Why are teachers and nurses underpaid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As one of the PPs already mentioned, teachers and their unions fought reopening schools tooth and nail during COVID, which cased a disastrous drop in student achievement. For better or worse, by refusing any reasonable proposal to go back to work for so long, teachers lost a lot of public goodwill. So Even if many factors were at play for that leaning loss, it's just not a good look right now for teachers to keep whining how they're npt tp blame and how they deserve ever higher pay increases. How abput teachers first bring up student test scores back to pre-pandemic levels, and then we can talk about more pay?

I see it differently. I saw teachers bending backwards to provide for students in terrible circumstances *that the teachers did not create.* I know many teachers throughout the DMV (which tends to happen when you’ve been in the profession for so long). I can’t think of one… ONE… who vocally fought to keep schools virtual. They were all too busy making virtual learning WORK to waste time getting political.

You are fighting the wrong people. Go after school boards and unions, the ones who actually have a voice and, no, don’t always represent the teachers. I have spoken many times over the years to both the BOE and the union about what I consider are their poor decisions. Again: *teachers* didn’t make these decisions. You’re giving us far more power than we actually have. You are also assuming we have time to drop our busy, overburdened jobs to pick up a political fight.

But a majority of teachers elected those unions who brought about those disastrous results for our kids.

Also, I was talking about public perception. Surely you and your close-knit circle of teacher friends may see it differently. But for better or worse, but many more parents (and the public at large) viewed teachers and their unions has having been blatantly selfish when refusing any reasonable solution to go reopen schools. Again, just thinking about the current public perception here: Now might not be an ideal time to loudly whine about wanting more money while paying no attention to how much our kids are still struggling with the fallout...

Not in VA, where the majority don’t belong to a “union” (unless you are talking about a majority of a small group of people that belong).

[Anonymous]

Nurses' actual hourly wages are pretty good, if we're talking RNs.

Their working conditions are not necessarily good, which leads to burnout. And their hours can be variable, but are definitely not "flexible." My mom is a longtime RN and actually had COVID and her supervisor was still pressuring her to come in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As one of the PPs already mentioned, teachers and their unions fought reopening schools tooth and nail during COVID, which cased a disastrous drop in student achievement. For better or worse, by refusing any reasonable proposal to go back to work for so long, teachers lost a lot of public goodwill. So Even if many factors were at play for that leaning loss, it's just not a good look right now for teachers to keep whining how they're npt tp blame and how they deserve ever higher pay increases. How abput teachers first bring up student test scores back to pre-pandemic levels, and then we can talk about more pay?

I see it differently. I saw teachers bending backwards to provide for students in terrible circumstances *that the teachers did not create.* I know many teachers throughout the DMV (which tends to happen when you’ve been in the profession for so long). I can’t think of one… ONE… who vocally fought to keep schools virtual. They were all too busy making virtual learning WORK to waste time getting political.

You are fighting the wrong people. Go after school boards and unions, the ones who actually have a voice and, no, don’t always represent the teachers. I have spoken many times over the years to both the BOE and the union about what I consider are their poor decisions. Again: *teachers* didn’t make these decisions. You’re giving us far more power than we actually have. You are also assuming we have time to drop our busy, overburdened jobs to pick up a political fight.

Same. We can’t think of anyone either and we are both in elementary schools. Everyone we know hated distance learning. When pooled by FCPS in the summer of 2020, we both said we preferred to teach in-person. This was when they were trying to plan a way to have some of us in schools teaching in-person while other taught virtually. They couldn’t figure out a way to make it work. I think they were trying to please everyone and couldn’t. Both of us went into the building and taught virtually from the classroom every day. At least that way I could see other people (I’d say about 25% of the teachers were there plus office staff) and had a dedicated space in which to work. Everyone was so happy when the students started coming back into the school and nobody wanted the possibility of having to teach in a hybrid model last fall. Thankfully we didn’t have to do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Considering there are over 3M teachers and 5M nurses in the US that is going to limit the salary. I know most don’t want to believe it but they are common jobs that many many millions could do with some standard training.

What jobs with that type of quantity pay a high salary? Big tech is likely under 100k jobs that pay the big bucks. How many high paid executives are there, likely under 1M. Who would pay these high salaries for 8M workers, the median wage is in the 60-70k range.

