$80k In Debt Worth It for Ivy Undergrad?

[Anonymous]

Things will get better. You must believe in that.
Have you tried meditation. I strongly encourage you to give it a shot.
So what if you are not a STEM person? That is completely fine.
I went to MIT and it completely battered my confidence and I thought I must be stupid.
It took me 20+ years to internalize that I am actually very smart.
Have you considered taking anti depressants? The core classes at Columbia are probably some of the best ones.
You will probably enjoy the next 2 years. Or if you cannot handle going back, then quit. There is no right or wrong answer.
Just don’t give up. Keep moving forward one way or another. Take a year off and be a waiter, etc. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My goodness there are crazy people on this thread!

OP, I hope you have the sense not to listen to anyone telling you that your life will be ruined. That kind of black and white thinking is idiotic.

On the other hand, a Columbia degree is your shortest line to a degree and there may be ways to make it more palatable (study year abroad, summer courses at another ivy, etc). Have you emailed your advisor about any of those options?

And why does this decision need to be made now? Can't you just kick the can down the road until you have worked out a definite path with your therapist? I think you need that. And I also think you need to realize you're not the average person. You are actually a very bright young woman with a bright future and you just aren't sure what direction to take now.

OP here.

1. I've already kicked the can down the road; I took a leave of absence in January. And my therapist -- who, quite frankly, is a white woman out of touch with Asian culture and expectations (I couldn't find an Asian therapist who takes my insurance) -- isn't magically making plans up for me or "working out a definite path forward." Like most therapists, she simply gives me a cold pros/cons list of leaving Columbia and leaves the decision up to me. Therapists aren't supposed to make decisions for you or even give you advice about a decision. They just try to "empower you to make the best decision for you " (whatever the hell that means).

2. Unfortunately, because I have most of the Core left, I can't take summer classes at another Ivy or study abroad (also because I declared my major really late). I really wanted to study abroad, but unfortunately because of my late major declaration and the Core I can't.

3. I am absolutely average when it comes to intelligence, work ethic, ambition, and drive. The only reason I've gotten as far as I have now is because I had Asian immigrant tiger parents who screamed at me in high school for every A minus I got and monitored my online gradebook like a hawk. For my math, chemistry, and physics classes in high school, my dad would do every single assigned problem with me and basically became my personal tutor. No wonder I wasn't able to hack it on my own in Columbia STEM when the only reason why I got through AP Calc, Physics, and Chemistry in high school was because my dad gave me about ~20 hours of personal tutoring a week in high school (20 hours seems like a lot, but it's really not when you consider that I'm awful at STEM and was taking my high school's hardest STEM classes at a wealthy, competitive public school).

4. I do NOT have a bright future ahead. My future is filled with tons of student debt and a lifetime (or at least a decade's) worth of awful, soul-sucking corporate jobs that I'll inevitably hate so I can chip away at the principle of my student loans. My life will be MISERABLE for the next ten years (and most likely more), and frankly, I know that I'll be much better off getting murdered in Morningside Park than continuing at Columbia. Every day I wish I was never born.

You wrote that you have/will have "tons of student debt". Will your total student debt at graduation be more than $80,000 ? If not, that is reasonable for a degree from one of the best universities in the world. Just calculate monthly payments over 120 months (10 years) and you should realize that it is manageable on a reasonable salary. Yes, there will be lifestyle sacrifices. Almost everyone deals with financial stress during their twenties.

[Anonymous]

At 7% interest, your monthly payment will be about $928 for 120 months. Your interest might be lower, but you should expect to pay at least $900 a month for 120 months in order to fully satisfy this student loan debt obligation. Depending upon the state and city where you live and work, you will need to earn about $1,200 a month in pre-tax income in order to pay $900 per month in after-tax income.

If you start out in a low paying job, then you can pay just 10% of your income until you are more established.

While $900 a month is a substantial obligation, you should be able to manage this if you earn above $4,500 a month. Not easy. And it will require sacrifices, but your after-tax income on a salary of $54,000 should be about $42,000 to $45,000 ($3,500 to $3,750 per month) if working in the state of New York.

Discuss this with your parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP just finish at Columbia and you can be like the people in this forum. You can marry rich, then pass it off as personal success and hard work. Then just abuse some Xanax and start yelling at young people on some random forum. It's the dream, and the only way you'll be happy. Clearly.

Try not to get too down about the clubs. In my undergrad I got rejected from the volunteering club. They said I was too old (I was a junior), and I wouldn't be prepped for an e-board position. When I told them I didn't want to be on the e-board they stopped replying to my emails. Found out later that club was just for pre-meds to pad their resume. Now it's a good source of laughter for my non-ivy friends when we talk about the pieces of work that go to these schools. I promise you once you get your first "real" job, no one could care less about the circlejerk clubs you were in. They hardly care when you get your first one.

LOL!

[Anonymous]

Stay strong. Life will get better.
Either decision will work out ok.
If you can manage it, try to take off more time and work at Starbucks or something.
Or go wwoofing if that is what you want to do.
And keep trying to find a different therapist if you are not happy with this one.
You are strong, capable and smart. It is practically impossible to get into Columbia but you did it.
Have compassion and grace for yourself. We are all cheering for you

[Anonymous]

You people are insane. OP is taking out $80k for an ENGLISH degree, not Economics or STEM. Of course she'd be better off leaving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You people are insane. OP is taking out $80k for an ENGLISH degree, not Economics or STEM. Of course she'd be better off leaving.

Where did you go to school? It’s funny how everyone telling OP to drop out fails to mention. Ivy leaguers know 80K is nothing compared to the ROI regardless of major

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are insane. OP is taking out $80k for an ENGLISH degree, not Economics or STEM. Of course she'd be better off leaving.

