$80k In Debt Worth It for Ivy Undergrad?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - get mentally strong and then make the decision that is best for you. It will be fine.
Believe in yourself and focus on being happy.
Life is not linear for most people. Just because you had a big setback does not mean your life is over.
Things have a way of working out. Be optimistic and find supportive and kind friends

Things do NOT have a way of working out. If OP drops out of Columbia, the rest of her life will be a living hell. It will be awful beyond repair. Please do not spread BS like "it will all work out" when OP is about to make a life-threatening AWFUL decision.

This is so false it's laughable!!! There *are* colleges in the U.S. other than Columbia. Your notion that a humanities basket weaving degree from Columbia would make a huge difference in OP's future earnings is a joke. It's a bullsh-- degree. She may as well attend state college.

Yeah, well OP is better off with a basket weaving degree from Columbia than from Cal State. I don't think going to a less selective school will make it easier for OP to complete a STEM major -- it will be arguably harder to complete a CS degree from a state school given how much grade inflation Columbia has.

OP, I think you're destined to major in a useless liberal arts degree. In that case, you're WAY better off at Columbia.

not worth 80k in loans for a "useless liberal arts degree." Nope.

^^^ a.k.a., a pre-law degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - get mentally strong and then make the decision that is best for you. It will be fine.
Believe in yourself and focus on being happy.
Life is not linear for most people. Just because you had a big setback does not mean your life is over.
Things have a way of working out. Be optimistic and find supportive and kind friends

Things do NOT have a way of working out. If OP drops out of Columbia, the rest of her life will be a living hell. It will be awful beyond repair. Please do not spread BS like "it will all work out" when OP is about to make a life-threatening AWFUL decision.

This is so false it's laughable!!! There *are* colleges in the U.S. other than Columbia. Your notion that a humanities basket weaving degree from Columbia would make a huge difference in OP's future earnings is a joke. It's a bullsh-- degree. She may as well attend state college.

Yeah, well OP is better off with a basket weaving degree from Columbia than from Cal State. I don't think going to a less selective school will make it easier for OP to complete a STEM major -- it will be arguably harder to complete a CS degree from a state school given how much grade inflation Columbia has.

OP, I think you're destined to major in a useless liberal arts degree. In that case, you're WAY better off at Columbia.

not worth 80k in loans for a "useless liberal arts degree." Nope.

^^^ a.k.a., a pre-law degree.

Humanities majors at Columbia get great jobs after graduation if they put their minds to it -- MBB, Oliver Wyman, Bridgewater, etc. all take Columbia grads who have majored in "useless liberal arts" fields like English, History, Philosophy, and Poli Sci.

[Anonymous]

I haven't read through all the comments, but if I were OP I would NOT take time off from school, because it will feel much harder to go back at 24 or later to complete your degree. Unfortunately, attending college doesn't count to employers if you don't graduate, so just get it done. During my third year in college (not an ivy) I was completely overwhelmed as an architecture major, which in retrospect wasn't the best fit for me. I told my parents I wanted to drop out, and they encouraged me to finish my BArch degree. You know what? They were right. I'm so glad I listened to them, because that degree has opened so many doors for me even though I'm not working in the architecture field today. And yes, I would try to negotiate for more aid from your school so you can reduce the loan amount - it worked for me. Best of luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read through all the comments, but if I were OP I would NOT take time off from school, because it will feel much harder to go back at 24 or later to complete your degree. Unfortunately, attending college doesn't count to employers if you don't graduate, so just get it done. During my third year in college (not an ivy) I was completely overwhelmed as an architecture major, which in retrospect wasn't the best fit for me. I told my parents I wanted to drop out, and they encouraged me to finish my BArch degree. You know what? They were right. I'm so glad I listened to them, because that degree has opened so many doors for me even though I'm not working in the architecture field today. And yes, I would try to negotiate for more aid from your school so you can reduce the loan amount - it worked for me. Best of luck.