Sorry, but that’s simply not true. If teaching really were a job that many millions could do with some standard training, it wouldn’t have such an incredibly high burnout rate in the first 5 years. The truth is, training only gets you so far. You can understand content, but you need to have a collection of personal and interpersonal skills to actually succeed in a classroom. Unfortunately, people who haven’t taught don’t grasp the emotional, physical, mental, and spiritual demands each day brings.

To be a good teacher, you need to be a strong communicator, listener, and collaborator. You need to be adaptable yet organized, patient yet timely, and understanding yet demanding. You need strong presentation skills that can successfully reach a wide variety of audiences. You need to be very good with data, including how to create opportunities to gather accurate data you can subsequently track and organize. You need time management and the ability to hold your hunger and bladder. You need the ability to be at your 100% A game each day, regardless of what is happening in your personal life. You need to be ready to be around (and responsible for) many other people each day without a moment to yourself. Teaching is a 180 day sprint with no real chance to relax until the summer hits. That type of endurance can’t be taught. You have the ability or you don’t.

None of this can be true. How do I know this?
Because during the pandemic all we heard from teachers is that weren’t going to risk getting sick to be a babysitter. Nope, anyone can teach and if students flailed and experienced learning loss, it was because the parents weren’t doing their jobs i.e, being a teacher. In essence teachers convinced struggling parents and students that anyone can teach and being in a classroom was mere babysitting services.
That is the house you built.
Nurses showed up, police showed up, firefighters showed up, hell retail workers saved the day. But teachers? Nope they don’t “babysit “. Own that.

Um… I’m a private school teacher. I showed up. We were only virtual for a couple of months, and then we were in-person for the rest of the pandemic. Want to try again?

My best friend is a public school teacher. She bent over backwards to teach advanced Chem online. I was blown away by the variety of work-arounds she found, including doing AP-level labs at home using common household supplies. She showed ingenuity and a deep concern for her students. You do NOT get to blame a teacher like her for the shortcomings of others. Say “thank you” for the countless hours she put in to successfully teach students virtually and move on.

Is there a way to pay just her more? No? Well, then she’s going to get treated like the rest of the teachers that said parents were perfectly capable of doing the job of the teacher while simultaneously working their own full-time job (sometimes out of the house).

To translate, I believe you just said that the teachers who devote themself wholeheartedly to their students and to the profession, even making unprecedented strides during a pandemic that was not of their causing, deserve all the hostility and hatred coming their way. If I understand correctly, that’s simply because they share a profession with a few lazy teachers you may have witnessed during Covid. I’m sure I also assume correctly that the fact these tremendous, selfless teachers are also working parents with their own needs and concerns means nothing to you. I’m sure there’s no way you can give them any kind words or empathy.

That’s a shame. They would do so for you.

That’s not at all what I said. Quite the opposite. But the unfortunate reality is that the devoted teachers were in the minority in places like the DMV. The unions, which for better or worse speak for the majority of teachers, fought to keep schools closed, telling parents that were capable of teaching their own kids while working their own jobs. The teachers that were willing to acknowledge that was harmful to students and advocate for reopening were few and far between.

It doesn't speak highly for the profession as a whole if they think untrained parents (many of whom lack a college education) can do their jobs effectively in a couple of hours between the end of the day and bedtime.

I see a ton of assumptions in this post. You assume devoted teachers were in the minority. You assume the unions spoke for the majority of teachers. You assume that same majority told parents to teach their own children. (Seriously? Who really said that?)

I taught throughout the entire pandemic, most of it in person. I know many teachers, both public and private, and they taught throughout the entire pandemic, too. Perhaps you didn’t like HOW, but guess what? Those teachers had little (if any) power to open schools up for you. Many spent weekends and evenings attending hastily put-together trainings to figure out everything at their disposal to make online learning work. Many teachers did very well, which is remarkable since each new day brought unprecedented challenges. I watched colleagues run drama classes online, producing full-length virtual plays. I watched colleagues run online clubs after school, creatively engaging kids in mystery dinner theater club, “where in the world” geography club, and a host of other quickly-produced ideas to give kids a sense of community. I watched colleagues drive supplies to students’ homes for upcoming units. I watched them host office hours to reteach math, or to go over essays. Where you see only negative, I see innovation and a determination to make the best out of a horrible situation.

