SCOTUS outlaws race as college admissions factor

[Anonymous]

So we are back to “separate but equal” fiction. If moderate income Black parents want their kids to go to top colleges, they just need to do what other parents do: live in wealthy neighborhoods that that they can’t afford and don’t want them, send their kids to expensive prep schools they can’t afford and only want them if they are elite athletes, and hire expensive test tutors, private sports coaches, and essay ghost writers they can’t afford to build a deceptive application.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a question.

Why is it that it is assumed that Latinos and Blacks can’t test high in the SATs or APs because they don’t have privilege and that Asian somehow have that privilege? Or is it that we assume that Black people and Hispanic people aren’t smart enough because of their “culture?”

As an Asian person, I babysat my baby sister and practiced the SAT test from books I got from the library. The more I practiced, the better I got. I eventually got a 1500.

My parents didn’t take me to the library. This was the high school library. I did this because I knew the test was important and if I didn’t do well, it would be a metric against me. I stayed up until midnight, when my parents got home to make sure they got home ok. They hated my lack of sleep but I was always worried.

Please explain, how if I could do this, without assistance from my parents, while babysitting my baby sister while my parents worked their second job, (fyi- my HHI at the time was under 50k) living in a one bedroom apartment in Catonsville MD, how I am more privileged.

Not all Asians have private tutors. But the books are available to every kid that wanted them (and there were always several copies around).

And fyi- I worked through college and had a bunch of debt. But it was still worth it.

I am going to argue that isn’t privilege. It’s because we don’t tell them that it’s not just a dream- that it can be reality if they work for it.
I am going to argue that they are not motivated to even to apply because of financial limits that prevent them from dreaming of it. And I think that is the biggest issue at hand.

We have to encourage people to let them know they can do it. We have Pell grants and so many other options in the military and the DOD based on financial need.

I get that systemic racism is part of the privilege I have benefited from. But is the application rates of Hispanics and blacks even representative of the population? Isn’t part of it the fact that we have such a cultural divide that we cannot see that we need to tell them it’s not just possible- but an expectation?

And for the record: I do want Blacks and Hispanics in our colleges. Representation matters but so does acceptance and love and compassion. But I absolutely hate the idea that tests and grades are reflective of privilege. I don’t think that’s the whole story and I think that’s why so many people (60% of Dems) are against affirmative action

Asians have the privilege of having parents who care about their education.

I was just about to respond with the same statement. I am black. My I grew up in a one parent household. My mother DID care about my education and pushed me. But she also had to work two jobs that totaled 16 hours hours a day. She could never look at my homework or really have in-depth conversation with me about education. Also, her education only went to a certain point. She likely would not have been able to help anyway. She didn't have money to send me to prep schools. But I did make my way to the library and checked out ACT prep books. But I didn't understand any of the math because my inner-city education failed me. We had a HORRIBLE math curriculum and HORRIBLE teachers. My report cards in high school were 4 A's; 1 B+ and 1 D. The D was always in math. I went to after school programs and took advantage of free tutoring. None of it worked because nobody could explain math in a non-abstract way. It wasn't until GRADUATE SCHOOL that I learned how to do Algebra. That is mega embarrassing! I graduated both undergrad and grad school with 3.3 and 3.6 GPA respectively. Because I knew testing put me at a huge disadvantage, I made sure my non-math grades were As and I took on leadership roles in school activities and community service projects. I knew that would be the only way to convince someone to take a chance on me and know that I'm not a dummy. How did I know to put in that extra work? because I had a caring mother and a few school teachers. There were times when I wanted to drop out of school to get a job to help my mother. But all she would say is "no. stay focused in those books."

But I'm here to tell you that sooooooo many black households (when I was growing up in the 80s/90s) did not have parents and close relatives that care. Sure, everyone wants their children to do better than them. but if you don't know how to make that happen, what guidance are you going to give? Also, many black households are trying to get by economically. Most of the kids in my high school had to work 20 hours a week to supplement their parents income. It's all a distraction and a mental stressor. I personally think high school kids should have a small part time job, but it shouldn't be out of pressure to help your parents feed you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Supreme Court DID NOT strike down Affirmative Action

Admission preferences for legacies, donors, employee families and special recommendations are still allowed

The Court struck down Affirmative Action For everyone except white people.

This will be a leopards eating faces moment for the litigants.

Again, this also had mainly impacted Asian folks, but you conveniently gloss over that fact. Pretty sad Harvard also ranked them so low on “personality” tests, but that’s another story altogether.

Having taught many college students, I understand this.

Wow again, the racism. Have you ever considered that Asians are perhaps just less outwardly expressive than folks from other cultures? Doesn't mean they don't have a personality. In fact, to Asians, the typical american can be described as obnoxious, dramatic. Don't equate that with personality.

This is not how I would characterize my Asians students at all. Nor would I characterize “typical American” as not Asian. Sorry, you’re calling me racist?