OP said that her parents already tried to negotiate with Columbia and it failed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read through all the comments, but if I were OP I would NOT take time off from school, because it will feel much harder to go back at 24 or later to complete your degree. Unfortunately, attending college doesn't count to employers if you don't graduate, so just get it done. During my third year in college (not an ivy) I was completely overwhelmed as an architecture major, which in retrospect wasn't the best fit for me. I told my parents I wanted to drop out, and they encouraged me to finish my BArch degree. You know what? They were right. I'm so glad I listened to them, because that degree has opened so many doors for me even though I'm not working in the architecture field today. And yes, I would try to negotiate for more aid from your school so you can reduce the loan amount - it worked for me. Best of luck.

OP said that her parents already tried to negotiate with Columbia and it failed.

Okay. If I were OP I would contact the school on my own to try to negotiate. But regardless, it doesn't change the advice that OP finish a degree - any degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - get mentally strong and then make the decision that is best for you. It will be fine.
Believe in yourself and focus on being happy.
Life is not linear for most people. Just because you had a big setback does not mean your life is over.
Things have a way of working out. Be optimistic and find supportive and kind friends

Things do NOT have a way of working out. If OP drops out of Columbia, the rest of her life will be a living hell. It will be awful beyond repair. Please do not spread BS like "it will all work out" when OP is about to make a life-threatening AWFUL decision.

This is so false it's laughable!!! There *are* colleges in the U.S. other than Columbia. Your notion that a humanities basket weaving degree from Columbia would make a huge difference in OP's future earnings is a joke. It's a bullsh-- degree. She may as well attend state college.

Yeah, well OP is better off with a basket weaving degree from Columbia than from Cal State. I don't think going to a less selective school will make it easier for OP to complete a STEM major -- it will be arguably harder to complete a CS degree from a state school given how much grade inflation Columbia has.

OP, I think you're destined to major in a useless liberal arts degree. In that case, you're WAY better off at Columbia.

not worth 80k in loans for a "useless liberal arts degree." Nope.

^^^ a.k.a., a pre-law degree.

Humanities majors at Columbia get great jobs after graduation if they put their minds to it -- MBB, Oliver Wyman, Bridgewater, etc. all take Columbia grads who have majored in "useless liberal arts" fields like English, History, Philosophy, and Poli Sci.

Yep, take basket weaving or sports and family science if you have to, just get the BA stamp.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - get mentally strong and then make the decision that is best for you. It will be fine.
Believe in yourself and focus on being happy.
Life is not linear for most people. Just because you had a big setback does not mean your life is over.
Things have a way of working out. Be optimistic and find supportive and kind friends

Things do NOT have a way of working out. If OP drops out of Columbia, the rest of her life will be a living hell. It will be awful beyond repair. Please do not spread BS like "it will all work out" when OP is about to make a life-threatening AWFUL decision.

This is so false it's laughable!!! There *are* colleges in the U.S. other than Columbia. Your notion that a humanities basket weaving degree from Columbia would make a huge difference in OP's future earnings is a joke. It's a bullsh-- degree. She may as well attend state college.

Yeah, well OP is better off with a basket weaving degree from Columbia than from Cal State. I don't think going to a less selective school will make it easier for OP to complete a STEM major -- it will be arguably harder to complete a CS degree from a state school given how much grade inflation Columbia has.

OP, I think you're destined to major in a useless liberal arts degree. In that case, you're WAY better off at Columbia.

not worth 80k in loans for a "useless liberal arts degree." Nope.

^^^ a.k.a., a pre-law degree.

Humanities majors at Columbia get great jobs after graduation if they put their minds to it -- MBB, Oliver Wyman, Bridgewater, etc. all take Columbia grads who have majored in "useless liberal arts" fields like English, History, Philosophy, and Poli Sci.

Yep, take basket weaving or sports and family science if you have to, just get the BA stamp.

I used to work for one of the firms listed and I actually think this is bad advice. These companies ask for your transcript, and if all of your classes are Basket Weaving 101, we would recognize that your coursework wasn't rigorous and promptly reject your application. Of course, this is for recruiting right out of undergrad (MBA recruiting is another story).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I am really worried about the impact that posting here will have on your mental health. And for what? You're not going to get clear advice here anyway.

As you see, people here are saying totally contradictory things and projecting themselves on you. You need real conversations and real support from real people.