I guess you and I will never see eye-to-eye. I don’t assume people have bad intentions and I don’t blame the many for the actions of the few. I’ve had a dreadful doctor who messed up a procedure, but I don’t condemn the entire medical profession. I’ve interacted with a hateful and egotistical lawyer, but I don’t assume all lawyers are despicable humans. Sure, some teachers aren’t great, but most are. I just hope you give the teachers in your life a chance instead of assuming the worst.

Are you forgetting about the threats and acts of (illegal) strikes by teacher’s unions? Who elected the leaders of those unions? How many union members publicly spoke out against the actions of their leaders?

Nope, still not assuming the worst and not blaming the all for the few. That's not how I operate. Your everyday teacher is too busy planning, grading, teaching, attending meetings, and doing 50 other things simulataneously. I couldn't tell you who my union rep is, what they are doing, etc. I'm not even a huge fan of having a union.

I performed admirably during the pandemic. I'm proud of what I accomplished. Your hate can't take that away from me.

You should be more concerned about your colleagues making you look bad. You don’t honestly expect across-the-board pay raises given what we’ve seen in teaching over the last few years, do you?

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

Do all of you fed workers go by this same mantra- you have colleagues making you look bad, how can you expect raises when there are feds who work from home and online shop all day? Not being snarky but just curious since I see other threads saying how hard fed workers work. But perception seems to be important here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As one of the PPs already mentioned, teachers and their unions fought reopening schools tooth and nail during COVID, which cased a disastrous drop in student achievement. For better or worse, by refusing any reasonable proposal to go back to work for so long, teachers lost a lot of public goodwill. So Even if many factors were at play for that leaning loss, it's just not a good look right now for teachers to keep whining how they're npt tp blame and how they deserve ever higher pay increases. How abput teachers first bring up student test scores back to pre-pandemic levels, and then we can talk about more pay?

I see it differently. I saw teachers bending backwards to provide for students in terrible circumstances *that the teachers did not create.* I know many teachers throughout the DMV (which tends to happen when you’ve been in the profession for so long). I can’t think of one… ONE… who vocally fought to keep schools virtual. They were all too busy making virtual learning WORK to waste time getting political.

You are fighting the wrong people. Go after school boards and unions, the ones who actually have a voice and, no, don’t always represent the teachers. I have spoken many times over the years to both the BOE and the union about what I consider are their poor decisions. Again: *teachers* didn’t make these decisions. You’re giving us far more power than we actually have. You are also assuming we have time to drop our busy, overburdened jobs to pick up a political fight.

But a majority of teachers elected those unions who brought about those disastrous results for our kids.

Also, I was talking about public perception. Surely you and your close-knit circle of teacher friends may see it differently. But for better or worse, but many more parents (and the public at large) viewed teachers and their unions has having been blatantly selfish when refusing any reasonable solution to go reopen schools. Again, just thinking about the current public perception here: Now might not be an ideal time to loudly whine about wanting more money while paying no attention to how much our kids are still struggling with the fallout...

Not in VA, where the majority don’t belong to a “union” (unless you are talking about a majority of a small group of people that belong).

You keep talking about VA, but what about DC and MD? Also, VA teachers had their own fair share of pressure campaigns to keep schools shut.

Maybe you're 100% correct and teachers are perfect, but that doesn't change public perception: It's simply not a good look for teachers to whine so much about pay when the real focus should be on how to help students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nurses are not underpaid.

this.

Geez. Then why are so many places looking to hire nurses, and perpetually short of staff? Nursing is an intense cognitive, physical, and psychological challenge. At least bedside is, and that’s the main places nurses are underpaid, as evidenced by the failure to retain experienced staff. But let’s just pump out more new nurses, so we can continue having nurses work bedside for 2-3 years and then leave the profession or, sometimes, that practice area.

Nobody thinks they need to care until they’re surprised to have a loved one in the hospital and then, believe me, the shortage of experienced staff will impact you negatively. Nurse, who had a loved one hospitalized this summer.

[Anonymous]

Teachers and nurses is SoCal make about $100k a year.

[Anonymous]

Unions fight for their employees. That's their function. The school districts couldn't get themselves together enough to ensure safe working conditions so that's why schools stayed closed. You saw the district's dysfunction up close for the first time. Teachers have seen that long ago. It took that many months for the districts to come up with plans for air filtration, masking, testing, etc. It was probably the first time school districts actually had to get together and do real work so yeah, it took a while for them to reopen schools. They love that people blame the unions for closing schools (they didn't) and keeping them closed (they didn't). When teachers were told to go back, we all went back. We can't strike in MD and everyone should know that.