Where did you go to school? It’s funny how everyone telling OP to drop out fails to mention. Ivy leaguers know 80K is nothing compared to the ROI regardless of major

Tell that to the Dartmouth grad who ended up homeless after majoring in Romance Languages:

https://apps.bostonglobe.com/magazine/graphics/2019/01/17/valedictorians/hopeful-to-homeless/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are insane. OP is taking out $80k for an ENGLISH degree, not Economics or STEM. Of course she'd be better off leaving.

Where did you go to school? It’s funny how everyone telling OP to drop out fails to mention. Ivy leaguers know 80K is nothing compared to the ROI regardless of major

Tell that to the Dartmouth grad who ended up homeless after majoring in Romance Languages:

https://apps.bostonglobe.com/magazine/graphics/2019/01/17/valedictorians/hopeful-to-homeless/

"She assumed her Dartmouth degree would help in the job market, though she recognized that she would need more than a romance studies degree to be a compelling candidate. So she stayed on campus after graduation, borrowing money to participate in an intensive summer business program for liberal arts majors at Dartmouth’s Tuck School of Business. She applied for jobs as a business analyst and online marketing analyst, and for other corporate positions. But she found no takers.

Her father, Franklin Disla, said he was proud of how well she did in school. He was surprised, though, at how much she struggled afterward. “I thought she’d have better opportunities,” he said.

Instead, she landed a pair of low-paying jobs — one starting at $12 an hour for 15 hours a week at a temp agency."

Wow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are insane. OP is taking out $80k for an ENGLISH degree, not Economics or STEM. Of course she'd be better off leaving.

Where did you go to school? It’s funny how everyone telling OP to drop out fails to mention. Ivy leaguers know 80K is nothing compared to the ROI regardless of major

Tell that to the Dartmouth grad who ended up homeless after majoring in Romance Languages:

https://apps.bostonglobe.com/magazine/graphics/2019/01/17/valedictorians/hopeful-to-homeless/

"She assumed her Dartmouth degree would help in the job market, though she recognized that she would need more than a romance studies degree to be a compelling candidate. So she stayed on campus after graduation, borrowing money to participate in an intensive summer business program for liberal arts majors at Dartmouth’s Tuck School of Business. She applied for jobs as a business analyst and online marketing analyst, and for other corporate positions. But she found no takers.

Her father, Franklin Disla, said he was proud of how well she did in school. He was surprised, though, at how much she struggled afterward. “I thought she’d have better opportunities,” he said.

Instead, she landed a pair of low-paying jobs — one starting at $12 an hour for 15 hours a week at a temp agency."

Wow.

I still don’t know where you went to school…is it because Columbia wouldn’t touch you with a 39.5 foot pole?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I am really worried about the impact that posting here will have on your mental health. And for what? You're not going to get clear advice here anyway.

As you see, people here are saying totally contradictory things and projecting themselves on you. You need real conversations and real support from real people.

I come from a very similar background as you and have had very similar experiences and struggles. Also worked as a college admissions consultant helping students get into top (and not-so-top) colleges. I've been poor and rich and seen it all.

I know the debt is not worth it. Don't let your parents' toxicity mess with your head. Don't let the idiots on this board mess with your head. Remember that everyone has a bias, but it's hard to fully see that bias when it's just a message on an anonymous board.

OP here. Just wanted to bump this comment and ask if the PP could email me at [e-mail] (but no worries if you'd rather not!).

[Anonymous]

Op, which state if your home state? And what is your preferred job - what would you love to do if money wasn't an issue?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, which state if your home state? And what is your preferred job - what would you love to do if money wasn't an issue?

I think I've already mentioned I'm from California.

I always said that if I had a trust fund I'd try to make it as a novelist or become some sort of community organizer or maybe an environmental educator. I know a wealthy Columbia grad who currently works in the Rockies leading middle school classes on environmental science (while taking them on adventure trips in nature), and I have to hide my jealousy of her.

But these are not exactly careers that easily translate into higher-paying alternatives. I guess there's technical writing or working at a non-profit, but at this point, those seem unappealing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, which state if your home state? And what is your preferred job - what would you love to do if money wasn't an issue?

I think I've already mentioned I'm from California.

I always said that if I had a trust fund I'd try to make it as a novelist or become some sort of community organizer or maybe an environmental educator. I know a wealthy Columbia grad who currently works in the Rockies leading middle school classes on environmental science (while taking them on adventure trips in nature), and I have to hide my jealousy of her.

But these are not exactly careers that easily translate into higher-paying alternatives. I guess there's technical writing or working at a non-profit, but at this point, those seem unappealing.

Would also like to add that I generally try to avoid doing my "passion" as a career since that usually leads to being underpaid and burnt out.

[Anonymous]

Hey OP, I think you’re actually making a great choice for yourself. I admire your independence, real world knowledge, and drive (knowledge of high interest rates with private lenders, talking with college admin about financial independence, researching the scholarships for transfer students at seven sisters). Kudos.

All I can add is that a state school can be a great option if the seven sisters falls through. I went to a state school with tuition and room and board paid since my family was low income. I had several job offers upon graduation. Ultimately I ended up getting a masters from an Ivy League, all expenses paid, because I wanted to pivot fields, so there’s always another shot at getting a degree from somewhere more “prestigious” if you someday seek that, though in many cases I don’t think it’s necessary.

Like you I wanted to work in the non profit world and did so until my mid-30s. I then moved into government because it was better paying and love my current job. I truly have no regrets about my education or career choices.

I really admire the insight you have into yourself and your willingness to forge a non traditional path. I think it bodes well for your future.