Your original post wasn't clear over what it was you understood, and people made a wrong assumption.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if schools like Harvard rejected black male candidates because admissions staff gave them negative personality scores for things like ‘probably prone to violence’ and ‘most likely to act unruly and without discipline in the classroom’. How outrageous would that be? Of course it’d be despicable to reject a black man for negative personality scores based on racial stereotypes like that. So why should we tolerate that crap but for Asians? And you wonder why Asians are upset when Affirmative Action setup a system where they have to be judged in their personality, which ended up being based on racial stereotypes of their perceived behavior. I can’t believe we even need to discuss this. Affirmative Action should have died a long time ago based on the monstrosity it morphed into. Maybe at first it had merit, but it just ended up becoming a race based system using stereotypes to judge people.

You are just making shit up. No one used an Asian stereotype of personality. They are giving points to students who are engaged in activities and organizations and community causes, as they should. The ability to contribute to group projects and engage with other people is a valuable asset and skill. Plenty of Asian kids are involved in activities and get the deserved boost for it. Antisocial hermits do not contribute as much to a school or to society, no matter their race or test scores.

No. You’re being racist here. And they totally did this to Asians.

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2018/06/harvard-admissions-personality/563198/

Also, there was another article about how the alumni would meet Asians and rank the personality is good.

And for the record: Asians aren’t all anti-social hermits. Just like black men aren’t all violent criminals. Because that’s racist.

Read what I wrote, jackass. I said “Plenty of Asian kids are involved in activities and get the deserved boost for it.” You guys are the ones stereotyping Asians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think this a blow to diversity on college campuses, but I also think schools will get creative with how they keep said diversity. Pay attention to student zip codes who apply, the racial make up of the HS they attend, read the essays for clues as to the students race/ethnicity, etc.

I hope so. I feel like our society is back-sliding and reinforcing systemic racism, all because Asian kids don’t get their school of choice that they feel deeply entitled to. It’s disturbing

Thank you - as a well educated African American woman, this is a bitter pill to swallow. My kids will be fine but as a long time local prosecutor, man have I met some smart kids who due to circumstances, will never ever have the grades and test scores to meet some college admission criteria. However, these same kids would do well in the right circumstances on a college campus if given the opportunity. Many of these Asian families have no shortage of money for tutoring and other enrichment classes and can get into MANY colleges - not just the one they want, while the kids I have described will not get into any.

So … serious question is the solution though impractical public boarding school for all where parents have no influence on kids except for their genes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I think that Asians have the right to be angry- when the bar is set so much higher than for other people, even whites.

You are the ones who created this “bar” to begin with.

Students with Bs used to get into Harvard in the 90s and everything was chill.

But Asian immigrants figured that they can game the system by packaging kids - A student + test prep + an instrument + math team + science Olympiad = Ivy League..

And now so many of you that no one stands out any more and schools don’t want another packaged kid.

They want genuine kids who have passions, not because they were pushed by their parents.

I just want to point out, it was all created by YOU. This is a product of YOU. You are to blame yourself for the crap you’re creating in your society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Racist DCUMers claiming Asians students are basically all the same and all have affluence and tutoring when there are massive differences between people of South East Asian decent vs those of North East and East Asian descent. SE Asians are way more impoverished, yet they get lumped in with the stupidly broad category of 'Asian'. It's almost as if a continent with 3+ billion people is not monolithic and descendants from those areas in our country have vastly different experiences.

Good for Asians for standing up for their rights to not be judged based on their race or ridiculously offensive racial stereotypes that are used to pre-emptiveky judge their character and personality by admissions staff. It's so insane we have to argue over this. The road to hell is always paved with good intentions, but affirmative action led us down the path of using race based discrimination and ridiculous personality stereotypes of Asians to help people reject them from.admisisons and jobs just so they could reach a desired quota.

72% of Asians hold college degrees. Tell me where the discrimination is?!

Still waiting for an answer. Where is the discrimination?

Harvard applied much higher admissions standards to Asian applicants, with the lowest admission rates despite having the highest scores. Blacks, by contrast, have the lowest scores and GPAs but the highest admission rates among races. If that is not discrimination, then there is no such thing as discrimination.

But there are still Asian students graduating from Harvard.

Yes there are and there will be even more in the future. In fact, "in a breakdown of the incoming class released by the university last week, Harvard revealed that 29.9% of admitted applicants are Asian American. It’s a 2.1% jump from last year’s number." Just for comparison, around 7 percent of Americans identified as Asian (alone or in combination with other races).

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/harvard-admits-record-number-asian-american-students-black-latino-admi-rcna77923#:~:text=In%20a%20breakdown%20of%20the,jump%20from%20last%20year%27s%20number.

The Ivies had made a concerted effort to lower this number to 10-15 percent, but raised it more recently in light of this lawsuit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think that Asians have the right to be angry- when the bar is set so much higher than for other people, even whites.