My district had all special ed self-contained classes and kindergarten classes reopen in November 2020. I went back to school, set up a classroom and only 5 kindergarten students wanted to return in person. This is 5 students out of appr. 70. So, we continued virtually until March when only 7-8 came back in person. They came back into school and continued to learn online.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unions fight for their employees. That's their function. The school districts couldn't get themselves together enough to ensure safe working conditions so that's why schools stayed closed. You saw the district's dysfunction up close for the first time. Teachers have seen that long ago. It took that many months for the districts to come up with plans for air filtration, masking, testing, etc. It was probably the first time school districts actually had to get together and do real work so yeah, it took a while for them to reopen schools. They love that people blame the unions for closing schools (they didn't) and keeping them closed (they didn't). When teachers were told to go back, we all went back. We can't strike in MD and everyone should know that.

My district had all special ed self-contained classes and kindergarten classes reopen in November 2020. I went back to school, set up a classroom and only 5 kindergarten students wanted to return in person. This is 5 students out of appr. 70. So, we continued virtually until March when only 7-8 came back in person. They came back into school and continued to learn online.

The unions kept making ever-more ridiculous demands that school districts could not possibly meet. It's an easy talking point to just say "schools could not get their act together" because it hides the unions' true role in all of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As one of the PPs already mentioned, teachers and their unions fought reopening schools tooth and nail during COVID, which cased a disastrous drop in student achievement. For better or worse, by refusing any reasonable proposal to go back to work for so long, teachers lost a lot of public goodwill. So Even if many factors were at play for that leaning loss, it's just not a good look right now for teachers to keep whining how they're npt tp blame and how they deserve ever higher pay increases. How abput teachers first bring up student test scores back to pre-pandemic levels, and then we can talk about more pay?

I see it differently. I saw teachers bending backwards to provide for students in terrible circumstances *that the teachers did not create.* I know many teachers throughout the DMV (which tends to happen when you’ve been in the profession for so long). I can’t think of one… ONE… who vocally fought to keep schools virtual. They were all too busy making virtual learning WORK to waste time getting political.

You are fighting the wrong people. Go after school boards and unions, the ones who actually have a voice and, no, don’t always represent the teachers. I have spoken many times over the years to both the BOE and the union about what I consider are their poor decisions. Again: *teachers* didn’t make these decisions. You’re giving us far more power than we actually have. You are also assuming we have time to drop our busy, overburdened jobs to pick up a political fight.

But a majority of teachers elected those unions who brought about those disastrous results for our kids.

Also, I was talking about public perception. Surely you and your close-knit circle of teacher friends may see it differently. But for better or worse, but many more parents (and the public at large) viewed teachers and their unions has having been blatantly selfish when refusing any reasonable solution to go reopen schools. Again, just thinking about the current public perception here: Now might not be an ideal time to loudly whine about wanting more money while paying no attention to how much our kids are still struggling with the fallout...

Not in VA, where the majority don’t belong to a “union” (unless you are talking about a majority of a small group of people that belong).

You keep talking about VA, but what about DC and MD? Also, VA teachers had their own fair share of pressure campaigns to keep schools shut.

Maybe you're 100% correct and teachers are perfect, but that doesn't change public perception: It's simply not a good look for teachers to whine so much about pay when the real focus should be on how to help students.

Because what about VA where there are no true teacher unions? You keep lumping all teachers and districts together with comments like “the majority of teachers elected these unions”. If you are specifically referencing DC the say so. You and others want teachers to speak out, but not on this board? Apparently that doesn’t count? Public perception might be as you say it is, so I’m going to make posts to counter that perception. If the school board in the fall of 2020 would have opened the schools to in-person instruction, I would have shown up. The school board tried to accommodate everybody and couldn’t do it.

As far as pay, (and I’ve mentioned this before), I seldom hear complaints locally about pay. Sure, there have been years when it’s been a bigger issue but right now I hear more about workload and lack of planning time.

I’ve never said teachers are perfect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Considering there are over 3M teachers and 5M nurses in the US that is going to limit the salary. I know most don’t want to believe it but they are common jobs that many many millions could do with some standard training.

What jobs with that type of quantity pay a high salary? Big tech is likely under 100k jobs that pay the big bucks. How many high paid executives are there, likely under 1M. Who would pay these high salaries for 8M workers, the median wage is in the 60-70k range.

