the school after the admissions process changed.

Explain it to me like I’m five.

Because they got into the school under the old system without prep. Now the reputation of the school is falling (and everyone is following this nationwide). So they, as TJ students, won't get the national awards and/or college placements they might have under the old system where TJ was no. 1 and everyone knew it. It's like watching the rearrangement of deck chairs on the Titanic.

Oh no just the opposite. It's those kids admitted from test buying under the old system that have dragged down TJ. The new crop of admittees are head and shoulders above the older generation.

Everyone knew the students who were only able to get in because of test buying were bound to impact the school's standing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What really happened? How much of this is FCPS' own doing?

https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/thomas-jefferson-high-school-drops-to-5th-in-latest-us-news-ranking/article_b4ce2886-4692-11ee-a98b-4b0dbcb840c2.html

Once the admissions process was corrupted by all the prep centers making average kids appear gifted it was just a matter of time.

Stop using "prep centers" as the scapegoat.
If prep centers are the real problem, the solution will be simple.
We could just provide free prep services for any URMs who are interested.
Then, the TJ student population will resemble the US population.

I'm just curious - because I delight in giving people enough rope to hang themselves - what do YOU think the real problem is?

The problem is we can't simply spend $20k on Cuire classes to guarantee our children entry like the good old days. You have to actually be talented now. It's so crazy and unfair!

Either you are paid by Curie or a fool to repeatedly mention their name on these forums and unaware of free publicity it provides them

Go to prep class still need to study and practice. Why do prep if we can just change the admission process to get it?
Why pay back the student loan if other taxpayers pay for it?
Why work if the welfare check is coming?
Why buy if we can steal?

What point were you trying to make with this incoherent word salad?

Some people just want the prestige of being students of TJ. They do not really want to study hard and learn advanced STEM education. They don't even want to prepare for the admission exams.

And how do you know how hard they work?

Seriously - how do you know what those kids do when they’re at home?

If they can get in by merit, they don't need this new admission process that favors them unethically.

DP, but the old system favored those who could pay for prep classes and game the system. Not by merit.
Now I see why you protest.

There are many admitted students who did not have prep classes under the old system.
The new system just unfairly hurt this group of students.

I don't have any issue with banning all the prep centers.

A merit-based system should be used.

Waiiiiiit a minute.

How does the new process unfairly hurt kids who were admitted by the old system without prep? They got into the school, didn’t they? It’s not like they were retroactively kicked out of the school after the admissions process changed.

Explain it to me like I’m five.

Because they got into the school under the old system without prep. Now the reputation of the school is falling (and everyone is following this nationwide). So they, as TJ students, won't get the national awards and/or college placements they might have under the old system where TJ was no. 1 and everyone knew it. It's like watching the rearrangement of deck chairs on the Titanic.

Oh no just the opposite. It's those kids admitted from test buying under the old system that have dragged down TJ. The new crop of admittees are head and shoulders above the older generation.

Everyone knew the students who were only able to get in because of test buying were bound to impact the school's standing.

The ranking was based on test scores from classes admitted under the prior system. Are we back to the theory that the board invented a time machine to install the current system before those tests were taken?

[Anonymous]

The results seemed, at best, random, and at worst upside down with the weaker kids more likely to get in. The results didn't follow along racial lines -- brilliant accomplished math-focused kid from Ethiopia was waitlisted and the white kid who was the last one to get concepts in math did.

At my daughter's best friend's middle school, a kid who was off the charts in math acceleration and had already published some scientific paper from a summer internship (seriously) did not get in. My daughter's friend did not and is now taking AP precalculus and AP statistics as a freshman in her base high school. Much weaker kids did get in. The results seemed truly random.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow close to 38% (165 students from class of 2024) qualified as National Merit semifinalists. Around 63% of the FCPS semifinalist are from TJ.

As a non TJ parent, what’s surprising to me is that why not all of them or majority qualify in as NMSF, with the sort of brainpower TJ has it’s disappointing that only 38% qualified.