I come from a very similar background as you and have had very similar experiences and struggles. Also worked as a college admissions consultant helping students get into top (and not-so-top) colleges. I've been poor and rich and seen it all.

I know the debt is not worth it. Don't let your parents' toxicity mess with your head. Don't let the idiots on this board mess with your head. Remember that everyone has a bias, but it's hard to fully see that bias when it's just a message on an anonymous board.

OP here. I was actually hoping to talk to a college admissions consultant, but I hesitated to reach out to the ones in my area since they're ridiculously expensive. I was wondering if you'd be willing to email me at [e-mail] -- I totally understand if you're hesitant to email some Internet rando and decide not to contact me. However, you seem like one of the (few) people on this board who can agree with me that $80k in debt is not worth it, and I was wondering if I could solicit your advice on a couple other things. No worries if you'd rather not contact me though.

Heads up, OP: no one wants to email someone as whiny as you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - get mentally strong and then make the decision that is best for you. It will be fine.
Believe in yourself and focus on being happy.
Life is not linear for most people. Just because you had a big setback does not mean your life is over.
Things have a way of working out. Be optimistic and find supportive and kind friends

Things do NOT have a way of working out. If OP drops out of Columbia, the rest of her life will be a living hell. It will be awful beyond repair. Please do not spread BS like "it will all work out" when OP is about to make a life-threatening AWFUL decision.

This is so false it's laughable!!! There *are* colleges in the U.S. other than Columbia. Your notion that a humanities basket weaving degree from Columbia would make a huge difference in OP's future earnings is a joke. It's a bullsh-- degree. She may as well attend state college.

Yeah, well OP is better off with a basket weaving degree from Columbia than from Cal State. I don't think going to a less selective school will make it easier for OP to complete a STEM major -- it will be arguably harder to complete a CS degree from a state school given how much grade inflation Columbia has.

OP, I think you're destined to major in a useless liberal arts degree. In that case, you're WAY better off at Columbia.

not worth 80k in loans for a "useless liberal arts degree." Nope.

^^^ a.k.a., a pre-law degree.

Humanities majors at Columbia get great jobs after graduation if they put their minds to it -- MBB, Oliver Wyman, Bridgewater, etc. all take Columbia grads who have majored in "useless liberal arts" fields like English, History, Philosophy, and Poli Sci.

Yep, take basket weaving or sports and family science if you have to, just get the BA stamp.

I used to work for one of the firms listed and I actually think this is bad advice. These companies ask for your transcript, and if all of your classes are Basket Weaving 101, we would recognize that your coursework wasn't rigorous and promptly reject your application. Of course, this is for recruiting right out of undergrad (MBA recruiting is another story).

Go over to back office, we don't ask for transcript. Bridgewater pays the 27 year old reporting guy/girl 135k.

[Anonymous]

My goodness there are crazy people on this thread!

OP, I hope you have the sense not to listen to anyone telling you that your life will be ruined. That kind of black and white thinking is idiotic.

On the other hand, a Columbia degree is your shortest line to a degree and there may be ways to make it more palatable (study year abroad, summer courses at another ivy, etc). Have you emailed your advisor about any of those options?

And why does this decision need to be made now? Can't you just kick the can down the road until you have worked out a definite path with your therapist? I think you need that. And I also think you need to realize you're not the average person. You are actually a very bright young woman with a bright future and you just aren't sure what direction to take now.

[Anonymous]

Op, just get the degree. Your job prospects as a college grad will be far better than as a college dropout.

Do you have any money/savings? You will be working to barely pay rent and food. There isn’t some well paying save the world job waiting for you.

[Anonymous]

OP: You need separation from your parents, not from Columbia University.

I have not read the entire thread, so I do not know whether you live on campus, on your own, or at home, but it is clear that you need to cease contact with your parents for the remainder of your time in college.

Anyone who states that a degree from Columbia University is not worth student loan debt of $80,000 is not dealing with real-world realities. While I hesitate to make such a broad statement, I think that in this situation it is warranted.

I would like to emphasize that you need temporary separation from your parents--not from Columbia University. You may be suffering from growing pains, the fear of facing the real world, or just a need for independence. Regardless, earning a degree from Columbia University is a worthwhile goal and will be viewed in the real world as an admirable and valuable accomplishment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP: You need separation from your parents, not from Columbia University.