Sorry, but that’s simply not true. If teaching really were a job that many millions could do with some standard training, it wouldn’t have such an incredibly high burnout rate in the first 5 years. The truth is, training only gets you so far. You can understand content, but you need to have a collection of personal and interpersonal skills to actually succeed in a classroom. Unfortunately, people who haven’t taught don’t grasp the emotional, physical, mental, and spiritual demands each day brings.

To be a good teacher, you need to be a strong communicator, listener, and collaborator. You need to be adaptable yet organized, patient yet timely, and understanding yet demanding. You need strong presentation skills that can successfully reach a wide variety of audiences. You need to be very good with data, including how to create opportunities to gather accurate data you can subsequently track and organize. You need time management and the ability to hold your hunger and bladder. You need the ability to be at your 100% A game each day, regardless of what is happening in your personal life. You need to be ready to be around (and responsible for) many other people each day without a moment to yourself. Teaching is a 180 day sprint with no real chance to relax until the summer hits. That type of endurance can’t be taught. You have the ability or you don’t.

None of this can be true. How do I know this?
Because during the pandemic all we heard from teachers is that weren’t going to risk getting sick to be a babysitter. Nope, anyone can teach and if students flailed and experienced learning loss, it was because the parents weren’t doing their jobs i.e, being a teacher. In essence teachers convinced struggling parents and students that anyone can teach and being in a classroom was mere babysitting services.
That is the house you built.
Nurses showed up, police showed up, firefighters showed up, hell retail workers saved the day. But teachers? Nope they don’t “babysit “. Own that.

Um… I’m a private school teacher. I showed up. We were only virtual for a couple of months, and then we were in-person for the rest of the pandemic. Want to try again?

My best friend is a public school teacher. She bent over backwards to teach advanced Chem online. I was blown away by the variety of work-arounds she found, including doing AP-level labs at home using common household supplies. She showed ingenuity and a deep concern for her students. You do NOT get to blame a teacher like her for the shortcomings of others. Say “thank you” for the countless hours she put in to successfully teach students virtually and move on.

Is there a way to pay just her more? No? Well, then she’s going to get treated like the rest of the teachers that said parents were perfectly capable of doing the job of the teacher while simultaneously working their own full-time job (sometimes out of the house).

To translate, I believe you just said that the teachers who devote themself wholeheartedly to their students and to the profession, even making unprecedented strides during a pandemic that was not of their causing, deserve all the hostility and hatred coming their way. If I understand correctly, that’s simply because they share a profession with a few lazy teachers you may have witnessed during Covid. I’m sure I also assume correctly that the fact these tremendous, selfless teachers are also working parents with their own needs and concerns means nothing to you. I’m sure there’s no way you can give them any kind words or empathy.

That’s a shame. They would do so for you.

That’s not at all what I said. Quite the opposite. But the unfortunate reality is that the devoted teachers were in the minority in places like the DMV. The unions, which for better or worse speak for the majority of teachers, fought to keep schools closed, telling parents that were capable of teaching their own kids while working their own jobs. The teachers that were willing to acknowledge that was harmful to students and advocate for reopening were few and far between.

It doesn't speak highly for the profession as a whole if they think untrained parents (many of whom lack a college education) can do their jobs effectively in a couple of hours between the end of the day and bedtime.

I see a ton of assumptions in this post. You assume devoted teachers were in the minority. You assume the unions spoke for the majority of teachers. You assume that same majority told parents to teach their own children. (Seriously? Who really said that?)

I taught throughout the entire pandemic, most of it in person. I know many teachers, both public and private, and they taught throughout the entire pandemic, too. Perhaps you didn’t like HOW, but guess what? Those teachers had little (if any) power to open schools up for you. Many spent weekends and evenings attending hastily put-together trainings to figure out everything at their disposal to make online learning work. Many teachers did very well, which is remarkable since each new day brought unprecedented challenges. I watched colleagues run drama classes online, producing full-length virtual plays. I watched colleagues run online clubs after school, creatively engaging kids in mystery dinner theater club, “where in the world” geography club, and a host of other quickly-produced ideas to give kids a sense of community. I watched colleagues drive supplies to students’ homes for upcoming units. I watched them host office hours to reteach math, or to go over essays. Where you see only negative, I see innovation and a determination to make the best out of a horrible situation.