Are majority kids there just average?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow close to 38% (165 students from class of 2024) qualified as National Merit semifinalists. Around 63% of the FCPS semifinalist are from TJ.

As a non TJ parent, what’s surprising to me is that why not all of them or majority qualify in as NMSF, with the sort of brainpower TJ has it’s disappointing that only 38% qualified.

Are majority kids there just average?

165 is a very strong number for TJ historically. The number is usually in the 120-140 range.

You're talking about being in the absolute elite among PSAT test takers. I would bet you have a total of maybe 20-30 in the rest of FCPS (perhaps the nation's strongest overall school district) combine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow close to 38% (165 students from class of 2024) qualified as National Merit semifinalists. Around 63% of the FCPS semifinalist are from TJ.

As a non TJ parent, what’s surprising to me is that why not all of them or majority qualify in as NMSF, with the sort of brainpower TJ has it’s disappointing that only 38% qualified.

Are majority kids there just average?

165 is a very strong number for TJ historically. The number is usually in the 120-140 range.

You're talking about being in the absolute elite among PSAT test takers. I would bet you have a total of maybe 20-30 in the rest of FCPS (perhaps the nation's strongest overall school district) combine.

It’s public information. 165 at TJ and 99 spread out at 14 other FCPS high schools, with McLean, Oakton, Chantilly, and Langley having the most of the non-magnet schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow close to 38% (165 students from class of 2024) qualified as National Merit semifinalists. Around 63% of the FCPS semifinalist are from TJ.

As a non TJ parent, what’s surprising to me is that why not all of them or majority qualify in as NMSF, with the sort of brainpower TJ has it’s disappointing that only 38% qualified.

Are majority kids there just average?

If it were only Math most likely all of the class of 2024 would be qualified. Math is easy and most would have scored perfect (it would be interesting to see that stats, if available). The language component is counted twice. I think most of the kids strong in STEM but relatively weaker in language (reading, and writing) will be impacted.

The Selection Index score is calculated by doubling the sum of the Reading, Writing and Language, and Math Test scores.
For example, a Reading score of 23, a Writing and Language score of 20, and a Math score of 26.5 would result in a
Selection Index score of 139, i.e., 2(23+20+26.5).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow close to 38% (165 students from class of 2024) qualified as National Merit semifinalists. Around 63% of the FCPS semifinalist are from TJ.

As a non TJ parent, what’s surprising to me is that why not all of them or majority qualify in as NMSF, with the sort of brainpower TJ has it’s disappointing that only 38% qualified.

Are majority kids there just average?

165 is a very strong number for TJ historically. The number is usually in the 120-140 range.

You're talking about being in the absolute elite among PSAT test takers. I would bet you have a total of maybe 20-30 in the rest of FCPS (perhaps the nation's strongest overall school district) combine.

It’s public information. 165 at TJ and 99 spread out at 14 other FCPS high schools, with McLean, Oakton, Chantilly, and Langley having the most of the non-magnet schools.

That's a PHENOMENAL number for the rest of FCPS. Bad news for those who would argue that COVID was devastating in terms of learning loss in this area - sounds like we did a LOT better than everyone else!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow close to 38% (165 students from class of 2024) qualified as National Merit semifinalists. Around 63% of the FCPS semifinalist are from TJ.

As a non TJ parent, what’s surprising to me is that why not all of them or majority qualify in as NMSF, with the sort of brainpower TJ has it’s disappointing that only 38% qualified.

Are majority kids there just average?

165 is a very strong number for TJ historically. The number is usually in the 120-140 range.

You're talking about being in the absolute elite among PSAT test takers. I would bet you have a total of maybe 20-30 in the rest of FCPS (perhaps the nation's strongest overall school district) combine.

It’s public information. 165 at TJ and 99 spread out at 14 other FCPS high schools, with McLean, Oakton, Chantilly, and Langley having the most of the non-magnet schools.

That's a PHENOMENAL number for the rest of FCPS. Bad news for those who would argue that COVID was devastating in terms of learning loss in this area - sounds like we did a LOT better than everyone else!

It's because in VA you only needed a score of 219 to be NMS this year.