You are the ones who created this “bar” to begin with.

Students with Bs used to get into Harvard in the 90s and everything was chill.

But Asian immigrants figured that they can game the system by packaging kids - A student + test prep + an instrument + math team + science Olympiad = Ivy League..

And now so many of you that no one stands out any more and schools don’t want another packaged kid.

They want genuine kids who have passions, not because they were pushed by their parents.

I just want to point out, it was all created by YOU. This is a product of YOU. You are to blame yourself for the crap you’re creating in your society.

Translation: Asians learned how to get into Harvard by valuing education and working hard, but thanks for being a racist ahole trying to cheapen their values.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think that Asians have the right to be angry- when the bar is set so much higher than for other people, even whites.

You are the ones who created this “bar” to begin with.

Students with Bs used to get into Harvard in the 90s and everything was chill.

But Asian immigrants figured that they can game the system by packaging kids - A student + test prep + an instrument + math team + science Olympiad = Ivy League..

And now so many of you that no one stands out any more and schools don’t want another packaged kid.

They want genuine kids who have passions, not because they were pushed by their parents.

I just want to point out, it was all created by YOU. This is a product of YOU. You are to blame yourself for the crap you’re creating in your society.

You should listen to yourself and take time out for reflection...serious timeout. You're saying "genuine kids who have passions," as if your description doesn't apply to Asians. YOU are the racist one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think that Asians have the right to be angry- when the bar is set so much higher than for other people, even whites.

You are the ones who created this “bar” to begin with.

Students with Bs used to get into Harvard in the 90s and everything was chill.

But Asian immigrants figured that they can game the system by packaging kids - A student + test prep + an instrument + math team + science Olympiad = Ivy League..

And now so many of you that no one stands out any more and schools don’t want another packaged kid.

They want genuine kids who have passions, not because they were pushed by their parents.

I just want to point out, it was all created by YOU. This is a product of YOU. You are to blame yourself for the crap you’re creating in your society.

Wow. I think you might learn a little from the words of this young man, pp........

[Anonymous]

Geographic diversity is beneficial to a university. Limit the number of admissions by ZIP Code.

[Anonymous]

I am an Asian American, I don’t mind at all colleges get creative and find other ways to admit a racially diverse group of students. The burden is on them at least. Now, they can claim “diversity” and automatically filter my application based on my race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:


Translation: Asians learned how to get into Harvard by valuing education and working hard, but thanks for being a racist ahole trying to cheapen their values.

I can take any kid, literally any kid and drill them to ace tests.

That’s not going to make them a good candidate for a school that looks for creative leaders that will change the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if schools like Harvard rejected black male candidates because admissions staff gave them negative personality scores for things like ‘probably prone to violence’ and ‘most likely to act unruly and without discipline in the classroom’. How outrageous would that be? Of course it’d be despicable to reject a black man for negative personality scores based on racial stereotypes like that. So why should we tolerate that crap but for Asians? And you wonder why Asians are upset when Affirmative Action setup a system where they have to be judged in their personality, which ended up being based on racial stereotypes of their perceived behavior. I can’t believe we even need to discuss this. Affirmative Action should have died a long time ago based on the monstrosity it morphed into. Maybe at first it had merit, but it just ended up becoming a race based system using stereotypes to judge people.

You are just making shit up. No one used an Asian stereotype of personality. They are giving points to students who are engaged in activities and organizations and community causes, as they should. The ability to contribute to group projects and engage with other people is a valuable asset and skill. Plenty of Asian kids are involved in activities and get the deserved boost for it. Antisocial hermits do not contribute as much to a school or to society, no matter their race or test scores.

The personality ranking was completely made up, used as a front to discriminate against asians, and had no basis in reality. Pasting what was posted before:

When comparing applicants with the same level of academic achievement, Asians always had the worst personality scores of any group. The SFFA constructed an index based on Harvard’s academic rating and used it to divide applicants into 10 evenly-sized groups (deciles) based on the strength of their academic performance. Within each of the 10 academic deciles, Asians had the lowest personality scores across all of the racial groups. A perfect 10 for 10.

Within each racial group, high academic performance strongly predicted high personality ratings, but Asians had the lowest average personality rating even though they had the highest average academic rating.

In contrast, Harvard alumni rated Asians similar to whites on personality and better, on average, than Latinos and blacks. But it is the admissions office, not alumni, that ultimately determines Harvard’s personality ratings.

https://thehill.com/opinion/education/3704542...cult-of-personality/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think this a blow to diversity on college campuses, but I also think schools will get creative with how they keep said diversity. Pay attention to student zip codes who apply, the racial make up of the HS they attend, read the essays for clues as to the students race/ethnicity, etc.

That still using race.

Lawsuits will fly.

It’s not. And top schools don’t require standardized tests now so good luck proving anything