I guess you and I will never see eye-to-eye. I don’t assume people have bad intentions and I don’t blame the many for the actions of the few. I’ve had a dreadful doctor who messed up a procedure, but I don’t condemn the entire medical profession. I’ve interacted with a hateful and egotistical lawyer, but I don’t assume all lawyers are despicable humans. Sure, some teachers aren’t great, but most are. I just hope you give the teachers in your life a chance instead of assuming the worst.

Are you forgetting about the threats and acts of (illegal) strikes by teacher’s unions? Who elected the leaders of those unions? How many union members publicly spoke out against the actions of their leaders?

Nope, still not assuming the worst and not blaming the all for the few. That's not how I operate. Your everyday teacher is too busy planning, grading, teaching, attending meetings, and doing 50 other things simulataneously. I couldn't tell you who my union rep is, what they are doing, etc. I'm not even a huge fan of having a union.

I performed admirably during the pandemic. I'm proud of what I accomplished. Your hate can't take that away from me.

You should be more concerned about your colleagues making you look bad. You don’t honestly expect across-the-board pay raises given what we’ve seen in teaching over the last few years, do you?

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

Do all of you fed workers go by this same mantra- you have colleagues making you look bad, how can you expect raises when there are feds who work from home and online shop all day? Not being snarky but just curious since I see other threads saying how hard fed workers work. But perception seems to be important here.

Pp here, and also a fed manager. I absolutely agree. I hate the GS system. Though, I’m at least at an agency with its own performance-based pay system. I certainly think we should be using a similar system across the federal government as a whole, as well as creating separate pay scales for different types of positions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Teachers and nurses is SoCal make about $100k a year.

That is not a good income in such a high cost of living area
Once you deduct taxes and health insurance, car payments and others, not a lot left for housing.
Must be a nightmare for 2 teachers to also pay for day care at that salary. I suppose you have teachers receiving some kind of assistance

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Teachers and nurses is SoCal make about $100k a year.

Starting salaries?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Considering there are over 3M teachers and 5M nurses in the US that is going to limit the salary. I know most don’t want to believe it but they are common jobs that many many millions could do with some standard training.

What jobs with that type of quantity pay a high salary? Big tech is likely under 100k jobs that pay the big bucks. How many high paid executives are there, likely under 1M. Who would pay these high salaries for 8M workers, the median wage is in the 60-70k range.

Sorry, but that’s simply not true. If teaching really were a job that many millions could do with some standard training, it wouldn’t have such an incredibly high burnout rate in the first 5 years. The truth is, training only gets you so far. You can understand content, but you need to have a collection of personal and interpersonal skills to actually succeed in a classroom. Unfortunately, people who haven’t taught don’t grasp the emotional, physical, mental, and spiritual demands each day brings.

To be a good teacher, you need to be a strong communicator, listener, and collaborator. You need to be adaptable yet organized, patient yet timely, and understanding yet demanding. You need strong presentation skills that can successfully reach a wide variety of audiences. You need to be very good with data, including how to create opportunities to gather accurate data you can subsequently track and organize. You need time management and the ability to hold your hunger and bladder. You need the ability to be at your 100% A game each day, regardless of what is happening in your personal life. You need to be ready to be around (and responsible for) many other people each day without a moment to yourself. Teaching is a 180 day sprint with no real chance to relax until the summer hits. That type of endurance can’t be taught. You have the ability or you don’t.

None of this can be true. How do I know this?
Because during the pandemic all we heard from teachers is that weren’t going to risk getting sick to be a babysitter. Nope, anyone can teach and if students flailed and experienced learning loss, it was because the parents weren’t doing their jobs i.e, being a teacher. In essence teachers convinced struggling parents and students that anyone can teach and being in a classroom was mere babysitting services.
That is the house you built.
Nurses showed up, police showed up, firefighters showed up, hell retail workers saved the day. But teachers? Nope they don’t “babysit “. Own that.

Um… I’m a private school teacher. I showed up. We were only virtual for a couple of months, and then we were in-person for the rest of the pandemic. Want to try again?

My best friend is a public school teacher. She bent over backwards to teach advanced Chem online. I was blown away by the variety of work-arounds she found, including doing AP-level labs at home using common household supplies. She showed ingenuity and a deep concern for her students. You do NOT get to blame a teacher like her for the shortcomings of others. Say “thank you” for the countless hours she put in to successfully teach students virtually and move on.

Is there a way to pay just her more? No? Well, then she’s going to get treated like the rest of the teachers that said parents were perfectly capable of doing the job of the teacher while simultaneously working their own full-time job (sometimes out of the house).