I have not read the entire thread, so I do not know whether you live on campus, on your own, or at home, but it is clear that you need to cease contact with your parents for the remainder of your time in college.

Anyone who states that a degree from Columbia University is not worth student loan debt of $80,000 is not dealing with real-world realities. While I hesitate to make such a broad statement, I think that in this situation it is warranted.

I would like to emphasize that you need temporary separation from your parents--not from Columbia University. You may be suffering from growing pains, the fear of facing the real world, or just a need for independence. Regardless, earning a degree from Columbia University is a worthwhile goal and will be viewed in the real world as an admirable and valuable accomplishment.

OP here. I am currently not living with my parents, but I'm on their health insurance plan and they're planning on paying for (part) of my remaining three semesters at Columbia. If I cut off contact with my parents, I wouldn't be able to finish at Columbia at all -- my parents are planning on co-signing most of the $80k in loans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My goodness there are crazy people on this thread!

OP, I hope you have the sense not to listen to anyone telling you that your life will be ruined. That kind of black and white thinking is idiotic.

On the other hand, a Columbia degree is your shortest line to a degree and there may be ways to make it more palatable (study year abroad, summer courses at another ivy, etc). Have you emailed your advisor about any of those options?

And why does this decision need to be made now? Can't you just kick the can down the road until you have worked out a definite path with your therapist? I think you need that. And I also think you need to realize you're not the average person. You are actually a very bright young woman with a bright future and you just aren't sure what direction to take now.

OP here.

1. I've already kicked the can down the road; I took a leave of absence in January. And my therapist -- who, quite frankly, is a white woman out of touch with Asian culture and expectations (I couldn't find an Asian therapist who takes my insurance) -- isn't magically making plans up for me or "working out a definite path forward." Like most therapists, she simply gives me a cold pros/cons list of leaving Columbia and leaves the decision up to me. Therapists aren't supposed to make decisions for you or even give you advice about a decision. They just try to "empower you to make the best decision for you " (whatever the hell that means).

2. Unfortunately, because I have most of the Core left, I can't take summer classes at another Ivy or study abroad (also because I declared my major really late). I really wanted to study abroad, but unfortunately because of my late major declaration and the Core I can't.

3. I am absolutely average when it comes to intelligence, work ethic, ambition, and drive. The only reason I've gotten as far as I have now is because I had Asian immigrant tiger parents who screamed at me in high school for every A minus I got and monitored my online gradebook like a hawk. For my math, chemistry, and physics classes in high school, my dad would do every single assigned problem with me and basically became my personal tutor. No wonder I wasn't able to hack it on my own in Columbia STEM when the only reason why I got through AP Calc, Physics, and Chemistry in high school was because my dad gave me about ~20 hours of personal tutoring a week in high school (20 hours seems like a lot, but it's really not when you consider that I'm awful at STEM and was taking my high school's hardest STEM classes at a wealthy, competitive public school).

4. I do NOT have a bright future ahead. My future is filled with tons of student debt and a lifetime (or at least a decade's) worth of awful, soul-sucking corporate jobs that I'll inevitably hate so I can chip away at the principle of my student loans. My life will be MISERABLE for the next ten years (and most likely more), and frankly, I know that I'll be much better off getting murdered in Morningside Park than continuing at Columbia. Every day I wish I was never born.

[Anonymous]

OP, I lived a milder version of this 25 years ago, and I feel your despair intensely. Your parents have created this terrible all-or-nothing mentality in you. The world is so big and broad — there are thousands of jobs and futures for you outside of NYC, outside of banking and consulting. Your parents are simply wrong about this because they are new to America and don’t know any better. They only know about a handful of jobs that their old lady friends know about.

Don’t break ties with them, but figure out a way to believe in your heart that they are wrong. Because they are wrong. There are SO many jobs in this country.

Get a better therapist, get an apartment way off campus, treat school like a job and just finish those few semesters, majoring in anything. Then get yourself free of these ignorant parents. Continue to see them on holidays and don’t be cruel to them, but break free.