To translate, I believe you just said that the teachers who devote themself wholeheartedly to their students and to the profession, even making unprecedented strides during a pandemic that was not of their causing, deserve all the hostility and hatred coming their way. If I understand correctly, that’s simply because they share a profession with a few lazy teachers you may have witnessed during Covid. I’m sure I also assume correctly that the fact these tremendous, selfless teachers are also working parents with their own needs and concerns means nothing to you. I’m sure there’s no way you can give them any kind words or empathy.

That’s a shame. They would do so for you.

That’s not at all what I said. Quite the opposite. But the unfortunate reality is that the devoted teachers were in the minority in places like the DMV. The unions, which for better or worse speak for the majority of teachers, fought to keep schools closed, telling parents that were capable of teaching their own kids while working their own jobs. The teachers that were willing to acknowledge that was harmful to students and advocate for reopening were few and far between.

It doesn't speak highly for the profession as a whole if they think untrained parents (many of whom lack a college education) can do their jobs effectively in a couple of hours between the end of the day and bedtime.

I see a ton of assumptions in this post. You assume devoted teachers were in the minority. You assume the unions spoke for the majority of teachers. You assume that same majority told parents to teach their own children. (Seriously? Who really said that?)

I taught throughout the entire pandemic, most of it in person. I know many teachers, both public and private, and they taught throughout the entire pandemic, too. Perhaps you didn’t like HOW, but guess what? Those teachers had little (if any) power to open schools up for you. Many spent weekends and evenings attending hastily put-together trainings to figure out everything at their disposal to make online learning work. Many teachers did very well, which is remarkable since each new day brought unprecedented challenges. I watched colleagues run drama classes online, producing full-length virtual plays. I watched colleagues run online clubs after school, creatively engaging kids in mystery dinner theater club, “where in the world” geography club, and a host of other quickly-produced ideas to give kids a sense of community. I watched colleagues drive supplies to students’ homes for upcoming units. I watched them host office hours to reteach math, or to go over essays. Where you see only negative, I see innovation and a determination to make the best out of a horrible situation.

I guess you and I will never see eye-to-eye. I don’t assume people have bad intentions and I don’t blame the many for the actions of the few. I’ve had a dreadful doctor who messed up a procedure, but I don’t condemn the entire medical profession. I’ve interacted with a hateful and egotistical lawyer, but I don’t assume all lawyers are despicable humans. Sure, some teachers aren’t great, but most are. I just hope you give the teachers in your life a chance instead of assuming the worst.

Are you forgetting about the threats and acts of (illegal) strikes by teacher’s unions? Who elected the leaders of those unions? How many union members publicly spoke out against the actions of their leaders?

Nope, still not assuming the worst and not blaming the all for the few. That's not how I operate. Your everyday teacher is too busy planning, grading, teaching, attending meetings, and doing 50 other things simulataneously. I couldn't tell you who my union rep is, what they are doing, etc. I'm not even a huge fan of having a union.

I performed admirably during the pandemic. I'm proud of what I accomplished. Your hate can't take that away from me.

You should be more concerned about your colleagues making you look bad. You don’t honestly expect across-the-board pay raises given what we’ve seen in teaching over the last few years, do you?

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

Do all of you fed workers go by this same mantra- you have colleagues making you look bad, how can you expect raises when there are feds who work from home and online shop all day? Not being snarky but just curious since I see other threads saying how hard fed workers work. But perception seems to be important here.

Pp here, and also a fed manager. I absolutely agree. I hate the GS system. Though, I’m at least at an agency with its own performance-based pay system. I certainly think we should be using a similar system across the federal government as a whole, as well as creating separate pay scales for different types of positions.

I’m a Fed and have worked in both a performance based and GS scale. Performance based is often so subjective that managers just reward favorites and it erodes morale. In IT, we do make less than in other industries so people just leave. Anyway, the actual scale is the same. Eventually someone tops out and the points have to be distributed. There are many carrots and sticks to use in management and if you can’t figure out how to get the best out of your team, that’s on you, not the pay scale.

In any case, there are a lot of Feds, so no, not all Feds think any one thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers and nurses is SoCal make about $100k a year.

Starting salaries?

Salaries for public sector jobs are quite high in California. Plus, there are many incentives for hard-to-fill jobs. Go to the Transparent California website.